PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

For me the game is really a joy to play. Keeper will be fixed, shooting will be the best Konami can offer at the moment, so for me it's just about getting the righ balance and tweaking.

I really feel that dribbling speed and agility need some adjstments, but overall the smoothness and the flow of the game was very welcome to me. IMo it still preserves the PES philosophy in many ways.

I think it's comprehendable to have a more notable difference om how a defender controls compared to advanced midfielder for example, but a much smoother movements that pes 2012 has now was very needed.

Just an example, try to control Luizão (defender) in pes 2011.. it's simply laughable and annoying, it causes so much trouble for nothing... want it or not the guy (Luizão) is a professional football that was in Brazil team squad for many years, so there's no excuse for making his turnning so sluggish like in pes 2011, i really thought he was like an amatuer kid.

Every decent defender can have a reponsive enough ball control to turn away from the attackng pressure and keep passing around the back fourth, and that's football. And when i say "turn" i'm not saying that the defender is supposed to drible past an attacker, but just to keeping him away and being able to pass to teammate player.

I've seen countless time irl a defender simply making a move to get away from pressure and pass with some ease. In pes 2012 you are able to do that, but it's still risky to dribbe past players, that's enough.

But i really think that some moves (while dribbling) are overpowered and t needs to have more sense of inertia and etc, mainly that move when you tap r2 to stop and then move to a side.
 
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Damn. Want to able to keep playing with same settings :L

Seeing more and more stuff i like however, just had the Napoli leeper stop Rooney with his legs by sliding in at him :)
 
Just played the PS3 demo.

Its simply magnificent. It literally has all the footballing fundamentals ticked. From the videos we saw it just looked like a more fluid, responsive and graphically sharper version of PES 2011. How mistaken I was. As soon as you pick up the controller you can feel the huge difference. It put a smile on my face straight away and no PES has done this since the PS2 days.

Im not going to go into detail about all the positives as it will take ages and its pretty much the same opinion as those written in previous hands on articles however I will briefly mention the negatives.

- Goalkeepers are better than in 2011 but they still find it difficult to make those easy saves and sadly end up parrying the ball into a muddle defence or worse directly into the path of an attacker. They need to be improved and more animations need to be added.

- Shooting. The ball physics are wonderful however long range shooting needs a bit more venom behind it especially when you have hit it dead on perfectly.

- Referees. Much better than 2011 as they actually play advantage now but sadly they still blow the whistle for challenges that have clearly gotten the ball. I doubt its to do with the actual collision detection (which is far superior to 2011) but rather with the actual AI of the referee.

Other than that I don't really have any major complaints. Yeah the game could do with more animations and the graphics are still below par for a next gen sports game (mind you FIFA isn't much better either).

Small bugs I noticed are that during cutscenes some players walk through other players and referees and also that in the demo at least your settings are not saved so after each match your pass assistance settings and others are reset.

So from the demo PES 2012 is shaping up to be the best football game this generation (perhaps the best PES ever? time will tell), so good I'm not going to bother buying FIFA this year as it will just be a waste of time for me personally. The King has finally returned.

:)
 
Hate to say it chaps, but... not impressed so far.

I know it's only a demo, and I know it's going to take time to grow on me, but at the moment I'm underwhelmed. Yes I can see some very nice new things in there, yes most of the old PES2011 irritations are gone, yes the AI is vastly improved and off-the-ball movement is much much better. But there are a hell of a lot of flaws leaping out at me right now.

Firstly, the obvious two - goalies and shooting. We all know these have been worked on, but my God, putting out a demo with goalies and shooting like this is one hell of a risk. I was expecting bad goalkeepers, cos we'd all been warned again and again, but I wasn't prepared for what I'm seeing: the worst goalkeepers on a football game since "Striker" on the Super Nintendo. They're horrifically bad, to the point of being gamebreaking - they make the keepers in PES2011 look like Dino Zoff on springs. Shooting is mind-bogglingly bad too, and it's not just that the shots are weak (although they really, really are), it's that they're totally unpredictable. They go in all sorts of crazy directions, and it seems almost random whether the outcome will be better or worse than what you actually wanted. Had a pop with Neymar, aiming for the bottom far corner: it curled up into the near top corner. Goal! Great...

Anyway, those things are being worked on (although God knows how much better they'll be in final code), so let's look at the other stuff. What really stuck me straight away was how unrealistically fast the game gets at times, even when you're trying to play at a slow pace. It's not just Premier League quick, it's Hanna Barbera cartoon quick - like when characters go off the edge of a cliff and are left in mid-air with their feet pedalling at high speed. When Ibra gets on the ball, you almost expect to hear a sound effect going "dinkadinkadinkadinkadinkadinkadink". Turning is too responsive (and the increased ease of dribbling doesn't help), and the players do seem to glide across the pitch somewhat, so I'm afraid the overall effect is a bit... whisper it... arcadey. Sorry, but that's how it looks to me from here. I mean, there's nothing arcadey about the AI - which, as I say, is often superb - but the actual movement of the players... ummmmm.

There's a strange "rubbery" feel to the gameplay, too. It's not just the rubber-banding when dribbling (which is very noticable), it's the whole stop-go rhythm of running and passing. How can I explain? It's like the game could make you queasy if you play it too long, kind of seasick... whole thing seems to undulate, like being on a boat, because of the back-and-forth feel like the game's constantly speeding up and slowing down. It's the ball and the players - one second everything seems sluggish, the next it's moving at unrealistically high speed, then back again. This is in the actual gameplay, it's not a visual thing. Like I said, the only word I can think of is "rubbery".

Graphics I can't really comment on because my telly's so shit, but it looks really dark and murky to me out of the box. I changed my TV settings and to be honest it's still not great. People with proper tellies might feel differently, but I find it very hard to see any detail at all.

Still haven't got to grips with the gameplay, to be fair, probably because I'm instinctively playing in a PES2011 style. But let me point something out here: anyone who's ever played me will know that my "PES2011 style" is not about through balls and so on, it's about close passing, controlling the tempo, going backwards to go forwards, basically trying to play hyper-realistic football. And in PES2011 it worked, it was just fucked by the stupid irritations in that game, the overpowered pressure and the fact that it was much too hard to score unless you played bloody through balls every time you got into the final third. Problem I'm having with this demo is that I can't even get that nice rhythm going - not least because the tactical set-up seems to be rather limited (I can't get the specific settings I used in PES2011 because the preset tactics don't let you tweak... hope that can be overcome, but I haven't poked around enough yet to know one way or the other). I'm not too worried about this because hey, there's got to be a learning curve and I need to unlearn the previous game. But it seems a bit odd, considering I played PES2011 in the precise way we're told we're supposed to play PES2012. I'll work on it.

The sound... Jesus! I thought they'd improved the sound?? At the moment it's worse than PES2011. The crowd are still represented by white noise, but this time there are very noticable cuts and edits (e.g. when the standard hubbub changes to an "ooooh" when you shoot just wide) which sound embarrassingly amateurish and very jarring. As for the cartoon sound effect when you hit the post... <gnashes teeth> At least they've lowered the volume on the chanting, so the Japanese accents (and the fact that it's six blokes in a cupboard multi-tracked to infinity) aren't quite so pronounced.

I dunno... I'll hammer it a bit more tonight and see if I come round. Took me a while to get into the last game, and it's not like I can't see lots and lots of obvious improvements as well as the stuff which is pissing me off. I was just hoping for a better first impression than this - and to be honest, there's stuff in here which, if it isn't changed by release (and it probably won't be, because I'm guessing it's very deep in the code), is going to have me headbutting the wall until October 2012.

Hopefully in a week or so's time, I'll be singing the praises of this game and wondering what the hell was my problem. Not at all sure just yet, though.
 
Ok, the CPU just scored an innovative little header. The ball was mid-height, so he knelt down and headed it inm, looked really cool.

I'll post a video shortly.
 
Incidentally, I should probably mention that I find faults in things for a living, which has given me a terribly moany, glass-half-empty approach to life in general... so, y'know, ignore me. I'm sure I'll come round in the end.
 
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StarEye said:
Uhm, PES 2012 didn't get made in a few months. For example, its AI engine I'm fairly sure had been in development a long long time, perhaps years, just not ready to be implemented until now. Also, PES didn't just start getting good again. PES 2008 and 2009 had the old engine, and PES2010 (released in 2009) was the first with a new improved engine, and was a vast improvement already then. PES2011 continued with what PES2010 started, and PES2012 is a continuation of 2011. It's not some sudden burst in quality due to restructuring.

Either way, it's a pointless discussion that otherwise just gets in the way of the important thing. Playing the game. ;)
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Sorry, I meant gen, not year, which is quite a big difference! My point was precisely that they stopped making the games linearly, which is what they were doing last gen and eventually spread themselves too thin. PES 2012 was very much a case of adding 2 years of AI work and a new animation blending engine on to a PES 2011 base.

To everyone complaining about agility and shot technique - they ARE still there! They just have new names - Explosiveness and kick placement (or something like that). I don't like the new layout of stats tbh. They aren't split very sensibly and the letter grades are far too broad. I doubt Konami will keep the same setup next year - I'll make it a personal crusade in fact.
 
I think people shouldn't really dismiss the game so much based on goalkeepers and shooting. Both are likely/will be fixed in the final version and you'll be really missing out if you don't give the retail version a go just because you've tried some preview code.
 
Scored a lob with Rooney too, was helped in by the keeper but the animation was superb hitting a bouncing ball with his sidefoot.

It just feels limitless so far the type of attack you can build, even the headers can be glanced down to a player right next to him.

Love the way Berbatov will come deep and hold his arms out for the ball.
 
Pere Ubu said:
Incidentally, I should probably mention that I find faults in things for a living, which has given me a terribly moany, glass-half-full approach to life in general... so, y'know, ignore me. I'm sure I'll come round in the end.
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People who say glass half full are optimists. I know what you're saying about this rubbery feel to the game, and I know exactly what you mean. The game seems to speed up in some areas, but then it slows down again to maintain the slow pace that we liked in 2011. I think it has to do with the dribbling system. When a player gets beaten, you can 'sense' the opposition defense moving, or something.

I think that most experienced players of 2011 will notice that the fundamentals of the game are still there. The stuff you learned in 2011 still applies in 2012. Wait for the ball to be trapped by your player, then you can make that quick turn by flicking towards the player's dominant side. Properly weighted passes still require you to charge the power bar halfway while holding down R2. Playing head tennis is as fun as ever, especially with someone like Falcao.
 
Pere Ubu said:
There's a strange "rubbery" feel to the gameplay, too. It's not just the rubber-banding when dribbling (which is very noticable), it's the whole stop-go rhythm of running and passing. How can I explain? It's like the game could make you queasy if you play it too long, kind of seasick... whole thing seems to undulate, like being on a boat, because of the back-and-forth feel like the game's constantly speeding up and slowing down. It's the ball and the players - one second everything seems sluggish, the next it's moving at unrealistically high speed, then back again. This is in the actual gameplay, it's not a visual thing. Like I said, the only word I can think of is "rubbery".
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I feel this as well but I'm sure it's a transitional thing, coming straight from PES 2011. I have played 3 games and at one point I wondered: "If this was FIFA 2012, would I like it?" I wasn't sure. But with each game, I have been getting more into it. What's more, I just have this feeling that I really want to play more!

I've had the pass accuracy on zero and passing is very hard, sometimes it gets into a groove similar to PES 2011 and I can string a few passes together, but then there are times when I have to pass the ball two meters and it still comes up short!

Right now the AI is tearing me apart, can't believe some people find this game to easy.
 
I think they really nailed the feeling when two players without the ball run side by side and fight for space. Probably only noticeable when playing as a fixed player. Also nice touch with the animation when you mark someone, holding out the arm "holding on" to them. Small touches like that are very appreciated.

I hope the rubber band feeling has been worked on. It's a bit too obvious at times. Shots are still backspin 99% of the time, even when the shoot animation (kicking up sweeping motion) should result in the ball having top spin. Also miss the feeling of some players, mostly defenders, being a bit shit with handling the ball. Everyone have really good ball control now, maybe make the difference between players a bit more noticeable.

Anyway, game is great and I can finally stop going back to WE9LE to have fun games, I have them in PES 2012 now.
 
DarthKebab said:
Loved that header, Porto did a cracking glancing header against me.
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Speaking of headers, in my first match the AI hit a corner to the near post, a midfielder flicked it on and Ibra tried to header it in on the 6yr line. Don't know if that happend in 11, but I've never seen it in FIFA. Looked great and very natural.
 
Seriously, if i could put what "fun" means on a dictonary, i would write "Pes 2012" easily.

It's sodamn fun to play this game. I finally can play the way i always liked to, building up my attack slowly, trying to create with so many different options. I feel that every attack can be different, and in counterpat the AI in defence is superb and smart enough to give that feeling of achievement.

My matchs against my bro have been very tight and ultra fun like never before.Hes been complainning so much how hard it is to tackle. I agree with him that some moves should be slower, but no one can deny it that defending must be like this (no stupid pressure with buttons held down all the time).

I am loving it so far!
 
Smething has just hit me, the game is alot of fun to play and very enjoyable, but has it come at expense of ML style giant-killings? One of my favourite things was coming against a weaker opposition but them still being abkleto compete with my team where as on FIFA it would be a formality that you would win i feels like the smaller clubs may struggle against the big clubs like they do on FIFA :/
 
Too much BAL + PES2011 mode = me being sh*t at this demo.

Minus the keeper and shooting, both of which I'm confident are simply an early code issue, I'm thoroughly enjoying this experience. No more PES2011 for me :D.

If I have one gripe, however, it would be the dribbling being too free. It's far too easy to change direction and it's really throwing off my timing. I feel Konami went a little overboard with the range of movement and I it needs to be toned down a touch. Not sure about the rest of you but I think its lacking that touch of intricacy that separates good PES dribblers from great ones. It could just me being very raw to this game after five years(!) in the true PES wilderness but that's just my opinion.
 
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I am also starting to see that loss of technique ability a little tbh. I almost enjoyed the clumsiness of the change in direction in PES2011 with the lesser players. Could this be a little too slick?
 
Im not sure if anybody has noticed, there seems to be one or many trolls all over the pes community websites, posting nearly the exact same post, citing how bad this game is on PC blah blah blah. Or am i just being paranoid here?

EA Sent out their Troll army
 
Right, played a couple of games, first impressions;

Pro's;

- Everything is more immediate. No more button lag, no more players auto wandering the ball into touch, no more stumbling. This time the stumble animation led to players evading their tackle. Really good.

- I lime the shooting, though it seems a bit easy. I scored with my first ever shot in the game, hit the bar from about 40 yards with my second.

- Everything feels more fluid and free

- I saw quite a few diagonal runs from attackers ahead, which was really, really nice

Cons;

- Ball physics are better, but they have an odd feeling of floating about them, along with player movement.

- Dribbling feels easier, the 2011 system of tiny touches of the ball seems far less apparent. Not sure I like this at all. In 2011, how hard you moved the directional stick dictated how hard your touches were. I'm not detecting this at all, dribbling feels less sim like and more arcadey. Which I don't like at all.

- Dodgy AI formations ahoy. Played against Napoli, they lined up for the second half with about 6 in defence, just like in PES2011.

Two cosmetic points too - firstly, while the net shapes look nice, I don't like how they look all 'greyed' out most of the time. They also barely move when the ball hits them. Prefer the shape this year but the physics last year were better IMO.

Second, which I really hope is just because the game is an earlier code, but is it me but do the PS3 PES2012 graphics seem slightly worse than last year? Everything looks the same except that the character models in the in-game view (not replays, which look fine) are extremely low resolution to the point of looking a bit blurry and pixelated. They also still have the jaggies that the PS3 suffered with in PES2011 too.

Anyone else think this about the PS3 graphics? Hopefully it's just because they're unfinished, but so far the player models in the camera views look smaller and less detailed.
 
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Its just starting to click with me, and I'm torn between the slickness and responsiveness. On one hand I like the bigger differential in touch and technique from PES 2011, but this is more subtle and arguably more realistic without the use of artistic licence.

I'm finding -1 Speed is the best for me also. I've had to change the way I play, with PES 11 instilled by default. I'm finding changes in tempo from patient passes to clear options, to quick 1-2 and 3's, are whats creating me the openings. I'm also liking and using alot more the high pass, even over 20-30 yards, it gives me the volley touch to move it on quicker when I speeding up the tempo. Elano and Neymer are pricless, loving this Santos team, Elano's shot from distance sure as hell stay hit.

Getting the fact I can now press sprint in bursts into my head is proving tough. A few quick taps of sprint for momentum and the likes of Neymer and Elano can get wriggle through tight defences for fun with slight changes on directional stick.

I'm liking how defending is an art-form now. Trying to sprint goalside, then holding down R2 and the direction of retreat to jockey, as well as keeping close distance then timing the X tackle takes practice, and great defending will now be acknowledged and respected like never before.

I cant stop playing this, and I went 6 games without scoring a goal before it clicked. I scored a fantastic change of tempo passing move with a lovely finish from Neymer, ( A new shooting animation as well)that's been my best moment yet. Elano got his first FK as well, you need hold it longer, powerwise compared to PES 11. The Ronaldo Chop trick move is alot better now, much tigher and realistic, great for a quick change of direction with good dribblers.

Finally, I dont think Lobs and Dinks are even in this code, I've not been able to do one. They were my party trick in PES 2011. The only time I actually chipped the keeper was maxed out R2 from outside the box. So maybe thats it, and a small press of R2 in dink ? Fuck knows. :CONFUSE:

Edit - LT, graphics and lighting is always lo-res on these Demo's.
 
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The dink is in there - not sure what the deal is with lobs though. Bug? (runs away)

All BaL fans - I recommend having a game or two with the Fixed cursor. If nothing else, it's fascinating to see how much better your team plays. I was so happy after just one game with Giggs as an AM behind Rooney.
 
Just scored a lob with Neymer, but not sure what I did. I'm sure it was a powerful R2. New animation as well. Although not the Scoop which I've been waiting all my life for. Its strange how you get better by trying things that didnt work in the last PES because the things that did work in the last PES dont work now. Throughballs in the air with decent passers are very profitable now. It looks more organic as the code doesnt make defenders part to complete the pass, now we get a tussle or a clean set of heels as the speed element is back being apparent.
 
Im addicted to this Demo :O and playing it has brought the love back for PES even my 2011 performances are up, won my last 3 online matches 6-1, 4-0 and 5-3 lovely stuff :)
 
anyone notice the neat little animation when you change presets? The coach urges on to push ahead or stay back etc
img00307201108242310jpg.jpg
 
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