PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[henrys hand]

defending against free kicks is a pice of cake. manually select the keeper, move it a bit to the centre and deselect.

I played a bit of pes10 last nite, awsome visuals and the 3d sense of players is fantastic. how come we got that visualshite and 0 3d feeling in pes 2012? player models also got much smaller (hence the feeling the pitch is actually bigger).

i do have high hopes for pes 2013, 10 years after their master piece pes3...might be some symbolic connection between the 2!

Manually selecting the goalkeeper? I should look up how to do that on xbox360-pad, thanks for the suggestion.

As to the visual aspects of PES 2012, I guess the playermodels of PES 2010 and PES 2011, that are imho superior, had to be changed to allow for smoother animation.

The rest of the visuals probably got worse in order to allow more CPU-power for the new AI.

I increased the brightness for the nightgames for 2 points and it looks a bit less poor.

 

[Observer_]

can anyone please elaborate on the use of L2 manual passing and volley on offense?

I have been experimenting with lately, and it did open the game a lot for me. I use it in a situation in which I would like to pass to my forward when the path is blocked with opponent's players.

What are the best situations you use it?

Cheers

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Think im done with PES again, The animations are just killing it for me they are totally destroying the immersion. Running down the wing with Robben cut back inside and cross the ball and the animation is atrocious some weird kind of toe poke with the ball going in some weird trajectory that doesn't match up to the cross animation. 2013 they seriously need to sort these animations out!!!!

 

[P34SEMM]

Think im done with PES again, The animations are just killing it for me they are totally destroying the immersion. Running down the wing with Robben cut back inside and cross the ball and the animations is atrocious some weird kind of toe poke with the ball going in some weird trajectory that doesn't match up to the cross animation.

I know what you mean.
Really hate the animation when you passing the ball 3 yards and the player will do the action of someone about to smash the ball 100mph but the ball just trickles to team mate. Really shite that.

 

[zeemeister]

Wow Patch 1.06 has changed this game a lot. Ok I haven't played online for a while. The passing and shooting is much different now. Unassisted passing is brutally hard and shooting much more refined.

 

[Lami]

Wow Patch 1.06 has changed this game a lot. Ok I haven't played online for a while. The passing and shooting is much different now. Unassisted passing is brutally hard and shooting much more refined.

Thanks for confirming we're not hallucinating...

 

[Pere Ubu]

Yeah, it's very different. I'm amazed that some people think it's a placebo.

It's not that the whole game's been transformed or anything, just that certain things now happen which never used to, and certain things which used to work now don't. For me it's a massive improvement in single player, not so sure about 1v1 yet.

Games against the computer have been much less frustrating, although there does now seem to be a "sweet spot" for shooting, which isn't great (although to be fair, if you have space in that part of the pitch you should probably score anyway, or at least hit the target). But shooting as a whole is very different, easier but more satisfying in that you can actually aim properly without having to go "full north" or "full south" on the stick, which was real d-pad rubbish. The computer is slightly less direct, as well - I had a game the other night where they were 1-0 up and passed between their midfield and defence for a whole minute of game time. That would NEVER have happened before. I mean, it hasn't happened since, but...

I've found that online, though (and I'm talking about PEEL here, no idea what it's like in the lobbies) games seem to be a little bit lumpy and less fluid. Much harder to string passes together, and even less space to work in when you've got a human opponent. You can still have magnificent games, but a few more of them are playing out like a bad League Two clash these days. Then again, it always takes me a while to get used to a new patch, so it'll probably seem fine in a couple of weeks.

But yeah, there are definite changes, and even if people haven't picked up on the gameplay stuff I'm surprised they haven't seen the visual evidence. The Gordon Banks-style tip-the-low-shot-over-the-bar thing wasn't there before, and it is now; shots very rarely used to really curl just wide of the post, and now they do all the time. Players on the line react much better to goalmouth scrambles (rather than bundling the ball into their own goal without you pressing anything, every time) and there are also a few annoyingly repetitive things which happen over and over again in certain situations, which I won't list because it's better not to notice them, but they're new as well. And at least they're better than the old things which used to happen in those situations.

Oh yeah - and overhit crosses.

 

[Deluxe]

After 1.06 i Played a lot of matches vs CPU and Friends, there's a little taste that bringed back the addiction to this game.
Is like this latest patch is a kind of signal that this time konami will do the things right on PES 2013.
After all this black years, this time i see a little light of hope.

*Sorry of my Eng

 

[ccshopland]

Think im done with PES again, The animations are just killing it for me they are totally destroying the immersion. Running down the wing with Robben cut back inside and cross the ball and the animation is atrocious some weird kind of toe poke with the ball going in some weird trajectory that doesn't match up to the cross animation. 2013 they seriously need to sort these animations out!!!!

I agree in part, that animations are quite important. But every time I get down about animations, and generally down on PES, I stick FIFA in the drive, and it becomes apparent after about two games that PES blows it out of the water. For me now, I've only got to look at the weight/momentum/inertia lacking and the overly fast slow dribble speed, and that's without even going into general gameplay, flow, CPU varied build up, attacking and defensive AI, virtually endless variety of goals etc etc, to see that FIFA, even now, is just so far behind PES in my book.

 

[Thespeedster84]

Yup, got my PES 2012 and FIFA 12 on pc both with updated gameplay patch...

Tbh, i only switch to fifa if i want to specifically enjoy the animation.. It is good but to enjoy more than 3 matches continuously.. I favour PES.. It's just more fun.. like those rebound long range shooting in PES

 

[P34SEMM]

I agree in part, that animations are quite important. But every time I get down about animations, and generally down on PES, I stick FIFA in the drive, and it becomes apparent after about two games that PES blows it out of the water. For me now, I've only got to look at the weight/momentum/inertia lacking and the overly fast slow dribble speed, and that's without even going into general gameplay, flow, CPU varied build up, attacking and defensive AI, virtually endless variety of goals etc etc, to see that FIFA, even now, is just so far behind PES in my book.

Wrong.

Both games are shit.

 

[Lami]

Wrong.

Both games are shit.

Spoiler

 

[xPJRx]

Wrong.

Both games are shit.

PES12 is far from shit. Winner of most self obsessed post of the year award.

 

[henrys hand]

PES 2012 is now actually pretty good, patch 1.03 especially patch 1.06 considerably improved the game. It took seven months but now it is in a state it should have been on day 1.

There are still some little annoyances like the catch-up-bug or playerswitching-issues though.

Fifa 12 has good ballphysics, good shooting, great goalkeepers, nice animation and nice looking nightgames, but fundamental football-aspects are not fulfilled:

1. Ballcontrol is too good for every player and every situation.
2. Inertia- and momentum-model missing.
3. Static AI.

PES 2012 might look poor, but regarding the football-aspects it is imho miles in front of Fifa 12.

Fifa 13 might change that though, we will have to wait and see.

 

[P34SEMM]

PES12 is far from shit. Winner of most self obsessed post of the year award.

touchy. get an early night.

Both games are poor. But PES needs far more working on that Fifa.
The graphics/animations are ZX Spectrum days. I dont expect to see players feet morph through the ball, Keepers walk through posts, When players celebrate they morph into each other and when they jump on the ad boards their feet vanish.

The crossing and corners are fantastic Ill say that much.

But both games dont have me wanting that 1 more game feeling. 2 or 3 games and thats enough for me. Maybe Im getting too old for gaming now but before I wanted to play pes 24/7.

 

[Keith Houchen]

I was having overhit crosses from 1.00 onward. I was seeing variations in shooting and passing from one session to another from the start as well. I watched new animations that I'd never seen before appear before my eyes and disappear again. In time all things will vanish, like tears in rain.

I'm still refusing to go along with the 'everything has changed in 1.06' bandwagon, irresistible though the peer pressure may be.

To believe it, I'd have to see the changes myself (I don't), OR accept that Konami could make wholesale gameplay changes to their flagship football title and not have told anyone about the changes. No detailed patch notes, in flagrant breach with common accepted practice, worldwide, across all software developers? I don't buy it. I really, really don't buy it.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I agree in part, that animations are quite important. But every time I get down about animations, and generally down on PES, I stick FIFA in the drive, and it becomes apparent after about two games that PES blows it out of the water. For me now, I've only got to look at the weight/momentum/inertia lacking and the overly fast slow dribble speed, and that's without even going into general gameplay, flow, CPU varied build up, attacking and defensive AI, virtually endless variety of goals etc etc, to see that FIFA, even now, is just so far behind PES in my book.

After the last old firm we tried playing both games like we do most old firms afterwards which usually result in 5 or 6 hour footy sessions (has been Fifa this gen, PES last gen) Put PES on first and my mates hated it even though all were PES players back in the day, we managed 2 games, Put Fifa on and that didnt last long either 3 or 4 games maybe and that was enough.

EA seem to have lost their way this year and tried to hard to make it a full sim which has resulted in the fun being lost, Konami seem to want to make a brilliant game but i really dont think they have the skills, PES 2012 is their 6th game on nxt-gen and i feel the animations and gameplay were better on PES 5 & 6.

Sad state of affairs for football games imo, Konami seem to think they are right on the ball this year but dont they every year? Murphy just tweeted this

Jon Murphy ‏ @JonMurphy_PES
#PES2013Brazil in rehearsals for the event. Footage looks great

EA are very quiet on Fifa 13

 

[xPJRx]

touchy. get an early night.

Both games are poor. But PES needs far more working on that Fifa.
The graphics/animations are ZX Spectrum days. I dont expect to see players feet morph through the ball, Keepers walk through posts, When players celebrate they morph into each other and when they jump on the ad boards their feet vanish.

The crossing and corners are fantastic Ill say that much.

But both games dont have me wanting that 1 more game feeling. 2 or 3 games and thats enough for me. Maybe Im getting too old for gaming now but before I wanted to play pes 24/7.

Im 33 Mate, i dont really need you to tell me what time i should go to bed.
ZX Spectrum days!?!? really? its comments like that one that really does devalue anything of sense you may have said.
SO PES has a colour pallette of 6 colours? and can only render gfx equivalent of a 128k processor? get real.

As for the morphing issues, no one ever said PES was perfect but if a players foot dissapearing slightly when he jumps on a adboard during a goal celebration, which has nothing at all to do with actual gameplay really bothers you THAT much then you obviously lead a very charmed life.
Im not here to argue with you, your a fellow Liverpool supporter so you must be a decent guy, but some of your comments are pretty ridiculous.

 

[ccshopland]

Yeah agree with this ^.

Listen, we all know about PES' problems, and when you leap from one game to the other the issues are glaring. I love FIFA's passing. I love the whipped fast cross field FIFA ball. I love the way the players have weight and the animations in turning (your players, when you stop and come back on yourself). I love the shooting.

BUT - and this is a BIG BUT - for me anyway, FIFA plays stunningly right up until the point that it descends into absolute anarchy, with shitty CPU gameplay, shitty scripted 45/90 minute goals, and just a total and utter disregard for universal laws of physics and player stats. The ball never feels loose, instead always dropping to the CPU. Player response to loose balls is laughable. Just when I feel I have turned a corner with FIFA, just when my attacking build up feels nice, and just when the game is getting interesting, something abhorrent happens which makes me just turn it off in disgust. I had a game earlier which highlighted EVERYTHING wrong in FIFA in one concise game. Inertia/momentum/weight issues, CPU lightening response and just seemingly random speed boosts and strength, CPU 45 minute AND 90 minute cheat scripting, total disregard for player stats, and stats boosts for LINCOLN F'KIN CITY. I just feel, defensively, like I am always grappling with the controller, it's as if the game is designed to make defending as pathetically unresponsive as possible.

Now onto PES. It's frustrating at times. It really is. But the actual gameplay tussle between you and the CPU is on a different level to FIFA, in terms of everything. Technically, it is miles better. I agree though, when you go from FIFA to PES, it highlights just how far PES are behind in CERTAIN areas. BUT, the core gameplay fundamentals are there I believe, they just need to be shaped and implemented better in some aspects.

But for people to hold FIFA up on this pedestal, lol, I'l sorry, it really isn't that great a game, everything considered.

Now the best bits of both games....well we'll be getting somewhere close to an excellent football game then.

 

[Lami]

i really can't play more than 2/3 games in row neither in fifa nor in pes. So i'd say i am not particularly happy with neither game.
He has a point.

He might have a point, but his point is not fact.

 

[Lami]

EA seem to have lost their way this year and tried to hard to make it a full sim which has resulted in the fun being lost

Fun lost because EA tried to make Fifa a full sim? So you're implying Fifa 12 is almost a full sim now? There's still so much to be implemented into Fifa to even consider "trying" to make it a sim. There's a long list of things that are missing and we've been asking for years to be included yet they are still ignored to this day. Fifa is still fun imo, but sim? Inertia? Momentum? Stats? AI? etc. I don't think they're even trying. They're more concerned with things like realistic faces than realistic gameplay. I hope that changes.

 

[xPJRx]

I think FIFA12 is probably the best FIFA yet but its certainly not realistic.
Watch any youtube video of FIFA goals, youll struggle to find one that doesnt contain 1,345 skill moves leading up to every goal.
EA's business plan is simple, maximise profits through Online. Mass Market appeal.
The Offline modes are a poor cousin in EA's eyes, as long as they can get 5 million spotty gamer-rage teenagers paying for ultimate team packs and playing online then they are happy.
There will never be a Master league rich style career mode in FIFA because to support that long term the game would need a different engine, and the current engine works for online, thats all that matters.

 

[Pere Ubu]

I was having overhit crosses from 1.00 onward. I was seeing variations in shooting and passing from one session to another from the start as well. I watched new animations that I'd never seen before appear before my eyes and disappear again. In time all things will vanish, like tears in rain.

I'm still refusing to go along with the 'everything has changed in 1.06' bandwagon, irresistible though the peer pressure may be.

To believe it, I'd have to see the changes myself (I don't), OR accept that Konami could make wholesale gameplay changes to their flagship football title and not have told anyone about the changes. No detailed patch notes, in flagrant breach with common accepted practice, worldwide, across all software developers? I don't buy it. I really, really don't buy it.

Konami and detailed patch notes?? All we ever get is a couple of vague sentences. That's what we got this time, wasn't it - "increase fluidity in various game modes" or some bullshit.

I'm not suggesting they've made huge changes. Just a few little ones which have a minor but very noticeable effect on the overall feel of the game. It was a patch, not just a DLC. Yes, people convince themselves of many strange things when it comes to PES, but I don't think it's odd to look at the game and think "I keep seeing lots of stuff happening which didn't happen before... in particular situations THIS always happens where something else always used to happen, and the effect is repeatable... playing against the computer I'm suddenly conceding a quarter as many goals because the opposition players don't turn into a turbo-charged Messi whenever I go near them... I haven't missed a penalty into the top corner since last year, now I'm regularly hitting the bar and sending them over with exactly the same controller input... hmm, maybe that last patch made some changes to the gameplay, like the patches which came before."

I've played two friends in the past week who've complained that their game has gone to pieces somewhat, because for some reason everything feels "slightly different". I remind them that there's been a patch. "Oh yeah, I forgot all about that."

I've seen plenty of placebos come and go in the PESosphere. I don't think this is one of them. But hey.

 

[xPJRx]

Konami and detailed patch notes?? All we ever get is a couple of vague sentences. That's what we got this time, wasn't it - "increase fluidity in various game modes" or some bullshit.

I'm not suggesting they've made huge changes. Just a few little ones which have a minor but very noticeable effect on the overall feel of the game. It was a patch, not just a DLC. Yes, people convince themselves of many strange things when it comes to PES, but I don't think it's odd to look at the game and think "I keep seeing lots of stuff happening which didn't happen before... in particular situations THIS always happens where something else always used to happen, and the effect is repeatable... playing against the computer I'm suddenly conceding a quarter as many goals because the opposition players don't turn into a turbo-charged Messi whenever I go near them... I haven't missed a penalty into the top corner since last year, now I'm regularly hitting the bar and sending them over with exactly the same controller input... hmm, maybe that last patch made some changes to the gameplay, like the patches which came before."

I've played two friends in the past week who've complained that their game has gone to pieces somewhat, because for some reason everything feels "slightly different". I remind them that there's been a patch. "Oh yeah, I forgot all about that."

I've seen plenty of placebos come and go in the PESosphere. I don't think this is one of them. But hey.

This kind of debate will rage on forever unless Konami start becoming a bit more transparent and release detailed patch notes.
I cant think of any developer/software vendor that makes a change and does not document it.
There must be an internal developer change control list, just publish it. not difficult.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Fun lost because EA tried to make Fifa a full sim? So you're implying Fifa 12 is almost a full sim now? There's still so much to be implemented into Fifa to even consider "trying" to make it a sim. There's a long list of things that are missing and we've been asking for years to be included yet they are still ignored to this day. Fifa is still fun imo, but sim? Inertia? Momentum? Stats? AI? etc. I don't think they're even trying. They're more concerned with things like realistic faces than realistic gameplay. I hope that changes.

No, they tried to make it a full sim and failed so in doing so the fun from previous Fifa games (08,09 WC and 11) was lost.

This is why PES is more fun to play than Fifa this year because it's a quirky football game that doesnt take itself too seriously and slaps itself right in the middle of realism and arcade style fun. If only it had animations, graphics and sound from the standard of games from say...2009? It would be such an enjoyable football title for a full year.

 

[henrys hand]

No, they tried to make it a full sim and failed so in doing so the fun from previous Fifa games (08,09 WC and 11) was lost.

This is why PES is more fun to play than Fifa this year because it's a quirky football game that doesnt take itself too seriously and slaps itself right in the middle of realism and arcade style fun. If only it had animations, graphics and sound from the standard of games from say...2009? It would be such an enjoyable football title for a full year.

Sorry, but I disagree wholeheartedly. I played Fifa 12 for about three-four months and I played PES 2012 for about 3-4 months. PES 2012 is far more a simulation than Fifa 12, it's very serious and hard. It's only easy and fun when playing with strong teams against considerably weaker teams or when playing exhibitions, which take out the competition-aspect.

But in the singleplayer-modi (be it leagues, tournaments or whatever) between somewhat equally strong teams or the CPU-team is stronger and you have a brutal game before you to win it on top-player or superstar. You need to be concentrated to the max and play some real football with real tactics to achieve a victory.

That's why a lot of people cry that the game would be cheating in the single-player-modi, which I also did until I learned how to play the game, ie. to play it like real-life-football.

Nonetheless as much as PES 2012 is much more of a simulation than Fifa 12 and therefore for football-fans the better choice, in the area of gameproduction PES 2012 is trailing Fifa 12. Things like player-reaction, playerswitching, animation, ballphysics, shooting and goalkeeper are better done by EA.

Especially the lacking player-reaction when the cursor is not on them is the thing that is making PES 2012 less fun to play than PES 5 for example. Back in the PS2-times, players seemed alive and reactive, when there is a loose ball they have that energy and will to go for it without questioning. This is the thing that needs the most improvement for PES 2013, playerreaction, awareness regarding the ball and situation especially when the cursor is not on the player, they should feel alive and interested.

If Konami can achieve that within the engine of PES 2012, great! If not, then the nextgen-PES next year will have to do it.

 

[henrys hand]

This kind of debate will rage on forever unless Konami start becoming a bit more transparent and release detailed patch notes.
I cant think of any developer/software vendor that makes a change and does not document it.
There must be an internal developer change control list, just publish it. not difficult.

For me the best aspect of the 1.06 patch compared to 1.00 is the removal of the cheating on superstar-level, the second-best is the much better goalkeeper regarding saving (positioning is still a problem though) and the third-best is the much better player-weight and body-block-abilities regarding the ball.

The game on superstar is now fair but ultrahard because mistakes and bad tactics get punished severely, in that sense it is very realistic.

 

[makky]

Wow Patch 1.06 has changed this game a lot. Ok I haven't played online for a while. The passing and shooting is much different now. Unassisted passing is brutally hard and shooting much more refined.

Try telling that to Mr.6699 Zee .

 

[zeemeister]

Yeah see those crazy scores on PeEL from well tbh pretty plain players from my experience. PES2012 is still to rewarding to the deep defence and 3 upfront approach. Very seldom will you see that 6 goals where scored from high possession and goals built through the middle. You will see lots of crosses, balls stolen from defenders and those god awful player select corners that IMO needs to be fixed or banished from PES in future. Its one thing to select a player and put him into space but usimg the function to drag defenders away and the way the ball is magnetized to the runner is stupid.

 

[makky]

Yeah see those crazy scores on PeEL from well tbh pretty plain players from my experience. PES2012 is still to rewarding to the deep defence and 3 upfront approach. Very seldom will you see that 6 goals where scored from high possession and goals built through the middle. You will see lots of crosses, balls stolen from defenders and those god awful player select corners that IMO needs to be fixed or banished from PES in future. Its one thing to select a player and put him into space but usimg the function to drag defenders away and the way the ball is magnetized to the runner is stupid.

Couldn't agree more.