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PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

kobayashi said:
True, you could say that, then again my mentality is completely different. i don't expect the AI to always make the sensible or 'obvious' run all the time. It's a video game and PES 2011 has many variables and commands so every now and again like every other football game the AI will do something a little ordinary and when you consider you have given them instructions to 'play narrow'. If he runs into the center, i don't get annoyed, i would just use him (that's just me :) ). With PES 2012 seabass acknowledged player runs needed work, so your right to complain but it's only gamebreaking if you rely on the AI to move where you want them to go.
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With Pes my mindset has alway's been that more of a manager. Although i am controlling individual players on the pitch my mindset is that i as the manager is relaying my orders on how the team should play on the pitch. So therefore i dont expect my team to get it right all the time. It's like IRL where you often see managers doing their nut on the touchline. If everything flowed too well all the time the game would become very predictable and boring.

But sometimes i can understand that for a lot of you console users things happen that shows the game still needs work. Although Klash has demonstrated that a lot of issues can be resolved with tactics.
 
It would be really simple. If they wanted to leave it for others to patch, all they'd need to do is increase the number of fake teams with the usual bizarre names with levels of ability ranging from decent to poor, then throw them in the proper order of ability within the four divisions. Simple to do, then let the community of OF editors do the rest. Konami are bizarre, why they never do this is beyond comprehension really.
 
It could be an optional thing to choose in the beginning of ML. So you could do the classic way or add extra divisions with fake teams, that way everyone will be happy.
 
So guys, what kind of changes in regards to the online experience you would like to see in pes 2012 ?

What I really want is that konami don't mess with the ball physics this time, because currently in pes 2011 online ball physics is a bit too fast, a bit pinball like, and i feel that even the contextual erros are a reduced.

Considering that the cursor and the AI will be much improved, through passes will be harder and the crossing will be changed, i'm more worried about the pace of the game and how easy it will be to link forward passes.

oh, i almost forgot... I think the game also needs to rebalance the pressure and fatigue system. IMO konami should get rid of the double pressure. I hate it.
 
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The online experience would be greatly improved by the following;

Stamina/fatigue being properly implemented - Got someone running round like a maniac chasing you down non-stop for 90 minutes? Pass the ball around, let the ball do the work while they exhaust and injure themselves chasing it, then pick them off with ease later on in the match.
It would also stop people abusing the "Speed Merchants" and sprinting down the wings all game, as they would become quite ineffective fairly quickly as well as increasing the effectiveness of players such as Ji Sung Park and Michael Essien who are renowned for their stamina.

Make defending more difficult - I like FIFA's idea this year of implementing a system whereby you need to press a button to tackle rather than just hold one down and home in on the ball carrier like a missile. Means you'd actually need to time your tackles.
Also reduce the effectiveness of the fucking slide tackle!!! :RANT: It does my nut in how difficult this is to counter in PES 2011.

Sort out referees - Kind of following on from the previous point here, if the refs called fouls and played advantage correctly, a more conservative and tactical style of defending would be rewarded.
It would also increase the number of free kicks and penalties to a more realistic level - I havn't had a penalty online for weeks, and free kicks in dangerous positions are few and far between.

Remove the exploits - Add a lot more error to triple-tap low crosses (crossing in general really), give "Speed Merchants" less agility/perfect touches (only Messi can truly dribble like the Speed Merchant card allows).
Make the "kick off chip" ineffective, and improve defender's awareness and ability to intercept constant quick passing as well as improved ability to track the runs triggered by the L1 + X pass.

Encourage variety - There must be about 7000 players in the game, yet only about 100 of them are seen in the online arena.
Maybe the amount of ranking points awarded could decrease after each consecutive game using the same team, and a massive amount of points lost for losing to a weaker team than yours?
Also a system so that in MLO you can only have the elite players by being successful in D1 would help, rather than just how it is now where you can get anyone no matter who you are, as long as you've played enough games.
Sheffield FC are the oldest football club in the world, and have probably played more matches than any other team, but you wouldn't see Messi and Ronaldo signing for them...

The effectiveness of certain types of players (especially target men) and tactics (especially deep defensive lines) should be improved to add further variety to the matches themselves.

Set "Top Player" as the default level for all online modes - As kobayashi has mentioned many times, this makes a huge difference to the intelligence of teammates.

The obvious gameplay/bug fixes - Ball physics, player switching, AI, reduced lag etc.
 
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Any chance of being able to edit the konami adboards this year? Makes the games look a lot more realistic. The premiership championship league 1 and 2 would be awesome for the option file makers.
 
Great post rob.

I wonder if someone at Konami read this forum...

People that are expecting for pes 2012 should give more feedback for improvement in online matchs.

I have absolutley no doubt that pes 2012 offline will be fantastic as you will be able to adjust acording to your taste (gameplay speed, dificult level and the new pass support), so what worries me most is the possibility of konami making online gameplay the way they did for pes 2011, reducing the learning curve a lot.
 
geeg said:
I hope that day will never come.
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Well, if it's not going to be removed, at least they should make it so that if you use it a lot you will mess up your formation shape and give much space toyour opponent.

Keeping your formation in shape defensively using L2 to cover spaces in a intelligent and realistic manner should be A LOT more rewardable (specially in online matchs) then just sprinting around and chasing the ball.

In real life it's much more common to see players positioning themselves to reduce the opponent's alternatives of passing to his teammates. You see pressuring the opponente more often when you see him runnind down the sidelines or when you are close enough from the opponent ball carrier.

In real life it doesn't make sense two players chasing the ball carrier in midfiled as they will leave huge gaps. Double pressure is realisically useful when the opponent is about to cross the ball, not all the fucking time and in midfield on your own defence.
 
As long as the AI isn't clever enough to apply secondary pressure it kind of has to be there. Problem is that your own AI often gets too passive in defence.
 
Is is just me or are some people at pesfan a bit sensitive. I commented on 2 goal of the month entries, one of them being this one:
http://forums.pesfan.com/showthread.php?p=9729303#post9729303

I complained about how the animation looks totally wrong yet it seems some people want to avoid the tough questions. Seriously - I don't think there's anything wrong with praising a goal and bagging the animation?

Also people complaining about floaty shooting yet I post video's of my goals and no one comments since it must be them and not the game lol
 
The animation was bad. So ye they are a bit touchy yes,

They are inconsistent n PES 2011, not outright terrible, just odd at times. The dribbling is great, at times animations are good, just there are loads of strange, casual and like in that video ugly ones.

Then again i haven't had anything that bad animation wise happen to me on the PS3. who knows maybe his disk is scratched a bit? :LOL: Noticed it happens to some people more than others!
 
LOL the scratched disc error...gold haha

I think it's mainly because people are out of position to hit a shot on their weak foot so it makes the animation use their correct foot which ends up looking strange. I'd much rather they got rid of the weak foot frequency and just had weak foot accuracy - this would force you to get into the right position for your preferred foot or risk a hurried shot on your non-preferred foot.
 
i've got right hooked to pes master league, i always sim unless important game aka must win,

so far i've played three seasons with psg, first season got to europa league final, beat in penalties,
didn't half throw a hissy, and the semi finals of the coup de la france, league position:3,
it turned out i was a buying and selling club (picking players up for small fees and selling them on once improved enough with fair bit of investment) second season i was still buying and selling,
mainly picking up youth players as not many players wanted to come due to fact i didn't qualify for champions league and all, first half of the season couldn't have went worse,
lost important players and new players weren't gelling just yet so was near the bottom half of the table and once winter came round,
picked up few players who i beleived would improve what was missing, mainly my midfiled as was playing djourou CDM, but no luck and only could pick up a few defenders,
marched on rest of the season,
finished fith and eventually got gifted with coupe de la france, third season in,
i've invested heavily this time, in all areas and look certain to challenge more for the title (past two seasons finished 20+ from the winner) currently have dzudzsak out for 24 weeks.​
 
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I like the idea of referee's being varied but I don't want to choose. It should be random and/or varied based on the league. For example, referee's in Spain protect the ball player and discourage physical play...and you can con them with a dive ;) haha

Whereas if you play against Barcelona, you always get a player sent off and never get awarded a penalty ;)
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
I like the idea of referee's being varied but I don't want to choose. It should be random and/or varied based on the league. For example, referee's in Spain protect the ball player and discourage physical play...and you can con them with a dive ;) haha

Whereas if you play against Barcelona, you always get a player sent off and never get awarded a penalty ;)
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exactly, Rather than Having non perfect offside decisions that most people here are craving for, we could have the refs do the job so that we could have variations depending on the refs. some refs r prone to mistakes, n we could reaaly blame he ref rather than blaming the game when a decision goes against us..:P
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
I like the idea of referee's being varied but I don't want to choose. It should be random and/or varied based on the league. For example, referee's in Spain protect the ball player and discourage physical play...and you can con them with a dive ;) haha

Whereas if you play against Barcelona, you always get a player sent off and never get awarded a penalty ;)
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:LOL:
 
@DuduBR9; @Gab_


That's the point. Your defense isn't clever enough so (the way I play) you have to select a defender that is not presuring the player with the ball, but one who has to keep position. Then you press 'secondary pressure' and the defender that is nearest to the man with the ball will pressure him while you keep your defense in order.

That's why I prayed Konami not to remove 'seconday pressure'
 
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buzzyhead said:
I agree, Rob you should be on the team at Konami. However i would like to pull you up on this.



I thought it was Notts County or am i getting it wrong with Notts County being the oldest football league club? Either way i take your point,Messi or Ronaldo wouldnt touch em.;)
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Rob is right but so is the fact of Notts County being the oldest all professional Association Football club...
 
geeg said:
@DuduBR9; @Gab_


That's the point. Your defense isn't clever enough so (the way I play) you have to select a defender that is not presuring the player with the ball, but one who has to keep position. Then you press 'secondary pressure' and the defender that is nearest to the man with the ball will pressure him while you keep your defense in order.

That's why I prayed Konami not to remove 'seconday pressure'
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Good tip. I'll try this. But how can i make both players move ? Do i have to hold square only while i'm controlling the other player ?

I hardly use square and X at the same time tho.

I want so much to see this being well balanced in pes 2012:(
 
DuduBR9 said:
Good tip. I'll try this. But how can i make both players move ? Do i have to hold square only while i'm controlling the other player ?

I hardly use square and X at the same time tho.

I want so much to see this being well balanced in pes 2012:(
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I sometimes get surprised by how PES makes my fingers move!!! That's why I keep trying to learn to play guitar :P
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
LOL the scratched disc error...gold haha

I think it's mainly because people are out of position to hit a shot on their weak foot so it makes the animation use their correct foot which ends up looking strange.

I'd much rather they got rid of the weak foot frequency and just had weak foot accuracy - this would force you to get into the right position for your preferred foot or risk a hurried shot on your non-preferred foot.
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Nah mate, your theory i think is correct. Instead or removing foot frequency just add more animations for players who are exclusivity one footed.

I'm sure that instances like that wont happen with more of them available. Currently there aren't enough.
 
About slide tackles, if you hold R2 you player jumps the tackle, it's not effective all the times but its a option :D
 
kobayashi said:
Nah mate, your theory i think is correct. Instead or removing foot frequency just add more animations for players who are exclusivity one footed.

I'm sure that instances like that wont happen with more of them available. Currently there aren't enough.
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Yeah this is probably it. I saw a goal on youtube last night (either PES 09 or 10) where Rooney curls one into the top corner and he's wrapped his foot around it (like a cross court tennis shot). But the animation looks better there as his body has stepped across more to allow the shot to look possible in real life. It's a short clip and Rooney is in white - might even be the PES 09 demo that the guy is playing.
 
kobayashi said:
Nah mate, your theory i think is correct. Instead or removing foot frequency just add more animations for players who are exclusivity one footed.

I'm sure that instances like that wont happen with more of them available. Currently there aren't enough.
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I actually like it the way it is. In real-life football, players I have seen that are extremely one-sided STILL use their other foot from time to time. Whether it's because they are under pressure and do not have an option, or it's just a reflex - a weak foot get's used more often than you may think. Even if they know they are dreadful on the weaker foot, they still use it. Maybe the Brain knows it has two, so under stress it may automatically use it.

Also, to use myself as an example - I suffered a right foot injury one season, so I was forced to use my weak left foot during recovering/pre-training. What resulted is an almost 60/40% (Strong/Weak) ratio of goals on each foot ever since (albeit not many, I'm not a striker). Would I say that my left foot is still weaker? YES. Would I now use it more frequently? YES. The important thing to note is that i KNOW my right foot is still better, but subconsciously I know the left can perform at times, so I use it without thinking.

For passing, with enough practice I believe any player that practices passing on their weak foot (say at a brink wall with markers, or better yet a mate) could get close to an even accuracy. Passing generally happens at a slower pace, sometimes the ball is standing still &/or under more control (seriously - shooting on the full without a touch is one of the harder skills to learn in the sport, there is a reason why people with that natural ability, or well-trained ability are sought after).

For shooting - usually under more pressure yes, there should be more miss-shots etc from a weak foot. Shooting is different mechanic:
- "power" (longer withdraw from leg)
- "balance" (the whole time the leg swings through the extreme motion)
- "timing" (actually connecting with the ball at the right time and place after shot is let go)
- "xfactor" (the ball could bobble on the ground as it rolls if dribbling while shooting).

The other human/personality factors is tiredness and stress. If it's the 80th minute and a player is shagged/tired, they may just use the foot cause it's there, and moving into position for an ideal stronger foot shot is just too much. Of course if it's the 93rd minute in extra time and there is no other option with seconds left and that's the only option... stressed to shoot on weaker foot ("I scored on that foot last week, so why not?").
 
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