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PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Ern Dog said:
I have found that even with all the assistance settings off the players will still do everything that has been turned off, its not frequent though.

And after watching MOTD this weekend I think that they really need to have players knock the ball on more when dribbling, its way to tight.
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Sure, i agree with this..
 
theopinion said:
People need to stop constantly arguing that defending is under-powered, i strongly believe that defending in pes 2012 while difficult at times, requires you to think like football player or team when defending.

Ive been forcing the A.I. to make mistakes by simply cutting out passing lanes, crowding out targets and anticipating where the ball may be passed to and then intercepting it.

Its a learning process people, not bragging, but i beat Milan on top player with napoli 3:1 by playing an extremely contained and well thought out gameplan via a process of timing attacks during the the game and deciding when to let the AI maintain possession and force them to commit forward so I could go on a quick counter.

Take it slow and the you will find gaps to score or set up some nice plays, when defending make sure you always cover central areas and target men. Also its imperative that you adjust the formation depending on the score line and time left in the match. If you are leading with 10 minutes to go, adjust and bring back more defenders into deeper positions and sub out those that fatigued.

Good Luck in mastering the new defensive system
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gergerger said:
Defending in PES is best archieved by closing spaces and shrinking the space between your lines. It is a complete evolution from PES2011.

When you attack, you can't just bomb forward until you score. With defending it's the same thing now: you can't just chase the attacker and disposses him.

Personally, I don't use the R2+X, I tried it but I don't feel the need to use it. To me, it's all about defensive movements and intelligent player switching.

A few tips:

• Learn to foul.
Fouling is vital to interrupt the pace of the AI. When you lose shape, you have to cut play before the AI builds momentum.

• Trust the slide tackle.
There is a reason why players slide tackle in real life. Try to figure out why, and most important, when.

• Learn when to apply pressure.
You have to master the 2nd player pressure button. Keep in mind that your player will be likely to leave a gap. This wasn't too important in PES 2011, where defending was mostly physical and individual. Now, it involves mastering your team shape.

• Read the final pass before the first one.
Learn to foresee what is the intention of the AI. It is always advisable to prevent the final move rather than the first one: you have to know where to concede space, and where to deny it.

• NEVER leave a gap in the centre of your defense.
I bet you see a lot of goals where an AI player runs straight between your CB and scores. I also bet you can't score that way against the AI. This is YOUR fault. This gaps is often generated by a breach in the central are of your midfield.

• Force the AI to the sides.
When marking individually, always protect the central side of the pitch. Don't let the AI pass you through the middle. Force them to the sides.
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Just want to re-highlight these two posts above, spot on. There is nothing wrong with the Defensive system is PES2012.

It took me ages, probably around a hundred games to appreciate it but now I know the system, even if sometimes the CPU still breaks through with something that I had missed or executed poorly.

PES2012, requires a real life take on defending, and it starts from the front. Too many people I believe are still probably using tackle and pressure to get in the faces of the CPU, when in fact just watch any real game for tips. How many tackles do you see these days? Hardly any. How many people tackled Aguero on the weekend? Probably none. Defenders don't TACKLE like they used to, instead they stall and usher their opposition into areas, cutting down space all the time. If you correctly keep ushering, the opposition is left with no space and you cut out all his options. This sounds simple. BUT IT REALLY ISN'T!

To defend properly for the full game in PES2012 takes a hell of a lot of focus and concentration. It's the slightest nuance here and there that can make all the difference to whether or not you kill a move or not, just like in real life.

I was shipping goals left, right and centre for the first eighty games. AC Milan were raping me, so were Napoli. I've highlighted some of my recent successes, were I won three consecutive games v Napoli, as Man Utd, then Milan, then Porto (on Top Player, all assists off, pass assist 0), when previously it had taken over a hundred games to win two games in a row!

It is doable, but play, play, play. I agree, the well timed foul is crucial especially when you've messed up in midfield and there's a possible man on man situation - just bring them down, take the punishment.

Always defend the inside channels, always! Look out for the prone one two which can cut your CB's to ribbons if you're not looking out for it. Take control of the defender and show him the outside, if he passes inside, you show the next man the outside and so on. BUT DEFEND THE CENTRE OF DEFENCE religiously.

These days there is simply no excuse for me to concede through there. There will be occassions where you just have to take your hat off to the CPU and say 'great move' I really didn't see that one coming. But that's football. I was conceding lots of those goals that people talk about that look shit on replay because it looks like the shot was too slow and the keeper too shit. But looking back lots of these were from CPU players taking the shots from just inside the 18 yard box!! What did I expect, Rooney not to be scoring with his third shot from there?

I LOVE THE DEFENSIVE SYSTEM in this years edition, and if they tone it down I will be extremely saddened. The defensive side is more of a game in itself than the attacking side, and now I pride myself on minimising CPU goal threats.

You just have to listen to what's been said here, and try and implement it. Don't dive in, unless you're purposefully giving a foul and you know you will bring him down.

POSITIONING is vital, defend in units.

But only the player can work out what works for them and what doesn't. If you're a button masher, then you'll simply never get it. You have to change the way you play and defend for the game, the game won't change for you.
 
dannyfc2 said:
I'll be honest, I'm on the exact same wavelength as you and shorty alien. I moaned enough over the last couple of weeks to convince myself it must all be in my head since no-one else seems bothered by it. It's such a huge problem in the first demo that I really, really do hope it's been toned down come release day. I'm actually staggered that it's barely caused debate on here or WENB.

For a series that heralds individuality as a fundamental of the game, why has it took such a step backwards? Dribbling and turning is the stand-out problem, but like you said passing and shooting is much alike too.

Professional players don't turn like tanks, granted, but Gattusso shouldn't be able to fucking skip past two or three players on a whim, no chance. UGHH. :RANT:
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I do normally agree with Shorty 100%, but I'm struggling to here to be honest.

The posts about the art of defending in PES 2012 are bang on the money for me. I just feel people are getting very frustrated, because what worked previously, doesnt anymore. I went back to PES 11 last night for a PEEL league game, the skill needed to defend is piss-poor in comparison. On every level.

As for the individuality, I'm very happy how they have combined a more realistic agility system, that also keeps the rest of the statistics apparent. The bottom-line is, the agility was always the most blatant statistic, because it was instantly noticable. It was artistic licence to define the more agile players, but it wasnt the most realistic way in my opinion. Since when have we ever said 'Did you see Bramble last night ? shit, he turned like an oil-tanker. It's wrong, all professional players are agile. They are professional athletes. Some, obviously, are more agile than others, and that is still massively apparent for me.

My two DMF's for Penarol are like chalk and cheese. Freitas is a big, strong ball-winner who uses his strength to force the issue. He is strong on the ball, hard to knock off, but his passing isnt great, his first-touch can be poor, and he isnt as responsive or agile as Domingo. He does read the game better than Domingo though, and makes himself more available as an option. I can 'feel' the difference of every Penarol player. The only difference now is that I dont have to have a player take 3 seconds to turn to distinguish his immediate skill-set.

Also, individuality is more apparent for me in other area's, such as movement and intelligence off the ball. This is massive for me, and it has never been anywhere near this level. We also now have seperate attack and defence levels for players. Rooney will have a higher Defensive number in the break-down page of his stats. Hence the reason we see him track back so much in the demo. Other strikers have less, defining their lazier nature.

The one point I massively, massively disagree with, is the whole, everybody is more responsive, therefore, skilled dribblers. I'm sorry, but I find that statement absolute bullshit. There is a dribblers artistic licence in this game that is very cleverly done in my opinion. And it has to be, they had to find the balance between making the game more responsive and realistic, without making every player capable of Messi type runs. I have Aguiar, Estanoy (sp) and Pacheco, these are the only players on my team truly capable of beating a man or two. And these 3 are my best dribblers stat-wise. They are given a licence to drift past players, and even though their teammates are responsive, they dont have anywhere near the success these three can achieve. Not even close.

My intitial concerns with regards added responsiveness, was that it would make the game alot quicker. Infact, it's the exact opposite. The added responsiveness promotes a much more methodical philosophy. It creates more time for the players, which removes the need to keep the ball moving quickly, ala PES 11. We no longer have to worry that defenders and DMF's will take an eternity to set themselves, forcing us to treat the ball like the proverbial hot potatoe. Now we have a little more time, and with this comes a more composed and thought-out game of football.

Also, even without the Passer Player Card, I feel the big difference between my players. Penarol have two players that are capable of that killer-pass. Pacheco and Aguiar. That's it. There is no point even trying a clever pass with any of the others, because 9 times out of 10, they fail.

My only real concern at the minute is the Right-Stick run trigger. I just cant seem to get my head around it, and it really started to piss me off last night after I hammered it to see it's effectiveness. I was dead against the idea initially, as the game feels less organic and more manufactured when it's utilised. At first I was happy to use the system for dummy runs, to 'use him by not using him'. That was cool initially, but I found alot of success last night that I feel will be very easy to exploit. Again, initially I felt it to be a bit of a sell-out to the Fifa crowd. There are tactical systems in place, such as the Quick-Counter than gives us the options and movement without the real need for this Run Trigger system. I also thought that although it was in the game, it was actually quite tough to pull off successfully because you had to take control of the right-stick, aim then click. It actually isnt hard at all. You dont even really need to aim and pick out a player. You can simply just press pass, then click the right stick. Rinse and repeat. All of a sudden you then have multiple players charging forward, ready for a through-ball, on the deck or over the top.

I was really happy that the success of the 1-2 through-ball had been eliminated with PES 12. Now I feel like the Right-Stick Run Trigger could possibly be as effective if not more so. There are some great benefits to this system, and it's those benefits that are leaving me very undecided about how I feel overall. One thing is forsure though, I'm postive that it could become a massive problem once mastered in the wrong hands. :(
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
My intital concerns with regards added responsiveness, was that it would make the game alot quicker. Infact, it's the exact opposite. The added responsiveness promotes a much more methodical philosophy. It creates more time for the players, which removes the need to keep the ball moving quickly, ala PES 11. We no longer have to worry that defenders and DMF's will take an eternity to set themselves, forcing us to treat the ball like the proverbial hot potatoe. Now we can a little more time, and with this comes a more composed and thought-out game of football. :(
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:APPLAUD::COOL: absolutely spot on. I played this before you Jimmy and I said straight off the bat that it was a much better game as it is built for planning and methodical build up, without the constant chasing..............for once we have a football game that encourages you to play it like football.

I love the turning and responsiveness of 2012 it simply gives me more time to plan my next move, which in turn, creates some wonderful passage of realistic play.
 
Good point jimmy, do you use the trigger function manually? I've quite enjoyed using this function it's not just about forward runs. As you can pull a player closer to you and form triangles, make a winger pull right out wide dragging the fb to create space and so forth. Yeah the problem with this function will be online players abusing the system on auto. But with the trigger spamming it will lead to gaps in their defence.

We won't know the cheap tactics til we finally have a good months worth or so of the game. Two days til demo 2 comes out, im excited but then I think that'll be it for 2011...
 
Sabac Red said:
Good point jimmy, do you use the trigger function manually? I've quite enjoyed using this function it's not just about forward runs. As you can pull a player closer to you and form triangles, make a winger pull right out wide dragging the fb to create space and so forth. Yeah the problem with this function will be online players abusing the system on auto. ..
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Yeah I do it manually. To be honest, I thought that was the only way ?

From a footballing perspective, as you highlight with the triangles, it can be a fantastic feature. With so many options to be creative. I just worry for it's over-effectivess and probably abuse from the less football-minded.

Dave, it's 'Football 101' in every sense of the term. :)
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Yeah I do it manually. To be honest, I thought that was the only way ?

From a footballing perspective, as you highlight with the triangles, it can be a fantastic feature. With so many options to be creative. I just worry for it's over-effectivess and probably abuse from the less football-minded.

Dave, it's 'Football 101' in every sense of the term. :)
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You can have it on assisted as well Jimmy, where you don't actually have control over the player, whereas with manual you can control him with the right stick.
 
Jon Murphy just tweeted that the second demo is final boxed code..but the game will be updated on/around launch, i presume that means it's the final code right now.
 
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Agreed with Jimmy. I am also very concerned with run triggers. Once mastered they can be exploitable. I also find that the player passing the ball is more accurate when you use the manual method of player select and run into space.
 
@ bullstein. How goes mate?
Agreed it needs to be fixed up. God forbid I should have to drop out from PEEL if the connections should be worse than PES2011. Always my biggest concerns mate.
 
zeemeister said:
Agreed with Jimmy. I am also very concerned with run triggers. Once mastered they can be exploitable. I also find that the player passing the ball is more accurate when you use the manual method of player select and run into space.
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Remember tho'. our team mate ai is also decent to track free running opponent better than 2011. So yeah i hope it can make a good balance :))
 
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