PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Ern Dog said:
Totally agree with needing individual instructions back, the team instructions as they are seem OK to me though. I do miss the indvidual settings, the attacking arrows and defensive settings, you could make some interesting things happen using those. I do appreciate what they are trying to do by not having them but the flexibilty was nice and at times necessary.
I dont play Football Manager, could you elaborate on its tactics system please.
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i genuinely ask, what do you appreciate that they are trying to do by removijg these things?

they are totally removing a huge part of football.

here are some football manager tactic screens from google

Team tactics:

tactic2-1.jpg


individual player tactics:

198033d1318313540-emulating-man-united-2011-12-season-manchester-united-tactics_-player-instructions-.png
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

This whole thread insult our intelligence!

Back to something useful, no official words about release date???? That´s really strange...
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Tim7 said:
I don't care what people think, but for me if all players wear black boots in ML mode from the start and there are random assignments from the CPU players it would ruin my ML. Seems shallow I guess, but for me it just ruins the realism of the whole thing. Hopefully Yair can sort this out or I won't be playing much, if any, ML.
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Well you did post pictures of your pink boots...:P
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Matty_17 said:
i genuinely ask, what do you appreciate that they are trying to do by removijg these things?

they are totally removing a huge part of football.

here are some football manager tactic screens from google
Click to expand...

I appreciate that they are using the AI to dictate the players movements, it gives the players personality and to an extent it works very well.

Those team tactics are not a million miles from what we have, hopefully Konami will progress in that direction.
Not sure I like the individual stuff as much and it goes back to me liking how they have given the players personality. Berbatov is Berbatov, I would not want to go into a menu and turn him into Rooney. I think the ideal situation is what we have now with the players being who they are but have the old individual stuff back to enable a bit of direction and maybe have a stat for how well they take instruction.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Ern Dog said:
Not sure I like the individual stuff as much and it goes back to me liking how they have given the players personality. Berbatov is Berbatov, I would not want to go into a menu and turn him into Rooney. I think the ideal situation is what we have now with the players being who they are but have the old individual stuff back to enable a bit of direction and maybe have a stat for how well they take instruction.
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how would berbatov turn into rooney? berbatov is berbatov because of his stats, just because a manager tells him to play a certain way wont make him turn into another player :ROLL:

also to tie in here is FM's player stats... they also have hidden unchangeable (without the modifier) behaviour stats, so things like temperment, ambition etc.

swpin2.png
 
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Do Konami not realise how bloody stupid they look? drives me mad... the folks at EA Sports must be loving all this stuff, Konami keep shooting themselves not in the foot, but both feet! :S
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I'm with Matty on this one. I'd like the ability to set tactics both on a team and individual level, a mix of old and new in terms of PES. It's a basic element of football management, and PES is a management game of sorts otherwise master league wouldn't be as popular as it is.

Using the old arrows system, you can instruct a player to make forwards runs but that doesn't mean he'll be any good at doing so. His stats will/should have the final say in the end.

As I've said, a dual layered overall and indivdual tactics system should be the goal. It's not about changing the characteristics of a player, more imparting a system on the team which may require certain players to follow specific instructions.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Matty_17 said:
how would berbatov turn into rooney?
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Yeah I read through the thing too quick, it looked like it would effect his stats at first glance. Obviously some of those options would not work in PES because you control the player but a more simplified version would be nice, like I said I'm all for having individual instructions back. Some of those metal attributes would be great in PES, composure & influence especially.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Rentboy said:
As for the boots, you're totally missing the point.
Most of us complaining about it wouldn't give two fucks about what boots players wear in the game. But from the moment we assign some boot and it magically increases +5 in players attributes, that's where I have a problem.

Maybe you don't care about offline Master League, but many of us do.
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sorry about that, it's just that i'm being optimistic and hoping they'll give you the option to include or not this feature in the ML.

if they include this in the MLO i'd be gutted :(
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Matty_17 said:
those options would work for AI teams.
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I see what you're saying but the way I see it is that those options then become part of the players personality and not instructions. Things like mentality, roam from position, closing down and alot of the offensive options make up the players ID. I would not want the AI Berbatov to be chasing my defenders and midfielders round trying to nick the ball, hes a lazy sod, I dont want to seem him not holding up the ball and playing sexy through balls and I dont want to see him try and dribble through 5 or 6 players from the halfway line, thats not Berbatov! The more I think about it the more I like Konamis way, they have the players personality set and then effect them with the team tactics.
 
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So, looks like Adam is taking a break for a bit then. I'm assuming yesterday's 'chat' with Konami didn't go too well.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

sonoman said:
sorry about that, it's just that i'm being optimistic and hoping they'll give you the option to include or not this feature in the ML.

if they include this in the MLO i'd be gutted :(
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Yeah, me too. This thing doesn't make sense in either online or offline. It's like when you assign a ring to your character on Diablo or something :P
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

<3_Pato_<3 said:
holy shit!! if this will be ingame in south american matches then konami rocks!! really!! :SHOCK:
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99% not, maybe only for the final match.
It's indeed a menu background, but the picture looks like from a PES match intro with flares and players coming out, and the fire doesn't look that much photoshopped, but i still very doubt.

I am not clear on this though, since you unlock some of the things for offline ML in online MLO, does that mean player development in MLO, regens, whatever, and all that and does that mean that we also start with black boots in our MLO team and then can also upgrade players somehow? Or do we just unlock those via MLO for ML off usage by, say, winning 5 matches in a row in MLO, or something?
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

What would you like to do that you cant already? To me the game strikes a pretty good balance between players having their own personality and operating as part of a team. If a player doesnt fit with what you are trying to do then sub them, isnt that realisitc also?
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

it's pretty obvious its only a menu screen.. hopefully it'll be an animated one.

i highly doubt they will recreate that in a playable match, but if they did it'd be inmmense!
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Tim7 said:
:LMAO: Oh dear!
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Probably got a mega-bollocking off Konami. I guess they didn't like the negativity from him towards the 'bootsgate affair'.

I don't know, I think PES fans deserve to know the truth about what they are spending their money on, and in that respect Adam has done the right thing. He doesn't deserve rough treatment from Konami, if that is indeed what is happening. Overall I think he has tried his best to help Konami improve PES and this latest debacle is a kick in the teeth for him (and us all).
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Honome said:
This whole thread insult our intelligence!

Back to something useful, no official words about release date???? That´s really strange...
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well this is why all the things went to off topic :D we cant talk about anything regarding the game because we dont know anything about it! :PIG: expect that we'll have diablo boots in it!
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Ern Dog said:
What would you like to do that you cant already? To me the game strikes a pretty good balance between players having their own personality and operating as part of a team. If a player doesnt fit with what you are trying to do then sub them, isnt that realisitc also?
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Hit-nail-head.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Ern Dog said:
I see what you're saying but the way I see it is that those options then become part of the players personality and not instructions. Things like mentality, roam from position, closing down and alot of the offensive options make up the players ID. I would not want the AI Berbatov to be chasing my defenders and midfielders round trying to nick the ball, hes a lazy sod, I dont want to seem him not holding up the ball and playing sexy through balls and I dont want to see him try and dribble through 5 or 6 players from the halfway line, thats not Berbatov! The more I think about it the more I like Konamis way, they have the players personality set and then effect them with the team tactics.
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i dont think you quite grasp the concept... :CONFUSE:

if you instructed berbatov free license to roam then his ABILITIES of movement, anticipation, positioning etc. would determine how well he carries out that instruction.

why would a manager want berbatov to be trying sexy through balls and dribbling through 6 defenders if he is bad at through balls and dribbling ? its an option sure, but if his ABILITES are bad then you don't instruct him to do tasks which relate to them.

you're not going to make john terry your poacher just because its availablein the instructions... because he quite obviously doesnt have the stats/abilities for that role

i think youre completely missing the point...
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Ern Dog said:
What would you like to do that you cant already? To me the game strikes a pretty good balance between players having their own personality and operating as part of a team. If a player doesnt fit with what you are trying to do then sub them, isnt that realisitc also?
Click to expand...

For me it doesnt

The AI is way too limited and 1 dimensional. They do not understand the concept of support. they do not understand to ensure possession is somewhat safe before making forward runs (especially the full backs)
The do no understand the function of their position Hence they are too eager to swap positions and too slow to return to their pre-assigned positions

Strikers dont know when to make runs and drop too deep too often even when i have options to pass to.

Players who cant dribble or run should position them selves tactically. Why does Benzema drop to get the ball from Alonso?

The DM does not understand the need to protect the back for and if often found inline with them sometimes he even drops behind them.

When the opposition enters the crossing area the cb do not man mark instead they are sometimes drawn to the man crossing the ball and most often leave the back post completely free.

Real Madrid's Marcelo and Arsenal's Sagna (Bassically the SBs) is considered a near post options during corners. I f i bring on the Tall CB they cent my mid fielders back to defend. What happened to the system in pes 2008?
2nd defender press often drags out the central player especially those closer to goal

I haven't played the game in 4 days so these are the things i remember off my head.
Basically you cannot emulate real life strategies. No team in the game plays remotely close to their real life counter parts (NONE don't deceive yourself)
All AI teams have the same mentality all that differs is how crowded certain areas get.
The tactics do not allow teams to play to their strengths or utilize their star players and play makers properly.
In the long run the game gets boring quick cos there is no variety and you can stick to the same formation for 9 seasons if you want to.
 
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