PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

One thing I forgot to mention here guys, about the off-ball movement of our AI team mates.
Konami answered my prayers about this on Demo 2 :)
Let's hope it makes the final cut.

One of my biggest frustrations on PES 2012 and Demo 1 was the lack of movement of team mates to receive passes. It's almost as if you had to press R3 all the time! And without it your team mates wouldn't make a run.
Now it seems all my AI team mates know what to do, when to overlap or simply run into a space to open up spaces to the player carrying the ball.
Thumbs up to that one!

Also, another great feeling from the old WE/PES is back with a bang: Lobbying shots with L1!

For years and years now the L1 + square shot has been a dull, ineffective, low chip that almost always ended up easily saved by the GK. But now we can really beat the keeper with a properly high lobby out of his reach - just like what Raul loved to do in his Real Madrid glory days.

It's a great feeling to pull one of these cheeky lobs when playing against friends. It's a subject of much winding up and banter :D

Can't wait to see what the full version looks like and then go on to training mode and exploring the box of tricks at our disposal.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

hitmanuk said:
Totally disagree, i'm 35 and have been playing PES/ISS since being around 16-17 years old. I have half switched to FIFA in 08 and then totally converted after the Euro game. Fifa does not have dumbed down gameplay, what is has is options on how to play it, if your a kid then play it 2 button mode or all assisted, for the old school with manual and sliders the gameplay is anything but dumbed down. PES is in standstill mode, every year its the same only tired animations, the poor cameras, the bad switching and the ropey keepers that force you to turn it off. Add on this year the AI constantly looking for the through ball. I reckon I am 30 games in on the PC with the time extended mod and I'd say a good 90 % of goals I have has been through a perfect through ball, which your defender doesn't react/switch in time, and then one on one with the keeper.
Click to expand...

PES evidently has a lot of great individual factors that work in its favour. Some people look beyond the problems you've mentioned because they much prefer how certain elements of PES mirror real football. I think a huge draw is the error factor. To some PES is often a mess because it doesn't play out how they want it to, they aren't as in control as they would like, but to others that's a better representation of football. To some, if you make a defensive mistake then you should be punished as per real life. To some, pushing the ball too far away from your feet or running in trouble should result in you losing the ball. To some, if you just try to first time pass it every time you should lose the ball. They are football mistakes.

Fifa is more so about being in control and providing a fluid and cohesive experience for the users. Naturally things get dumbed down and that is why we likely have a situation where everybody controls the ball like Messi (as the saying goes). I can alter the settings however I wish but the game is still quite arcadey. I've yet to see any settings affect momentum, first touch or ball control and these are a problems concerning realism. What I will say about Fifa though is that it feels more balanced than PES. Deliberately balanced when two people play against one another. Whereas in PES I feel more out of control and like the AI could revert to a football mistake, in Fifa you always feel in control. I feel that's a good thing when it comes to a competitive video game. It's not a good representation of football but it works well for an e-sport, which is essentially what Fifa has become. Balance and feeling like you're in control are necessary factor for competitive games regardless of genre.

In my opinion they both do something different and your preference comes down to what kind of game you're looking for.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Good post mate and you are right. It just bugs me when people say you can score volleys from the half way line and 35 yard scissor kicks in FIFA and its like FIFA street (posted in the FIFA 13 section). I dont know if its like that on assisted but I have yet to experience any of that in 12 months of playing FIFA 12. I guess it's the same for both games people put it on for 5 minutes then declare it rubbish without giving it a chance
 
My 10 year old loves FIFA and hates PES. The reason is that Fifa is a great out of the box game. No option files, players at the correct teams, real kits, real names, nice menus and basically the game looks finished unlike pes which looks half complete out of the box.
A 10 year old isn't interested in option files. Nor would know how to do them. They want to get home from school, fire up
Console and play with their fav teams. That's why FIFA is perfect to younger people. Do you know any kids that buy pes? I don't. Would be interested to see.
Years ago I thought pes was for the footballers rather than the gamers.
Maybe FIFA has got better over the years but it still lacks something for me.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

FIFA also delivers more instant gratification, something which is more important to younger players.

How many kids these days can be bothered to sit down and learn the fine details of PES? When I was in my teens I loved ISS when I first played it because of the depth it offered in the gameplay, and the time it took to master the game. Nowadays that is seen as a bad thing by many kids.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Great point Jamezinho, PES has always been about continually learning and noticing new things, literally up to the point of the next version's release.

Once you've played the other option for a few weeks you've pretty much hit a wall.

Anyway, to keep it on topic I'll finish by saying, I'm very excited about Pro Evo 2013 and I'm made up it's coming out so early (the earliest I can ever remember).
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Gedtillo said:
Okay, here come my impressions.

First, some background. Oldest members may remember me as I was a hardcore fan of the in-game editor and tried to help around seven-eight years ago with kit and badge edition in PS2. I have been a PES player since ISS on Super NES, ISS Pro Evolution (all versions) on PS1, and all PES and some Winning Eleven versions too on PS2. Then next-gen consoles came and PES was ruined. Until now.

This the year where I'm dumping FIFA (been there for 10, 11 and 12 versions) and coming back home. To me, PES 2013 is back to its roots, great sensations in a football game.

Demo 2 shows many things that have been missing since the PS2 era:

- First, and most important of all, I have not detected any major problem, there's no evident deal-breaker to me, which is a new since next-gen arrived. This should not be news under normal conditions, but we all know what PES has become lately, so it is something to mention.

Now the good stuff:

- True (this time for real) 360º degree control.
- Players move fluidly, not like robots or on-rails.
- Super cancel is not that much needed anymore, as the manual R3 teammate-run button works like a charm.
- Manual passing and shooting is perfectly implemented in this game. This is a blast for me. It's PES back to its best: give me control over passing, and I'll decide how to play.
- Again, passing is bliss in this game. :)
- Shooting: want to curl it in? Press R2, position your player well and you'll see a great technical effort. Want to blast it in like a rocket? Tap square once, and when your player is about to touch the ball, tap it again: Ronaldo-like missile without any effect, swerving towards the goalie. Want it low? Tap triangle after square and the rocket will turn into a torpedo. It's your choice, and IMHO it's perfectly implemented.
- AI seems good to me. Goalies are not utter crap, neither are they Casillas all the time. CPU pressure seems a bit high, but that's most of modern footy anyway, and it forces you to build up your plays "Spain-style", or try a Xabi Alonso intelligent through ball.
- Corner kicks and crosses to the box feel perfectly balanced in pace and curl for me. I just happen to be useless in heading so far, but I'm sure it's my fault, as I've conceded several cool headers against friends in the demo.
- Game speed seems very good to me. I long for 10 minute games in which I have a bit more time to build up plays, but overall speed at "0" seems OK to me.
- Player ID is perfect. Ronaldo feels like Superman when running into open spaces, Messi is lethal (finally!), Iniesta, Özil, Xavi, Pirlo, all deliver great ball control and passing, Ramos just feels strong, Rooney has his monster shooting... Try nice skills with Neymar, but don't dare do so with Gomez. You can feel the difference there.
- Defending has implemented the best ideas from FIFA (contention) and, again IMO, improved upon them. I like the use of R2 for jockeying, X for contention, double X for tackling and square for teammate help. You can just press square to send your teammates to pressure while keeping control of a defender some metres behind with X, organizing your pressure effectively. This is new for PES (it used to be just hold square+X forever and run around), and it brings a new dimension.
- I just LOVE dribbling on this game. It's cool how they have implemented simple moves like Iniesta's "La Croqueta" effectively (moves are simple, the art is in the timing) and complex ones too (Neymar's feints require a bit more button-magic which make them less frequent). Just as in real life.
- I also enjoy the R2 oriented control button. I like the R2+R1 combinations (pace change, nutmeg, run-around). Very intuitive. Very well implemented.

What I like less:

- I still feel the collision engine is somewhat lacking. Sometimes players bounce between themselves as if they were mannequins, not people. Not much of a severe problem, but it's definitely there.
- I have become spoilt by how FIFA players fight for an air ball or while running the sides. I feel this is not quite up to the same level in PES yet.
- I still don't understand what's with the pitch texture and Konami. I play this game for the feels of it, not the looks, but come on, it's 2012 already. It cannot be too hard when every single patch massively improves pitch textures. And it's been like this since 2003. Time to fix it guys.
- Chants and audience noise suck. Always been like this, always will be. Missing so much the custom chants that FIFA allow in the game editor, it makes a big difference in presentation.
- Have not had the chance to listen to Spanish commentary yet, and still I suppose it will suck, as it always has. :)
- Licenses are overdue, a must for this game. I cannot patch a PS3 game as I patched the PS2 ones, so unlicensed teams are a hassle... unless the in-game editor is as cool as it used to be.

Overall, I've not felt anything similar for a PES since Winning Eleven 7 International. To me, it was downhill ever since. This is the first PES that feels like the good Pro-Evo in many, many years. And I'd say it's up there with the best. To me, this is a massive improvement over what came before, finally a true deserver of the PES name in the next-gen consoles, and a fresh change from FIFA (which being as awesome as it is, has grown a bit old on me recently).

Good feelings...
Click to expand...

Thanks for your post mate.
Finally some words I'm very happy to read. Last days I'm reading negatives feedback from pes veterans who feel pes2012 elements ruining demo2 and this is going to make me mad as I'm in love with of demo1 for the reasons you have very well explained.

As you for the first time since next gen I feel to face a real pes game after demo1.
For my personal taste pes11-12 have been the worst pes ever because of their floaty gameplay among the other things. I remember the moment I tried pes2011 demo, I instantly felt this unnutural sense of lightness and anything alse could have rescued the game from that structural issue.

I hadn't the chance of try demo2 on my own, so your words make happier today.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

In fact thanks to the remarkably smooth animation and physics and the introduction of a higher running-pace and overall higher awareness and reactiveness, PES 2013 demo2 can now even cater to Fifa-fans.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

mjp said:
Great point Jamezinho, PES has always been about continually learning and noticing new things, literally up to the point of the next version's release.

Once you've played the other option for a few weeks you've pretty much hit a wall.

Anyway, to keep it on topic I'll finish by saying, I'm very excited about Pro Evo 2013 and I'm made up it's coming out so early (the earliest I can ever remember).
Click to expand...

Looks like you are talking about quality.
Pes has always been about quality actually, right.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

PES is definitely mean't for the more grown up individuals out there, its not for kids imo!

Pretty sad about ML though, the brazilian league is separated from all the others with 2 other fake leagues and I dont think we'll be able to buy players in ML for a european club from one of the brazilian teams or copa lib teams :(
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

zeemeister said:
If you struggling with through passes try playing around with your defensive line and try not to push your CBs out when they have a striker running on their shoulder and a midifielder running with the ball in the zone between where your midfield should be and you defense. Lots of people fall for that in real life too. You will get caught out time and again.

I find covering channels and defending backwards rather than trying to win the ball back as quickly as possible is the better approach. Inevtiably you bite down press R1 and x snarling at the screen and the opposition steps you and send a throughball to the unattended striker to stroke home.
Click to expand...

Exactly how I try to defend and it seriously winds the AI up.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Well until the CPU cheats with that phantom un-intercept-able pass all is well. The problem is that you cannot pressure a bad pass or a bad touch so it always makes me feel created.

I'll rather stop the pass so in midfield i get super physical. A deep back line with wide sb also help me but i naturally dominate my matches with 60-70% possession so cpu only gets those chances about 3-5 times in a 15 minute half.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I always compared PES and FIFA to Counter Strike and Call of Duty. Counter Strike takes years to even be good at it, while Call of Duty is fun to play, run around, spray your opponents and basically do whatever you please which lacks FUN and realism. Same with PES and FIFA. PES offers a learning curve where you really have to think while playing. FIFA is easy to pick up and younger kids love it. Over the years FIFA was able to get better especially with the gameplay. LOOKING at two games and the gameplay videos, you'd think FIFA plays more realistically and it DOES look more real and that is because of animations and the way players move, but you JUST DONT GET that satisfaction like you do when you play PES.

Speaking of realism SOWS (Sensible World Of Soccer) and 96/97 being the best ever is strongly considered to be the best football game ever made, even to this day. This game is listed as one of the best video games ever made and is in Hall of Fame with games such as Zelda, Final Fantasy etc... and this game wasn't based on graphics, or boots, or anything BUT THE GAMEPLAY. Sure you had 20 foot sliding tackles and lots of other stuff that cant ever happen in real life but the game of football should be ONLY based on one thing. That is GAMEPLAY. If KONAMI want to be on top of again and be untouchable all they have to do is STOP LISTENING to people who complain about graphics, boots and other small petty things and focus STRICTLY on gameplay.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

zeemeister said:
@hitman thanks sorry if I struck a nerve I know how you feel about fifa but at the end of the day it comes down to opinion.

A slower game can be deemed unresponsive and bug ridden to one person and sim perfectly capturing momentum and inertia to another.

If you struggling with through passes try playing around with your defensive line and try not to push your CBs out when they have a striker running on their shoulder and a midifielder running with the ball in the zone between where your midfield should be and you defense. Lots of people fall for that in real life too. You will get caught out time and again.

I find covering channels and defending backwards rather than trying to win the ball back as quickly as possible is the better approach. Inevtiably you bite down press R1 and x snarling at the screen and the opposition steps you and send a throughball to the unattended striker to stroke home.
Click to expand...

That is exactly it.

It's the same for high pressure on opposition half, always try to keep the players in front of the ball instead of charging in.
I'm sure a lot of players are still used to the old days where you could easily read and react accordingly, with basically just 1 random player nearest to the ball. That tactic doesn't really work well now. Much more team play involved. Do i have a man less in MF, do they play with wingers, can i play this formation with these players to counter their formation. It's impressive, it's not just lets play 4-3-3 and that's it.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

CapoXBoss said:
I always compared PES and FIFA to Counter Strike and Call of Duty. Counter Strike takes years to even be good at it, while Call of Duty is fun to play, run around, spray your opponents and basically do whatever you please which lacks FUN and realism. Same with PES and FIFA. PES offers a learning curve where you really have to think while playing. FIFA is easy to pick up and younger kids love it. Over the years FIFA was able to get better especially with the gameplay. LOOKING at two games and the gameplay videos, you'd think FIFA plays more realistically and it DOES look more real and that is because of animations and the way players move, but you JUST DONT GET that satisfaction like you do when you play PES.

Speaking of realism SOWS (Sensible World Of Soccer) and 96/97 being the best ever is strongly considered to be the best football game ever made, even to this day. This game is listed as one of the best video games ever made and is in Hall of Fame with games such as Zelda, Final Fantasy etc... and this game wasn't based on graphics, or boots, or anything BUT THE GAMEPLAY. Sure you had 20 foot sliding tackles and lots of other stuff that cant ever happen in real life but the game of football should be ONLY based on one thing. That is GAMEPLAY. If KONAMI want to be on top of again and be untouchable all they have to do is STOP LISTENING to people who complain about graphics, boots and other small petty things and focus STRICTLY on gameplay.
Click to expand...

Very well said my friend
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Northzzz said:
Passing 5ish yards is still a nightmare. I'm not sure how Konami have achieved that this year. I think it's because it takes into account the power input as distance intended. At that range they should just have the speed be automatic and not affected by the users power input. Maybe then the ball wouldn't trickle towards my team-mate because i've merely tapped it meaning it to only go 5 yards, not for it to go that slow.
Click to expand...

I wish the game take better account of the trajectory of your run + the trajectory of the arriving ball, whenever you make a pass. For example, sometimes when I'm running full speed into a dead-on pass, and try to one touch the ball back the same direction, I don't think it's reasonable to be able to send a soft pass back, unless I slow down a bit and absorb some of the weight in the arriving ball.

This applies to other angles of trajectory as well, not only when the pass is dead-on. Say for example I want to send a long ball when running into a strong arriving ball, I should be able to send the ball further with less power compared to a stationery long pass. I'm not feeling that this is implemented.

When passing the ball around the pitch, I feel the power meter is a little confusing when combined with the speed of my player and the speed of my outgoing pass, and the trajectory of my run + trajectory of the arriving ball. Konami's idea of "power meter as distance intended" is sometimes not realistic/intuitive enough. It almost feels like there are either some variables not taken into account, or there are too many variables at work for too few control buttons.

Maybe I need a training mode to get used to this.
 
Last edited:
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

vxcmplx said:
I wish the game take better account of the trajectory of your run + the trajectory of the arriving ball, whenever you make a pass. For example, sometimes when I'm running full speed into a dead-on pass, and try to one touch the ball back the same direction, I don't think it's reasonable to be able to send a soft pass back, unless I slow down a bit and absorb some of the weight in the arriving ball.

This applies to other angles of trajectory as well, not only when the pass is dead-on. Say for example I want to send a long ball when running into a strong arriving ball, I should be able to send the ball further with less power compared to a stationery long pass. I'm not feeling that this is implemented.

When passing the ball around the pitch, I feel the power meter is a little confusing when combined with the speed of my player and the speed of my outgoing pass, and the trajectory of my run + trajectory of the arriving ball. Konami's idea of "power meter as distance intended" is sometimes not realistic/intuitive enough. It almost feels like there are either some variables not taken into account, or there are too many variables at work for too few control buttons.

Maybe I need a training mode to get used to this.
Click to expand...

I have noticed this. Interestingly it does seem to be implemented with shooting, at least some of the time, hitting a shot first time that is rolling towards you gives you noticeably more power if you time the connection properly.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Even in demo 2 problems exist that amount to cheating:

1. Force fields. Sometimes no matter what your defender can't reach the ball that is under the control of the attacker, eventhough it is exposed. The defender then somehow glides around the attacker.

2. Clipping-issues: The CPU tackles me and puts literally their foot through the foot of my player and then touches the ball... No foul!
CPU-attackers sometimes run literally through my defenders as if they were ghosts. I rewatch it in slomo and see how half of the body gets through my defender's body without any physical reaction happening.

3. Players don't react to a loose ball: The CPU gets a heavy touch and you see the ball going a meter away from the CPU-controlled player, your player is nearby and tries to go for the ball. But at the same time the CPU-player starts an animation where he slides towards the ball and wants to shoot it away. But my player is nearer to the ball and his lunging for it normally would make him get the ball before the CPU-player slides in.
But that is not what is happening: My player suddenly hesitates and gets away from the ball allowing the CPU-player to have success!

4. Defenders get pulled from their position to allow for throughball-situations: It's really unbelievable but my CB's don't cover the attacking strikers, they let them have ample space in most dangerous areas and waiting to be outrunned after throughball. And worse, often a throughball comes in to the free striker and the nearby CB-defender gets pulled away to give him even more space.
 
Last edited:
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

henrys hand said:
Even in demo 2 problems exist that amount to cheating:

1. Force fields. Sometimes no matter what your defender can't reach the ball that is under the control of the attacker, eventhough it is exposed. The defender then somehow glides around the attacker.

2. Clipping-issues: The CPU tackles me and puts literally their foot through the foot of my player and then touches the ball... No foul!
CPU-attackers sometimes run literally through my defenders as if they were ghosts. I rewatch it in slomo and see how half of the body gets through my defender's body without any physical reaction happening.

3. Players don't react to a loose ball: The CPU gets a heavy touch and you see the ball going a meter away from the CPU-controlled player, your player is nearby and tries to go for the ball. But at the same time the CPU-player starts an animation where he slides towards the ball and wants to shoot it away. But my player is nearer to the ball and his lunging for it normally would make him get the ball before the CPU-player slides in.
But that is not what is happening: My player suddenly hesitates and gets away from the ball allowing the CPU-player to have success!

4. Defenders get pulled from their position to allow for throughball-situations: It's really unbelievable but my CB's don't cover the attacking strikers, they let them have ample space in most dangerous areas and waiting to be outrunned after throughball. And worse, often a throughball comes in to the free striker and the nearby CB-defender gets pulled away to give him even more space.
Click to expand...

I really hope that they dont waste fox engine on just graphics and build proper ai so we dont have to rely on the terrible cheating.
 
Just had two goes of demo 2. Both I was Barca v Juve.
Drew 0-0 and 1-1. Two great games.
I'll download the FIFA demo tomorrow out of curiosity but pes13 is gonna take some beating this year.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Control is another issue. Konami promised us that we would have total control over the players. But we don't: Off the ball the control is most of the time not in our hand, with players running automatically. Just try it: You can let go of the run-button and your player will run nonetheless.
And there are a lot of instances when rails are in action and you can't change direction or anything without using supercancel.

On the ball it is better as you have more control.

But I wished we would have such a control for off-the-ball-situations as well, I mean after all we want to play the game, so when the cursor is on a player I want to decide his speed, direction, angle. It's ok when a rail kicks in but when the cursor in on the player, let's say after two seconds, the control should be totally in our hand.

The other thing is speed: It's great that the demo 2 now offers full pelt running speed for players, that's what I criticized in demo1 where speed was capped. But without a realtime two-tiered stamina/fatigue-system to balance things out, it's only half the reality.

The ball physics need to be more contextual: The ball has a certain inertia, a certain energy when passed, based on direction and velocity... and this energy needs to be transferred while passing and be calculated correctly depending on the speed and direction of the player... as explained above by vxcmplx.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

henrys hand said:
Even in demo 2 problems exist that amount to cheating:

1. Force fields. Sometimes no matter what your defender can't reach the ball that is under the control of the attacker, eventhough it is exposed. The defender then somehow glides around the attacker.

2. Clipping-issues: The CPU tackles me and puts literally their foot through the foot of my player and then touches the ball... No foul!
CPU-attackers sometimes run literally through my defenders as if they were ghosts. I rewatch it in slomo and see how half of the body gets through my defender's body without any physical reaction happening.

3. Players don't react to a loose ball: The CPU gets a heavy touch and you see the ball going a meter away from the CPU-controlled player, your player is nearby and tries to go for the ball. But at the same time the CPU-player starts an animation where he slides towards the ball and wants to shoot it away. But my player is nearer to the ball and his lunging for it normally would make him get the ball before the CPU-player slides in.
But that is not what is happening: My player suddenly hesitates and gets away from the ball allowing the CPU-player to have success!

4. Defenders get pulled from their position to allow for throughball-situations: It's really unbelievable but my CB's don't cover the attacking strikers, they let them have ample space in most dangerous areas and waiting to be outrunned after throughball. And worse, often a throughball comes in to the free striker and the nearby CB-defender gets pulled away to give him even more space.
Click to expand...

Are you aware that jenkey has a setting in his gameplay tool that adjusts "CPU level"? Here it is, quoted from the thread:


jenkey1002 said:
Enforce AI balance : because KONAMI code alway set AI of HUMAN's side lower than COM's side, if enable this option, it will disable that code and make AI more balance.
AI level slider : for adjustment AI's pressure,
example : change to "+2" the game is become offence game, more movement inside the box ...

Ball speed & shot power are same as last year in gameplay tool.
Click to expand...

I suspect that when you're one or more goals ahead, the game code will adjust the CPU AI level, and it seems like it also affects your team's defensive awareness. Pere Ebu's most recent post in the 2012 thread is more evidence of the game adjusting the CPU level in response to a goal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom