Feanaro
League 2
- 2 December 2005
I sometimes can cancel lofted passes with R1 + R2, but not shots.
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PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......
- Thread starter Jimmy G-Force
- Start date
I sometimes can cancel lofted passes with R1 + R2, but not shots.
Pere Ubu
Championship
- 29 October 2002
1. Has anyone else tried the penalty system? I had two pads connected tonight, using the second one to hack down players in the box, so I could try a few pens - I haven't been given one in a game yet.
And wouldn't you just know it. Yet again something's been dumbed down (rather than properly explained by Konami) because people who didn't understand it claimed it was "broken". Sure the PES2011 penalty system wasn't so great in its execution, but it was a good skill-based system which made sense, and it needed refining not ditching.
Well it's been ditched, and unless I'm mistaken, the new system really is broken. It just seems to have gone back to PS2 days - aim and shoot, nothing else - but much much dumber, because get this: I'm not sure it's actually possible to miss. I mean literally. I took 5 penalties with Hulk, and I was deliberately trying to shoot high and wide with the last three. No luck! I mean, you max out the power gauge, push the stick as far as it'll go and hold it there... sure recipe for a Waddle-in-Italia-90-style disaster, right? Um, no. It gives you a very powerful and (presumably unsaveable) shot into the very top corner.
Seriously, that bad. I hope I'm wrong (I couldn't be arsed to do more than 5 because it's actually not that easy to walk the ball into the box with one pad and then foul that player with the other). But if it really is this bad, and you can hit an unstoppable penalty every time by doing what is technically the easiest (and logically the worst) thing you could possibly do in a penalty situation, that does raise the prospect of some interesting penalty shoot-outs online. The game goes to penalties at 10pm; both players are still there at 4am, wondering which one will be first to crack and just switch off the PS3 and go to bed.
2. Anyone else as worried as me that the specific reason why goalkeepers are so bad seems ominously unfixable at short notice? I.e. the fact that they dive from a standing start every time - they have no animation for a side-step shuffle across the box, so every dive is like a lamppost toppling over and as a result they can never reach the corners. I mean, it's not just that their reaction times need to be patched (although they do, they really really do). It's that their whole system is wrong. Their behaviour needs to change completely, and you need a bunch of new animations there - and this needs to be balanced against the shooting. How much better are they going to get? Jon Murphy keeps saying they're the priority, understandably, but are they going to be able to stick in a totally new goalkeeper system in a few weeks, when this was the best they could do after a year?
The smart money could be on bizarre "leap tall buildings in a single bound"-type dives (from a standing start) once final code rolls around. God I hope not. Still, it'd be better than this.
3. I had the ball on the left wing, in my own half, with Ashley Young. I hit a 12-yard pass infield to Park Ji-Sung. Put down the pad, went into the kitchen, put the kettle on, walked around the kitchen whistling until it had boiled, poured it into the teacup, stirred, scratched my head, waited a few minutes for it to brew, added the milk, had a sip, walked back into the front room and picked up the pad - just in time for Park to receive the ball.
4. It's a good game though. Weirdly, the more I play, the less extreme the speed seems. It's still way too fast at times, and the movement of the players when dribbling and turning is way WAY too fast (emphasised by the unbelievably slow pace of the ball in flight or across the ground), but at other times the game speed drops, sometimes even to a pleasing crawl. At which point you can really see all the good things in here, which I hope will be brought out in the second demo and the finished game. It's already good, and more fun overall than PES2011 (which was starting to look very rusty indeed, even before this demo came out), but it could still be really, REALLY good, if everything ends up coming together. But I'm not what you'd call a born optimist. Very much hoping to be pleasantly surprised.
And wouldn't you just know it. Yet again something's been dumbed down (rather than properly explained by Konami) because people who didn't understand it claimed it was "broken". Sure the PES2011 penalty system wasn't so great in its execution, but it was a good skill-based system which made sense, and it needed refining not ditching.
Well it's been ditched, and unless I'm mistaken, the new system really is broken. It just seems to have gone back to PS2 days - aim and shoot, nothing else - but much much dumber, because get this: I'm not sure it's actually possible to miss. I mean literally. I took 5 penalties with Hulk, and I was deliberately trying to shoot high and wide with the last three. No luck! I mean, you max out the power gauge, push the stick as far as it'll go and hold it there... sure recipe for a Waddle-in-Italia-90-style disaster, right? Um, no. It gives you a very powerful and (presumably unsaveable) shot into the very top corner.
Seriously, that bad. I hope I'm wrong (I couldn't be arsed to do more than 5 because it's actually not that easy to walk the ball into the box with one pad and then foul that player with the other). But if it really is this bad, and you can hit an unstoppable penalty every time by doing what is technically the easiest (and logically the worst) thing you could possibly do in a penalty situation, that does raise the prospect of some interesting penalty shoot-outs online. The game goes to penalties at 10pm; both players are still there at 4am, wondering which one will be first to crack and just switch off the PS3 and go to bed.
2. Anyone else as worried as me that the specific reason why goalkeepers are so bad seems ominously unfixable at short notice? I.e. the fact that they dive from a standing start every time - they have no animation for a side-step shuffle across the box, so every dive is like a lamppost toppling over and as a result they can never reach the corners. I mean, it's not just that their reaction times need to be patched (although they do, they really really do). It's that their whole system is wrong. Their behaviour needs to change completely, and you need a bunch of new animations there - and this needs to be balanced against the shooting. How much better are they going to get? Jon Murphy keeps saying they're the priority, understandably, but are they going to be able to stick in a totally new goalkeeper system in a few weeks, when this was the best they could do after a year?
The smart money could be on bizarre "leap tall buildings in a single bound"-type dives (from a standing start) once final code rolls around. God I hope not. Still, it'd be better than this.
3. I had the ball on the left wing, in my own half, with Ashley Young. I hit a 12-yard pass infield to Park Ji-Sung. Put down the pad, went into the kitchen, put the kettle on, walked around the kitchen whistling until it had boiled, poured it into the teacup, stirred, scratched my head, waited a few minutes for it to brew, added the milk, had a sip, walked back into the front room and picked up the pad - just in time for Park to receive the ball.
4. It's a good game though. Weirdly, the more I play, the less extreme the speed seems. It's still way too fast at times, and the movement of the players when dribbling and turning is way WAY too fast (emphasised by the unbelievably slow pace of the ball in flight or across the ground), but at other times the game speed drops, sometimes even to a pleasing crawl. At which point you can really see all the good things in here, which I hope will be brought out in the second demo and the finished game. It's already good, and more fun overall than PES2011 (which was starting to look very rusty indeed, even before this demo came out), but it could still be really, REALLY good, if everything ends up coming together. But I'm not what you'd call a born optimist. Very much hoping to be pleasantly surprised.
tc811
Resident Evo-Web Retard
I'm not thrilled about the penalties. I can't believe Konami dumbed it down because people couldn't figure it out.
Okay defending help please:
How do you defend when an attacker is running straight at you? If I hold R2, they can just run by because the R2 shuffle is too slow. If I go in straight, they perform a miracle feint and go right by me (no matter who has the ball). If I call over a teammate, they will foul, or just miss. Unless I have the best defender on my team, the odds of my X tackle seem to be about 10% success.
Playing against Napoli is a nightmare, because all of their attackers just go in a straight line at your midfielder, and I cannot for the life of me stop them consistently.
It's so much fun with the ball, but I hate the feeling of helplessness as I watch a relatively mediocre midfield dance his way through 5 challenges to score.
One more thing - has anyone seen their attackers make runs in behind when the field is open in front of them? I was just playing as United, had a break from a corner and Chicharito ran, essentially, a completely horizontal run across the defense, rather than creating a channel for me to pass into. Surely they haven't taken out the forward runs from the game? Looked soooo unrealistic seeing a player known for darting, penetrative runs basically showing for the ball on a counter attack.
How do you defend when an attacker is running straight at you? If I hold R2, they can just run by because the R2 shuffle is too slow. If I go in straight, they perform a miracle feint and go right by me (no matter who has the ball). If I call over a teammate, they will foul, or just miss. Unless I have the best defender on my team, the odds of my X tackle seem to be about 10% success.
Playing against Napoli is a nightmare, because all of their attackers just go in a straight line at your midfielder, and I cannot for the life of me stop them consistently.
It's so much fun with the ball, but I hate the feeling of helplessness as I watch a relatively mediocre midfield dance his way through 5 challenges to score.
One more thing - has anyone seen their attackers make runs in behind when the field is open in front of them? I was just playing as United, had a break from a corner and Chicharito ran, essentially, a completely horizontal run across the defense, rather than creating a channel for me to pass into. Surely they haven't taken out the forward runs from the game? Looked soooo unrealistic seeing a player known for darting, penetrative runs basically showing for the ball on a counter attack.
D
DagsJT
Guest
It's all about the feeling when defending.I hold L1 (your L2) and at first time I try to keep a certain distance between my defender and the attacker.Then I try to make so feints, like I'm going for an interception only not, I try to wait to perfect moment to direct my players towards him.
It's hard to explain in words (specially when english is not my main language) but I would tell not to get discouraged.Defending is difficult at first but if you keep trying you will "click" and find the best way to defend on your own.
I'm not saying the CPU can't dribble past me anymore, of course he still can but I have toned down the way he kept fooling me over and over again
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Liverpool
I did feel dirty though!
Did you test out the diving function?
zeemeister
foxy engine
@pere I conceede a penalty in the first minute of playing the demo for the first time. I body checked Giggs lol.
Heh, I'm of the impression that the majority didn't like the penalty system in PES 2011, so that would be a democratic change. Sometimes the minority has to accept that democracy is not about giving the minority what they want.
Personally, I didn't have much trouble with taking the penalties, but saving felt somewhat random. Also, I hated the viewpoint, taking penalties from the side was just idiotic.
That said, I do think the penalties should be harder to execute, and I think it's way to easy to save a shot (I've saved two shots out of three penalties - btw, we're back to not getting enough penalties again). I also think that this is one of the things that isn't quite finished in the demo, so the penalties might be more difficult for both keeper and executor in the full game.
Personally, I didn't have much trouble with taking the penalties, but saving felt somewhat random. Also, I hated the viewpoint, taking penalties from the side was just idiotic.
That said, I do think the penalties should be harder to execute, and I think it's way to easy to save a shot (I've saved two shots out of three penalties - btw, we're back to not getting enough penalties again). I also think that this is one of the things that isn't quite finished in the demo, so the penalties might be more difficult for both keeper and executor in the full game.
D
DagsJT
Guest
Turns out I didn't need to, he already has this ability to turn a scratch into a major injury so he naturally falls over when someone brushes passed him. Quite convenient really. Maybe in ML it'd say he's going to be out for a month but he magically appears to be available again for the next match, like the serious injury never happened!
Anyway, back on topic
Chimps-with-quiffs
Champions League
- 11 August 2003
My first impressions after two games was that it was awfull. Players seemed to have no weight and hovered about of the floor and so did the ball. It seemened to play a lot more like fifa and lot less realistic.
After a lot more games I like it and feel it's quite a step forward, but players need to have more weight about them.
I have als seen my player switch to another when I have been running after a ball quite a few times.
Not sure if it's just me, but the day time games seem to have less of the problem of floaty weightlessness about them. I can sit and play a few games in a row using one of the teams that gives you a day time game and think to myself this is a great game, then I switch to a team that generates a night time game and it looks a lot worse and plays worse.
After a lot more games I like it and feel it's quite a step forward, but players need to have more weight about them.
I have als seen my player switch to another when I have been running after a ball quite a few times.
Not sure if it's just me, but the day time games seem to have less of the problem of floaty weightlessness about them. I can sit and play a few games in a row using one of the teams that gives you a day time game and think to myself this is a great game, then I switch to a team that generates a night time game and it looks a lot worse and plays worse.
wipsnadepoo
League 2
- 2 October 2010
Anyone interested in the fake names of the Portuguese league teams?
Here's who they match:
List of this year's Master League default players:
Many "classics" missing it seems. Retired perhaps? Also, lots of new ones.
A big number of the retired master league players are under the "MANAGER" section.
What's the manger section???? ?? Are we going to be able edit managers or something? Hope this means we can edit appearances in ML for all club managers
zeemeister
foxy engine
Kicked a rabona with Falcao yesterday. I may post but BB cam looks crap. The feckn keeper saved it shock horror.
DarthKebab
Fully Assisted Noob
- 11 May 2008
How do you shield the ball now? Thought it was R1 but he didn't seem to do it.
- Thread starter
- #6,315
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
Leave the pad/stick in a neutral position.
It was our weekly Lads Night, last night, and although we were a couple of players down, we still went ahead with PES 12 Demo premiere. My brother and my other mate played the first two games, Napoli v Milan, then Napoli v Porto. Wow, seriously WOW. I cant remember watching a game of PES that played out so beautifully for a spectator. The first game ended 2-2 and had everything, including some truly great goals. A couple of long-range efforts, and some stunning curling strikes. The 2nd game was even better, that ended 4-3 Napoli. My brother and my mate, both absolutely loved it from the get-go, both commenting on how superior it felt to PES 2011. I'm going to upload both sets of Highlights tonight, as they were both outstanding in their own right.
This! And not only the passing, the shooting feels like it's in slow motion somehow. I'm having problems on default 0 speed because things go too fast for me. -1 speed solves that.
Perhaps some stat tweaking for passing and shooting speed can solve this.
- Thread starter
- #6,318
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
I have no problem with the shooting either, just give it alot more power than PES 11. Scored some real screamers so far. Strikes from long-range look very realistic, trajectory wise.
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- Staff
- #6,319
What's the manger section???? ?? Are we going to be able edit managers or something? Hope this means we can edit appearances in ML for all club managers
Probably 'random' club bosses for ML.
The goalkeepers have never been right. They need doing from scratch really. They never jump and stretch properly.
Their whole body shape when going for low shots or shots out of reach always looks awkward. They still do that jumping two arms, tried to catch but cant catch animation where the ball almost hits them square in the chest.
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
D
DagsJT
Guest
You sure? I tried that and the player definitely didn't shield the ball, just stopped dead ready to move again. CPU came and took the ball away as easy as it could've wanted.
henrys hand
Premier League
- 2 September 2010
If there is one thing missing besides good goalkeepers it's a sense of speed and especially acceleration... I tried to up gamespeed to +1 but it doesn't help cause it makes the game faster but not more dynamic... Yes dynamic is missing I guess.
What are your perceptions regarding that aspect?
What are your perceptions regarding that aspect?
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D
DagsJT
Guest
Speed and acceleration feel great to me. Shits me up when I see the likes of Robinho and co sprinting at me.
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
I am slightly worried at how good "average" dribbler's are. Fletcher, Carrick, Gattuso and the like are a bit to good on the ball.
D
DagsJT
Guest
That does need to be toned down a little, I agree.
Looks like community impressions are very mixed. Personally I'm pretty confident a lot of the niggles will be sorted by final release.
I think what will further improve the final experience from the demo is longer games. As a lot of people noted for PES2011 (and it's true for older versions too), the game plays better with 15 or 20 minute games rather than 10 minute games. Here's hoping that longer games will lead to a more considered pace, with the AI perhaps passing it around and backwards a little more.
Also commentary should add to the experience, as will playing games with something riding on the outcome, rather than endless exhibition games. Compare and contrast pointless international friendlies to big tournament games, huge difference.
In summary, I think we'll get a great final game this year.
I think what will further improve the final experience from the demo is longer games. As a lot of people noted for PES2011 (and it's true for older versions too), the game plays better with 15 or 20 minute games rather than 10 minute games. Here's hoping that longer games will lead to a more considered pace, with the AI perhaps passing it around and backwards a little more.
Also commentary should add to the experience, as will playing games with something riding on the outcome, rather than endless exhibition games. Compare and contrast pointless international friendlies to big tournament games, huge difference.
In summary, I think we'll get a great final game this year.
- Thread starter
- #6,328
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
Yes bud, I tried it yesterday. Although there were two animations with a slight delay between standing still and then him holding out his arm and moving to the sheild position.
henrys hand
Premier League
- 2 September 2010
I agree, playing PES 2011 on 25 minutes is far more enjoyable for me than on 10 minutes and playing the modes, be it championsleague or master league is more interesting and more challenging than exhibition matches, except for them being always played at night which looks not so well.
The second demo will probably be way better than this one, and the retail-version will be better because of the additional modes, time-options and the ability to save settings!
D
DagsJT
Guest
Interesting, I'll give it another try tonight. Cheers!