PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

My last match on the Demo, got destroyed 8-3 by porto, some piss+poor keeping for almost every goal for me and the CPU shoulda been 2-1 to porto from what i could gather, still an excellent game all together :D
 
beachryan said:
I definitely don't feel like I have control over my players enough to tackle successfully.
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Then stop trying to tackle.

To play defense in this game requires a completely different mindset than previous games. If you make it your goal to get the ball back from the offense then they'll go right by you. Your job is to contain them, run them into the sideline, create a bad angle on goal and just keep them busy. Think of containing the situation, not controlling the situation.

The computer is designed to face an opponent that player switches, runs around trying to dispossess them of the ball. They really do get quite agitated if you sit back and don't do that (similarly on offense they seem to get annoyed if you pass too much). Even great dribblers in this game seem to make mistakes. Just be patient and wait for those and if an opportunity arises to tackle then take it. Make them go through 3 layers of structured defense.

The old CPU tug back is heavily used. You're running down the wing, then a CPU player pulls you back, you conveniently stumble and the lose the ball. For the life of me I cannot do it to their wingers, mind.
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I don't mind that they use their physicality, I just wish it was more even handed. Seems very difficult for the user to do the same to them.
 
Northzzz said:
I said it on the PC Demo board earlier but i have a big issue with the jockeying. The jockey is great, well it looks good, but you jockey backwards at the same speed as the opponent dribbles forward so that the gap between you both is always constant. It almost locks you into place. The speed of jockeying backwards needs to be slower, or at least variable based on how much the user is pushing the joystick, so that the space between you both can become incrementally smaller so that you're then able to go in for a challenge because he;s effectively dribbled too close to you. Far too often i'm finding that i'm just backing away from the player and that it doesn't put him off attacking at all because there's still so much space between us. I can go for a challenge but far too often he'll just ghost past me because i have to cover so much ground forward in order to do so.

I can jockey forwards but i don't always want to go forward as such, mostly for fear of them ghosting past me. I want to go backwards but slower so that if the player dribbles too close to me i am then in a better position to go in for a challenge rather than having to cover loads of ground myself in order to do so.


Even the official video highlights what i'm getting at. The constant distance between them, that's what i'm experiencing. The tackle at the end is only made because the defender jockeys sidewards and then stands still as the dribbler runs too close to him.
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Yea, I noticed that as well. But been using just R2 last couple of games and its been more effective. Player jockeys but you get to move them however you want.

Plus, I couldn't get used to holding R2 + x then letting go of R2 to tackle...I would always just let go and then quickly tap x. Letting go of a button to do something is counter intuitive to me.
 
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Master Kush said:
Plus, I couldn't get used to holding R2 + x then letting go of x to tackle...I would always just let go and then quickly tap x. Letting go of a button to do something is counter intuitive to me.
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EXACTLY!! Finally someone that feel my pain!! It's just not accurate enough and all you could do is hope for the best that he'll stick his leg in.

Now I understand how some peeps think the defending is great and that it's an "art", however, the defender seem to be placed under too much of an disadvantage for my liking. As Beachryan says, the player momentum always throw my defender past the dribbler too easily. It's waaaay too sensitive and they glide/slide around too much. I agree players should get penalized for lunging into tackles too rashly, however the current system makes controls too "loose". Also. Physical defenders' edge is being rendered minimal, except for aerial challenges.
 
Master Kush said:
Yea, I noticed that as well. But been using just R2 last couple of games and its been more effective. Player jockeys but you get to move them however you want.

Plus, I couldn't get used to holding R2 + x then letting go of x to tackle...I would always just let go and then quickly tap x. Letting go of a button to do something is counter intuitive to me.
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I dont know if you typed this in error but, its R2 you should be letting go not x. ;)
 
brophog said:
Then stop trying to tackle.

To play defense in this game requires a completely different mindset than previous games. If you make it your goal to get the ball back from the offense then they'll go right by you. Your job is to contain them, run them into the sideline, create a bad angle on goal and just keep them busy. Think of containing the situation, not controlling the situation.

The computer is designed to face an opponent that player switches, runs around trying to dispossess them of the ball. They really do get quite agitated if you sit back and don't do that (similarly on offense they seem to get annoyed if you pass too much). Even great dribblers in this game seem to make mistakes. Just be patient and wait for those and if an opportunity arises to tackle then take it. Make them go through 3 layers of structured defense.
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Very good post :TU:

I think we're of the very few enjoying defending. I still say I've got no problems defending at all. It is a mind game and I'm loving it.

Try using R2 and direction only to contain, then wait for the perfect moment to jump in.
 
Buzzyhead said:
I dont know if you typed this in error but, its R2 you should be letting go not x. ;)
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Lol yea fixed it.

My feelings of the demo have been up and down since my first crack at it. I have a bit of faith knowing that this is an early build...and I for one (and I assune most of us here) have never had an a chance to play a pes this early in the dev cycle, so its hard to say how much will be changed for the retail build.

There is definitely a quality game lurking here. The only thing that Im worried about getting fixed is the robinhomics that plagues the demo. I find it way more fun to play with the weaker teams because of it. If Nokami tweeks the agility, acceleration and dribble acc....say lowering it by 15-20%...then we might have that game we all been waiting for.
 
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Are they really going to fix the floaty shots and keepers?

If they don't fix these 2, honestly, you have to admit no matter how good the game is, it cannot go down to be better than pes5/6.
 
I'll stick my head out and say I have no problems with so called "floaty" shots. I've had and seen all kinds of different shots, and many were contextual.

Keepers need to be finished as currently they're buggy, don't want them superhumen though.
 
Lami said:
I think we're of the very few enjoying defending. I still say I've got no problems defending at all. It is a mind game and I'm loving it.

Try using R2 and direction only to contain, then wait for the perfect moment to jump in.
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Thing is Lami, the mechanics for "jumping in" is not accurate/responsive enough. You don't exactly know when he's going to stick his leg out, sometimes there is a slight lag, sometimes he just refuses to do it.

Am I doing something wrong?
 
Now just listen the WENB podcast and they say the same thing I told you earlier. The demo of PES 2012 is worse оf than the preview code witch i have. I really am not happy with that, It is very unfortunate that you can't see how much better is the old preview Build of PES 2012.

I really hope the final version to be closer to preview build not to the demo
 
Lami said:
Very good post :TU:

I think we're of the very few enjoying defending. I still say I've got no problems defending at all. It is a mind game and I'm loving it.

Try using R2 and direction only to contain, then wait for the perfect moment to jump in.
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I have to add one more style of defending i use in demo, Think about cpu ai counter attacking you.

The ball is on their winger in our half and their CF is sprinting forward for position guarded by one of our defender (CB). What i do is call a team mate to guard the winger meanwhile i am controlling my CB try to adjust his position to be ready to cut the ball or even stay behind them as possible. it Sometimes slows their counter attacking. Great feeling :BOP:
 
I've also got no qualms on how defending is, it is enjoyable when you manage to dispossess the likes of Neymar, Robinho. Especially when you face up to them one-on-one. But my hands just can't get used to the RT(R2)+A(X) combination.

I wished they kept it at holding A(X) while pointing the Left stick at our goal. It felt a lot more natural IMO.
 
AntrAcsA said:
Now just listen the WENB podcast and they say the same thing I told you earlier. The demo of PES 2012 is worse оf than the preview code witch i have. I really am not happy with that, It is very unfortunate that you can't see how much better is the old preview Build of PES 2012.

I really hope the final version to be closer to preview build not to the demo
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Sorry, I might have missed your previous posts. Care elaborating on what aspects is the demo is inferior to the preview code?
 
muffinmak said:
Thing is Lami, the mechanics for "jumping in" is not accurate/responsive enough. You don't exactly know when he's going to stick his leg out, sometimes there is a slight lag, sometimes he just refuses to do it.

Am I doing something wrong?
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I guess not. overall in this aspect i think they are better than 2011. But may be the one that could limit it being "perfect" is the animation engine and the animation itself.

However, it still depends on defender stats too, right ? Better one will be much joy to use his defending skill than other.

Let's wait in the second demo how far they will polish it since it will picture the final version, as konami said ;)
 
muffinmak said:
Sorry, I might have missed your previous posts. Care elaborating on what aspects is the demo is inferior to the preview code?
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In preview code the speed is better, passing is much better, dribbling look much realistic and better, :square:(high pass)+ :x: is shot cancel (like in pes211)and :circle:(shot)+ :x: is fake shot whit animation, that is great, u can chose not now like in a demo, only 2 direction of fake shot on both combination , generally no more shot cancel in PES 2012, even with "shot >> R1+R2 " , the GK is little bit better on preview code...
Just in preview code the feeling of playing is better .. its hard to be explain with the words.
 
I've said it once and I'll say it again. Pressure whores goodbye and stop nagging. It was only a matter of time that this happened and not a moment too soon. Find another exploit suckers and don't blame the game if you can't defend. I have eased into the defending very nicely with a proper damn control.
My settings are 1 bar assistance and -1 speed. Mmmmm nice n sloow
 
My mate came around yesterday and played a few games. He's alright against the CPU on 2011, I have a slight edge on 2011 against him. He plays the CPU on 2012 and more than holds his own, winning and generally doing much better than I've done. Then I play him a few times and batter him :LOL:

Weird how the two contrast now, I was really surprised to see how well he did against the CPU, his defending was much better than mine and he was even more of a pressure whore than I was!
 
Had my first match with PES 2012 on PC yesterday late night:

THE BAD (yeah, it's better to get this out of the way):

- Goalkeepers are way worse than in PES 2011, didn't expect them to be that bad, despite a lot of people saying so.

- Dribbling seems to be way less deep and interesting than in PES 2011.

- Individuality seems not to be as pronounced as in PES 2011, but I guess it needs time to discover it.

- No stamina-shorttime-breath-model built in. It's a crucial element to work together with the fatigue-system and make the game feel more realistic and organic.


- Graphics are aweful on my PC, but then it's probably my 2 GHz-2GB-RAM-weak Geforce-graphiccard-PC. It nowhere looks as awesome as the gamescom-videos made it look like.

THE NEUTRAL

# Gameplay felt like a mixture of Fifa 11 and PES 2011, espescially the constant marking and interception of passes reminds of Fifa... but then it was the one aspect Fifa did better in the last iterations.

# Defending is still a bit strange, don't know yet if it's brilliant or a failure, but it definitely needs more than one match to check it out. I like it that defending got a bit weakened compared to PES 2011 but I'm not sure if it should be to that extent. Containment is of course nice and good, but to make tacklings that useless is a bit over the top I guess, will investigate further.

# Passing feels on the one hand better, espescially because of the ballphysics making the ball wobble over the pitch at times... On the other hand I'm disappointed that zero bars on pass-assistance feels still completely assisted.


THE GOOD

+ The AI is way more alive and active on both sides.

+ Some of the problems of PES 2011 got fixed: Playerswitching seems more reliable, control of the players is tighter, referrees seem better.

First verdict:

Need way more matches to get warm with the game, but the demo seems to be unfinished in alot of aspects, I'm sure the second demo will be way better.
 
not gunna lie, these keeper mistakes are hilarious, adding a little more enjoyment for me of course i really hope its fixed, but for the moment more than happy to see the bloopers b De Gea and Helton in my Porto vs Man U :L
 
Northzzz said:
I said it on the PC Demo board earlier but i have a big issue with the jockeying. The jockey is great, well it looks good, but you jockey backwards at the same speed as the opponent dribbles forward so that the gap between you both is always constant. It almost locks you into place. The speed of jockeying backwards needs to be slower, or at least variable based on how much the user is pushing the joystick, so that the space between you both can become incrementally smaller so that you're then able to go in for a challenge because he;s effectively dribbled too close to you. Far too often i'm finding that i'm just backing away from the player and that it doesn't put him off attacking at all because there's still so much space between us. I can go for a challenge but far too often he'll just ghost past me because i have to cover so much ground forward in order to do so.

I can jockey forwards but i don't always want to go forward as such, mostly for fear of them ghosting past me. I want to go backwards but slower so that if the player dribbles too close to me i am then in a better position to go in for a challenge rather than having to cover loads of ground myself in order to do so.

YouTube - PES 2012 hold-up play

Even the official video highlights what i'm getting at. The constant distance between them, that's what i'm experiencing. The tackle at the end is only made because the defender jockeys sidewards and then stands still as the dribbler runs too close to him.
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Good point, I noticed this too..
 
I hear Northzzz too. I feel the "locking on" too. The only time you could really steal the ball is when they sorta run into you instead of you proactively stretching your leg out.
 
zeemeister said:
anyone notice the neat little animation when you change presets? The coach urges on to push ahead or stay back etc
img00307201108242310jpg.jpg
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How do you change it on the fly?
 
brophog said:
Then stop trying to tackle.

To play defense in this game requires a completely different mindset than previous games. If you make it your goal to get the ball back from the offense then they'll go right by you. Your job is to contain them, run them into the sideline, create a bad angle on goal and just keep them busy. Think of containing the situation, not controlling the situation.

The computer is designed to face an opponent that player switches, runs around trying to dispossess them of the ball. They really do get quite agitated if you sit back and don't do that (similarly on offense they seem to get annoyed if you pass too much). Even great dribblers in this game seem to make mistakes. Just be patient and wait for those and if an opportunity arises to tackle then take it. Make them go through 3 layers of structured defense.



I don't mind that they use their physicality, I just wish it was more even handed. Seems very difficult for the user to do the same to them.
Click to expand...

Wow. Here we go already. Is there a Brady games strategy guide for this oh brilliant one?
 
DagsJT said:
My mate came around yesterday and played a few games. He's alright against the CPU on 2011, I have a slight edge on 2011 against him. He plays the CPU on 2012 and more than holds his own, winning and generally doing much better than I've done. Then I play him a few times and batter him :LOL:

Weird how the two contrast now, I was really surprised to see how well he did against the CPU, his defending was much better than mine and he was even more of a pressure whore than I was!
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That's what happens when you play against the AI as a human, you never win. I only started defeating AC Milan after going as inhumane as possible.
 
romagnoli said:
Right on the dpad if you're using just the stick for movement. left up and down are basically like L2+O,triangle or X in PES2011.
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zeemeister said:
I use the d-pad for that. You first have to change the movement to just analogues in the button configuration screen.
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Thanks.

I accidentally over hit a corner today, in doing so I realised that with a bit of luck, its possible to recreate the below goal in this game.

YouTube - A. Scholes V Bradford 2000
 
I'm really enjoying the demo on PC but I have a few complaints...

1. Goalkeepers...:FAIL:...the main problem I have with them is when a player hits a high hard shot to the near post when the keeper is already near the post, he always just parries the ball a few yards in front of him. It make no sense as in reality a keeper would either catch the ball or use the pace of the ball to divert it wide or turn it over the bar.

It's been like this for years, is it really that hard for Konami to apply an animation and AI routine to push the ball out of danger instead of flapping at the ball like a sissy.

I don't mind it so much when it's a low shot as real life keepers spill them all the time.


2. I'm happy the 2nd replay camera is back as it's the one I've always used(I despised last years cameras so much I stopped watching replays altogether) but it's way to close to the player ands the option to zoom out further needs to be applied.


3. Goalpost physics are still weird and the ball rebounds in strange unnatural directions sometimes(especially the crossbar). This is unacceptable considering there are off the shelf physics programs that would solve these errors easily(PhysX, Havok).


Konami should take their development team and lock them in a room until the conundrum that is their gimp-goalies is solved in time for release, if only they could get them fixed this game would be EPIC!!!
 
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