PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

gerd said:
Reading every post in this thread is madness, but if i read all the discussions about demo 1 and demo 2, i know what Konami's problem is (i said the same last year).
Konami are listening too much to the community.

Roughly half of the people prefer demo 1 and the other demo 2...what should a development do with this kind of feed-back?
Click to expand...
Take what each does best and mix it up.
Doubt this is even possible now though, as the game is probably finished so close to release. Very much looking forward to this one.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I must say what Konami did with the animation- and physics-system in demo2 is nothing short of amazing. It nearly feels like a new animation-engine. This is the kind of animation I expected when I saw the Messi-trailer for PES 2011, ok maybe it isn't as good as in that trailer, but trailers are usually a bit better than the ingame-things.

There is a price for that new animation-system: More ice-skating, not nearly as much as in Fifa 10-12, but more than in demo1.

Still, extremely impressive stuff, hadn't expected that.

Shooting-power is more varied in demo2, ie. you need to have good body-balance and positioning to make a really strong shot. This is an improvement over demo1, where it isn't nearly as contextual, but I wished the strong successful shots had that zip of demo1, as they were very satisfactory.

Playerswitching is better in demo2 but still not completely fixed. I would say it's 80% fixed.

Passing has been dumbed down from demo 1, now even zerobar-passing is heavily assisted, and there is no difference between using Real Madrid or Valencia in that regard. Long passes get homed in for the attacker and everyone on the pitch can do these amazing long passes.

Yes, it helps to make the game more consistent but it also takes away required skills and individuality as well as freedom.

While we are at it, individuality in players is reduced compared to demo1. I don't know if that is like the iceskating another price to pay for the awesome new animation/physics-system but in demo1 players felt more real and varied.

In demo 1 the individuality not only affected playerweight, movement... but also ballcontrol, while in demo2 ballcontrol is streamlined and toned down, every player seems to have the same and the ball seems way more glued to the feet under most circumstances which is imho an unwelcome step back.

Gamespeed is considerably leveled up in demo2, but on the other hand it has more differential compared to the flatness of speed and acceleration in demo1.

Verdict: Demo2 has improved massively in the animation/physics-system, really amazing, nearly breathtaking stuff, and shooting (although I miss the zip of demo1 for the strong shots) is more realistic, playerswitching works more reliable.
But because of the way more assisted passing, the toned down ballcontrol, the upped gamespeed and the reduced individuality it feels more arcade and less free, less real than in demo1.

The best scenario I wish Konami would achieve for final release is to take the technological improvements in demo2 and to recreate the realism, gamepace and individuality of demo1 with them, ie. a sort of best-of between the two demos.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

makky said:
Take what each does best and mix it up.
Click to expand...


What each does best? According to who?
You have 125.689 meanings about the game and then Konami should change their game and the result should be that people with 125.689 should be satisfied...this is impossible.

The series got ruïned by a couple of factors:

- Expectations were sky high for current gen after PS and Xbox
- Konami's programmer's clearly had problems to come to grip with PS3 and Xbox 360.
- The first current gen games were bad and on top of that Konami removed content (stadiums for example) where fans expected much more content.
- After 2010 and 2011 (which was IMO a massive step forward although still with huge flaws) Konami lost their self belief and started to listen too much to fans and listening about the wrong things.

IMO developers should never listen to fans about gameplay, never...
They should listen about game modes, and other cosmetical changes, but never about gameplay.

Of course developers should watch out for gameplay reactions but never as in: what do you think about this demo...you never get clear feedback...
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

gerd said:
Reading every post in this thread is madness, but if i read all the discussions about demo 1 and demo 2, i know what Konami's problem is (i said the same last year).
Konami are listening too much to the community.

Roughly half of the people prefer demo 1 and the other demo 2...what should a development do with this kind of feed-back?
Click to expand...
I know its nuts

just give us the game you think it should be and be done with it. If there are serious issues patch it up and do proper QA before releasing it out there. This to and fro and openess to what could be a 5 year olds feedback is dangerous.

I wonder what PES5 would have been if there was so much public involvement. I wont forget how many people maoned about that game for a while after its release.

The company I work for is a massive retailer much like M&S in the UK. We have come t learn how dangerous social media and having the interaction we do on facebook can in a blink of an eye become a total PR disaster. All it takes is for one person to say something in the right way (regardless if its truth or false) and you could have a small spark turn into a raging inferno.

EDIT: Just saw your second post and I agree
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Totally agree Gerd, I think the only thing they should really listen to the community about are game mode ideas, and how to make the game look and feel authentic. But leave the core gameplay to the game designers, that's what they're paid for.

They clearly do need feedback on ML, if anything because their vision on how the mode should be like must vary wildly from what western customers would want, which is a natural thing to happen, but in terms of gameplay, there is too much influence.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

How's the CPU shooting in demo 2?

Find myself getting irritated by the CPU driving forward and aiming a thunderbolt into the bottom corner of my net at a consistently accurate rate in demo 1.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I want demo#2 on PC :(.

I wonder if it's anything like EU version of PES 2013 demo on PS3 or is it more like US version.

God damn it :/.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Ping pong has completely ruined the experience for me so far and it affects not just normal passing but also crossing, through balls and lobbed balls . Lobbed through balls are absolutely overpowered and everyone becomes Özil when performing them. Add the clueless defenders who let balls pass from a foot around them...or sometimes through their legs /facepalm
I'm gonna rent this game first and unless Konami fix these ongoing issues they can forget about my hard-earned cash. Konami have improved PES a lot since last year but still there are far too many gamebreaking stuff left in the game. Also players look all the same and player personality is as bad as PES 2012. Such a shame because Konami have put effort into this title but it just hasn't been enough.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

AntrAcsA said:
All this fients , trick are part from Real football, there is hole series in youtube " VIVA FOOTBALL " ! Every one of professional football players can do it ! The simulation come from the balance much be close to real live ,Konami must found it . And please don't start discussion about PES 2010 .Is one the worst of all PES games for me ... bugs , unbalance ahh is so much problems there ... well , i say please , but if you want ..go ahead
Click to expand...

u must think on a higher level, its not about what they introduce and if this new features were missing
its about how they work and how abusable they are
seing players doing rainbowflicks with keepers is not sim approach mate
simple
seing players doing tricks they cant/never do in real life is not sim approach either
thats just about the feint link system


oh and, so many users here think again that demo 1 is better, so where is the sim approach here?
"less differences between players" and all those points users here are saying again..

playing long high accurate crosses/changeovers with a noname low sideback for the whole game/season with no errors whatsoever is not sim approach either, since pes011(L2)
i cud go on forever..
:p

@gerd
yes, oh fuc.kin yes :applaud:
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

People saying they prefer Demo 1 are perhaps biased, because of the initial impact it caused. We went from one steaming pile of shit PES 2012 to a very promising and fun again to play build of the new PES.
And then the Demo 2 had some unrealistic expectations.

In all fairness, I just dislike the fact that user controlled defenders became worse to control, and the R2 shot, while still curls beautifully, has become at bit floaty.

But all the rest seems an improvement, the game seems more mature and accomplished than Demo 1. I forgot to mention that player switching is way better now (dare I say they fixed it, because I didn't encounter problems so far).

The pass finally has the right weight to it and sometimes you can overhit it if you're not careful enough. It goes for manual passing too, much better on Demo 2.

As for goalkeepers, they deflect the ball in a much better way now. In Demo 1 I got many glitchy punches from crosses and so forth. Also, keepers throws are much better and less floaty now.

I just hope Konami gets rid of ice skating and makes our defenders a bit more effective again, by doing the following:
1) getting rid of the ice-skating effect
2) not overpowering any Average Joe to do Messi-like stops and turns
3) making physique a massive factor again, adjusting the collision and sense of body mass closer to what we saw on Demo 1

But overall Demo 2 is a very decent build and the good news is that it is quite addictive! I felt like I could play non-stop for hours and hours glued to my couch, not wanting to get up to drink, eat or pee, just like in the old days when I'd pee through a catheter if I could, just to keep on playing more! haha :D
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Rentboy said:
People saying they prefer Demo 1 are perhaps biased, because of the initial impact it caused. We went from one steaming pile of shit PES 2012 to a very promising and fun again to play build of the new PES.
And then the Demo 2 had some unrealistic expectations.

In all fairness, I just dislike the fact that user controlled defenders became worse to control, and the R2 shot, while still curls beautifully, has become at bit floaty.

But all the rest seems an improvement, the game seems more mature and accomplished than Demo 1. I forgot to mention that player switching is way better now (dare I say they fixed it, because I didn't encounter problems so far).

The pass finally has the right weight to it and sometimes you can overhit it if you're not careful enough. It goes for manual passing too, much better on Demo 2.

As for goalkeepers, they deflect the ball in a much better way now. In Demo 1 I got many glitchy punches from crosses and so forth. Also, keepers throws are much better and less floaty now.

I just hope Konami gets rid of ice skating and makes our defenders a bit more effective again, by doing the following:
1) getting rid of the ice-skating effect
2) not overpowering any Average Joe to do Messi-like stops and turns
3) making physique a massive factor again, adjusting the collision and sense of body mass closer to what we saw on Demo 1

But overall Demo 2 is a very decent build and the good news is that it is quite addictive! I felt like I could play non-stop for hours and hours glued to my couch, not wanting to get up to drink, eat or pee, just like in the old days when I'd pee through a catheter if I could, just to keep on playing more! haha :D
Click to expand...

Not biased at all, as I kept going back and forth between the 2 demos, 3 games here then 3 games there and rinse repeat. Every time I switch to demo 2 I just cannot help but feel 2012 crawling back again. A few games then back to demo 1 and that 2012 feeling is gone. Back to demo 2 and it crawls back. Ugh. :ANX:
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Lami said:
Not biased at all, as I kept going back and forth between the 2 demos, 3 games here then 3 games there and rinse repeat. Every time I switch to demo 2 I just cannot help but feel 2012 crawling back again. A few games then back to demo 1 and that 2012 feeling is gone. Back to demo 2 and it crawls back. Ugh. :ANX:
Click to expand...

My sentiments exactly.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Lami said:
Not biased at all, as I kept going back and forth between the 2 demos, 3 games here then 3 games there and rinse repeat. Every time I switch to demo 2 I just cannot help but feel 2012 crawling back again. A few games then back to demo 1 and that 2012 feeling is gone. Back to demo 2 and it crawls back. Ugh. :ANX:
Click to expand...
exactly how I feel.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

You feel that way (pes 2012 feeling) because AI is more aggressive in demo 2, not because it's dumbed down or something.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I still prefer demo 1 for the reasons Lami says, but I've gone and deleted that because frankly we're not going to get that version of the game, so I'm not going to keep going back to it now. I have, however, had a much better time with demo 2 today, in fact I've been having some great matches. All are of course one-sided in terms of possession, that's another thing we'll just have to put up with because it's not going to be corrected, but I altered some of the tactics to experiment and have had a far more enjoyable time with the game.

I was mucking around with altering the team settings and tried altering some of them in an extreme way just to see what would happen, and it's made it far better for me. I tried Bayern and Real Madrid with a deep, compact defence, and my attacking options set to zero for support range and 20 for attacking 'down the middle', and 20 for player switching, and it all feels a lot more dynamic now. I was playing some lovely stuff on this setting, playing short one-twos, laying the ball off then switching the play etc, it's been great. Robben and Ribery now make arcing runs in towards goal because they've been told to be more narrow, which creates tons of space for the full backs and gets the wingers in more as an immediate goal threat.

I'm also getting to grips with the dribbling, especially R2. I did some awesome little maneuvers with top dribblers, whereas I lost one match because Alonso got caught on the ball in a dangerous position thanks to him simply turning on the ball like an oil tanker. That, while not as pronounced as demo 1, I really like, a lot. Shows that there is promise for there being more individuality with lesser players in the full release, who make up the vast majority of the actual full game.

Overall, ML 'boot-gate' aside, I can't wait for this release now.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

aitken said:
YouTube - Sneak Peek - Pro Evolution Soccer 2013 (PES 2013) - Master League Transfer System
Click to expand...

I didn't see any option to play with a default ML team in that video, with the old default players etc. Surely this is still included? Don't know if this has anything to do with the location thing at the start, but surely this is in?

It looks mostly the same as last year, in fact a bit too similar. It has all the same identical cut scenes. Bit lazy that.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

info0 said:
This look dated... :(

And did I see it right? No training tab? O_O

Plus game still limits you to starting 5 transfers? Bloody madness... -.-

And no swapping players + money possible. Guess that was coming.

Ah well.
Click to expand...

Probably no training tab because, like last year, it was included in the 'My Team' section....
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Based on everything I've seen so far I will definitely pick up PES 2013, once the price drops. Other than some improvements that make the gameplay better than PES 2012, I see absolutely no other additions to the package that warrants the full price of admission.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

henrys hand said:
I must say what Konami did with the animation- and physics-system in demo2 is nothing short of amazing. It nearly feels like a new animation-engine. This is the kind of animation I expected when I saw the Messi-trailer for PES 2011, ok maybe it isn't as good as in that trailer, but trailers are usually a bit better than the ingame-things.

There is a price for that new animation-system: More ice-skating, not nearly as much as in Fifa 10-12, but more than in demo1.

Still, extremely impressive stuff, hadn't expected that.

Shooting-power is more varied in demo2, ie. you need to have good body-balance and positioning to make a really strong shot. This is an improvement over demo1, where it isn't nearly as contextual, but I wished the strong successful shots had that zip of demo1, as they were very satisfactory.

Playerswitching is better in demo2 but still not completely fixed. I would say it's 80% fixed.

Passing has been dumbed down from demo 1, now even zerobar-passing is heavily assisted, and there is no difference between using Real Madrid or Valencia in that regard. Long passes get homed in for the attacker and everyone on the pitch can do these amazing long passes.

Yes, it helps to make the game more consistent but it also takes away required skills and individuality as well as freedom.

While we are at it, individuality in players is reduced compared to demo1. I don't know if that is like the iceskating another price to pay for the awesome new animation/physics-system but in demo1 players felt more real and varied.

In demo 1 the individuality not only affected playerweight, movement... but also ballcontrol, while in demo2 ballcontrol is streamlined and toned down, every player seems to have the same and the ball seems way more glued to the feet under most circumstances which is imho an unwelcome step back.

Gamespeed is considerably leveled up in demo2, but on the other hand it has more differential compared to the flatness of speed and acceleration in demo1.

Verdict: Demo2 has improved massively in the animation/physics-system, really amazing, nearly breathtaking stuff, and shooting (although I miss the zip of demo1 for the strong shots) is more realistic, playerswitching works more reliable.
But because of the way more assisted passing, the toned down ballcontrol, the upped gamespeed and the reduced individuality it feels more arcade and less free, less real than in demo1.

The best scenario I wish Konami would achieve for final release is to take the technological improvements in demo2 and to recreate the realism, gamepace and individuality of demo1 with them, ie. a sort of best-of between the two demos.
Click to expand...

yea i totally agree with all of that except

- gamespeed. everyone is saying demo2 is sped up.. i dont feel it? it certainly slowed down for me and plays atg a much better pace.

also for your manual problem, tape down your L2 button so you have full manual passes... much better than crpapy 0 bar. seriouly why cant we just full manual from thbe menu?
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I like Demo 2 alot but the shooting from demo 1 for me. There is no ping pong per say but the tempo of the matches can be a bit insane sometimes since no one walks or stop and everyone is mostly aggressive.
My problems are with the trick moves and how often cpu uses them to perfection (too often too effective). I hate the fact that my GK can do more elasticos than CR7 can do rainbow flicks.
Player switching and awareness to passes and lose balls
The controls for getting in and out of manual GK is absolutely retarded.
 
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