PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Animations are quite important, no doubt. For me though I'd much rather have the CPU contextual awareness looked at. If this was nailed then it would go almost all the way there to stopping the end to end fest that develops when the CPU's first intention is to move forward at sprint pace with the ball. If the CPU passed the ball about contextually, safe players played safe if there was danger the game would take on a whole new level.

This needs to be done with stamina fixed, totally, so that the human player couldn't pressure whore throughout against the CPU or against other fellow players. Similarly, the CPU's stamina needs to be adjusted. The incentive also needs to be on the player controlling the action. You shouldn't have an advantage by letting the CPU do the work for you by de-selecting your players closest to the opposition ball carrier.

And finally. Injuries, player form, stuff like this needs to 100% fixed. Realistic injuries for you and the CPU and realistic time periods off. Player form is a joke. And daytime matches as the default with night games being the odd game. I've never understood KONAMI's decision to make ML almost exclusively night games when the day games look 100 times better.
 
There is so much that needs to be improved for the next versions, most of all the AI:

1. Singleplayer is still imho the most important modus of PES and it needs a much better and more varied, more intelligent AI. Patch 1.03 has improved it a bit but still there's so much room for improvement.

2. A realtime twotiered stamina-fatigue system that correctly tracks and applies on every player individually being influenced by the stats and influencing not only running-capabilities but also concentration (regarding aiming passes, crosses and shots).

3. Vision-stats need to be introduced. Currently we can make perfect passes in all directions regardless of the orientation of the player, even to the back. But there should be a variance of error when making passes into areas the controlled player can't possibly have a visual information from and therefore not knowing where exactly the other player is, even if we as humans can see the whole pitch. And there should be differences in that aspect as in real life there are players with better and worse vision and it is also influenced by the pressure on the player. Pressure reduces vision and concentration and again on that aspect there are players that handle that pressure better mentally as others...

4. Control: Most of the time we aren't really in control of the players on the screen. Automatic movements and reactions and rails reduce our influence. Especially off the ball. Most of the time I try to work against the automated movement instead of really controlling what happens when off the ball.
Sure automatic initial movements are necessary, otherwise it would be too late, but once the cursor is on the player we should have more influence about what and how he does it. More control over the micromovements of the player.
Same goes for the rails: It should be possible to leave these rails without pressing for supercancel and the transition from the rails to our control should be smooth.
Of course I don't want 100%-control, stats of the players should differentiate how much control is possible since in real life players have different skills regarding movement and ballcontrol...

5. Visual aspects: Nice looking day- and nightgames, dynamic weather, third kits, dirty kits, flags being waved in the audience...

I look forward to see what PES 2014 can improve this year.
 
EDGE subscribers got their issues this morning. There’s a few details about the article coming out already...

- The new engine is based on the Fox Engine, but after that the engine is referred to as ‘new engine’.

- The new physics engine uses something called ‘Barycentre physics’, this basically means that different body parts have different weights. So collisions are similar to FIFA, except the impact strength will depend on which part of the body is hit.

- The graphics engine aims to be photorealistic, there’s a close up image of a Japanese player’s face showing detailed skin pores and individual eyebrows. Shirts are separate from the player models, they hang from the players and flow, they also get pulled when jostling.

- The ball control radius in 3x bigger than the current gen allowing for more dynamic off-ball tussles while player’s legs try to get control of the ball

- You can set player’s ‘zones’ meaning you can have an individual player only be allowed to move in a small area of the pitch when defending.

These aren't all the points mentioned in the article by the way, pretty much all my source could be bothered to send me at this time.
 
A poster over on WENB has posted this...

EDGE subscribers got their issues this morning. There’s a few details about the article coming out already...

- The new engine is based on the Fox Engine, but after that the engine is referred to as ‘new engine’.

- The new physics engine uses something called ‘Barycentre physics’, this basically means that different body parts have different weights. So collisions are similar to FIFA, except the impact strength will depend on which part of the body is hit.

- The graphics engine aims to be photorealistic, there’s a close up image of a Japanese player’s face showing detailed skin pores and individual eyebrows. Shirts are separate from the player models, they hang from the players and flow, they also get pulled when jostling.

- The ball control radius in 3x bigger than the current gen allowing for more dynamic off-ball tussles while player’s legs try to get control of the ball

- You can set player’s ‘zones’ meaning you can have an individual player only be allowed to move in a small area of the pitch when defending.
Click to expand...

Erm, it was the poster above me :D
 
henrys hand said:
There is so much that needs to be improved for the next versions, most of all the AI:

1. Singleplayer is still imho the most important modus of PES and it needs a much better and more varied, more intelligent AI. Patch 1.03 has improved it a bit but still there's so much room for improvement.

2. A realtime twotiered stamina-fatigue system that correctly tracks and applies on every player individually being influenced by the stats and influencing not only running-capabilities but also concentration (regarding aiming passes, crosses and shots).

3. Vision-stats need to be introduced. Currently we can make perfect passes in all directions regardless of the orientation of the player, even to the back. But there should be a variance of error when making passes into areas the controlled player can't possibly have a visual information from and therefore not knowing where exactly the other player is, even if we as humans can see the whole pitch. And there should be differences in that aspect as in real life there are players with better and worse vision and it is also influenced by the pressure on the player. Pressure reduces vision and concentration and again on that aspect there are players that handle that pressure better mentally as others...

4. Control: Most of the time we aren't really in control of the players on the screen. Automatic movements and reactions and rails reduce our influence. Especially off the ball. Most of the time I try to work against the automated movement instead of really controlling what happens when off the ball.
Sure automatic initial movements are necessary, otherwise it would be too late, but once the cursor is on the player we should have more influence about what and how he does it. More control over the micromovements of the player.
Same goes for the rails: It should be possible to leave these rails without pressing for supercancel and the transition from the rails to our control should be smooth.
Of course I don't want 100%-control, stats of the players should differentiate how much control is possible since in real life players have different skills regarding movement and ballcontrol...

5. Visual aspects: Nice looking day- and nightgames, dynamic weather, third kits, dirty kits, flags being waved in the audience...

I look forward to see what PES 2014 can improve this year.
Click to expand...

Agree with all of that. Fox engine shenanigans and shameless PR aside, along with the points you made, I hope PES 14 brings new convincing animations, ball physics, expanded editing mode and a realistic league structure/ML overhaul. It should also be fun to play and look-n-feel nothing like PES 2008-13, really.
 
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Ipswich69 said:
Agree with all of that. Fox engine shenanigans and shameless PR aside, along with the points you made, I hope PES 14 brings new convincing animations, ball physics, expanded editing mode and a realistic league structure/ML overhaul. It should also be fun to play and look-n-feel nothing like PES 2008-13, really.
Click to expand...

What "shameless PR" are you talking about? A picture was posted on twitter and Edge announced the feature. They are doing nothing that is any different from what any other games publisher out there would do; same with Edge's publishing house.

I have no idea why you and some others feel so insulted by these things that you need to go identifying it as "shameless PR".

To most people it is just PR/marketing/promotion of an up and coming product, identify as merely that and know that while getting information is welcome it doesn't change the fact it is all going to come down to personal experience of said product. If they want to speak about what they have read/saw it hardly means they are buying into it wholeheartedly or are showing weakness. It's not criminal to look forward to something, just like it isn't criminal to try and get people interested in a product.
 
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Remember how FIFA 07 was build from scratch using a new engine? Seems like it's Konami's turn now...

Pillars of the new PES engine.

1. Barycentre Physics and Ball control

The new engine allows for a larger separation between player and ball - three time the radius of PES 2013, where tight 'confrontation' zones are used to make tackling easier. A striker will be able to throw his body weight in one direction and use his opposing foot to push the ball in the other way, leaving defenders off balance and buying space for a pass or shot. Players have specific centres of balance, calculated by locating their centre of gravity, or barycentre. You'll be able to control your player's weight shifts at all times and use practice touches to push the ball away from your feet. We see a wireframe demo with more natural animations and fluid transitions than FIFA 13. You control the player and the physics drives the animation, not vice versa. It's hard to tell how this will transform the 'feel' of play, rather than just being admirable behind the scenes calculations, but there appears to be scope for a radical new control scheme - think of how Skate's right-stick motions mimicked real-life movements by exploiting dynamic physics, and how they compared to the digital button taps of Tony Hawks Pro Skater. This could be a revelation in football game control.

2. Contact and Physicality

Konami has pinpointed this as a weakness in previous games, but now players can jostle for space - even without the ball present - for headers at corners, or to dominate a smaller opponent. You'll be able to tug shirts (cloth is now separate from the player's body and stretches) as well as elbow for room on the touchline. It works in tandem with the physics and precision control. Agile players can unbalance defenders with dropped shoulders or ball skills, and push the ball further ahead to exploit their acceleration. "Previously, body feints were more aesthetic," admits Masuda. "Now they're a key tactic."

3. Squad Emulator

Formations remain essential for success, but now you can set 'zones of play' so your key players focus on certain tactics in mission-critical areas. For example, you can set your front line to focus on possession and probing for gaps in from of a deep-lying defence. In theory, you'll be able to recognise your favourite teams pattern of play within a few minutes. The emphasis on defending and shape should allow weaker teams to create effective strategies, such as when Celtic beat Barcelona in the Champions League by defending deep, buoyed up by the home crowd.
 
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Fox Engine isn't some made up marketing term, it's an actual engine built from scratch by Kojima's guys. It's not something you can "attach" to anything you had done previously, since it's an entirelly different developing enviroment.

Fox Engine is very good and we've seen enough proof of that. I guess it's all going to be down to how much of it Konami team are going to use, and how much of it will be done from scratch by Masuda & Co.

Although tbh, I don't think the engine will be that much different, from a technical standpoint. They'll be changing a lot of variables so it fits the football genre, and gameplay mechanics will indeed have to be done from scratch, but besides that, I think they just don't want people to think they're somehow taking advantage of someone else's work (which is most likely a bit of an insult in the Japanese culture) and want as much distance as possible from Kojima's floor.
 
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curdstar said:
What "shameless PR" are you talking about? A picture was posted on twitter and Edge announced the feature. They are doing nothing that is any different from what any other games publisher out there would do; same with Edge's publishing house.

I have no idea why you and some others feel so insulted by these things that you need to go identifying it as "shameless PR".

To most people it is just PR/marketing/promotion of an up and coming product, identify as merely that and know that while getting information is welcome it doesn't change the fact it is all going to come down to personal experience of said product. If they want to speak about what they have read/saw it hardly means they are buying into it wholeheartedly or are showing weakness. It's not criminal to look forward to something, just like it isn't criminal to try and get people interested in a product.
Click to expand...

Still riding that tall horse, I see. It's not criminal to express an opinion about Konami and its football game. Not sure why "you" take it all so personally all the time. Chill out fella and stop acting like less than glowing comments towards PES is an attack on you.
 
Nick1984 said:
Remember how FIFA 07 was build from scratch using a new engine? Seems like it's Konami's turn now...

Pillars of the new PES engine.

1. Barycentre Physics and Ball control

The new engine allows for a larger separation between player and ball - three time the radius of PES 2013, where tight 'confrontation' zones are used to make tackling easier. A striker will be able to throw his body weight in one direction and use his opposing foot to push the ball in the other way, leaving defenders off balance and buying space for a pass or shot. Players have specific centres of balance, calculated by locating their centre of gravity, or barycentre. You'll be able to control your player's weight shifts at all times and use practice touches to push the ball away from your feet. We see a wireframe demo with more natural animations and fluid transitions than FIFA 13. You control the player and the physics drives the animation, not vice versa. It's hard to tell how this will transform the 'feel' of play, rather than just being admirable behind the scenes calculations, but there appears to be scope for a radical new control scheme - think of how Skate's right-stick motions mimicked real-life movements by exploiting dynamic physics, and how they compared to the digital button taps of Tony Hawks Pro Skater. This could be a revelation in football game control.

2. Contact and Physicality

Agile players can unbalance defenders with dropped shoulders or ball skills, and push the ball further ahead to exploit their acceleration. "Previously, body feints were more aesthetic," admits Masuda. "Now they're a key tactic."
Click to expand...

That in bold sounds pretty damned good, if it were to be realised that way, as it could mean far more natural or contextual "flair" when dribbling. Will be intersting to see how stats would impact on something like this too, as if the engine is pretty powerful and does indeed prove to have animation transition and fluidity that betters FIFA13, but with that right sensation of weight, it could have a massive influence on player individuality.
 
all i am bothered about,is that they fix the friggin basics.
1 player switching
2 improved ai of team mates -better response to loose balls
3 gks especially 1v1s and when they throw the ball out
4 get rid of invisible walls - whats that all about
5 give us full control of players you are supposed to control
6 and tone down the goddam scripting.

why o why are we having scripted matches online its a complete joke!
knowing konami none of the above will be fixed they have been in all next gen versions.
ps bring back league mode.
 
Ipswich69 said:
Still riding that tall horse, I see. It's not criminal to express an opinion about Konami and its football game. Not sure why "you" take it all so personally all the time. Chill out fella and stop acting like less than glowing comments towards PES is an attack on you.
Click to expand...

It's a giraffe now, btw.

I'm not taking it personally at all and was merely making an observation. You're right, there is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion, just like there is nothing wrong with an opinion being questioned on a discussion forum be that yours or mine.

We all want the same thing (a truly unifying and wonderful PES) so if some info (very little info admittedly) does surface I see it less as PR and more that things are moving along, ever so slightly, regards discussion of the next PES.

No offence intended and none taken.
 
Interesting...

Barycentre Physics:

barycentre (plural barycentres)
(mathematics, physics, astronomy) The point at the centre of a system; an average point, weighted according to mass or other attribute. The term is usually used in astronomy for the centre of mass about which a system rotates, for example, the moon and the earth rotate about a common point within the earth but not near the centre. Jupiter and the Sun rotate about a common point just outside the surface of the Sun.
 
I'm guessing, reeeeaaaalllly guessing, that it has something to do with the shift of centre of gravity?

Orbit3.gif


Center of mass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Say a player is running with the ball and a defender clips his right trailing foot (the small ball in the diagram) sending it to back to the left of his body. The weight of the foot itself isn't what could send him falling but the force in which the trailing foot is struck, thus if it is sent swinging back behind the left side of his body with enough force the momentum causes the centre of gravity thus maybe have him fall? Christ knows...or maybe he doesn't either.
 
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Nick1984 said:
Remember how FIFA 07 was build from scratch using a new engine? Seems like it's Konami's turn now...

Pillars of the new PES engine.

1. Barycentre Physics and Ball control

The new engine allows for a larger separation between player and ball - three time the radius of PES 2013, where tight 'confrontation' zones are used to make tackling easier. A striker will be able to throw his body weight in one direction and use his opposing foot to push the ball in the other way, leaving defenders off balance and buying space for a pass or shot. Players have specific centres of balance, calculated by locating their centre of gravity, or barycentre. You'll be able to control your player's weight shifts at all times and use practice touches to push the ball away from your feet.
Click to expand...

I've been waiting for a feature like this to pop up in a football game forever. Hopefully it's as good as it sounds.
 
Sounds promising.

Always a worry with a new engine that they could move away from the fundamentals that make PES what it is, namely the sense of momentum vs. FIFA's floaty feel. Good to see thats still at the forefront ahead simply surface animations that don't really contribute to much outside of aesthetic.

Do EA have any innovations planned for next year? FIFA 09 was quite a revolution when it was released, and really turned the tide away from Konami. Wonder if they'll attempt a similar upheavel, or whether they'll simply tweak the formula now they're established as the most popular football series.
 
Nick1984 said:
3. Squad Emulator

Formations remain essential for success, but now you can set 'zones of play' so your key players focus on certain tactics in mission-critical areas. For example, you can set your front line to focus on possession and probing for gaps in from of a deep-lying defence. In theory, you'll be able to recognise your favourite teams pattern of play within a few minutes. The emphasis on defending and shape should allow weaker teams to create effective strategies, such as when Celtic beat Barcelona in the Champions League by defending deep, buoyed up by the home crowd.
Click to expand...

for the love of god do more of this

tactics

SPECIFIC tactics

its so simple but is such a massive gap in football games

i dont care about how kagawas eyebrows gleem in the night light

just give us a full tactics board editor so teams can set up exactly like you want - although dependent on individual ability, of course
 
It does indeed sound promising.

The early indication is that Konami are looking to use this new engine to genuinely take football games to the next level. While FIFA has raised the bar for animations and fluidity, it hasn't exactly brought about any gameplay innovations. Players still lack individuality and teams play in a one-dimensional style.

Konami still seem to know their audience and why they play PES, so the emphasis on gameplay rather than aesthetics is quite encouraging.
 
:))

Aah! The PES Thread, full of optimism, cautious excitement and potential. I'll look to sift through the BS PR and the infomercial yelling and see what I get.

BTW is this going to be a PS3 or PS4 game? and hopefully if its PS4 we don't get lumped with the PS3 Version on PC.
 
YoungGun_UK said:
:))

BTW is this going to be a PS3 or PS4 game? and hopefully if its PS4 we don't get lumped with the PS3 Version on PC.
Click to expand...

99% a PS3 game. The PS4 version will be made on PES 2015.


BTW, here's my desired key features for PES 2014:

- Psychological Arrow - Along with the physical one, determines the player's condition for a match. While the physical arrow remains static during a game, the psychological one is dynamic according to the player's recent actions. The player's mental strength is important to determine how this arrow affects him.

i.e. Man Utd is winning 3-0, but Robin van Persie didn't scored since one month ago, so he is not happy, and is performing poorly due to the nerves and his desire to score again. Due to his low psych. arrow, his stats are decreased to reflect this situation in the game.

- Old Good Strategy Menu - Who came with the idea of a menu clearly designed for mouse, which can't be used with a mouse? You know the current one is weird when you pick up PES 3-6 and these games show an intuitive interface, showing more essential elements at the same time, and after all, easier for the gamers to prepare their tactics.

- Team ID - Unfortunately they ran out of time this year to include it, so next game must show a massive improvement on how both teams behave on the pitch.

- Realistic Atmosphere - Much better FX sounds, including different "goal" celebrations according to the region, much better and varied chants and more detailed crowd, with flags, scarves and flares during i.e. South-American games. Better commentaries with more passion as well. Regarding graphics, I'd love for a more vivid color palette and greener turfs.

- Become a Legend Overhaul - Lots of new features which help the gamers to feel they're living a footballer's career. i.e. Transfer requests, conflicts with other players, press conferences or your team/others fans reputation (applause/boo).

- World Tour Mode Return - Already present on PES 2008's PS2 version, IIRC, brings lots of fun and varied situations.

- UI/UX Aesthetics Overhaul - All new menus, typography and lots of imagery which remind us this is a football game, not a hexagonal/futuristic one. Also a return of the grid-style team selection menu, much faster than the current one.

That's all for now. What do you think about?
 
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NikoLiberty4 said:
99% a PS3 game. The PS4 version will be made on PES 2015.


BTW, here's my desired key features for PES 2014:

- Psychological Arrow - Along with the physical one, determines the player's condition for a match. While the physical arrow remains static during a game, the psychological one is dynamic according to the player's recent actions. The player's mental strength is important to determine how this arrow affects him.

i.e. Man Utd is winning 3-0, but Robin van Persie didn't scored since one month ago, so he is not happy, and is performing poorly due to the nerves and his desire to score again. Due to his low psych. arrow, his stats are decreased to reflect this situation in the game.

- Old Good Strategy Menu - Who came with the idea of a menu clearly designed for mouse, which can't be used with a mouse? You know the current one is weird when you pick up PES 3-6 and these games show an intuitive interface, showing more essential elements at the same time, and after all, easier for the gamers to prepare their tactics.

- Team ID - Unfortunately they ran out of time this year to include it, so next game must show a massive improvement on how both teams behave on the pitch.

- Realistic Atmosphere - Much better FX sounds, including different "goal" celebrations according to the region, much better and varied chants and more detailed crowd, with flags, scarves and flares during i.e. South-American games. Better commentaries with more passion as well. Regarding graphics, I'd love for a more vivid color palette and greener turfs.

- Become a Legend Overhaul - Lots of new features which help the gamers to feel they're living a footballer's career. i.e. Transfer requests, conflicts with other players, press conferences or your team/others fans reputation (applause/boo).

- World Tour Mode Return - Already present on PES 2008's PS2 version, IIRC, brings lots of fun and varied situations.

- UI/UX Aesthetics Overhaul - All new menus, typography and lots of imagery which remind us this is a football game, not a hexagonal/futuristic one. Also a return of the grid-style team selection menu, much faster than the current one.

That's all for now. What do you think about?
Click to expand...
I think , the game will be for both platforms . Like AC Black flag, watch dogs,FIFA, Destiny and more.
But that info about PES 2014 , is this your wish ? Where did you know that ?
 
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I am very confused with the realese dates.
Is it safe to wait Pes 2014 for PS3 to be released in usual October time in 2013?
Or should we wait the release for both platforms (PS3 and PS4) in 2014?
 
I think they should bring current gen forward to august and then release next gen in Jan-feb 2014. Next Gen will be November, most likely, And they will hardly have a launch game by then. That's the dream scenario. Boring scenario is Current Gen October, next gen later half of next year.

I have a feeling the two consoles will both go for a universal launch this time (PS3 usually takes one region at a time). But I'm just throwing ideas around.
 
MadbaLL said:
what amazes me is that they still build pes on windows xp :)
Click to expand...

That's... Weird.. But maybe makes some kind of sense if you're into programming, building games and stuff... Shouldn't they be limited with the hardware in some kind of way?
 
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