PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Jamezinho said:
My gripes are that they parry the ball too much and are poorly animated, but they are better than in previous years.
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I hated that a lot. If they can't get them to mimic for realistic actions through animation than atleast just make them push the ball away from goal as per real life. The end result would be a lot better IMO because it's not like Fifa where the goalkeeper can push the ball away from goal with ridiculous saves, it'd be more a case of if they can get to the ball then they will aim to push it away from goal and not back into the box.

For the most part i enjoy the fallibility of PES keepers, especially in comparison to Fifa's keepers, but it does mean that even good keepers are generally way worse in the game than in real life and that no keeper is ever really any good.
 
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I personally have no issues with the PES keepers for the most part. I play this game to death and the amount of instances where a keeper makes a silly unrealistic error is very minimal at worst. Keepers dont hold pile-drivers from close range, and even in PES 2011 they parry the ball out of the danger-zone for the most part.

I think some people have accepted that Fifa's superkeepers are the norm. They arent, and they have always been a massive issue for me. They are far too good, far too scripted to the point that any unpredictability with regards shooting from distance or certain areas is completely lost. In saying that, I adore the keeper animations in Fifa, they look absolutely superb, and are varied and relevant. But all this falls down when their telepathy skills kick-in.

You do get the odd silly moment in PES keeper-wise, but for the most part they are solid and react very well.

The most outstanding aspect of the PES 2011 keepers, and this was also apparent in the last few versions, even when they were spill-happy, is the fact they are completely unscripted. By this I mean, they react to the flight of the ball, and not the pre-determined destination of the ball. For example, if a player strikes the ball from outside the box, and the keepers view is obscured, he wont dive or react until he recognises the flight-path. Alternatively, if he see's the flight-path early, and the ball takes a deflection he cant realistically adjust, and he doesnt. I've seen this happen so many times and it does literally blow me away. To program the keepers based on what they can see from their respective position and line of vision is simply amazing in my book. I like nothing better than seeing a keeper react late when a shot is coming through a crowded box. Using the replay feature to give you an insight into what the keeper can see and when is brilliant. I suggest people try this, I have never heard anyone on here mention this before, it's very clever stuff and the exact opposite of how Fifa keepers seem to be programmed.
 
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If you have the PC version, the yair gameplay patch reduces the occurrence of those parries and deflections to incoming attackers.
 
I really don't want them to "fix" the keepers so they end up being FIFA-like.

I don't score or concede an absurd amount of goals from keeper rebounds in PES 2011 (FIFA 08 was ridiculous for this), and the mistakes that they do make are what make each keeper unique - the top keepers rarely seem to make errors for me and hold onto far more shots.

FIFA keepers really are a joke - I remember creating a player with the smallest possible height, heaviest weight, all attributes set to 1 with the preferred position of centre-forward, just to put in goal to score some goals against with my Virtual Pro, and the guy was still making flying saves from bullet shots, making those same telepathic saves from one-on-ones etc.
 
Jamezinho said:
Adam has said that the keepers are his only major concern with PES 2012 in that they haven't really improved from last year in the build he tested. Konami have given their word that they will be fixed but then again we've all heard this before.
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Oh dear :(, well I'm pessimistic at that then! We can only hope Konami will release a animation upgrade which addresses these two main things.

- Add a better, more true to life prone animation for keepers like i suggested earlier.

- Stop keepers from landing on their belly! This is very key. If the keeper tries to make one of those Hollywood. Peter Schmichael like saves then fair enough but Keepers in PES games recent land on their belly WAY too much!

More animations would be nice but Keepers aren't game breaking atm though, just rather ugly in apperance.
 
I would like to see more goalkeeping attributes though - currently it's just these;

Keeper skills
Responsiveness
Agility
Jump
Height
1-on-1 Keeper/Penalty Saver cards

Possibly top speed/accelleration for rushing out and shot power/kicking style for kicking.

I'd like to see these added;

Aerial ability
Command of area
Tendency to punch
Decision making
Eccentricity
Throwing

These are all present in FM, and I feel they would add a lot more individuality and variation to PES' keepers if implemented properly.
 
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some interresting points of the trailer :

animated coach
coach.jpg


new animation during gameplay
animationfault.jpg


look at hands of the defenders
animationsdefense.jpg


gk have new animations !
gkoptimiszed.jpg


colision perfect ! no bug like transparent texture
collision.jpg


camera behind goal
cameramanz.jpg


just one bug found , grey skin for crowd , I hope because still in developpement

greycrowd.jpg
 
Adam from WENB confirm:

"I also want to confirm something.

You have full manual option, as well as semi, from the control menu. This means those who don't want to hold a button to activate it can have it as preset."

Jimmy did you say something about Seabass philosophy? :P:D
 
He also confirmed that it's a preset for all, you can't have shooting manual/crossing semi etc, either all manual/semi/assisted.

I swear they better make sure stats still matter w/ the manual thing, and better make sure they still make a huge difference overall otherwise I will be extremely disappointed.
 
wabak said:
He also confirmed that it's a preset for all, you can't have shooting manual/crossing semi etc, either all manual/semi/assisted.

I swear they better make sure stats still matter w/ the manual thing, and better make sure they still make a huge difference overall otherwise I will be extremely disappointed.
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That's what I'm hoping. Just because it is manual doesn't mean it has to work like FIFA where there's barely no stat influence, all related to human skill. It is PES we're talking about. My main worry is related to passing, they have to make the stats have a real impact into pass accuracy and speed. Regarding shooting, I don't think there's any danger honestly, shooting stats differences are really noticeable already.
 
wabak said:
He also confirmed that it's a preset for all, you can't have shooting manual/crossing semi etc, either all manual/semi/assisted.
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There is no assisted in PES though now? It's semi as default?

Not sure about this manual thing tbh.
 
Not sure about the manual thing either but I have faith in Konami in this department.

Adam also said:

It's true, completely new ball physics totally reworked. Something the trailer fails to show very well.
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Which is great news.
 
Also, regarding 360 degree movement:

It's smoother in PES 2012, but implemented best they can to prevent foot sliding.

FIFA feels more free, but less inertia.
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....which is something of a hot topic. :))
 
New ball physics sounds good, but like said, it didn't look very new in the trailer. I think one of the shots actually had top spin though, but one shot looked very 2011, with back spin but still low with constant downward force like if it was the weight of a bowling ball.
 
I'm guessing it's just like using the manual in 2011 only in 2012 you won't need to use 2 buttons for it, which is what I was hoping for :)
 
I didn't really want to hear about that manual option. Its going to cause problems online just like it does in FIFA if Konami don't approach it in the right manner.

They should have just allowed the manual modifier to work with everything (including shooting) and leave it at that.
 
Adam did also say that manual controls are not mix and match when he played i.e. there's no assisted/manual option for passing, shooting, crossing - it's all manual or all semi assisted.
 
Lami said:
I'm guessing it's just like using the manual in 2011 only in 2012 you won't need to use 2 buttons for it, which is what I was hoping for :)
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Come to think of it, yeah that's the most logic thing to happen. So it's actually great, if people use the modifier frequently then they should just play with manual setting from now on. More convenient really. Otherwise just keep at Semi. But I wonder how does it work for shooting.
 
It's fine you get the odd moment of madness from your keeper as this does happen in reality. However some of the slip ups are ridiculous.

As for PES they will have to get more youngsters on board to rebuild their market share.

If PES2012 is a good game then word of mouth and social networking will help it's sucess.

Unfortunately though many kids just get sucked in by marketing as FIFA is the 'trendy game' while PES is the game no one wants to associate with , without even giving it a try which is a an unfortunate characteristic of many kids certainly here in England.

Hence Konami's rather chaotic presentations and lack of smartness in their presentation does have a detrimental effect. Older heads will look behind the surface gloss and be prepared to test the games thoroughly to assess their merits but youngsters will not.
 
Jamezinho said:
Adam did also say that manual controls are not mix and match when he played i.e. there's no assisted/manual option for passing, shooting, crossing - it's all manual or all semi assisted.
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You will still be able to use the manual modifiers with L2 right?

Thing is. PES's Manual is much better, more sensitive and far more precise than FIFA's so it's no disadvantage as like FIFA's is!

If anything, i think PES manual mode will show fifa's is broken in area's and needs work! I think if stats aren't affecting manual enough, people will exploit it!
 
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ALBICELESTE2010 said:
As for PES they will have to get more youngsters on board to rebuild their market share.

If PES2012 is a good game then word of mouth and social networking will help it's sucess.

Unfortunately though many kids just get sucked in by marketing as FIFA is the 'trendy game' while PES is the game no one wants to associate with , without even giving it a try which is a an unfortunate characteristic of many kids certainly here in England.

Hence Konami's rather chaotic presentations and lack of smartness in their presentation does have a detrimental effect. Older heads will look behind the surface gloss and be prepared to test the games thoroughly to assess their merits but youngsters will not.
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Couldn't agree more. So true.
 
ALBICELESTE2010 said:
Unfortunately though many kids just get sucked in by marketing as FIFA is the 'trendy game' while PES is the game no one wants to associate with , without even giving it a try which is a an unfortunate characteristic of many kids certainly here in England
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Well unfortunately when Lil Wayne is included in EA's promo video for FIFA 12 and talks about how much he plays and loves the game along with this drake guy (whoever the fuck he is). What can PES do to complete with that marketing wise.

I don't think Messi is any match for that sad excuse for a rapper.
 
I like the manual setting feature. I kept forgetting to use the LT too often. Here's to hoping it's more stat based. Was the manual modifier stat based in 2011?


Also good, keep kids and ignorant people away from PES. Everybody i know who has played PES thinks it's alright even if Fifa is their main football game of choice. I spoke yesterday about ignorance of people in relation to PES but those that was directed at those who wouldn't even play it because it looks robotic and/or because it doesn't have licenses.

kobayashi said:
Well unfortunately when Lil Wayne is included in EA's promo video for FIFA 12 and talks about how much he plays and loves the game along with this drake guy (whoever the fuck he is). What can PES do to complete with that marketing wise.

I don't think Messi is any match for that sad excuse for a rapper.
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Are you implying that Lil Wayne isn't an ardent hardcore gamer?

They had Ice-T presenting Gears of War 3 today. Blockbuster games are the new bling bling.
 
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Didn't want to see PES get fully manual controls in the way that has been mentioned, I just hope the modifier remains.
@Northzz - yeah, the manual modifier was stat based in 2011, the manual long ball is a great weapon with the better passers of the ball.

Also, hopefully we don't get a bunch of snobbish twats who say "You're crap unless you play manual" or question every goal video to see if it was on manual etc.
The FIFA manual crowd could be a bunch of dickheads at times.
 
I'm implying 1st that Even if Konami try, they are no match for FIFA with marketing.

Also that if that retard can play FIFA, who can't play FIFA. Well all know this you have Wilsheire calling it realistic because he wants to find out what his opponents strongest foot is. :CONFUSE:
 
Rob92 said:
Also, hopefully we don't get a bunch of snobbish twats who say "You're crap unless you play manual" or question every goal video to see if it was on manual etc.
The FIFA manual crowd could be a bunch of dickheads at times.
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That's a concern for me too. Very deluded some of them, they think all of FIFA's problems disappear when playing manual.
 
Just been playing BAL for the first time in the last couple of days - I really hope they drastically improve the AI... There's players running into each other all over the place, not playing obvious passes etc.

I could accept it if they tried to protect the ball and failed due to poor technique or strength, but most of the time it's like they are completely unaware of where the opponents are...
 
kobayashi said:
That's a concern for me too. Very deluded some of them, they think all of FIFA's problems disappear when playing manual.
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Yeah... How often do you hear stuff like this;

"Fully manual on slow speed against friends is very realistic"

Bollocks.
 
BAL is shit :LOL: they are all shit really. Be a Pro in FIFA, your teammates do nothing. Your a one man team!

PES BAL, there's so many issues with your teammates, the tactics being used by opponents. They are both rubbish really! So the question is what should be the benchmark for playing as just one player?
 
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