PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Jamezinho said:
Played one game of PES2013 over the last month and that was enough to make my shit itch. Fuck's sake, where did it all go wrong?

* wistfully thinks back to PES5 *
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Imho the gameplay of PES 2013 is way more realistic and deeper than in PES 5, thanks to 360 degree dribbling and manual passing/shooting.

PES 5 was the better game for its time, but compared directly PES 2013 is more advanced in most areas.

What holds back PES 2013 to have the same effect in this time than PES 5 in its time is that the AI has not made the same jump as the rest of the game-elements. To hide that fact then various forms of cheating-scripts get activated.

Yesterday night I had a match where a CPU-player developed telekinetic powers: The ball jumped off his foot and I tried to intercept the ball and thought I already got it, but then the CPU-player gestured with his foot to the ball to come back and the ball rolled backwards to him...

The other cheating factor are clipping-issues with the ball going through the bodies of my players or even feet of the opponents...

And then in competitive matches the form of the teams is defined by the game and can therefore easily manipulate it to help it gain an upper hand.

And the referree is often blind to fouls.

And the goalkeeper often parries into the feet of the opponents and my CB-defenders conveniently can't be caused to go and clear the ball. Sometimes even if they have the ball under control and I press the button to make them clear the ball, they don't react, and then the CPU takes away the ball.

Things like that are what makes PES 2013 feel worse than it really is, cause the general gameplay of football on the pitch is pretty good and way more advanced than in PES 5.

What hopefully PES 2014 can do is to offer a way more advanced AI so that the need for cheating is greatly reduced and hopefully it also gets a realistic realtime two-tiered-stamina/fatigue-system.
 
I see the Konami apologists are out in force.

I mean of course it's totally unreasonable and unrealistic, to the point of idiocy, to expect a football game to have a half-way decent career mode; let alone leagues that you can actually play!

Personally I've never 'got' the unconditional love thing/cult with PES or Konami. I used to love the game back in the day - now not so much.

Thankfully the number of Konami loyalists is diminishing year on year.
 
Okay so if you enjoy the game online and in exhibiion mode you a "loyalists" are people not allowed to enjoy it?

I can understand frustrations with game modes but online is still great and the bes football game out there not that we have much choice.
 
I don't see anyone unconditionally praising Konami or excusing them for their faults. Bit silly to even mention that to be honest.

It's not idiotic to expect a football game to have a good career mode, in fact with the hardware available and the bar set by other games (Football Manager), it's entirely possible for someone to produce one.

However, to buy PES 2013 and then say you expected it to have a good, or even improved ML is a bit daft.
We know from our own experiences of the series in the past that wasn't going to happen.

I didn't buy FIFA 11, 12 or 13 because I knew that they hadn't sufficiently improved the gameplay for it to be worth any of my time or money, and so I have ignored it.
Surely that's a better approach than buying something I know I inevitably will dislike and then complain non-stop.

As zee says, you're not a "loyalist" for being able to enjoy the best parts of a flawed game and not caring for the aspects that are broken.
 
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Morrissey said:
But in effect you are defending Konami along the lines of:

"Yes PES is flawed in some ways but those ways are effectively unimportant compared to how great the good parts are so why can't all the moaners 'ignore' the minor flaws and enjoy the really important great parts etc."

Furthermore, people on your side of the debate implicitly are saying "I don't care that other members of the community have been badly let down by Konami, I'm happy and really those disappointed people should get over it" - which is basically giving Konami a metaphorical blank cheque.

As for online; it's full of 'win at all costs' anti-football 'gamers' that exploit the game to breaking point. How on earth is that good fun?

BTW FIFA has the same problem with online. I can barely find a manual player to play against. As for UT, it's such a dumbed down spam-fest of 1-2s and through balls the only people that could enjoy it are kids suffering from ADHD ("we must have a goalmouth incident every 5-10 seconds or else") or in footballing terms utter morons.

The issue is that the community always had the "PES is broken because of..." element and the "yes there are flaws in PES but the good parts far outweigh the niggles" section, but frankly I think the evidence from both the games themselves and the community is that the first group is much, much larger than the second group and it used to be the other way around.

Of course any community site is self-selecting to some extent - in that those people that have given up on PES (for example, is 'Badgerman' in the house anymore?) drift away, do other things, play FIFA or whatever. So the fact that pretty hard-core people like Jamezinho are utterly fed up with Konami might indicate the company has got many issues badly, badly wrong.

Just my thoughts.
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I'm in agreement with you on all of that.

I'll say again - In no way am I defending or condoning Konami's incompetence regarding the broken/absent features of PES 2013, they deserve criticism in that regard.
That's not even up for debating, they've screwed up many facets of PES off-the-pitch, fact.

But repeating the complaints that plenty here have already brought up isn't going to change anything. I'm not telling people to shut up, but if we really want to try and fix PES, what needs to happen is we get together a comprehensive list of issues, and do our utmost to see that they reach someone at Konami, who takes them seriously.
But as we all well know, Konami's response to fan feedback is almost non-existant, but it's still the most sensible and constructive approach to take.

I do think it's weird how people look back at PES5/6 with such nostalgic distortion. When you directly compare them to PES 2013 (even PES 2011), they are significantly inferior.
For the time - great football games, hours of fun. Right now? Repetitive, scripted, on-rails unrealistic football with very little freedom.
 
To be honest I don't really consider myself as "hardcore" PES any more. The last one that was truly addictive and worth endless hours of my time was PES5. Every game since then I've bought out of loyalty more than anything else and my playing experiences with PES6-2013 are best described as little and not very often.

Sorry, but this generation of football games has been so remarkably un-spectacular and flawed that I no longer have the will nor the time to try and see the best in these games. I've moved my focus to other game genres that I ultimately find more satisfying.

PES2013 is a nice game on the pitch but with extended play the same old problems quickly reveal themselves. Worse still, the game is a complete shambles offline which condemns PES for another year.

I agree 100% with what Morrisey has said but at the same time I appreciate the other side of the argument from the likes of Rob, Zee and Jimmy that genuinely enjoy the game.
 
Interesting debate, just thought Id chip in as I've been through all the emotions so far with PES13.

First and foremost, there's no denying that as an overall package, PES13 is abysmal. Due to the stripped bare ML, lack of league mode, online elements not working, etc etc... We all know the issues.
Up until a week ago, Ive been hating PES13, as every game felt like i was being uber-cheated by the scripted CPU, I was losing a majority of games and the enjoyment factor just wasn't there, then something changed - Me!!

I changed my mindset and the approach i was taking with the game.
As I felt i was being cheated my style of play was very direct and was feeling like I was forcing the play, the more I forced it, the more I came unstuck and was punished, vicious cycle.
SI changed my approach, I took positional awareness more into consideration, i played a much more patient game, i played to my players strengths...
I also didnt sign any new players pre-season and focused on my existing players teamwork and cohesion. Most of all though, I learnt to defend properly.

I finished the last season 3rd from bottom in D2, playing on professional with zero assists, this season, after the change of mindset, Im top of D2 with 5 games left and have scored double the amount of goals as the 2nd placed team, and most importantly, Im thoroughly enjoying every game I play, and am pleasantly surprised at how realistic and fluid each game seems to be playing out, when I play the game the 'right' way.

Now this is in no way a preaching exercise, we all have differing PES experiences different personalities and different ways of playing the game, all I'm saying is that I've learnt to accept PES13 for what it is, shallow package, bare ML and all and now I've done that, I'm not getting annoyed with the game and I'm now very much enjoying it.
This doesn't mean I'm not expecting much better things for next year of course, I want the series to return to the cult acclaim that its had in the past and think Konami may have learnt a few lessons from this year and hopefully, next year, we will have a deep engaging and immersive ML to keep us entertained, solid stable other modes and of course good consistent solid game play.
 
xPJRx said:
Interesting debate, just thought Id chip in as I've been through all the emotions so far with PES13.

First and foremost, there's no denying that as an overall package, PES13 is abysmal. Due to the stripped bare ML, lack of league mode, online elements not working, etc etc... We all know the issues.
Up until a week ago, Ive been hating PES13, as every game felt like i was being uber-cheated by the scripted CPU, I was losing a majority of games and the enjoyment factor just wasn't there, then something changed - Me!!

I changed my mindset and the approach i was taking with the game.
As I felt i was being cheated my style of play was very direct and was feeling like I was forcing the play, the more I forced it, the more I came unstuck and was punished, vicious cycle.
SI changed my approach, I took positional awareness more into consideration, i played a much more patient game, i played to my players strengths...
I also didnt sign any new players pre-season and focused on my existing players teamwork and cohesion. Most of all though, I learnt to defend properly.

I finished the last season 3rd from bottom in D2, playing on professional with zero assists, this season, after the change of mindset, Im top of D2 with 5 games left and have scored double the amount of goals as the 2nd placed team, and most importantly, Im thoroughly enjoying every game I play, and am pleasantly surprised at how realistic and fluid each game seems to be playing out, when I play the game the 'right' way.

Now this is in no way a preaching exercise, we all have differing PES experiences different personalities and different ways of playing the game, all I'm saying is that I've learnt to accept PES13 for what it is, shallow package, bare ML and all and now I've done that, I'm not getting annoyed with the game and I'm now very much enjoying it.
This doesn't mean I'm not expecting much better things for next year of course, I want the series to return to the cult acclaim that its had in the past and think Konami may have learnt a few lessons from this year and hopefully, next year, we will have a deep engaging and immersive ML to keep us entertained, solid stable other modes and of course good consistent solid game play.
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Glad you're enjoying ML mate, personally I just couldn't get on with it. I learnt to 'ignore' the fact that tons of features are missing, and leant to ignore the fact that every team in ML virtually doesn't score or concede any goals (or that half my squad were leading the top scorers charts because, well, the AI teams don't score against each other) but the more I played it, the more I found that what's survived in this year's mode doesn't work properly.

- Teamwork doesn't work
- Finances don't show correct totals
- my squad mysteriously came down with purple arrow syndrome for most of the season
- the game attacks your form arrows in very deliberate ways. It loved to make all my keepers simultaneously purple, or all my CB's etc.

But the final straw was that when I gained promotion, my achievement was immediately scuppered by the game making all my top players slap in transfer requests the following day. With no option than to sell, the game then decides that 90-rated players in my team are worth a quarter of what a 75-rated player sells for from another team. Ripped off out of a ton of transfer money, and despite now being in the top league, the game made it so that no players in my entire ML universe were more than 2% interested in joining my club - even a 45-rated Div 2 player wasn't interested.

Fair enough, I'll invest more cash into the club's youth system instead I thought. Then I remembered that they'd stripped that option out too.

And what's the deal with injuries? In two seasons with ML default players and the worst fitness coach and club doctor possible, I had ZERO injuries in two seasons. Not one. Not even one player out for one week.

I then did the first few weeks of a ML as Spurs, with the best coaches, club doctors etc that money can buy, and every week i had at least 3-4 players injured on a near constant basis.

WTF?
:((
 
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Morrissey said:
But in effect you are defending Konami along the lines of:

"Yes PES is flawed in some ways but those ways are effectively unimportant compared to how great the good parts are so why can't all the moaners 'ignore' the minor flaws and enjoy the really important great parts etc."

Furthermore, people on your side of the debate implicitly are saying "I don't care that other members of the community have been badly let down by Konami, I'm happy and really those disappointed people should get over it" - which is basically giving Konami a metaphorical blank cheque.

As for online; it's full of 'win at all costs' anti-football 'gamers' that exploit the game to breaking point. How on earth is that good fun?

BTW FIFA has the same problem with online. I can barely find a manual player to play against. As for UT, it's such a dumbed down spam-fest of 1-2s and through balls the only people that could enjoy it are kids suffering from ADHD ("we must have a goalmouth incident every 5-10 seconds or else") or in footballing terms utter morons.

The issue is that the community always had the "PES is broken because of..." element and the "yes there are flaws in PES but the good parts far outweigh the niggles" section, but frankly I think the evidence from both the games themselves and the community is that the first group is much, much larger than the second group and it used to be the other way around.

Of course any community site is self-selecting to some extent - in that those people that have given up on PES (for example, is 'Badgerman' in the house anymore?) drift away, do other things, play FIFA or whatever. So the fact that pretty hard-core people like Jamezinho are utterly fed up with Konami might indicate the company has got many issues badly, badly wrong.

Just my thoughts.
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Not in agreement with most of that. Everyone makes their own choice. Conversely you're doing the same thing in an opposite way, because the flaws are more prominent to you than the enjoyment of the good parts, you seem to resent the people who can put up with the flaws.

If you can't enjoy the game without the flaws getting in the way, then post some constructive criticism as to how Konami can improve the game. It can be used for feedback. Theres no problem with that, in fact its a positive action. Then stop playing it if you dislike it so much.

I think the problem is the constant moaning when people have made it quite clear that they dislike the game, and can't enjoy it past the flaws. We understand, you just don't need to go on about it 24/7.

I'm like that with FIFA. I've stated clearly on these forums and in other places (such as Eurogamer) what I find good about it and what I dislike. The dislikes are too prominent and get in the way of me enjoying the good things, and have for a long time. I've posted my suggestions for improvements, and I've stopped playing it. I haven't owned FIFA since FIFA 10; I play the demos, but don't go on moaning about it 24/7, just the odd comparison here or there if necessary. I also don't resent the people that enjoy it either. As Lami said a while ago, they're getting what they want out of it and that is their choice.

Online is the same for PES at least. Some people can't put up with the general anti-football exploitative gameplay, some people can and develop strategies to counter it, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't but enough fun can be gotten out of the mode. Those who can put up with it and enjoy it to a degree shouldn't be resented, those who can't also shouldn't be resented.

might indicate the company has got many issues badly, badly wrong.
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Of course they have, and I don't think you'll find even the players happy with the game disagreeing. But by the same token you also can't ignore the many issues they have got right either.

I'd consider myself a hardcore player too, and I still like the game after all these years of criticism. If Jamezinho doesn't, he doesn't. If I do, I do. A lot of hardcore players have defected, yes, and you seem to think that proves your point in your camp of disliking the game. But a lot of hardcore players are still here. If they weren't, the game would have died a long time ago. It seems by your reckoning, PES is so bad that no one should buy it at all to teach Konami a lesson, so the game should die and then there will only be one football title on sale, unchallenged by any competition, a great way of avoiding complacency.
 
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Super - I do feel your pain mate, and can associate with a lot of it.
as for Teamwork, I purposely didnt sign any players pre-season, so i could let the team gel and that they have, the team make much better runs this season, the defenders are holding shape better and in most cases the teamwork stat for each player has increased by anything from 10-30%.

Finances do make sense, they're just not structured very well and not explained in an easy to understand manner, this needs work.

I agree with the form arrows, 10 wins from 12 games, and suddenly 8 of my starting 11 are purple arrowed. Doesnt make sense and isn't very realistic, this definitely needs addressing.
I've resorted to picking blue/purple arrow players purely because a) dont have much choice and b) it doesn't seem to make a massive difference.
I bagged a hat-trick with a Purple arrowed Minandinho one game.

Ive had the odd injury, mostly 1 weekers, nothing long term, and the low CPU scorelines could be a problem going forward but for now, all is quite rosy!!
 
Problem is that Konami have recognised the finance thing as a bug, going to be fixed in the patch but didn't help my ML I'd poured time into playing. They make sense, they just give inaccurate projected earnings.

And that's odd about your teamwork improving, into my third season before I quit, the most any of my players' teamwork improved was by 3pts. A guy with teamwork of 75, signed for my club and dropped down to 49. Into the third season at my club, he was still only on teamwork of 52.

Also, form arrows had a massive difference for me. It kept targeting my two keepers constantly, so you'd have no choice but to play one of them. They'd be incapable of saving the worst of shots. One time my keeper just stood and watch the ball dribble at him, and rather than dive or pick the ball up, he just ran straight past it and it rolled into the net. Oh, and my keepers had form ratings of 7, and the previous year had been fine. Only when I mounted a proper promotion bid did the game start with all the constant purple arrow nonsense.

Good luck with carrying on though!
 
my biggest bone of contention with this years version is nothing new in edit mode, less game modes to play.(I think thats partly why they never mentioned a release date for ages then all of a sudden they released it with no mention of league mode taken out and giving games magazines less time to fully review it). the AI of your team mates is no better than last years version. Gks are still rubbish especially 1v1s, player switching is still random. all the problems they have had with the game releasing updates to fix the said problems. online constantly being down for maintenance more than last year, and they want to charge everybody £40 roughly for the pleasure. now that in my book is taking the piss,hence why i refuse to buy it and i sent them an email,not that they will take any notice because there customer service is piss poor.but it made me feel better. but if others want to pay full whack for it thats also there perogative.
 
Good post shorty :TU:

johnking said:
my biggest bone of contention with this years version is nothing new in edit mode, less game modes to play.(I think thats partly why they never mentioned a release date for ages then all of a sudden they released it with no mention of league mode taken out and giving games magazines less time to fully review it). the AI of your team mates is no better than last years version. Gks are still rubbish especially 1v1s, player switching is still random. all the problems they have had with the game releasing updates to fix the said problems. online constantly being down for maintenance more than last year, and they want to charge everybody £40 roughly for the pleasure. now that in my book is taking the piss,hence why i refuse to buy it and i sent them an email,not that they will take any notice because there customer service is piss poor.but it made me feel better. but if others want to pay full whack for it thats also there perogative.
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Come on dude. I'm not trying to be mean with this post, but I have pointed this out to you before.

Your posts are so hard to read, can you not just reread what you type and correct the grammatical/spelling errors and structure your sentences/paragraphs a bit?

You're from Sheffield and you have the name John King - from those observations I gather that you are an Englishman. If so, there aren't many valid excuses.
 
You know people are really fed up with PES when they'd rather have an argument about grammar and punctuation than actually talk about the game.

I suppose it has all been said before. Some people like it even though they admit the overall package is pretty poor and some people think the fact the overall package is pretty poor mean it's a pretty poor game.

Personally I've been enjoying a wry smile or two at Supertalk's posts because, for me, they describe exactly what PES is. All of the things he has described have been going on in PES for years now and Konami show no signs of changing them for the better any time soon. They clearly firmly believe they are on the right track despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Morrisey is bang on when he says the "hardcore" element of PES fans has been seriously diminished over the last few years and it appears only a handful remain on forums like this one. Nearly everyone else is utterly pissed off with Konami and PES. Whatever your views on the game itself, surely everyone must admit that this is a bad sign for PES in general and that Konami should definitely get their shit together where this series is concerned.
 
on the topic of hardcore fans leaving:
Not an easy way to measure that, is there? I mean do we actually have specific numbers to compare X - the number of hardcore playes in 2005-6 and Y - the number of such players now? It's all perception, although, very likely a correct one. (Not arguing that point, mind you, just pointing out that it's not very easy to prove one way or the other.)

I think the reason of PES downfall as a simulator of football is basically a change of direction from a marketing point of view. Somebody at Konami did a research on who's been buying the game, and figured out what the target audience really was. From there, they determined what the target audience wants: up-to-date shirts with correct logos and sponsors, proper haircuts for marquee players, realistic sweat on Christiano Ronaldo's forehead. All of that has been delivered brilliantly by Konami, hasn't it? Mission accomplished.

Like many here, i would prefer to get: realistic physics with no special powers, change of pace (so that you can slow the game down, or accelerate quickly), complete removal of cheat scripts and invisible walls, more advanced collision model, better animations, more emphasis on tactical play, hard-to-break defences, customizable AI, simple but flexible way to play tournaments. If that comes at a price of removing licenses, ML, online mode, facebook integration - i'd take that any day. Problem is, hardcore football fans are not the group of people that this game is aimed at. Perhaps, it never was.
 
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I gave the game another go for a few games or so after a long time. In the mean time i played a lot of nba 2k. Now going back to pes after nab 2k is nothing short of depressing tbh. Against the AI the scripting and lack of freedom the shit poor animation and the feeling of being forced to play in a certain way is almost embarassing. And the only thing the Ai kept doing is killing my with perfectly timed off side free through balls. Fun was pretty much close to 0. I won't even start on the presentation side of it...

Anyway did they fix the 2v2 on line or is it still lock up on 1 player?
 
pj_puttz said:
You know people are really fed up with PES when they'd rather have an argument about grammar and punctuation than actually talk about the game.
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That makes no sense. I was the one correcting the grammar and I'm enjoying PES!

It's just that Englishmen not speaking or writing in decent English is one of the things that I find irritating.

juce said:
on the topic of hardcore fans leaving:
Not an easy way to measure that, is there? I mean do we actually have specific numbers to compare X - the number of hardcore playes in 2005-6 and Y - the number of such players now? It's all perception, although, very likely a correct one. (Not arguing that point, mind you, just pointing out that it's not very easy to prove one way or the other.)

I think the reason of PES downfall as a simulator of football is basically a change of direction from a marketing point of view. Somebody at Konami did a research on who's been buying the game, and figured out what the target audience really was. From there, they determined what the target audience wants: up-to-date shirts with correct logos and sponsors, proper haircuts for marquee players, realistic sweat on Christiano Ronaldo's forehead. All of that has been delivered brilliantly by Konami, hasn't it? Mission accomplished.

Like many here, i would prefer to get: realistic physics with no special powers, change of pace (so that you can slow the game down, or accelerate quickly), complete removal of cheat scripts and invisible walls, more advanced collision model, better animations, more emphasis on tactical play, hard-to-break defences, customizable AI, simple but flexible way to play tournaments. If that comes at a price of removing licenses, ML, online mode, facebook integration - i'd take that any day. Problem is, hardcore football fans are not the group of people that this game is aimed at. Perhaps, it never was.
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Konami havn't got a chance in hell of competing with FIFA on the aesthetics, licenses or pick-up-and-play gameplay.

Instead of trying and failing to reach out to an already distant and lost audience in the FIFA crowd, I think they would be better off fully trying to create a hardcore sim. All Konami can do for their reputation is work hard on PES 2014 and let it (and the community) do the talking.
A solid patch for 2013 to add lost features wouldn't go amiss but that's very unlikely.
 
Jamezinho said:
I disagree, Rob.

Aesthetics is something Konami can compete on. They had the better looking game on the PS2 and still do now in my opinion. PES has always boasted better player models, kits, faces, hair, pitch textures, stadium models, etc. What lets it down is the presentation, i.e. menus, in-game overlays...those kind of things where EA excels.

Licences are difficult but they can compete if they are willing to invest. Look at the Champions League acquisition, for instance.

Pick-up-and-play: always a hallmark of a good PES. Easy to learn but with plenty of depth.

In my opinion PES needs to win back some of those fans it lost to Fifa, not give up and take a hardcore-orientated stance. The market for any hardcore simulation is a small, niche market almost by definition, and PES is very much a mass-market game. That's where the money is. PES has never been a full-blown sim and never will be. What Konami must do is strike the casual/hardcore balance that they hit so well on the PS2.

I don't buy all the "gameplay is fundamental" talk. That's a dated perspective. In the age of HD displays, 5.1 surround sound and online gaming, the whole package needs to be thoroughly strong in all areas. That's why Fifa wins out big time.
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what if next year we will have the whole package but not gameplay? Will you be happy with that?
 
Ameppe said:
what if next year we will have the whole package but not gameplay? Will you be happy with that?
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To be fair I don't think that's what Jamezinho was saying at all. No-one would be happy if the gameplay isn't up to scratch. I personally don't think FIFA has gameplay that is up to scratch, so despite the glitz and the presentation, it's still not worth playing in my opinion.

I agree with Jamezinho. The game next year needs to be strong in all areas, not just gameplay. If the new engine comes out and the game still has shit sound, poor game modes and poor graphics then it won't win anyone back to the series.

Also, on the graphics, I too prefer PES' graphical style to FIFA one hundred percent. If they can just get it actually in proper HD, improve animations and lighting, they'll be laughing. I personally hate the FIFA style, player models look wrong and the whole thing has a cartoon-like appearance to it.

Konami can easily improve the visuals, sound, menus, music, add vastly more detail in Master League, and most importantly, do all this while developing the game with the COMMUNITY in mind. We all know PES cannot compete in terms of licences, so what Konami need to do is make editing easier for those out there gracious enough to do it for everyone else. Make available more slots, more choices, more leagues, more everything. Only then will people come back to the series. They need to make the game rich in editable content. From editing tiny incidental details on kits, like in the PS2 days where kits became untucked, dirty etc, to allowing people to choose different types of goal nets etc. It might seem incidental, but football fans are all about the small details. Make a game that can be visually edited and tweaked in as many ways possible and people will be happy.

Editing is the only thing that has kept the franchise alive all this time. If they could get a game out with top notch graphics, sound, great gameplay, and superior editing then people would come flooding back. The internet is a powerful thing. Imagine how many people would be tempted back by the sight of a cutting-edge PES, with a Master League that allows you to download an option file containing all four divisions from each league and have them all in the same game mode....
 
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Suuuuupertalk said:
To be fair I don't think that's what Jamezinho was saying at all. No-one would be happy if the gameplay isn't up to scratch. I personally don't think FIFA has gameplay that is up to scratch, so despite the glitz and the presentation, it's still not worth playing in my opinion.

I agree with Jamezinho. The game next year needs to be strong in all areas, not just gameplay. If the new engine comes out and the game still has shit sound, poor game modes and poor graphics then it won't win anyone back to the series.

Also, on the graphics, I too prefer PES' graphical style to FIFA one hundred percent. If they can just get it actually in proper HD, improve animations and lighting, they'll be laughing. I personally hate the FIFA style, player models look wrong and the whole thing has a cartoon-like appearance to it.

Konami can easily improve the visuals, sound, menus, music, add vastly more detail in Master League, and most importantly, do all this while developing the game with the COMMUNITY in mind. We all know PES cannot compete in terms of licences, so what Konami need to do is make editing easier for those out there gracious enough to do it for everyone else. Make available more slots, more choices, more leagues, more everything. Only then will people come back to the series. They need to make the game rich in editable content. From editing tiny incidental details on kits, like in the PS2 days where kits became untucked, dirty etc, to allowing people to choose different types of goal nets etc. It might seem incidental, but football fans are all about the small details. Make a game that can be visually edited and tweaked in as many ways possible and people will be happy.

Editing is the only thing that has kept the franchise alive all this time. If they could get a game out with top notch graphics, sound, great gameplay, and superior editing then people would come flooding back. The internet is a powerful thing. Imagine how many people would be tempted back by the sight of a cutting-edge PES, with a Master League that allows you to download an option file containing all four divisions from each league and have them all in the same game mode....
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How I wish you were in charge of the production of the game. This indeed is what everyone wants, and most of the things are so easy to implement.
 
fanolato said:
The definition of the word whole:

Adjective:
All of; entire

So by that definition, I'd assume that when he says "whole package" it includes gameplay.
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Thank you.

I thought it would be patently obvious that I wasn't dismissing gameplay. It should always be the number one priority of any game. However it's not the only thing that matters. Everything in the game should be given the same level of care so that end result is a high quality product.

Anyone who plays the NBA2K games will know exactly what I mean. That franchise completely changed my opinion of PES when I started playing it about six years ago.

Suuuuupertalk said:
so what Konami need to do is make editing easier for those out there gracious enough to do it for everyone else. Make available more slots, more choices, more leagues, more everything. Only then will people come back to the series. They need to make the game rich in editable content. From editing tiny incidental details on kits, like in the PS2 days where kits became untucked, dirty etc, to allowing people to choose different types of goal nets etc. It might seem incidental, but football fans are all about the small details. Make a game that can be visually edited and tweaked in as many ways possible and people will be happy.

Editing is the only thing that has kept the franchise alive all this time. If they could get a game out with top notch graphics, sound, great gameplay, and superior editing then people would come flooding back. The internet is a powerful thing. Imagine how many people would be tempted back by the sight of a cutting-edge PES, with a Master League that allows you to download an option file containing all four divisions from each league and have them all in the same game mode....
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Indeed, this is a great point. Konami should look to include some kind of in-game file exchange system. I'm thinking of something similar to the auction house/store in Forza Motorsport (but without the credits involved, i.e. everything free). This way someone could create (for example) an Arsenal kit and upload it to the store to share with the rest of the community, who can then apply it in edit mode. This would help generate a very healthy editing community and also make editing much easier for the end user.
 
I'm not sure where I fall in this argument. I certainly detested PES 2012, but with 2013 I'm three years into an ML as Schalke and it's very enjoyable.

However, I would say that part of Konami's problems stem from a complete lack of subtlety. My team is now averaging mid-70s with a couple of 80 rated players. We just played a cup match against a lower division side with an average rating of 60's. There striker was a 52 and their two centre-halves were 58 and 61. But wait, of my 24 man roster, a full 16 are on purple arrows and 4 or on blues. None are red. It's a home game. We've just won 4 in a row. In what should have been a lovely little game that allowed me to play part of my second team, where I might try a new formation and a few new plays, turned into the most excruciating close victory in my three year ML. The 52 rated striker scored a bicycle kick in traffic at minute 72 to tie the game, by the way.

Look, I'm glad ML is so competitve and that it is easy to lose if you aren't paying attention. But who wants such absurdity? I do get Konami's point, but they might soften that edge just a little bit. Less obvious, friend.

--good day.
 
Apparently you can't be cup tied in Become a Legend. I signed with Inter in the summer, and played in the Champions League until December. Then I signed with Juventus, and I was still able to play in February. Konami dropped the ball on that one.
 
Put on the FIFA demo last night even after swearing I wouldn't go back and touch it lol. I hope PES takes on some of the freedom FIFA has with the new engine they're talking about. Felt refreshing to be able to move a player in a certain direction and have him respond. The same with player switching. The shooting has some good oomph and the sound FX are fantastic.

I still don't think the ball physics are that great for crossing or passing but at least you feel like you can put the ball where you want. If they implemented a better inertia/momentum model and tidied up the crossing/passing physics, it would really stick it to PES.

I still enjoy the gameplay on PES but they really really need to fix a lot of things for PES 2014. No more excuses. They need a COMPLETE package this time.
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
Problem is that Konami have recognised the finance thing as a bug, going to be fixed in the patch but didn't help my ML I'd poured time into playing.
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I think you've misread the patchnotes. The only reference to a fix for a financial system bug relates to Master League Online.

There's nothing 'wrong' with ML's finances – just as there's nothing 'wrong' with ML for what it is. There are no bugs affecting the flow of the seasons from one to the next. You're not meant to be able to sign better players as quickly as in years gone by. What you see as brokenness is a new level of difficulty within the ML game-world that you currently don't like.

The form arrows thing is a bloody annoying feature of the early seasons that soon settles down. It makes no sense at any time, granted, but what else does make sense in Master League? When has this mode ever been – word of the month – authentic? Sure, many things are so annoying as to be counter-immersive, but immersion and authenticity are not the same thing.

In a nutshell: for your inevitable restart next week on the all-new and organic 1.02, just take your time, relax a bit with the game. It will always screw you over in some way, somehow, eventually.
 
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Keith Houchen said:
I think you've misread the patchnotes. The only reference to a fix for a financial system bug relates to Master League Online.

There's nothing 'wrong' with ML's finances – just as there's nothing 'wrong' with ML for what it is. There are no bugs affecting the flow of the seasons from one to the next. You're not meant to be able to sign better players as quickly as in years gone by. What you see as brokenness is a new level of difficulty within the ML game-world that you currently don't like.

The form arrows thing is a bloody annoying feature of the early seasons that soon settles down. It makes no sense at any time, granted, but what else does make sense in Master League? When has this mode ever been – word of the month – authentic? Sure, many things are so annoying as to be counter-immersive, but immersion and authenticity are not the same thing.

In a nutshell: for your inevitable restart next week on the all-new and organic 1.02, just take your time, relax a bit with the game. It will always screw you over in some way, somehow, eventually.
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I just can't stop laughing at that post. It's just, brilliant.
 
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