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PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

gomito#10 said:
my advice is to stop playing jesus christ man!!!
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No way, eventhough it is frustrating and the feeling of cheating* comes up, it's still better than playing no football-game at all. Fifa 12 unfortunately doesn't offer an inertia/momentum-model and ballcontrol is too good for all players and the AI is too dumb and tactics-menu is way too limited, so with warts and all PES 2012 is currently still the game to be played for those seeking the feeling of football.

PES 2013 will maybe reduce most of the warts within the engine and PES 2014 will offer the new fox-engine and finally and hopefully bring realistic and varied animations to the table.

*Today Ireland made a goal against me while I shot the ball away. The ball reflected from the hand (going towards the ball) of an ireland striker and found its way into the net, of course the referrees saw nothing suspicious. I was 2:1 up at that moment and the game wanted to equalise at all costs, hehe. In order to reduce my frustrations, I just laugh now whenever such cheatings happen.
 
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gomito#10 said:
my advice is to stop playing jesus christ man!!!
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Yep you're right, all data has been deleted and it's up for sale on ebay for a second time.

The final straw really was my last match this morning, a vital bottom of the table clash at home to the mighty PES Utd. I find myself 0-1 down after three minutes from a 30 yard rocket, then yet again the ref blows for a free-kick because my player made any kind of bodily contact with theirs, and they curl it like Beckham into the top corner for 2-0 after 10 minutes. Despite the low stats of the goalscorers, they hammered them in like they were the world's best.

I then spend the next 45 minutes battering away at their defence, finally grab a goal back, then with just five minutes to go I too curl in a free-kick to bring the game back to 2-2. No less than I deserve, the CPU hasn't had a kick since they went 2-0 up, no efforts on goal, no attacks, nothing.

Within about 30 seconds of my levelling it at 2-2, the CPU humps a low, driven, 40 yard through pass, my defence have magically gone wandering and left the striker, all off-screen at the time of the through-ball, about 20 yards in space. He misses the shot, it hits the post, and thinking that it'll rebound safely to one of my four surrounding players all around the goal, it deflects off at a bizarrely acute angle to the one CPU striker way out of goal who then tucks it back in for a 3-2 loss.

I do find it amazing luck that the CPU manages to race into an early 2-0 lead thanks to two amazing long range strikes, even more amazing given this team was bottom of the table with barely any goals scored, then I pin them back and batter the shit out of them all the way until I make it 2-2 with a few minutes to go, then suddenly, and 'coincidentally', the CPU just says 'fuck you' and hits a driven through ball up half the pitch, and my defenders choose that one moment to freak out and go awol.

Anyone who says the game doesn't cheat is clearly just ignoring it. This stuff happens in real football from time to time, but in PES this happens literally ever game I play. Every time I lose it's against the run of play, and the CPU scores at will. Take that last match I played, it gifted itself a 2-0 lead with two unnaturally brilliant long range goals despite the stats of those players, allowed me to hammer the crap out of it, pull it back to 2-2, then it immediately responds with a cheap, bug ridden goal.

But if there's one thing I find the most maddening with this game, it's the refereeing. It's absolutely weighed in the game's favour. The opposition can seemingly barge me all over the park, yet for my players, the ref treats it like a non-contact sport. It's virtually impossible to make any bodily contact without him blowing for a foul against you.

It's truly the worst experience I've ever had with a football game, and good riddance!
 
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I'm sorry you've sold the game LT. I'll miss reading your epic rants about your ML ordeal. Brightened up my day and made me feel I wasn't the only one suffering.

If it's any solace PES United just hammered me 3-1 in a CL group stage game. I wouldn't have minded so much but my team is rated from mid to high 90's in attack,defence etc. And yet I was brushed aside as if my team was nothing more than a Sunday League side.

Damn game.
 
Evil Heat said:
I'm sorry you've sold the game LT. I'll miss reading your epic rants about your ML ordeal. Brightened up my day and made me feel I wasn't the only one suffering.

If it's any solace PES United just hammered me 3-1 in a CL group stage game. I wouldn't have minded so much but my team is rated from mid to high 90's in attack,defence etc. And yet I was brushed aside as if my team was nothing more than a Sunday League side.

Damn game.
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cheating is the first thing we should check when playing the demo

i recently played pes 2012 demo and it's pretty obvious the game gave advantage to cpu in a unrealistic way even in that build. So, the demo could be a good indication about CPU cheating
 
LOL, bloody hell some of you are paranoid.

I got fed up with the game months ago now, but I never felt the CPU was conspiring against me. I keep reading how clinical and ruthless they supposedly are, but even on Top Player I found them hugely wasteful sometimes. Lost count the number of times they'd rashly blase it over the bar, or miss a sitter late-on. If the game was bias toward the CPU then it made it a lot harder then it needed to be....

It's just a case of the mechanics/physics being a bit iffy, so when it goes against you its blatant bias, but when it goes for you its subconsciously never picked up upon.

Beyond a bump in stats for every CPU controlled player, I seriously doubt there's any tendency toward making the game bias toward their win. Certainly never felt any 'scripting' that people have been crying about for as long as I've been playing, and that goes for FIFA as well. I mean, is it seriously suggested that the ball is programmed to bounce favourably to the opposition? Come on now.....
 
dannyfc2 said:
LOL, bloody hell some of you are paranoid.

I got fed up with the game months ago now, but I never felt the CPU was conspiring against me. I keep reading how clinical and ruthless they supposedly are, but even on Top Player I found them hugely wasteful sometimes. Lost count the number of times they'd rashly blase it over the bar, or miss a sitter late-on. If the game was bias toward the CPU then it made it a lot harder then it needed to be....

It's just a case of the mechanics/physics being a bit iffy, so when it goes against you its blatant bias, but when it goes for you its subconsciously never picked up upon.

Beyond a bump in stats for every CPU controlled player, I seriously doubt there's any tendency toward making the game bias toward their win. Certainly never felt any 'scripting' that people have been crying about for as long as I've been playing, and that goes for FIFA as well. I mean, is it seriously suggested that the ball is programmed to bounce favourably to the opposition? Come on now.....
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There is imho most definitely some bias/scripting going on, even on superstar, although less than on top-player. The bias/scripting gets usually going when a goal happens. After that the other team gets boosted, they attack more and the loose balls tend to go to them, deflections go into goal, my own players make mistakes they would normally not do... the goalkeeper becomes worse.... all in order to make a goal happen more likely in order to equalise.

This bias/scripting/momentum also happens sometimes in my favour when I'm trying to equalise.

I think the CPU-AI is not clever enough to offer genuine challenge so that these bias-things are employed. I hope that the AI in next-gen-PES-versions will offer challenging AI that doesn't need any cheating.
 
Started new Club Manager career at Bayern Munchen, sold players I didn't see fit for the style I want to play (sorry, Olic, Tymo and the rest), brought in young guns in Oscar, Lucas, Palmieri and Miyachi.

Playing this game with jenkey Gameplay tool (6.4.5 with Animation boost x1 and new gameplay mode), combined with Firepatch 2.1 and replaced exe with yair25 test7 (1.03).

This game is bloody great now. Every game feels different, AI does some amazing stuff, but I never, ever felt cheated when they scored or found myself that players are unresponsive or something. Stuff happens (and I might say, Neuer is a BEAST as GK!).

Also when you will have money, grab Neymar... This guy scores for fun... (this one is from Santos career I once had, but got frustrated).

That is, of course, if you like to play with real club players... :)

YouTube - PES 2012 - Neymar = awesomness

And now at least, when you hit long ranger... It feels like it has the power... ;) (playing on Reg/Pro depending on mood after work).
 
After so many trials, I think 4-3-1-2 formation is the best for my style. Since I adopted this formation I don't rememeber losing a game! Faster moves and more players are available for passes. But you need skilled players to get the best out of this formation.

Sometimes I feel that certain players are underrated in this game; Thomas Muller is one of them!
 
dannyfc2 said:
LOL, bloody hell some of you are paranoid.

I got fed up with the game months ago now, but I never felt the CPU was conspiring against me. I keep reading how clinical and ruthless they supposedly are, but even on Top Player I found them hugely wasteful sometimes. Lost count the number of times they'd rashly blase it over the bar, or miss a sitter late-on. If the game was bias toward the CPU then it made it a lot harder then it needed to be....

It's just a case of the mechanics/physics being a bit iffy, so when it goes against you its blatant bias, but when it goes for you its subconsciously never picked up upon.

Beyond a bump in stats for every CPU controlled player, I seriously doubt there's any tendency toward making the game bias toward their win. Certainly never felt any 'scripting' that people have been crying about for as long as I've been playing, and that goes for FIFA as well. I mean, is it seriously suggested that the ball is programmed to bounce favourably to the opposition? Come on now.....
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I think during those periods where the CPU seems like it's going into overdrive, deflections and rebounds look like they're falling kindly for the CPU but in truth, if you look at the replays, it's because the CPU makes it's own players anticipate the play far better than your own. Their off the ball positioning and running becomes far superior. By contrast, your players become very static. Now that's technically not the same as the ball being drawn to a player on purpose but the result is the same. Your players stand around while the CPU is all over the park, filling space, anticipating the play etc. It becomes mis-matched in short bursts like that and yeah, the ball does rebound to their players the vast majority of the time.

Is it cheating? Well kind of. The game is trying to replicate periods of pressure where one team gets on top of another. That's fair enough, but they got the balance all wrong.

One perfect example of this that I found was whenever I had a corner that was headed away, it would drop into a kind of no-man's-land 30 yards out where there was always a void of players. I tried altering my formations etc to try and take advantage of this for set pieces but no matter what you do, the CPU will always get to the ball first. It's because it reacts to the situation far more effectively than your players, which really isn't fair.

Yes it does use tricks like this, it's a game after all, not a replication of human behaviour, it needs its tricks and ways of making sure there is a challenge for the gamer. It just got it all wrong this year, those tricks are far too apparent. It's not paranoia, it's just basic game AI showing through. Doesn't make it any less annoying though.

As for not being able to see it, well, there's no way I can argue against that. All I see is match after match where the CPU doesn't get a kick, I score, then magically within minutes the AI springs into life and rips me apart having previously shown no ability to do so whatsoever. Sometimes it's an amazing goal, sometimes it's due to shitty marking from your team, whatever. It does what it needs to get back into the game then retreats back into its shell and lets you dominate the game again. It's so apparent to me anyways.

But while I'm kind of reaching for a reasonable explanation for rebounds, there's no excuse for the refereeing, in my ML it became so apparent that it was weighed in the CPU's favour that it became almost unplayable. I could get flattened, barged over, scythed down, and yet nothing. On the other hand, ANY physical contact, without pushing any commands whatsoever, result in free-kicks all over the place. It's so biased because the CPU is still able to tackle you by just sprinting in and nicking the ball off you as if it were holding A the whole time. That, of course, just doesn't work when the shoe is on the other foot. Really unbalanced.
 
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There is this form of cheating in the game, but this cheating also gets offered for the human controlled team when it is down a goal. Yesterday I was down 1:2 and suddenly rebounds, deflections and loose balls went much more often into the legs of my players than the opponent's.

It seems like the game is programmed to help along whoever needs to equalise, be it CPU or human.

I don't like that.
 
LTFC said:
I think during those periods where the CPU seems like it's going into overdrive, deflections and rebounds look like they're falling kindly for the CPU but in truth, if you look at the replays, it's because the CPU makes it's own players anticipate the play far better than your own
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Yeah thats true enough, most obvious example being dribbling is always infinitely harder than against a human opponent.

Unfortunately I think its just a case of AI being nowhere near complex enough to offer a fair, varied challenge. And thats true of all computer games, but is just more apparent in sports ones. No matter how much improvement is done for PES 13, they'll always become a point where you subconsciously predict the patterns of CPU behaviour thus nullifying any challenge. Meaning the losses may only come from over compensating the CPU and handicapping the user.

The only real solution in the short-term is to offer a comprehensible, fair online system. They butchered it last year with the assist controls, and I see no attempts to rectify it this year sadly.
 
There is another problem besides this equalising-cheating:

Most teams are able to pass like Barcelona, able to string dozens of passes without giving up the ball. Even blind passes to players behind are always perfect.

And I'm playing on zero-assistance.

There should be variation in the precision of passes:

1. Vision should play a role, making a pass to someone the player doesn't see shouldn't be 100% perfect.

2. Under pressure, players should lose their concentration and reduce their vision, depending on stats.

3. Stats should play a bigger role, lowskilled defenders should have more difficulties to keep the ball, dribble and make good passes.
 
There is a bug with the goalkeeper in PES 2012:

When a player of the same team gives the ball back to him and he can't take the ball into the hands, in 8/10 cases it can be predicted to which player he will pass the ball to, usually the one as far to his left as possible.

You can run towards that player and the goalkeeper doesn't adapt and passes the ball there nonetheless and so easily intercept the ball and make a goal.
 
Guys - is it possible to create a custom league? I want to create a league with 10 teams but I can't remember seeing an option to change a league structure. Don't mind if it's only for a league mode and not the Master League.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Guys - is it possible to create a custom league? I want to create a league with 10 teams but I can't remember seeing an option to change a league structure. Don't mind if it's only for a league mode and not the Master League.
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You can do it in Comunity mode.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Forza Italia :P

Konami must have programmed the English defence's AI. All those blocked shots and parking the bus and all...
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The AI is pretty much all like it on superstar level and 1,06 patch mate. With bonus invincible solo dribbling and your defenders not marking attackers on crosses.
 
There is another bug when using sliding to stop attackers, especially visible at sideline. When I slide towards them they automatically try to sidestep it, causing them to push the ball over the sideline.

Another thing:

Last night I had a match where one of my strikers was running into the goal-area and I made a cross from the right midfield, perfectly to him, he is onside, he gets the ball and turns his back toward the goalkeeper and defender to shield the ball.

Then the goalkeeper comes rushing like a train towards my striker who has his back to him, laying down his body sidewide and sliding, throwing down his defender and my striker in one sweep...

in real life football a 100% penalty-decision and red card for the goalkeeper, in the game... simply nothing! :JAY:

PES 2012 is really for masochists!
 
LTFC you are so unbelievably correct in everything you have said, it actually had me in stitches of laughter because everything you said i have experienced. And dryzer i agree with your comments also, brutal, unrelenting and just hard to take im on my third joypad for god's sake!

I have played pro evo, iss etc for the last 12 or so years and have enjoyed them all (more recent ones being more difficult to master) but all enjoyable.

Then there is pro evo 2012......i think you also made a comment saying no matter how mad or angry you get, you are always drawn back into playing it, and im the same.

But come on Konami please read these forums and sort the game out, how can you dominate game after game and lose to a sloppy goal where your keeper just sits down and watches the ball trickle in. Fair enough if that happens....as long as it works at both ends, but no their keeper pulls off wonder saves. Not just that they win 99 per cent of headers, shots are often feeble and pathetic whilst they do 35 yard unstoppable top corner drives and no matter how poor the opposition......they can pass so fluidly its beyond a joke.

I came on to this forum to see if it was just me, but i have noticed (thankfully) that it is a problem with the game, not me!! I am a seasoned pro and a veteran of the iss games, without sounding arrogant im a good player. Won the occasional tournament :)

For all the downsides it is still a great game, and makes winning a match or even scoring a goal so much more enjoyable especialliy in the master league. Shimizu, Palmieri, Cinalton, Ruskin all being great players for me. I just hate the way the computer ai just know everything you are going to do. I am currently 3rd in ML division 2 with Dinamo Zagreb but know im due a run of defeats and no shots on goal.

I tried playing on blimp and it is more enjoyable as i can see the whole pitch and try to make runs off the ball and pass just before my striker is offside, even if im rapid though i still get caught up most of the time :( another annoying thing is when you go for a 50/50 the computer always reacts first, ive won many a tackle 3 or 4 in quick succession but why bother when it just falls straight to their perfectly positioned player, confused.com

Just for the record i am on top player, has anyone experienced it being better on another level, but not too easy as its just boring, but more fun and playable?

One other annoying thing is tackling, how can everytime go near them its a foul i jockey them dont even press x or square to exert pressure, yet they just bundle me off the ball, so frustrating! and then they score the majority of free kicks, no matter how technically poor the player.....goal.

I play it on ps3, also has anyone bought a player in Master League it just seems impossible even players unheard of at fake teams, i cant even sign uzbekistan players! and as for the training, flaws like mad constantly going down.....i got speed up to 80-odd but the rest were 50's.

I still and always will love pro evo. Please 2013 be back to your very best :)
 
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issforever said:
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One other annoying thing is tackling, how can everytime go near them its a foul i jockey them dont even press x or square to exert pressure, yet they just bundle me off the ball, so frustrating! and then they score the majority of free kicks, no matter how technically poor the player.....goal.
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All CPU-teams can pass like Barcelona, the CPU also reads your inputs and reacts accordingly and when it is down a goal all the loose balls go to them and their players position themselves better while your own get dumbed down...

All of these little bias-things are there to help the CPU to put up a challenge for us. It's unnerving, I don't like it.

Sometimes though the bias is on your side when you need to equalise.

And sometimes when the CPU thinks a certain team should win and a certain team lose, you can have all the good opportunities and you won't make the goal, the goalkeeper of them becomes better, you hit the metal... or even worse: I hit the metal with a shot, the ball reflected and came to one of my strikers who is absolutely free, the goal is open, the goalkeeper is lying on the ground, he just needs to easily dip the ball in with his head... What does he do? He pushes the ball too high and misses the open goal!

All of this nonesense and more is in the game and yet I play it, cause the feeling while I'm playing is there, the build-up, the defending, it's all there and it makes fun, it's just the scoring of goals that gets messed up by cheating.

But regarding your freekick-problem, I have a 90%-cure for it: Select the goalkeeper and position him in the middle of the goal and then deselect him, now your goalkeeper will be much more able to prevent the goal.

The CPU though will find other ways to make its goals, with legitimate and illegitimate means:P.
 
Ok, When I boot up PES 2012 on PS3, it also changes my resolution which is causing the tearing. Is there a way to prevent this?
 
henrys hand said:
But regarding your freekick-problem, I have a 90%-cure for it: Select the goalkeeper and position him in the middle of the goal and then deselect him, now your goalkeeper will be much more able to prevent the goal.
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Thanks ive never tried that but will now :)

Ive just won 4 drawn 2 lost 0 with Zagreb im top of ML 2 (for now)!
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
That new option file from Daymos and the boys is superb. Xbox 360 all the way haha
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Thanks for the suggestion. Tried daymos v4 on xbox360. Incredibly easy to install, just drag and drop, took me about 2 minutes, fantastic and the kits look nice.

Since it's the first time for me to use such an option-file-patch it really brings new life to my PES 2012-gaming, finally Bundesliga and premier league in PES 2012 and all the formation- and stats-updates and the correct names in the national teams, and yellow kit for Brazil... Just awesome:APPLAUD:!
 
I couldn't sell PES for anything near worth selling for, so I'm keeping it. No more rants about the AI, promise! :)

I've downloaded that Daymos option file and it's fantastic, all the kits look great, but it's actually too comprehensive for me personally, as odd as that sounds. Mine includes the German league and also the Championship taking up the Division 2 and PES League slots, but the problem is that my ML game with Benfica in the Portuguese league now contains Div2 full of English Championship clubs. I don't really like having Blackpool in my Portuguese ML!

I wish there was a way to keep everything except the stadiums and revert Div2 back to normal. All I'd really want is English Premier League and Portuguese League kits, and the rest the same as before to be honest.
 
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