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PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Hahaha that sounds brilliant!

Rodelero - did you check that CB positioning issue against variables such as whether offside trap was set in the tactics and/or form arrows? Wouldn't mind seeing if and how they impact it.

I'll be watching two Champions League replays tonight so I have to try and sneak in some PES demo (if it's available in Australia tonight).
 
It's a strange one. It doesn't actually do me in very much - but it is disappointing that it's still there in the second demo - fingers crossed that it improves for final code or in a patch.

I'm quite happy with how the dribbling is working for the human now - I think the CPU is still a tad OTT with it though - and defending could still do with a little more tweaking - but it's closer than it was by a fair margin.

Final thought - going to swear off playing it for a few hours at least - on the dribbling errors. I'm not sure whether this is an intentional part of the game or not - but if it is it really is stepping into untouched territory because we're no longer talking elephant touches we're talking misdirected ones. Either way, I'm not happy with how often it happens for no apparent reason - but I wouldn't say no to this innovation if that's what it is. Can't wait to hear your impressions once you get your hands on it by the way - a shedload of improvements and some real food for thought.
 
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I really have no way of recording satisfactorily I'm afraid. You'll see it when you play :)

I can't ****ing wait to play this game against friends. 2v2 will be.. ungh.. unghghgg.
 
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sincover said:
Sudden bursts of speed is an elementary skill that almost all footballers learn. The 'burst' move is balanced by the fact the it is easily countered by good positioning and jockeying (all other things being equal). Keep in mind that a poorly timed challenge can ruin even the most valiant effort because a speed burst after a mistimed tackle will surely leave you in the dust. In my opinion it is as fairly balanced as it can be right now. Defending well in PES 2012 really illustrates how defenders are the real heroes of the sport.
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Yes, I do understand how "burst" works in real life football, I do believe it is something that PES has failed to replicate well in past games.

What I can't understand is, WE series is one of the pioneers in letting the player run at multiple speeds, and this is a very good representation of players changing speed at will to wrong foot the opposing defender.

However, what I have problem with, is that instead of mapping burst to say, pressing R1 with a direction while you are not running at top speed, "burst" is a move that you can execute while you are using R1 run, which is supposedly your player's top speed.

The reason why burst work in real life is due to human reaction and the body physics involved in turning around vs accelerating forward, on top of players using their bodies to their advantage. It is not because a player is running beyond his maximum speed from a stand still.

I guess I just do not understand why the burst speed stat is a different stat rather than using the acceleration. A "burst" in real life is a player knocking the ball into space behind the defender and using his max running speed to outpace the opponent as opposed to his dribbling speed. I see nothing wrong with burst if this is how PES2012 implements it.

Yet burst is a separate stat on top of acceleration and top speed, and burst can be used even when you are at maximum dribbling speed. Why can't burst simply be a skill where you knock the ball into space instead of a speed tweak for the ball carrier. We all know that jockey speed is definitely not as fast as a bursting player, and demo1 demonstrates that the body physics is virtually completely ignored in a bursting past a defender situation.

To summarize, I do not think there should be a burst stat on top of dribbling speed, acceleration, and top speed. "Bursting" should be consisted of kicking the ball into space to take advantage of a player's acceleration and top speed as opposed to his dribbling speed. This will require Konami to change the way dribbling works, such as how far the ball travels with each touch as the player's speed increases, and probably tweak the speed difference between dribble speed and top speed. It seems more logical to me that way rather than simply an offensive speed boost.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Did you see Pato's goal for Milan? That was a burst.

It has to do with acceleration and it's used to get away from a player into free space. You wouldn't run at top speed to intercept a pass normally because if you cut the ball off you need some time to slow down/stop.

I know where you're coming from but a burst of acceleration doesn't necessarily beat someone because the top speed is being tinkered with - more to do with the defender being flat footed to an extent when someone goes past them.

I'm not saying it's perfectly represented on the game but I think it's ok.

Someone please step in with other views though if I'm way off?
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I don't agree with the statement that people don't run full sprint to intercept a pass. Well, it's true that people don't sprint like 10 yards at full speed for an interception, but there are instances where the interception starts from "burst-like" sudden acceleration and leads into a full sprint break away. Or things like a bad back pass to the keeper, and strikers run full sprint to intercept it.

In those situations, and things like Pato's goal for Milan, sudden acceleration to beat defenders is definitely part of the game in real life and therefore they should be in PES. I just don't buy the idea that Pato is accelerating faster than his full sprint speed or his usual acceleration cause he is "bursting", or why that isn't based on the stat that's called "acceleration".
 
But I thought R1 was not full speed. Tapping R1 is quicker. I can't say I've seen the burst move done on top of someone at full speed. Only from less than full speed.

I will try the demo tonight as I've only played it a few times on PC and not on Xbox yet. Have you got video showing the burst in addition to someone at full speed? Not that I don't believe you but I'm not 100% sure I've seen the issue you write about in my few games of the PC demo.
 
Im looking forward to this, nearly downloaded and start work @ 11, yeah man!

Thought the ps3 demo was awful but im gonna put some time in with pes12 demo so hopefully im up to par for general release..

never really got to grips with pes11 the way i did the others...
 
got the 360 demo lastnight,wow what a difference,keepers are much better only made one mistake in 3 games and that was gomez so kinda expected it lol,sound effects are spot on for posts and crossbar,only negative so far is same as last years demo is sprint button is stop start when attacking,defense it works fine but be fixed for for retail,there is alot more i can say but that would mean id have to stop playing,oh and nets finally spot on
 
Rodelero said:
Stop teasing us - splurge your views.
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I've not had much time to play it Rod, only managed two games so far. :(

Quick Impressions -

A.I. is even better, no question. Movement off the ball is up another notch.

Passing on Zero is much better, much more contextual error with lesser players, especially defenders. You need to be very precise but even that isnt guaranteed for even the simple 10 yard passes along the deck.

Shooting has been improved again, more zip. My first goal with America Club was a stunning 30 yard strike. Fundamentals were perfect, flight of the ball stayed low but still dipped. Class.

Agility has been toned down across the board, much better, but I expected that.

Dribbling is better with contextual error for lesser players. I'm sure you alured to that, and I'm positive it's coded that way. If it is, I'm very happy. I tried a dribble with slight movements of the stick and R2 with the Americas striker, and he screwed it up. But the way he screwed it up looked like classic mis-control.

It's more fluid everywhere and alot tighter as mentioned.

Keepers have pulled off some amazing saves in just those two games.

1-2's are alot better it seems, although not enough to prove glitchy.

Pace feels better at '0'.

Individuality improved compared to Demo 1, DMF took a big touch to turn, not Oil-Tanker-esque, but just right so the feeling was defined.

I like how the '0' Passing assist requires power for the pass, much like PES 11 but better. It feels more free and natural as the ball isnt always stroked directly to feet, but a yard either side on occasions. Much more realistic.

Hopefully the PES Demo 2 will be out later, I like to know who the players are for reference. Only then so I do totally start to feel the bond and association. Also, it's too tricky for me to create my set-up as I like it in Jap.

Also, the Presets last night I added Preset 3, All-Out-Defend with a 4-2-2-1. Outstanding for a quick change on the fly when required, and with all the players taking their pre-specified roles. This will be massive.
 
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