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PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Because blindless pressure ruined it. This is far more realistic, committing to the challenge with reckless abandon would get you murdered more often than not in real-life, in PES 11 it was an easy and lazy way to regain possession. Now you have to think of it more, and in doing so, it makes you more aware of not giving away possession so cheaply, forcing a more composed and realistic build-up play. Or that's how I see kit anyway.
 
First post on this boards so Hello Everyone! :WORSHIP:

postet this on several other forums,nobody recognizing or mentioning it before made me a bit bother. Please check this and give a feedback! Thank you!


Problem: Player positioning via player switching in Free Kick or Dead Ball Situations!

TOP PLAYER difficulty, Free Kick Situation away from opponents goal. You can move any Player in the Box via the Right Stick. The PROBLEM is that one Defender of the COM Team will FOLLOW your Player and position himself right BEHIND the Player you have moved in the box.

This means you NEVER get caught OFFSIDE in any Free Kick Situation, and you can just ignore any Defender by crossing to the player you moved in the box.

This NEVER happens in (prof.) football. There is a defensive Line and a Defender would never FOLLOW a single Player in the BOX and position himself BEHIND him.

Happend every Free Kick on Top Player!


PLEASE reporte this to Konami.

I tried to visualise it on work, cause I have no screenshots or videos right now.

freekickaimistake2.jpg
 
Happens not only in freekicks, they are following the attackers too close generally and you barely see any offisde situations.
 
One problem I'm finding with the demo is that the game completely misjudges who I want to play the ball to. With pass assistance on zero, I play a decent pass to someone, but he runs away from the ball and some other player, much further away, tracks back to pick it up. Even though the pass itself turns out almost exactly how I tried to execute it.

On a similar note, the game sometimes changes the pass entirely because it thinks someone else has a better shot at the goal (or something, don't know what it's about). I was nearing the opponents box, wanted a through pass between defenders to meet my right winger, made the pass, directed it, but the game decided I wanted to pass to a guy on the left! That was about 90 degrees from my intended receiver. Granted, I got into a decent chance but I was too surprised to make anything out of it.
 
Jimmy I am not saying that holding down the pressure buttons and running straight through people and winning the ball was better(not sure if you are saying that), I ABSOLUTLEY hated it. I think that the holding off and timing the tackle was done better in the 2011 demo, I felt I had more control of the situation. It was one of the best things about the demo and I was very dissapointed that they negated it with the ridiculously easy pressure auto tackles. I have only played 7ish games of the demo so maybe I a just not used to it but I did not like the way you get held back at a constant distance, I maybe remembering wrongly but I thought that you had greater control of the distance you kept from the attacker in the old system by playing with the stick. I might not even be using the new system right but at the moment it seems very clumsy to me.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
Because blindless pressure ruined it. This is far more realistic, committing to the challenge with reckless abandon would get you murdered more often than not in real-life, in PES 11 it was an easy and lazy way to regain possession. Now you have to think of it more, and in doing so, it makes you more aware of not giving away possession so cheaply, forcing a more composed and realistic build-up play. Or that's how I see it anyway.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Everyone needs to realize easy pressuring won't work much, and get used to proper defending. Like I said, its a proper mind game now, and I'm loving it to bits. Defending is so satisfying now, because when I win the ball, I know I did it, and not easy one button automatic homing missile defending.
 
Can you help me defending against Robinho and Ibrahimovic on top player?
It seems like nothing works, pressure, hold-up play...
 
Isslander said:
One problem I'm finding with the demo is that the game completely misjudges who I want to play the ball to. With pass assistance on zero, I play a decent pass to someone, but he runs away from the ball and some other player, much further away, tracks back to pick it up. Even though the pass itself turns out almost exactly how I tried to execute it.

On a similar note, the game sometimes changes the pass entirely because it thinks someone else has a better shot at the goal (or something, don't know what it's about). I was nearing the opponents box, wanted a through pass between defenders to meet my right winger, made the pass, directed it, but the game decided I wanted to pass to a guy on the left! That was about 90 degrees from my intended receiver. Granted, I got into a decent chance but I was too surprised to make anything out of it.
Click to expand...

This is something that jumped out at me in the first few games, its awful and I am really surprised that there is not more of an outcry. I did find that setting pass assistance to 1 helped a little though.
 
Isslander said:
One problem I'm finding with the demo is that the game completely misjudges who I want to play the ball to. With pass assistance on zero, I play a decent pass to someone, but he runs away from the ball and some other player, much further away, tracks back to pick it up. Even though the pass itself turns out almost exactly how I tried to execute it.

On a similar note, the game sometimes changes the pass entirely because it thinks someone else has a better shot at the goal (or something, don't know what it's about). I was nearing the opponents box, wanted a through pass between defenders to meet my right winger, made the pass, directed it, but the game decided I wanted to pass to a guy on the left! That was about 90 degrees from my intended receiver. Granted, I got into a decent chance but I was too surprised to make anything out of it.
Click to expand...

What you have mentioned is one of the things doing my nugget in!
 
Ern Dog said:
Jimmy I am not saying that holding down the pressure buttons and running straight through people and winning the ball was better(not sure if you are saying that), I ABSOLUTLEY hated it. I think that the holding off and timing the tackle was done better in the 2011 demo, I felt I had more control of the situation. It was one of the best things about the demo and I was very dissapointed that they negated it with the ridiculously easy pressure auto tackles. I have only played 7ish games of the demo so maybe I a just not used to it but I did not like the way you get held back at a constant distance, I maybe remembering wrongly but I thought that you had greater control of the distance you kept from the attacker in the old system by playing with the stick. I might not even be using the new system right but at the moment it seems very clumsy to me.
Click to expand...


Ah, I get ya.
 
I have no issues with the defending system at the moment. I think it's fantastic.

Re: jockeying backwards being the same speed as dribblers moving forwards. If the speeds differed, without using smaller tilts of the analog stick to reduce the speed, then jockeying would be unusable. I'd be fully behind getting speeds to be more variable, a la FIFA, but until then let's not break jockeying...
 
ezosk said:
Can you help me defending against Robinho and Ibrahimovic on top player?
It seems like nothing works, pressure, hold-up play...
Click to expand...

This is all I'm doing:

R2 to jockey: To contain
L (Left stick): To move
My eyes and brain: To observe, anticipate

Wait for the right time and bam! Unless I'm outplayed then kudos to CPU AI.

Also, I don't always jump in. If I don't find the right chance to then I simply keep containing and observing, CPU won't go no where and probably pass it to someone else.

Forget pressuring. Give this more time.
 
Lami said:
Thank you. Everyone needs to realize easy pressuring won't work much, and get used to proper defending. Like I said, its a proper mind game now, and I'm loving it to bits. Defending is so satisfying now, because when I win the ball, I know I did it, and not easy one button automatic homing missile defending.
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:APPLAUD:

I'm loving it as well, always having to be aware and on your toes. You can't switch off against top players or you'll be punished. Sometimes I react to my defending as if I scored a goal, it's that satisfying.

In 2011 you could slide tackle "spam" your way out of most situations, thankfully not the case this year. It's more like PES of old (PS2 era) where they'll just dink it around you or stop and change direction if you lunge in haphazardly. Also the fact that the ref actually calls fouls this time around really makes you think twice before diving in. It's not perfect, but I hope Konami doesn't change this in order to cater to the more casual crowd. (like they did with the referee leniency last year)

ezosk said:
Can you help me defending against Robinho and Ibrahimovic on top player?
It seems like nothing works, pressure, hold-up play...
Click to expand...

They can be terrifying at times, can't they? One match I have Robinho in my back pocket, the next he's running rampant.
 
On further reflection there are loads of improvements but I have some glaring issues with the gameplay and the cosmetics of the game.

Right, as for cosmetics; sure, it's not an issue in comparison to gameplay issues, but I hate the graphics on the new nets. Why do they look like the nets from the PS2 era? The nets themselves are grey, almost invisible from a distance, and hardly move. It's bizarre when you compare them to the nets in 2011.

Secondly, I hate the new replay angle you get when you score a goal. 2011 was perfect, offering a TV like view with nice big character models, looked lovely. This year they're so far out and low down you can barely even see anything.

This game plays well but needs a massive lick of paint before release. Textures are low res, glitchy, frame rate is poor on cut scenes. Others have mentioned it was the same on the demo last year but I tried that out last night out of curiosity, and the graphics were the same as they came out in the final version. Sure, this is a much earlier release, but I'm not holding out much hope these will be improved. So far 2011 far beats 2012 in graphics detail. Maybe the improvements in animations have meant cutbacks needed to be made elsewhere?

Gameplay wise, I've noticed a bit of a problem with selecting a man off the ball at set pieces. You control the runner, simply press long pass and the game kind of auto passes to him. Which is fine, except it causes mass havok in the area to your advantage nearly every time. Hmm.

Yet again, yeah, keepers are of course terrible, as Konami themselves have pointed out, but my main bugbear so far is with the dribbling. Feels massively dummed down. I prefered the awkward, 'solid' feeling in 2011 meaning you could take clear and deliberate touches. Combined with R2, you could perform some really deft little moves using just a couple of touches of the ball, and I don't see that here because it all happens too fast, even on -2. The only difference is that the game seems to let skillful dribblers glide around unchallenged rather than you being able to avoid a challenge yourself. I can only imagine what Messi feels like to dribble, seems like you'll be able to twist him against gravity on a whim just like FIFA at this rate.

I'll get slated on here for saying I still kind of prefer 2011, but movement just feels more solid than the 2012 demo. While 2011's odd ball physics have thankfully gone, they've been replaced with physics that are IMO no better. They're different - the bobbling is much nicer etc, but otherwise strong passes glide perfectly across the turf, it tends to float around with smaller touches, and just doesn't look right. Foot planting is also far better in 2011 IMO, and players now feel like they glide around rather than pushing against the turf like they did in 11.

If these problems persist, and graphics aren't also overhauled then I'm not sure I'll get along with this version :(

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of vast improvements in certain areas, notably the way the AI attacks, but there are other large problems that could be serious game breakers for me :(
 
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The dribbling's a change, and overall it's very much for the better. It could do with refining for the future, but it's reactionary to say 2011's is better. It was better within the confines of a much dumber, less realistic game, sure. But that's not much of a compliment is it?

Give it more time LTFC. Not saying you can't have your own opinion of course, but to be fair, how many times did your opinions swing from one side to the next with last year's football games, purely based on more time with it and/or a couple of words of advice?
 
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LTFC said:
my main bugbear so far is with the dribbling. Feels massively dummed down. I prefered the awkward, 'solid' feeling in 2011 meaning you could take clear and deliberate touches. Combined with R2, you could perform some really deft little moves using just a couple of touches of the ball, and I don't see that here because it all happens too fast, even on -2. The only difference is that the game seems to let skillful dribblers glide around unchallenged rather than you being able to avoid a challenge yourself. I can only imagine what Messi feels like to dribble, seems like you'll be able to twist him against gravity on a whim just like FIFA at this rate.

...Foot planting is also far better in 2011 IMO, and players now feel like they glide around rather than pushing against the turf like they did in 11.
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Absolutely.

romagnoli said:
The dribbling's a change, and overall it's very much for the better. It could do with refining for the future, but it's reactionary to say 2011's is better. It was better within the confines of a much dumber, less realistic game, sure. But that's not much of a compliment is it?
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Thing is Rom, it's technically better, but it seems so crazy at these high speeds. If they slowed things down a bit (i.e. to the speed that top athletes can move, rather than cartoon characters) it would be very nice indeed. As things stand, it feels less realistic than in 2011, which it really really shouldn't.
 
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Speed level 0 feels too fast, -1 feels better but passes lack snap and conviction. I cant find a happy medium at present.
 
Pere Ubu said:
Thing is Rom, it's technically better, but it seems so crazy at these high speeds. If they slowed things down a bit (i.e. to the speed that top athletes can move, rather than cartoon characters) it would be very nice indeed. As things stand, it feels less realistic than in 2011, which it really really shouldn't.
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I'd say that -1 speed dribbling attached to 0 speed, and calling that package 0 speed for people to inverse or decrease, would definitely be better. As I said in my preview, some roughness should be added too, as it is a bit too smooth. But I simply cannot agree that PES 2011's dribbling was more realistic. It's a very selective view to take, that ignores the huge artistic licence Konami took in a lot of areas and how the overall gameplay was far less realistic as a direct result of this and the defensive system, rather than just the defensive system alone.

As an overall position relative to the ideal dribbling balance, this year is a lot closer than last year. It might have overshot this year but it's just the culture shock that's making one or two people think it's further away..
 
Ern Dog said:
Jimmy I am not saying that holding down the pressure buttons and running straight through people and winning the ball was better(not sure if you are saying that), I ABSOLUTLEY hated it. I think that the holding off and timing the tackle was done better in the 2011 demo, I felt I had more control of the situation. It was one of the best things about the demo and I was very dissapointed that they negated it with the ridiculously easy pressure auto tackles. I have only played 7ish games of the demo so maybe I a just not used to it but I did not like the way you get held back at a constant distance, I maybe remembering wrongly but I thought that you had greater control of the distance you kept from the attacker in the old system by playing with the stick. I might not even be using the new system right but at the moment it seems very clumsy to me.
Click to expand...

Exactly, if there is no way to vary the distance while containing, then it's neither realistic nor useful.
 
Isslander said:
... but the game decided I wanted to pass to a guy on the left! That was about 90 degrees from my intended receiver. Granted, I got into a decent chance but I was too surprised to make anything out of it.
Click to expand...

Oh, I hate that in every single PES-version, it happens in all of them even in the classics, I hate it and I had hoped that zero-bar-pass-assistance would be a cure for that but since apparantely this sort of manual only is for power and not for direction...

We could use the manual modifier but I don't like to press additional buttons for something that should go without saying.
 
romagnoli said:
I'd say that -1 speed dribbling attached to 0 speed, and calling that package 0 speed for people to inverse or decrease, would definitely be better. As I said in my preview, some roughness should be added too, as it is a bit too smooth. But I simply cannot agree that PES 2011's dribbling was more realistic. It's a very selective view to take, that ignores the huge artistic licence Konami took in a lot of areas and how the overall gameplay was far less realistic as a direct result of this and the defensive system, rather than just the defensive system alone.

As an overall position relative to the ideal dribbling balance, this year is a lot closer than last year. It might have overshot this year but it's just the culture shock that's making one or two people think it's further away..
Click to expand...


Possibly. I certainly agree that it's better than PES2011 technically, but I'm not sure it's all that much of an advance. Or rather, the advance that has been made is seriously compromised by other factors.

The main problem with dribbling in the last game was the way it clashed with the overpowered pressure system - defenders would charge in, 80% of the time they'd just barge into you and steal the ball before you'd even had time to turn on it, 20% of the time you'd pull off a nice move and get away but it would often look a bit odd because you weren't beating the defender in a realistic way. When you were using a really top-rated dribbler, the problem was that the CPU would sometimes override the tackling to let him through - he'd almost pass through players' bodies, or else they were somehow frozen so that he could slalom through the tight spaces - because his stats said that he SHOULD be able to get through those tight spaces. Seemed like a bit of a balancing act (rather like the defenders stepping away from through balls to create more scoring opportunities) rather than something happening "organically" within the gameplay.

PES2012 has improved on this, but I'm just not convinced it's enough of a departure. Sometimes it seems very much like the same trick is being applied, particularly when someone like Robinho is moving in a tight space. What they should have done is balance the responsiveness and the speed of movement a little better, so that the dribbler responds to subtle touches of the sticks/shoulder buttons, the defender can anticipate and react to those movements (but is handicapped by his own momentum in one direction or another), and the battle between those two things determines whether the dribble is successful or not.

There are times in this demo where it seems like that's happening, but there are other times - especially when the top dribblers are on the ball - where the computer still seems to be "forcing" him through. And, when you add the ridiculously high speed of the player's movement, to me it actually looks worse than in PES2011. Even when this isn't going on, you still have situations where a player like Darren Fletcher can turn away with the ball so damn quickly that no defender in the world can block him off. It's where the "arcadey" complaints are coming from, I think. Not sure if it's culture shock really - probably a bit of that, but something just feels a bit off to me. It might be an exaggeration to say that the dribbling in PES2011 was actually better, or more realistic, because it clearly wasn't great and there are times when PES2012 leaves that game in the dirt when it comes to realistic movement. It's just frustrating, because too often what I'm actually seeing here is... well, a bit ridiculous.

If the overall pace of the game were slowed down, there'd be more room for the dribbling to happen naturally. At the moment, even when the "top dribbler force field" isn't being applied, it can feel like the only reason it's hard to stop a skilled dribbler is that he's moving so quickly, no man on earth could react fast enough to tackle him. If you watch a clip of someone zig-zagging through a packed defence, then watch the same thing happen in this demo, the demo looks like it's moving at double speed - and the defenders aren't so much beaten by trickery as by the "blizzarding" effect of 100mph movement. Whatever else that is, it's not realistic.

Completely agree that -1 speed for player movements and 0 speed for ball movement would be a huge improvement.
 
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Anyone got any advice for shooting, I simply can't hit the target (haven't scored yet) not sure why it keeps happening but it seems the main problem that the ball just balloons somewhere.
 
I find it funny how people feel pes 12 is not much of an improvement on pes 11. I played pes 11 last night and the game is actually shocking in comparison.
 
Had a couple more games today and it's all coming together. I'm loving the challenge of the AI, trying to put passing moves together to create space and grinding down the defences. The whole experience requires your full attention.

As Lami said, the defending is fantastic now. A real art, and much more of a chess game between the defender and attacker.

Scored a blinder earlier with Rooney. A thumping low shot with wicked curl that bent round the outstretched arms of the keeper and nestled in the bottom corner. Not seen a goal like it in PES for a while.
 
Well pray to high heaven that game remains mostly intact through release because some of the twitter feedback from fans is jarring.
 
mr_man said:
Well pray to high heaven that game remains mostly intact through release because some of the twitter feedback from fans is jarring.
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Such as?

I saw someone on another forum say that the pace was only right once he'd jacked it up to +1. Someone should cut off that guy's internet until the game's in the shops.
 
mr_man said:
Well pray to high heaven that game remains mostly intact through release because some of the twitter feedback from fans is jarring.
Click to expand...

I'm following that myself right now and some of it is shocking alright. Funny how it's always the comments that are terrible and have the largest negative impact that get to be seen as well out of them all. Not cool.
 
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