PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Jimmy G-Force said:
Just scored a lob with Neymer, but not sure what I did. I'm sure it was a powerful R2. New animation as well. Although not the Scoop which I've been waiting all my life for. Its strange how you get better by trying things that didnt work in the last PES because the things that did work in the last PES dont work now. Throughballs in the air with decent passers are very profitable now. It looks more organic as the code doesnt make defenders part to complete the pass, now we get a tussle or a clean set of heels as the speed element is back being apparent.
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yeah I'm finding new stuff the more I play, lovely feeling.

And I scored one goal that felt like proper out-of-real-footy stuff, don't have a vid so I'll try to describe :

basically it was a counterattack with Santos, Ganso broke through the middle running, I saw Neymar on the wing standing still asking for the ball (literally, animation showing with his hands that he wants the ball right at his feet), I started running to the Neymar side, then Neymar suddenly dashed forward leaving last defender in dust, :l1: + :triangle: went perfectly through, Neymar outpaced everyone and was about to score, keeper went in, Ney leaned toward right side to put it with a curl on far post but when I hit :square: he actually shot with left foot to squeeze it it on the short, gk waited for shot on far post and went there...too bad for him, Santos scores.

the jawdropping thing about this goal was that Neymar instant decision with his dash forward, it looked like "ok so I'm not getting the ball here, fuk it let's bomb forward"

PES2012 surprises await you guys :P
 
It looks like they have extended the R2 control shot distance, you can try them from much further out now. And shooting, as is the normal proceedure with Konami, more of a de-press is needed compared to PES 11. Every years this alternates, it's back to long press. Same for FK's.

I just beat Top Player twice, bit it was much less fun than Professional leve;. On Pro you have more time and the dribbling is more effective. I prefer Pro level, the games are alot closer as well, due to me attempting mazy runs et al.
 
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I love how there's a better balance of fouling by the CPU. It wasn't horrible in the last game, but there could have been a few more fouls on average per match by the CPU.

For example in two games as Napoli vs AC Milan just now, the opposition got 4 players booked in each game (twice due to me being sly - not diving though) and the amount of fouls by each time was level in the first match and only one different in the second.

The referees aren't perfect but by quite a way they're better and that's of course adding to this increased foul tally by the CPU. However the opposition now seems more aggressive and desperate at times. Nesta received a red for hacking Lavezzi down on the way through for a one-on-one. It's the way he was half at the side, half behind Lavezzi and doing it because it was the last option.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
It looks like they have extended the R2 control shot distance, you can try them from much further out now. And shooting, as is the normal proceedure with Konami, more of a de-press is needed compared to PES 11. Every years this alternates, it's back to long press. Same for FK's.

I just beat Top Player twice, bit it was much less fun than Professional leve;. On Pro you have more time and the dribbling is more effective. I prefer Pro level, the games are alot closer as well, due to me attempting mazy runs et al.
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What do you mean with the shooting part? It's not about just tapping it anymore? I've been tapping it only so far, like last year :SHOCK:
 
God I wish it saved your user data. Even if it was just until you switch off.

Have people done the challenges yet? The defensive one clicked for me yesterday almost by magic. I'd been struggling in the early hours of Monday, they seemed impossible. Then yesterday, after a few more matches, I almost completed them first time.
 
AI tore me a new one here;

Nice cut back and see how the AI attacker stumbles past a challenge before drilling in a low shot for a goal;

YouTube - 240811_0136.MOV

Nice move again;

YouTube - 240811_0139.MOV

and this time the AI stands off with the ball and toys with me while I'm jockeying from a distance. Never seen the AI do this in a football game before. Really, really nice;

YouTube - 240811_0140.MOV

These are only on Professional level by the way :)
 
_anderson said:
What do you mean with the shooting part? It's not about just tapping it anymore? I've been tapping it only so far, like last year :SHOCK:
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Shooting in general isn't as sensitive, you can tap shoot from distance and still shoot low into the corner though. The subtlety of using R2 before and during the shot charge is still there thankfully though, you can still get more accurate shots holding R2 before and during the shot. I personally don't really tap R2 after shots, so that's not much of an issue for me.
 
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_anderson said:
What do you mean with the shooting part? It's not about just tapping it anymore? I've been tapping it only so far, like last year :SHOCK:
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It was never always just about the R2 tap, in PES 11 you could max it our from the edge of the box for lofted control shots. The edge of the box was the limit though, now it's further with a long press.
 
Finally, I've managed to sit down and get some time with this demo. Without going into too much depth - as I broadly agree with the community consensus on the pros and cons of this game - I can safely say this will be the best football game on this generation of consoles. A PES5 beater? Maybe, time will tell. However, PES2012 will render FIFA 12 irrelevant for me.

There's no doubt about it, this is a fine game of football. Anyone who calls themselves a serious football fan should be all over this. Every move has to be considered, every goal earned, mistakes are often punished.

This is the thinking man's football game. I love it.

The keepers will need sorting as they are very poor in this code, and the shooting could be better, but I'm confident we will see improvements in demo number 2.

Graphically, the game looks decent. The crowd and stadia seem to have a bit more clarity, the pitch looks lovely, and the kits are nice and detailed close-up. I'm enjoying the pitch-side cam, too. Even the sound has been markedly improved (although still not good enough).
 
Really enjoyed the demo, love that I can actually play a footie game without being pressured all the time, I can actually have lots of space rather then be chased around like mad in past footy games. game plays very realistic but the only main problems are the Goal keepers are shocking but hope they will be fixed.
 
Sorry to keep bombarding the board, I'm kinda playing as I'm typing :)

Just tried playing as Santos, the South American games feel more fun to play for me. I'm getting to grips with the dribbling but it still feels too easy to dribble past players with almost anyone, some of the individuality seems missing to me from player to player :(

That said, Neymar, on the other hand, is amazing.....I must have dribbled down the wing, cut inside, before almost fending off about 6 challenges and cutting in towards goal before a herd of desperate defenders crowded him out. Almost an amazing goal.....dribbling doesn't feel very different from player to player BUT the skill of the player on the ball seems to dictate how the AI sets about defending. Dribble with Gattuso and they bomb into you and take the ball fairly quickly, mainly after beating the first man, but Neymar seemed to make the AI hold off and think about things. He could naturally ride a series of challenges that Gattuso couldn't.

Two points though that seem relevant. First, offsides. PES2011 was inundated with them and drew a lot of criticism, but with this, six games in and I think I've yet to see one single offside. Not a big deal really, it's just helping the flow of games, but it needs to be more frequent than that.

Second, and I might be wrong, but the dive button where you click both sticks 'in' seems to have been canned. Good job, it was next to useless. Even if you were inclined to use it, it never won you a free kick and always resulted in a yellow card, so it never got used even if you wanted to. Which I didn't. Glad to see it's probably been shelved.
 
Jamezinho said:
Finally, I've managed to sit down and get some time with this demo. Without going into too much depth - as I broadly agree with the community consensus on the pros and cons of this game - I can safely say this will be the best football game on this generation of consoles. A PES5 beater? Maybe, time will tell. However, PES2012 will render FIFA 12 irrelevant for me.

There's no doubt about it, this is a fine game of football. Anyone who calls themselves a serious football fan should be all over this. Every move has to be considered, every goal earned, mistakes are often punished.

This is the thinking man's football game. I love it.

The keepers will need sorting as they are very poor in this code, and the shooting could be better, but I'm confident we will see improvements in demo number 2.

Graphically, the game looks decent. The crowd and stadia seem to have a bit more clarity, the pitch looks lovely, and the kits are nice and detailed close-up. I'm enjoying the pitch-side cam, too. Even the sound has been markedly improved (although still not good enough).
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Starting to agree with you the more I play it, but not about the graphics as I've said higher up the board. Hopefully Jimmy will be right that they'll be sharpened up come release, because I find them far lower resolution than PES2011 even. The pitch does look lovely under the low res textures, and animations are much much better to the point where they actively improve gameplay, but those textures are just way too low resolution. Replays are fine, same as in PES2011, but in general gameplay there's a definite pixelated, blocky blurriness to the player models.
 
LTFC said:
Second, and I might be wrong, but the dive button where you click both sticks 'in' seems to have been canned. Good job, it was next to useless.
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wrong, it's still in, L3+R3+L1+L2 this time (check commands on pause screen)

but you're not wrong about it being useless :))

YouTube - Schwalbes / diving PES 2009 & 2010 Tutorial

well you would need to wait for tackle...starting to think about mastering it, that's some infuriating stuff to do in online mode :P
 
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The thing about the dive function is that it could have been decent enough but there's no point in it being in at the moment. The word Dive connotes an implication that the user would be cheating by going down after not being touched but if they'd have persevered with refining the system we could have been left with a situation where it was used to simply go down easier when under a challenge and being overly pressured by an opponent. It is not a dive as such, just going down easier in order to try to win a foul. This is just part and parcel of any football match now. The way it was used in one of the old PES' where you could use it to go down when your shirt was being tugged is what i'm getting at. It was pretty random if i recall from my brief stint with PES 2008. I remember winning a penalty once and failing miserably every other time i attempted it.

Do i want the dive function in? I'm not really for or against it but if Konami are so damn keen on keeping it in as they have done with the past 3 iterations it may as well serve a purpose sometimes. I think it's impossible at current to win a foul through it, or at least it seems to be that way since 2010. It'd need some randomness to mean it didn't get exploited, perhaps way more often than not working than it does even when it looks like you've made the 'dive' at the perfect time.
 
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Forgot all about the shirt pulling, wonder why that never made it into later versions?

Either way, I'm seeing the AI do some pretty deft things in this demo. Let's hope it stays this way for the final game.
 
So I've tried the Barcelona team from PES edit on the PC demo, and the Fifa-ness really did sink in when I got a hold of Messi. He does the thing just like in Fifa where a player will take 500 touches on the ball whenever he does a circle (dribble).
 
mr_man said:
So I've tried the Barcelona team from PES edit on the PC demo, and the Fifa-ness really did sink in when I got a hold of Messi. He does the thing just like in Fifa where a player will take 500 touches on the ball whenever he does a circle (dribble).
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Oh goody :CONFUSE:
 
Yea I guess lol. By the way, an absolute joy to play with Barca, really did feel like I had the team in my hands, MU had a very hard time breaking my defense down, and Xavi was laying down the law with the passes towards the MVP.
 
I said it on the PC Demo board earlier but i have a big issue with the jockeying. The jockey is great, well it looks good, but you jockey backwards at the same speed as the opponent dribbles forward so that the gap between you both is always constant. It almost locks you into place. The speed of jockeying backwards needs to be slower, or at least variable based on how much the user is pushing the joystick, so that the space between you both can become incrementally smaller so that you're then able to go in for a challenge because he;s effectively dribbled too close to you. Far too often i'm finding that i'm just backing away from the player and that it doesn't put him off attacking at all because there's still so much space between us. I can go for a challenge but far too often he'll just ghost past me because i have to cover so much ground forward in order to do so.

I can jockey forwards but i don't always want to go forward as such, mostly for fear of them ghosting past me. I want to go backwards but slower so that if the player dribbles too close to me i am then in a better position to go in for a challenge rather than having to cover loads of ground myself in order to do so.

YouTube - PES 2012 hold-up play

Even the official video highlights what i'm getting at. The constant distance between them, that's what i'm experiencing. The tackle at the end is only made because the defender jockeys sidewards and then stands still as the dribbler runs too close to him.
 
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LTFC said:
That said, Neymar, on the other hand, is amazing.....I must have dribbled down the wing, cut inside, before almost fending off about 6 challenges and cutting in towards goal before a herd of desperate defenders crowded him out. Almost an amazing goal.....dribbling doesn't feel very different from player to player BUT the skill of the player on the ball seems to dictate how the AI sets about defending. Dribble with Gattuso and they bomb into you and take the ball fairly quickly, mainly after beating the first man, but Neymar seemed to make the AI hold off and think about things. He could naturally ride a series of challenges that Gattuso couldn't.
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They gameplan differently, too. Playing earlier with Milan and the CPU would hound Robinho with two players all over the pitch. They were doing anything to keep him from even touching the ball.

I can't wait to see the full game and see how the CPU may react to different players and tendencies.

Two points though that seem relevant. First, offsides. PES2011 was inundated with them and drew a lot of criticism, but with this, six games in and I think I've yet to see one single offside. Not a big deal really, it's just helping the flow of games, but it needs to be more frequent than that.
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I don't see a lot, but I do still see the ever annoying "ball traveling backwards but some idiot offsides bloke decides to come retrieve it" call still there.
 
Northzzz said:
I said it on the PC Demo board earlier but i have a big issue with the jockeying. The jockey is great, well it looks good, but you jockey backwards at the same speed as the opponent dribbles forward so that the gap between you both is always constant. It almost locks you into place. The speed of jockeying backwards needs to be slower, or at least variable based on how much the user is pushing the joystick, so that the space between you both can become incrementally smaller so that you're then able to go in for a challenge because he;s effectively dribbled too close to you. Far too often i'm finding that i'm just backing away from the player and that it doesn't put him off attacking at all because there's still so much space between us. I can go for a challenge but far too often he'll just ghost past me because i have to cover so much ground forward in order to do so.

I can jockey forwards but i don't always want to go forward as such, mostly for fear of them ghosting past me. I want to go backwards but slower so that if the player dribbles too close to me i am then in a better position to go in for a challenge rather than having to cover loads of ground myself in order to do so.

Even the official video highlights what i'm getting at. The constant distance between them, that's what i'm experiencing. The tackle at the end is only made because the defender jockeys sidewards and then stands still as the dribbler runs too close to him.
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I understand what you're saying, but if you don't like the automatic jockeying, you can always do it manually. It takes alot of practice but when mastered it's a lot more effective than konami's automatic implementation.
 
Hrm, so sunk a couple hours in now, and my honest opinion...it's not that great.

Attacking is a lot nicer now, for all the reasons people have gone on about, but I have some major issues, all really to do with playing the CPU:

1. The old CPU tug back is heavily used. You're running down the wing, then a CPU player pulls you back, you conveniently stumble and the lose the ball. For the life of me I cannot do it to their wingers, mind.

2. When it wants to, the CPU can take any player and turn them into Messi. I just had Napoli's DMF beat 4 of my defenders and score. All by running straight at them, and the shifting as soon as I try to defend. If I jockey, the CPU just runs slightly to the side.

3. While it's nice to see the CPU actually scoring (after playing a lot of PES 2011 and not seeing it often enough) I get the feeling there are going to be lots and lots of CPU unstoppable goals.

4. Defending isn't hard, it's broken. A CPU player with the ball should not be able waltz about in circles while my players momentum constantly takes me straight past them. I don't want FIFA, but I do want to feel like it's fair, and it doesn't feel that way right now.

5. The player ratings worry me. How can Berbatov have a C in technique? If he does, what hope do the rest of the world have?

6. It still feels too loose to me. Especially on defense. I definitely don't feel like I have control over my players enough to tackle successfully.

Maybe it's just me, but I've been playing these games a very long time and know what I'm doing. And everytime there's a new demo release we get all excited and claim how pretty the emperor's new clothes are. And defending in this game is definitely that for me.
 
I wish i was playing the pc version to record a goal i socred with Rooney aganst my brtoher.

It was beautiful and i have never seen such a lifelike goal in history.
 
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