PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Although I've been having 20 hours of love/hate with the demo, the last couple of games I played were incredible. Those two games were also the first time I'd played it on 2 player. I played my son who has become a right little pressure whore since he started playing Fifa Online against all his mates from school. The game felt so different compared to playing the CPU, and miles better for it. The pressuring didnt work at all against me, and I was very rarely made to feel uncomfortable by it, rather than being suffocated like in PES 11. I could simply pass it about, looking for the option until I had dragged his players completely out of position, then a nice threaded pass played me in. Fantastic. Strangely, the -1 Speed setting felt perfect as well.
 
Ahhhh I was going to ask if anyone had played multiplayer yet. I'm going to do that tomorrow night... hoping it works out as well for me.
 
Pere Ubu said:
Ahhhh I was going to ask if anyone had played multiplayer yet. I'm going to do that tomorrow night... hoping it works out as well for me.
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A completely different game Pere, honest.

Edit - Totally agree with everything you say about the dribbling, you got that spot-on in my book.
 
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LTFC said:
Yet again, yeah, keepers are of course terrible, as Konami themselves have pointed out, but my main bugbear so far is with the dribbling. Feels massively dummed down. I prefered the awkward, 'solid' feeling in 2011 meaning you could take clear and deliberate touches. Combined with R2, you could perform some really deft little moves using just a couple of touches of the ball, and I don't see that here because it all happens too fast, even on -2. The only difference is that the game seems to let skillful dribblers glide around unchallenged rather than you being able to avoid a challenge yourself. I can only imagine what Messi feels like to dribble, seems like you'll be able to twist him against gravity on a whim just like FIFA at this rate.
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I agree. I've posted about how i find jockeying to be an issue but in truth if dribbling was toned down a bit then i think the issue i'm having with jockeying would be alleviated somewhat. There is no trepidation whatsoever as an attacking player running forward into the opposition and as such the attacker has much more of an advantage than a defender almost to the point of no fear. If you play multiplayer you'll know what i mean, Robinho can twist and turn even the best defenders in the box consistently with instant turning and ball control. Player's ball control is just so good that it feels that you cannot miscontrol the ball or push it too far ahead of you and consequently in addition to how jockeying works (i.e you know the defender has to commit at some point) it is just so easy to 'ghost' past players that in my mind the attacker has too high an advantage. Somebody posted an anecdote yesterday about Darren Fletcher taking it past 4 or 5 players and scoring. Darren freaking fletcher.
 
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I'm loving how genuine fair, hard crunching slide tackles are not penalised by a whistle-happy ref. Makes a world of difference. There is nothing more satisfying than winning a ball back like this, especially with this new defensive system in place.
 
Ern Dog said:
The defensive system worked better in last years demo, dont know why they changed it.
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I know exactly what you mean. The overall idea in this demo seems like what they were trying last year, but I prefer last year's implementation as well.

The main differences I see are

1) The PES 2011 Demo defending had your defender jockeying much closer to the attacker.

2) In the 2011 demo, we had finer control for timing and direction of the jockeying-> tackle change. In the 2012 demo, there seems to be an element of luck involved. When I let go of the trigger (which is not a nice and quick button for jockeying because of its large play and general squishiness). Also, I don't seem to have responsive control over the direction of my tackle.
 
The amount of times i end up jockeying a player on the outside of the box only for him to just pass it straight forward to an unmarked team-mate in the box, despite my defenders outnumbering him, is fucking annoying. MARK HIM, WATCH HIM, HE'S IN THE BOX AND HE'S A THREAT. Why they insist on giving him loads of space is hard to take.

I concede so many goals due to this. What else can i do if i am actively jockeying a player. I need my team's AI to be adept at quashing threats when they get into the box or any other dangerous area, getting close to them at least and potentially looking to intercept or get in the way of a pass that might come in. Instead they just let them have tons of space to receive the ball, turn and shoot.
 
Alright, played a few more times. Thanks for the advice on defending, I am getting better at sheperding players into non-threatening situations - though on counter attacks I'm still stuff when decent dribblers run straight at my back 4. Some specific questions if anyone is feeling charitable:

This is the first PES I've played using analogue - is everyone still on the d-stick?

If you're sprinting down the wing and cross it, when it auto switches to your striker I find he then runs towards goal, meaning I almost always miss headers. This wasn't an issue in 2011, anyone else finding this? What switching setting are people using?

What pass setting is best for preventing the 'stupid' clearly incorrect balls going to the wrong player?

Thanks!

One tip I've seen is that all strikers have 'mark settings' set to the opposition's striker. I think this is why we see Berbatov and Rooney tracking all the way into their own penalty area, having turned that off it's much better for me.
 
Northzzz said:
Somebody posted an anecdote yesterday about Darren Fletcher taking it past 4 or 5 players and scoring. Darren freaking fletcher.
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This is a problem. I totally get what Rom says about it being jarring and requires you to get used to it, but I have found less skillful players like defensive midfielders able to dribble around multiple players, which isn't good.

I was extremely reactionary over PES2011, never before had I played a game that could so easily swing from the sublime to the absolute ridiculous, so I'm pleased PES2012 looks like it'll be a lot more consistent at any rate. So far no dodgy AI, no calamitous defensive mistakes due to player switching etc, just beaten by good, well constructed goals.

I'd recommend anyone try the South American teams, the game plays better IMO. Slightly slower, more considered. At least playing with lesser teams will allow a greater level of enjoyment, much like last year, which is also good.

But PLEASE Konami fix the graphics, they're not up to next gen standards as they currently are!
 
Just played my first match as a fixed player and absolutely loved it! Teammate AI is actually just as good as when you're in charge of the whole team whereas the teammate AI on 2011 BAL was piss poor.

Playing as Nani, the CPU picked me out on all kinds of times when I was hoping it'd pass. The opposition marked me properly, always felt like a challenge to try and get some space. Finished 4-2, which seems a little high although that might be down to crap goalies anyway.

Roll on BAL, I think I'll actually play more than a few games this time!
 
lons_pl said:
Fluid for me is something different than for you. For me FIFA has fluid turning animations.
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I have an animation background so I'll give my opinion here.

Fifa has many more minor animations that deal with transitions between states. PES appears to rely on tweens (computed interpolations) to do the same thing.
Computed interpolations are fine when dealing with rigid objects but can never look organic. As a result when moving from one 'state' to another in PES, the transition is a lot more unnatural and jarring, i.e. not fluid.
 
beachryan said:
This is the first PES I've played using analogue - is everyone still on the d-stick?

If you're sprinting down the wing and cross it, when it auto switches to your striker I find he then runs towards goal, meaning I almost always miss headers. This wasn't an issue in 2011, anyone else finding this? What switching setting are people using?
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Used to be a dpad player but analogue is so much better.

Isn't that what a striker is supposed to do? One of my biggest
gripes in 2011 was the striker making a run into the box then stopping
then moving back. Now they actually make runs towards goal.
I've had a few intances of missing crosses due to having more
control in the box instead of the player waiting for the ball.

Really liking the players blocking the ball in this and the deflections
seen goalkeepers make some great finger tip saves onto the goal frame.

All the nuiances from 2011 seem to be gone, players are far more reactional
even when akwardly switching to another player.
 
Isslander said:
One problem I'm finding with the demo is that the game completely misjudges who I want to play the ball to. With pass assistance on zero, I play a decent pass to someone, but he runs away from the ball and some other player, much further away, tracks back to pick it up. Even though the pass itself turns out almost exactly how I tried to execute it.

On a similar note, the game sometimes changes the pass entirely because it thinks someone else has a better shot at the goal (or something, don't know what it's about). I was nearing the opponents box, wanted a through pass between defenders to meet my right winger, made the pass, directed it, but the game decided I wanted to pass to a guy on the left! That was about 90 degrees from my intended receiver. Granted, I got into a decent chance but I was too surprised to make anything out of it.
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This is my main gripe about the demo thus far, though you can see this is a special game, composure and build-up play are key and it's exactly what I've been waiting for.
 
This works like last year's game for player switching correct. Seems to for me anyway. Semi Assisted is the one if you want to use for manual control? For a first build this game is pretty good. Plays miles better than last year for me anyhow. I am looking forward to the second demo. Players could be a smidge bigger. I am playing on normal long they are a bit too small for me.
 
I just tried pes2012 on ps3...

Tragic arcade ping pong blind passing game again...

Its miles away from fifa11 on slow/manual and probably from fifa12 also.

Little better from pes11 but still miles away...

No way Seabass...
 
Having played some more the demo on PC with middle-detail and 800*600-resolution... daylight-matches look much better again than night-games... still not nearly as good as in gamescom-videos.

Playing the southamerican teams was more fun than the european ones... the atmosphere in PES 2012 is better than in PES 2011.

The feeling on the pitch is really eerily similar to PES 5/6, it's as if Konami deliberately tried to emulate that feeling within the PES 2011-engine. How they did it? Through much more control and through players having a closer connection with the pitch... it makes movement strangely feel more rigid and more free at the same time than in PES 2011.

I like it more than on my first go, but I have still the feeling that individuality and dribbling has been taken a notch or two down since PES 2011.

But players feel more alive and reactive, thanks both to a much improved AI and better animation.

The demo though still feels very raw and unfinished... but I guess this could be a brilliant strategy: Once the second demo hits, we will be all awed at how much more refined the game has become.
 
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brophog said:
Did you not read the opening disclaimer on the demo?
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Regardless, people will still be playing the demo code before they decided it was worth releasing to the public. I can't believe nobody said "Hang on, the keepers are shit in this. Maybe we should fix that up to make them at least Championship level rather than pretty much ruin the matches?". Clearly that discussion never happened though.
 
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