PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

I'm starting to believe that the reason for the two demo's was to try and sway the Fifa crowd early doors. With the animations and fluidity alot better, I truly believe this was Konami's primary driver in this regard. It has certainly worked with some members on Evo-Web already.

As a PES only player, the second demo now has me really intrigued. I can see where the current demo needs improving, and any blatant flaws I would expect to be down to an unfinished stage of relevant code.
 
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ollywolly said:
Looks like community impressions are very mixed. Personally I'm pretty confident a lot of the niggles will be sorted by final release.
I think what will further improve the final experience from the demo is longer games. As a lot of people noted for PES2011 (and it's true for older versions too), the game plays better with 15 or 20 minute games rather than 10 minute games. Here's hoping that longer games will lead to a more considered pace, with the AI perhaps passing it around and backwards a little more.
Also commentary should add to the experience, as will playing games with something riding on the outcome, rather than endless exhibition games. Compare and contrast pointless international friendlies to big tournament games, huge difference.
In summary, I think we'll get a great final game this year.
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I agree, It is well documented on these boards from players like Klash & Jimmy that 15 minutes are good match times, although Klash likes to push the times further. It is so hard to replicate everything in 10 mins so you get like an highlights type simulation.

In saying that though it maybe just me but these 10 min games on the demo seem longer, and i think its down to the fact that you have to concentrate so much more otherwise the AI will destroy you. thats my take on it anyway.
 
ollywolly said:
Looks like community impressions are very mixed. Personally I'm pretty confident a lot of the niggles will be sorted by final release.
I think what will further improve the final experience from the demo is longer games. As a lot of people noted for PES2011 (and it's true for older versions too), the game plays better with 15 or 20 minute games rather than 10 minute games. Here's hoping that longer games will lead to a more considered pace, with the AI perhaps passing it around and backwards a little more.
Also commentary should add to the experience, as will playing games with something riding on the outcome, rather than endless exhibition games. Compare and contrast pointless international friendlies to big tournament games, huge difference.
In summary, I think we'll get a great final game this year.
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fully agree with this
 
I held up the ball with Zlatan a few times, IIRC I used :l2:

Has anyone had any success in getting Hulk and Varela (playing as inverted wingers) into iso situations with the opposing fullbacks?
 
Buzzyhead said:
In saying that though it maybe just me but these 10 min games on the demo seem longer, and i think its down to the fact that you have to concentrate so much more otherwise the AI will destroy you. thats my take on it anyway.
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I've actually thought that, and I also think it's to do with you needing to concentrate all the time now rather than just rely on pressure to easily win the ball back.

Of the negatives like keepers, shooting, refs etc, I'm expecting them to be fixed up. I'd be very surprised if they weren't. And that makes PES 2012 a fantastic game.
 
after playing it for a few days, i gotta say this is not what i expected from pes 2012, even though i know this is a early code.

1)even when your in great possition , the ball seems to have a mind of its own when shooting, over the bar so much times from inside the box.

2) pace? where the hell is it gone, it seems is that you have no option but to play slow + passing style football

3) active ai >.< really ? unless theirs an option to turn it on i really dont see whats active about this ai. they make a few runs each game, is this something new?

4) crowd atmosphere is dead, san siro feels like a cemetry (sp)

5) to sum up pes 2012 demo = pes 2011 demo with majority of the bugs removed and transitions between animations speeded up



unless the second demo is radically different i guess its fifa 12 (if its worthy of an upgrade to fifa 11, or no footy game this year)
 
Taylor_94 said:
Ive only just noticed there ismt any commentary in the demo!
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Haha!! in other developments (just in case you hadn't noticed) televisions can now show colour pictures and we moved from the 20th to the 21st century.

Speaking seriously about commentary, has there been any news on it? Saw Fifa release a few videos behind the scenes with their commentary team and mentioning how there will be a lot of relevant commentary for whats going on in your wider game world (new signings, win streaks etc). Haven't seen any PES related commentary news though.
 
DagsJT said:
I've actually thought that, and I also think it's to do with you needing to concentrate all the time now rather than just rely on pressure to easily win the ball back.
Of the negatives like keepers, shooting, refs etc, I'm expecting them to be fixed up. I'd be very surprised if they weren't. And that makes PES 2012 a fantastic game.
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Fully agree, totally wrecked 2011 by allowing this, it also rendered their defensive system useless in most cases. They must not let this happen again by pandering to the people who dont understand what a football sim is.
 
henrys hand said:
If there is one thing missing besides good goalkeepers it's a sense of speed and especially acceleration... I tried to up gamespeed to +1 but it doesn't help cause it makes the game faster but not more dynamic... Yes dynamic is missing I guess.

What are your perceptions regarding that aspect?
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Are you serious? I think they have got that spot on. One of the CFs in the Penarol team has the explosive power stat at around 80 and from a dead stop he will leave defenders dead, the sense of speed he gives when accelerating is very good.
Are you playing with the teams in exhibition mode? Maybe I noticed the quick acceleration more because none of the other Penarol players are that good in this area.
 
Just listened to the WENB podcast. A lot of talk doing the rounds among journalists that the demo is an inferior code to the playtest. Would definitely explain a lot.
 
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Jess said:
Just listened to the WENB podcast. A lot of talk doing the rounds among journalists that the demo is an inferior code to the playtest. Would definitely explain a lot.
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Inferior as 'older than playtest, thus inferior' or (hope not) 'newer than playtest, but inferior'?
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
I'm starting to believe that the reason for the two demo's was to try and sway the Fifa crowd early doors. With the animations and fluidity alot better, I truly believe this was Konami's primary driver in this regard. It has certainly worked with some members on Evo-Web already.

As a PES only player, the second demo now has me really intrigued. I can see where the current demo needs improving, and any blatant flaws I would expect to be down to an unfinished stage of relevant code.
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I'm hoping this is the case, it could be a good bit of marketing - first demo wows people with the new AI, new gameplay, but is clearly unfinished so as to not draw too much criticism (as we all assume it'll be polished and fixed up), then release a second demo that will hopefully feature fixed keepers, updated graphics, all the modifications that people recognise.

Two demos causing two 'wow' factors in different stages is a good way of promoting the game IMO.

On another topic, it's interesting that a lot of people still don't like the shooting. I love it already. It's far less sensitive, making it easier to choose whether you hit low shots or high ones. The speed of shots seems much more realistic, no more bizarrely fast rocket strikes from miles out for one thing. I don't know why but PES2011's system of having to tap the button as fast and light as humanly possible to get a low shot in was odd. Oh, and nice to see R2 being used in all the ways you could before. I used it with Neymar to curl in a beauty from the edge of the box. Really nice.

Some other things I've noticed that are really good improvements over 2011;

- Through balls. No more bizarrely strong through passes that automatically bypass defenders. Great! Though my favourite use, playing in attacking full backs, is a bit more 'locked' on than last year. In 2011 you could use through pass to play backward passes into the path of players.

- There's a new dash button when standing still, if you hold R1 and R2 when stationary, then move in any direction the player will make a sudden dash at top speed. Could be useful on the wings.

- Second man control. I've tried it on manual, it's hard, but in rare instances I've actually needed to use it, it's been great just on auto. Bringing deep lying full backs into play, who are off screen, is now possible thanks to this function.

A couple of problems through. First, the use of R2 to stop and turn on the ball quite often doesn't seem to respond at all, particularly if slowly jogging. It worked in PES2011, not sure if this is deliberate or a bug with button commands.

Second, I may be wrong (as I was with the diving button) but you know where you pass to a team mate, and you could hold R1 to make him let the ball pass through his legs and immediately turn and run onto the ball? Well, it doesn't seem to do it in the demo. He either traps the ball then turns with it, or stands still and lifts his leg to allow the ball to pass through but doesn't run after it.

Has this been removed now? I used it lots in previous games.
 
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Anyone else finding the lobbed through-ball is a little too accurate? I'm noticing wingers making runs, hit the high ball to them and it's nearly always pixel perfect really, just cutting out the defender and right onto the toe of my winger.

Using the default passing assistance so maybe that's contributing but shouldn't be so easy on those settings. Also doesn't really seem to matter who the centre-mid is that's making the pass, they all seem to be like Alonso.

Or maybe I'm good at passing anyway :LOL:
 
LTFC said:
I don't know why but PES2011's system of having to tap the button as fast and light as humanly possible to get a low shot in was odd. .

Second, I may be wrong (as I was with the diving button) but you know where you pass to a team mate, and you could hold R1 to make him let the ball pass through his legs and immediately turn and run onto the ball? Well, it doesn't seem to do it in the demo. He either traps the ball then turns with it, or stands still and lifts his leg to allow the ball to pass through but doesn't run after it.
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The first answer is that Konami do this every year, they alternate how much power you need for shooting based on the de-press. I'm sure it's their way of making us learn how to shoot again in the newest version. Every year it's been the same for as far back as I can remember. PES 9 was a very little press, PES 10 was much long, PES 11 a little press, PES 12 alot longer. The same goes for old-gen PES as well.

It's funny because every alternate year we get differing concerns after the demo's or release. Last year it was the year of "Shit, how do you shoot ? I keep blasting the ball over the bar ", this year it's already " The shooting is broke, you cant get any power". I laugh every year at these.:LOL:

The second question, try pressing R2 and moving the stick in the direction you wish the ball to pass through, that usually works.



Dags, I mentioned these lobbed through-balls before, I think they have got them spot on. Very 50/50 in the outcome, which I like alot. We now see jostling and fighting for the ball, with the defender not always getting the advantage. It's a very realistic tussle that plays out, and sometimes the striker then leaves the defender for dead. This was never the case in PES 11, the defender just 'moved out of the way' to let the pass complete, or he just barged the striker causing the 'stumble'. Artistic licence that was far too blatant, I never like that from the get-go, same applied to grounded through-balls.

Edit - I hope they really address this 'Pass to a different player bug'. It makes the game feel very 'on-rails' and old PES, very different from PES 11's freedom.
 
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henrys hand said:
I agree, playing PES 2011 on 25 minutes is far more enjoyable for me than on 10 minutes and playing the modes, be it championsleague or master league is more interesting and more challenging than exhibition matches, except for them being always played at night which looks not so well.

The second demo will probably be way better than this one, and the retail-version will be better because of the additional modes, time-options and the ability to save settings!
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True.

10 minutes has no longer that feeling of real challenging and realism, not even 15 tbh.

It was very evident in pes 2011 that quick forward passing game in 10 minutes has that lucky feeling (no much skills) feeling when the ball ended up under the control of a striker, it was a lo easer playing like this as the creating chances rate must suit with lengh time.

You need to play at least 20 minutes to feel a more realistic balance on the game. Possession football doesn't suit with 10 or even 15 minutes match. Simple as that.

If pes 2012 really has a great AI (and i'm sure it will), the longer the better.

Unfortunetly multiplayer games won't have that realistic experience. You will hardly find anyone who would like to play longer matchs.
 
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DagsJT said:
Anyone else finding the lobbed through-ball is a little too accurate? I'm noticing wingers making runs, hit the high ball to them and it's nearly always pixel perfect really, just cutting out the defender and right onto the toe of my winger.

Using the default passing assistance so maybe that's contributing but shouldn't be so easy on those settings. Also doesn't really seem to matter who the centre-mid is that's making the pass, they all seem to be like Alonso.

Or maybe I'm good at passing anyway :LOL:
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yeah it's a bit too accurate but i like the trajectory less high floaty lob. I remember reading that the cheap tactic of through ball from kick off has been diminished.

I like the fact that they've gone back to using the power bar fully and full clearances don't go out the stadium. And yeah the variety of r2 shooting is back.
 
henrys hand said:
If there is one thing missing besides good goalkeepers it's a sense of speed and especially acceleration...
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DagsJT said:
Anyone else finding the lobbed through-ball is a little too accurate? I'm noticing wingers making runs, hit the high ball to them and it's nearly always pixel perfect really, just cutting out the defender and right onto the toe of my winger.
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I'd respond to these two things together: 1. no and 2. yes.

I was playing as Santos last night, I was controlling Charles (their very average central midfielder) on a counter attack, had just reached the centre circle - looked up and saw Neymar making a run down the left, so I thought "why not" and tried a 40-yard lofted through ball into his path. It soared, curled and dropped perfectly in exactly the right place for him to sprint onto... and it was a pretty hopeful ball. I mean, passing is probably the thing I'm best at in PES, but this was the kind of pass you'd expect from a young Michel Platini or something, the kind of thing that'd earn a massive round of applause from the crowd. Looked great, but much too easy to pull off with a player like that.

Anyway, Neymar was in a foot race with the Penarol right back - he overtook him easily on the way to the ball, accelerated again as he got there, and left him 10 yards behind. He got there with so much time to spare that I could actually cut inside, run at goal unchallenged and score. It looked awesome, but again, maybe a little too easy.


ollywolly said:
Looks like community impressions are very mixed. Personally I'm pretty confident a lot of the niggles will be sorted by final release.
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Wish I was that confident. I'm hopeful, but not relaxed about it. Some things, like the weird messed-up passing assistance, are just errors, they can be easily fixed and presumably will be. Other things seem like they lie a bit deeper in the code, and I'd say the chances of those things having been fixed is a bit slimmer.


ollywolly said:
Speaking seriously about commentary, has there been any news on it? Saw Fifa release a few videos behind the scenes with their commentary team and mentioning how there will be a lot of relevant commentary for whats going on in your wider game world (new signings, win streaks etc). Haven't seen any PES related commentary news though.
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The commentary will suck. I mean come on, you're not expecting any serious improvements are you? This is PES. "The sun is shining and the wind is shooting through the stadium." If a PES game ever comes out with decent commentary, pigs will fly, the ravens will leave the tower and cities will crumble into the sea. It's going to be absolutely horrible again, and I for one don't give a damn because the first thing I do is switch it off (well, the second thing I do... the first is switch off the music on the menu screen).

PES = laughable commentary. For that to change, Konami would have to start thinking in a very different way about their European market, and about how they outsource certain areas of game development. Not going to happen, certainly not this year.
 
The AI scores lots of stupid goals really! Most of them are from keeper mistakes or one attacker marked by 4 defenders but he manages to have the ball! Really shitty goals from the AI so far.
 
mjsmith2k said:
Just out of interest, did you try super-cancelling to stop your player dead first? (pressing :r1:+:r2: together). Then just let go of everything.
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Nope, I was just moving the player towards the goal slowly whilst waiting for options to open up. Saw the wingers running up and thought I'd let go of the stick to see if he'd turn his back and shield it but instead he just stood there facing the goal with the ball at his feet. No shielding at all. I dunno, maybe I pushed the stick a little or something but I was in full control of the player, he wasn't locked into a run or anything.
 
Playing the Copa Libertadores matches are so much more interesting for me at the moment, there's more diversity in talent and the player individuality is a lot more obvious, though I still have an overall feeling that this game as a whole has lost a bit in that department. Not sure that is surprising when they've removed some stats, it's a concern.
 
Adam_Bhatti Adam Bhatti
Erm, yeh. Fuckin blown away. #PES2012

Adam_Bhatti Adam Bhatti
Sworn to secrecy, so I'm in hype mode. But yeh, fuck the demo.

Adam_Bhatti Adam Bhatti
Wait until next week lads. But just me mindful that...I'm fuckin blown away :))) sit on that, be happy, and be patient :)))
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I've asked what's meant to be happening next week but no reply.
 
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