PES 2013 Discussion Thread

lons_pl said:
Agreed.

Pes 6 have better running animations

Pes 6 have better keepers animations :SHOCK:

Pes 6 have better player contorols

Pes 6 have better shooting

Pes 6 have better feeling

Thats all. How it's possible? I don't know....
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But Pes 2013 is a better simulation, much less arcade than pes 6
 
It's depend what you mean simulation. Agree Pes 6 is more arcade than Pes 2013 but is required from you much more skill without scripting. I have no doubt that Pes 6 is better game than Pes 2013. Two things are better in Pes 2013, it's pace an A.I. That's all.
 
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lons_pl said:
It's depend what you mean simulation. Agree Pes 6 is more arcade than Pes 2013 but is required from you much more skill without scripting. I have no doubt that Pes 6 is better game than Pes 2013. Two things are better in Pes 2013, it's pace an A.I. That's all.
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kind of, but that arcadey feel/movement at time's i can't really go back and play anymore, it will be remember as a brilliant game but with age, cracks appear and it happens with every game. thing is, pes 6 never had gameplay patches so when it was released, it was finished product, games these days are never fully finished, and they get patched for better or for worse and in pes 2013 case, for worse in certain areas
 
lons_pl said:
It's depend what you mean simulation. Agree Pes 6 is more arcade than Pes 2013 but is required from you much more skill without scripting. I have no doubt that Pes 6 is better game than Pes 2013. Two things are better in Pes 2013, it's pace an A.I. That's all.
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And passing freedom.
AI and pace of the game are two very important part of the game
I prefer the game pace to be much slower than it was in pes 6, now we have more time to decide what to do while in ball possession.
 
I tried last night with three friends, right after kickoff the game froze 3 times in a row and we kept changing owners, unexpected error and dumps us back into the room.

Fcukin Konami :(
 
Football games are not timeless, they age - they visibly look older and the simplicity/lack of depth in the controls becomes apparent.

It's not like Tetris - a concept that needs only very simple control and artwork to funtion perfectly, so cannot age a great deal.

To me trying to play PES3-6 now is like trying to play Wolfenstein 3D after Battlefield 3.
 
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lons_pl said:
You are wrong.
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Strong words.

lons_pl said:
1.First of all difference between Pes 6 and Pes 2013 it's not in the same level like between Wolfenstein and Battlefield 3.
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You have a point, but I disagree.

To make a simple gameplay comparison:

Wolfenstein - You can't aim up or down, only left or right.
PES3-6 - You can only run in 8 directions (sprint in 16 if you count the in-between touches), completely assisted passing.

Battlefield 3 - Full aiming within an entire 3D environment.
PES 2013 - 360 degree movement with 360 degree manual passing and shooting.

See my point? Gameplay ages, what was acceptable then is not acceptable now.
The fundamental gameplay mechanics of PES3-6 are outdated and are not sufficient today.

lons_pl said:
2. You make a misteke to compere old Pes 6 to Pes 2013 in this time. It's important how Pes 6 looked 6 years ago and how look Pes 2013 in this moment. Do You know what i mean? Pes 6 at the time of release was much, much better than Pes 2013 time of release 2 months ago.
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I never disputed this or even brought it up, but it's not a "mistake" to compare them when there are people out there who actually think PES6 competes with 2013.

Obviously the amount things impress you depends upon the time period they are released.
e.g. A high-end gaming PC from 2003 would have had incredibly impressive graphics for the time but if you directly compare it in the present to a mid-range non-impressive home PC from 2012, the new one will outperform it completely.

Not as impressive or revolutionary in the present moment, but still superior directly.
 
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It is impossible for something set in a 3D environment with physics and humanlike AI (especially) to be a "Tetris" type timeless game.

Tetris is perfect for it's purpose, it could not be any better AT ALL. You have 7 commands at your disposal to perform a very simple task.

Tetris, Minesweeper, Chess, Mahjong, Card games etc. are timeless. Football games, shooters, racing games etc. are not!

I feel like responding to you is pointless though if you're going to come up with stuff like "useless 360 dribbling" and "some "manual" passing with are don't work so well..."
You can't seriously tell me that any form of 8-directional dribbling is better than what either FIFA 13 or PES 13 have to offer, and the manual passing of PES 2013 and FIFA 13 does work, I don't see how you could say otherwise - you aim the stick, press pass, and the ball goes where you aimed. That's manual passing.
 
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I'm not trolling.

I believe in evidentialism - if you're going to make a statement, you need to back it up with reasoning and evidence (or at least be able to on request), something you (and anyone else who makes the argument for PES6) fail to do.

Non-specific terms such as "useless" and saying something "doesn't work" are meaningless unless you elaborate and actually explain why you've made that statement and what it means.

If anyone can explain to me how the gameplay of PES6 is in the same league as 2013 (or even 2011) then I'm all ears, I'm actually intrigued.
 
AntrAcsA said:
Oh :D i get it now, you trolling us :D gg . Now all this sh*ts make sens ;)
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No, he's not trolling.

PES 2013 indeed has the much better passing-possibilities thanks to manual passing than what was possible with PES 3-6, same goes for the 360-degree-dribbling.

Still I can understand why people are still playing PES 6: Even though it isn't as simulation-like as PES 2013, since it is too fast, too high pressure and the pitch is too small... the feeling is better, thanks to better animation-transitions.

The players feel more alive and flexible in PES 6 and way more aware/reactive. You feel like you are really in control of every little movement of the player. In PES 2013 the control of the player isn't as precise, and playerswitching is worse..
 
No doubt about it in my opinion, current-gen PES, with PES2013 being the best, still lacks that precision which was present in PES' 3 through 6 at least.

Maybe it is the 360 dribbling, maybe it is the omission of a distinct sound every time a player connects with the ball that gave you a sense of rhythm to your play, but something about footy games in general these days lacks that tactile feel in control that "glory days" PES had. I don't want them to completely abandon what they are trying to do with these games nowadays, but I wouldn't mind some of that gamey-ness back in all honesty. Maybe it is the gamey-ness that is missing; that almost street fighter-esque logic that drove the older games. I dunno, footy games since the introduction of some things - 360 dribbling especially - feel a bit clumsier than they used to. I have still liked recent PES' and to some degree FIFA's but I do find it to be more than coincidence that for me anyway the best footy game of this generation - the one that maintained my interest the longest at least - was one that wasn't blessed with 360 dribbling : FIFA09.

I guess what I am saying is that for as much as I admire the ambition shown by both developers, and fans it has to be said, that they/we are forgetting somewhat that these are and always will be simply videogames, and that some artistic licence or ''stylisation'' is probably always going to be a necessity.

If someone were to ask me if I wanted a footy videogame to have eight way movement on the ball but superb AI and tactical depth over 360 dribbling/movement, uber-physics and merely passable AI than I would say yes as things stand currently. Not that I would settle for that for all my days that I have an interest, but if these other advancements are to come in to play than I want them to be as robust as the older systems and mechanics that were at play before; I don't think either developer has achieved that....yet.
 
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Pes 6 for what it was when comparing to pes 2013 u can't compare when u deal with players that are hard on the rails and also high speed ping pong 1 touch. I don't consider pes 6 gameplay realistic to be honest when compared to now and I admit pes 2013 is still broken but if u had both games side by side id pick pes 2013 that's my opinion anyways
 
I'm going to go to bed now too, but tomorrow when I'm more awake I will come back and read the points that have been made here.

You seem to make some good points but I'm too tired to read properly right now so I won#t respond with half a brain :P.

But seriously, thanks for taking the time, I've seen people sing the praises of old-gen PES compared to the latest editions but never really explain themselves.
 
OMG are we still on the PES 6 cock sucking trip. The game was the demise of PES series into an arcade mess.

It was however a much more polished game. Most of the game modes were established and the game in general had less bugs. Konami were not under pressure to innovate as the series was criically acclimed and they were riding the crest of a wave.

The engine was optimized on the PS2 and its functioned well.

The Next generation hey got out of the blocks late and have as a result had to play cach up. The current generation consoles and HD in general hide nothing and with the amount of detail required and an old engine they have had to work extra hard to get it to improve and losing the critics they have added pressure of getting shit right.

Having said that they managed to ge some respect back since PES2010 but the damage has been done and people refuse to see what they have done focussing a lot more on the elements that are not fixed. He lack of polish points to this. Little glitches and things like that are as a result of this tail chasing as well. For them to catch up properly they would need 2 years of development to iron out and optimize PES in its entirety and tha is NEVER gonna happen they will fall off the map and FIFA would well and truly take over.

Not defending them but that is how it has been. I am happy/relieved that they have started working on the next engine and that it should keep them covered for the introductiom of the PS4 and next Xbox.

It still plays a much much better game of football pity that they have this arcadey settings in place I am sure to appease the PES6 fans. NBA2k13 for example doesn't try to dumb the game down o accomodate for the learning curve or make it more pick up and play.
 
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I'd like to say some words about 1.03 version. Yes, it's to be optimized and there is a work for patchmakers, but that is the best thing I've got since PES5/WE9LE. I am fascinated! I've got the truly British football gameplay. The gameplay of fighting but intellect. Goalkeepers are much more better, indeed. Defenders are to be work on but not so bad, as well as midfields. In attack I finally saw good off-box strikes. Now, we have more midfield fight. So, it's definitely, the big step to football reality. Bravo, KONAMI!
 
I have to slightly take issue with this PES6 =arcade and PES2013=simulation argument guys.

My modded PES6 PC version is by far slower than my PES2013 version on 0 gamespeed. In fact when I switched back to 2013 only a couple of days ago, I was absolutely amazed how everything felt faster. Player movements, sprinting, passing, shooting etc etc.

Now I've been playing 2013 a lot on Long ball cam so this may have had something to do with it.

Here's my two cents on the matter.

Out of the two games (at least on my PC) I would probably have to say that PES6 is the better simulation of football BECAUSE of its restrictions.

The introduction of 360 dribbling has basically opened the game up in that every individual, including so called clumsier players like Coates and Carragher for example, still feel too responsive, too light. In fact I would argue that true 360 movement should only really be felt with players like Ronaldo, Messi, Ribbery, Bale etc, (and even then I would argue that even these players, human beings, haven't really got 360 degree movement in real life) and that's because no human being whilst moving with the ball can adjust their body with such precision and versatility that 360 dribbling offers.

Playing 2013 every player feels like they can do move omni-directions, it's too responsive. Combined with the pass speed being uber fast and what you have is a game that relies on pace, pace, pace, in every department. Fast sprints (from nowhere because acceleration is all but gone), no stamina system, uber passing, uber through balls. Add to this that player support seems to have gone through the roof on 2013 in that every player to a man is just running somewhere, supporting, endlessly from end to end, combined with the CPU directness and sometimes it can look a fast mess.

Now on my PES6; pass speed is slower for a start which means it gives both the CPU AI and human AI more time to get into their defensive shape. Players aren't omni-directional so you can't really rely on sprint whoring all the time, you just haven't got the responsiveness to sprint constantly. And also, the CPU AI positionally seems better and so do your players against the counter, where there's no mass of midfield space to exploit, there seems more readier barriers to just going forward and attacking.

I was amazed when I initially switched from 2013 to 6 how I had become programmed to go forward with every touch with every player.

Now, if 2013 had combated the 'freedom' with regards to player movement and uber passing with better defensive positioning and making dribbling ten times harder with lots of control loss when top speed (or through acceleration) had been reached, the game would be more balanced.

ALSO - and this is a very important point. Even now, the CPU can only hold possession for a minimal amount of time before it hands it back over, in PES6 yesterday Man Utd kept the ball against me for, no kidding, around 1 minute of earth time....this is unheard of in current gen. They just pressed and patiently passed the ball around.

Another thing as has been touched on here, in old PES it paid for you to control the nearest player, the player had the control. In 2013 it pays for you to select your man block the CPU path, then switch to somebody else to track another run, which I've had to learn and do because of scripting and CPU cheap through balls.

PES 2011 was dissed....and in some areas quite rightly so. But the feeling of player restriction for players that weren't technical was palpable. Forlan felt like Forlan because he was faster and lighter and more responsive and Carragher, well you just couldn't run or anything with him.

My final point would be general aesthetics. You know, even now with current gen old PES just feels better and looks better, The stadiums, the pitches, the colours, the atmosphere, and I was almost drooling over the keeper animations yesterday. One save De Gea made, my God, it looked perfect.

Where 6 can fall down, because of the lack of tightness and manoeuvrability, is in the final third in and around the penalty box. Sometimes the 8 directions can suddenly feel like the games downfall.

BUT - overall, I'd have to say that a PES 6 with greater flexibility in dribbling control would be awesome.
 
Some of you let nostalgia cloud your judgement.

The old Pes games feel like crap to play now.

They are too fast and limited.
 
I tried PES 6 a while ago for the first time in years. It felt old, outdated and had no foot in realism of any description. This romanticised sense that it was a kind of 'thinking football fans' game is nonsense.

I got the ball with Ibrahimovic and managed to easily sprint in a perfectly straight line for over three quarters the length of the pitch. I remembered how you could look for a pass on the edge of the box by strafing up and down and repeatedly turning. The ball was on rails and was sucked towards a player. Every player had perfect, instant control. The game was played at about 200mph. Passing was totally automatic. Top players could score from within their own half.

Rob is right. PES6 is to PES2013 what Wolfenstein or Doom is to Battlefield 3. Just because some people still enjoy PES 6 doesn't mean it's a better game. Some people still enjoy playing the original Doom over Battlefield 3, entirely their prerogative but in no way can it be called the better game.

The original PES 6 on PS2 was an amazing game at the time but has aged badly. I still can't believe his discussion is still going on to be honest.
 
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ccshopland said:
I have to slightly take issue with this PES6 =arcade and PES2013=simulation argument guys.

My modded PES6 PC version is by far slower than my PES2013 version on 0 gamespeed
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Isn't that because it's modded though? I put PES 6 into my old PS2 and it was lightning fast. Passes flew around like the game was on fast forward, top players could just get their head down and sprint faster than Usain Bolt without being tackled over and over again.
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
Isn't that because it's modded though? I put PES 6 into my old PS2 and it was lightning fast. Passes flew around like the game was on fast forward, top players could just get their head down and sprint faster than Usain Bolt without being tackled over and over again.
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Yes exactly, PES6 on PS2 I would agree is fast. But a modded PES6 PC erases the speed element, makes AI defence smarter and stops the cheap cut back goals. I can't sprint anywhere on my version apart from down the flank if I beat my man on the outside.
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
Isn't that because it's modded though? I put PES 6 into my old PS2 and it was lightning fast. Passes flew around like the game was on fast forward, top players could just get their head down and sprint faster than Usain Bolt without being tackled over and over again.
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PES 6 on PS2 is 4:3 ;) If you play the game on widescreen TV the game will be way, way to fast , look this post : http://www.evo-web.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=2634292&postcount=2
PES6 on PC is 4:3 , but kitserver fix that. Whit kitserver you have option for widescreens.
 
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Well. I can't say anything about modded PES-5/6-games, but playing PES 5 original back to back yesterday night with PES 2013 original 1.00, I found that both games aren't like real football, but that PES 2013 is considerably nearer to the real thing.

PES 5 is simply too restricted , the restrictions on passing alone seal the deal. The game decides where the pass goes, ie. to the nearest player, while in PES 2013 you can decide to the player farer away or pass into empty space... which adds many more possibilities.

Still I could feel more joy playing PES 5 due to the precise control of the player, the CPU-midfield-players would commit too early and give me the option to outmaneuver them when timed well, while in PES 2013 they would often not commit that obviously. But the latter is more realistic, although it might not give as much joy in that aspect.

In PES 5 I also liked the ball, it felt like an independent entity with energy transferred and while running and dribbling it easily detached from the player.. while in PES 2013 it felt like the ball was part of the player's animation like on strings.

In PES 5 I also liked the referree who did his job precisely, in PES 2013 he is often blind to the many CPU-fouls and CPU-players tend to clip through my players while defending...

So, yes, there are some things that PES 5 is better at than PES 2013, but overall PES 2013 is considerably nearer at representing real football.

If it only had a realtime twotiered stamina system, better AI, better referreing, and the clipping/cheating-issues fixed and the ball were more independent and it were possible to leave rails without using supercancel...

but then next year's version will maybe be a gamechanger.
 
I mean further to the old PES v new PES discussions I have this to add today. This is PS3, new 1.03 patch, zero assists, Superstar.

I have ben playing on the PC lately, but thought let's give the PS3 a go as it's just gathering dust at the moment. I mean, this stuff is just a game killer. When 2013 plays well it really does play well, but you're kind of crossing your fingers and hoping really.

YouTube - 3 clips PES 1.03 PS3 - not great.mp4

The first goal is a real WTF moment...just pants. The second is an uber through ball from Gerrard. Now okay, I know Gerrard is a great long passer etc, but this is zero assists, and I laser guided it to perfection. Then Suarez had immaculate touch for around twenty yards. The third is another keeper blunder.

Like I say, don't get me wrong, I like 2013, but there's just lots still bugging me.
 
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