PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......
- Thread starter Jimmy G-Force
- Start date
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Rob92
Guest
Yeah, I'm enjoying it quite a lot - scored a couple of goals and won a penalty in my first five games for De Graafschap in the Eredivisie, but now we've switched to a formation that doesn't contain a SS (my position), so I'm usually just getting thrown on towards the end out of position 
.
I had it once where I was subbed on in the 70th minute, made a couple of completed passes, then the ball went out for a throw on 72 mins and I was subbed off... WTF.
But it is ahead of FIFA's BAL that's for certain - in FIFA you can tell your teammates to pass or shoot at any time, from any distance, and they'll follow your orders... In PES you feel more like an individual on a team rather than some sort of god that has to be at the centre of everything your team does.
Loads of room for improvement in terms of AI though, and as kobayashi says, with the tactics too.
.I had it once where I was subbed on in the 70th minute, made a couple of completed passes, then the ball went out for a throw on 72 mins and I was subbed off... WTF.
But it is ahead of FIFA's BAL that's for certain - in FIFA you can tell your teammates to pass or shoot at any time, from any distance, and they'll follow your orders... In PES you feel more like an individual on a team rather than some sort of god that has to be at the centre of everything your team does.
Loads of room for improvement in terms of AI though, and as kobayashi says, with the tactics too.
Yeah always a sub at first, then you build up your little bar and your manager starts preferring you over other strikers, it's a cool idea. I was at Inter and had 10% playing time in my contract but because I was playing so well I got a lot more games, although he was a bit bi polar... had moments where I would get dropped for 5-10 games for no reason whatsoever.
I moved teams b/c of this and didn't have any other issues like that lol, also the whole getting subbed off thing, it's 95% stamina and 5% if you need a goal you will get to stay on, depends on the team as well though I believe... the main thing I always do in PES BAL is get my stamina up asap.
Also, just bought PES5 for the xbox on ebay for £4, works on the 360 so will have some fun with that as well.
I moved teams b/c of this and didn't have any other issues like that lol, also the whole getting subbed off thing, it's 95% stamina and 5% if you need a goal you will get to stay on, depends on the team as well though I believe... the main thing I always do in PES BAL is get my stamina up asap.
Also, just bought PES5 for the xbox on ebay for £4, works on the 360 so will have some fun with that as well.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
This will happen. Plenty of candidates in this very forum.
Yeah i agree with you and rob it's 1000 times better than that FIFA 1 man team crap! You do feel like an individual. It's fun and challenging rising up to become a great player. facing challenges for spots in the team. Winning titles individuality and separately.
Just as in advice really, don't expect brilliant game play and for PES to play at it's best in this mode. Expect stupidity from the AI and strange moments really. That's where i say it's shit because it's not really at a level where it shows PES at it's best.
Some people moaned about BAL having stupid AI, my point is what football with BAL or BAP has ever provided great gameplay in this mode?
how many would you say?
There's two obvious ones. Can't put a number on how many others there are.
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romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
Jimmy can't talk right now, he's busy trying to cut his hat up into easily chewable pieces...
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
The obvious one begins in 'P', ends in 's' and has an 'olaki' in the middle.
AlaaEG
Crunching
- 29 September 2007
pjft
Public Service Optimism
- 23 June 2003
For all intents and purposes, what I got from the quote is that you will no longer have to use l2 to make manulal passes, if you pick that setting. It's got nothing to do with the passes not being stat-related. At least that's what I read from it.
Rob92: try playing BAL on professional, don't go for top player. In top player, the opponents will pressure your teammates a lot, and they just can't cope with it. In professional it's much more fun, and it's still a good challenge.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
For all intents and purposes, what I got from the quote is that you will no longer have to use l2 to make manulal passes, if you pick that setting. It's got nothing to do with the passes not being stat-related. At least that's what I read from it.
True. But that wasn't the point being debated. In fact I think we'd all agreed by then that full manual does not mean stat-free.
Yes i included him as one of the two,
then there's a guy who has two 'o' either end of his username.
anymore?
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Anyway boys - sorry to change topics but I posted some goal video's for your viewing pleasure 
haha
OK - back to goalkeepers.
PES - keepers parry away for a corner or off to the side diagonally generally. Very rarely have I had the ball fall to a striker for a tap in.
FIFA - my mate bases 90% of his game style on hitting shots diagonally at the keeper and getting tap ins. And it works often! We call him TIK (Tap in King or the Seagull, looking for chips on the ground.)
On long distance goals :
PES - (even shots just outside the box), 90% of the goals scored on PES are in the corner and the keeper has no chance, just like in real life.
FIFA - 90% of the goals scored from distance are over the keepers head, even when he isn't far off his line. Rarely do you see an outsretched keeper concede a goal in the corner from distance. Yet when you're inside the penalty box, and a rocket is hit, somehow the keeper can dive outsretched into the top corner!
hahaOK - back to goalkeepers.
PES - keepers parry away for a corner or off to the side diagonally generally. Very rarely have I had the ball fall to a striker for a tap in.
FIFA - my mate bases 90% of his game style on hitting shots diagonally at the keeper and getting tap ins. And it works often! We call him TIK (Tap in King or the Seagull, looking for chips on the ground.)
On long distance goals :
PES - (even shots just outside the box), 90% of the goals scored on PES are in the corner and the keeper has no chance, just like in real life.
FIFA - 90% of the goals scored from distance are over the keepers head, even when he isn't far off his line. Rarely do you see an outsretched keeper concede a goal in the corner from distance. Yet when you're inside the penalty box, and a rocket is hit, somehow the keeper can dive outsretched into the top corner!
- Thread starter
- #1,124
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
Not really bud, this isnt the Full Manual I was alluding to and you know that. This just sounds like an extension of the 'Engineered for Freedom' tagline, nothing more, nothing less. The Manual System I was referring to was the current system that Fifa adopts, which at this present time, is the only system we can cross-reference. My point was that Seabass would never opt for this system in it's current state, meaning without any statistical influence. And I firmly stand by that argument. He wont. You can bet your bottom-dollar, this 'Manual' option, whatever that may be, and we wont know until we play the game, is one where stats are very prominent. He would never ditch the statistics for any system he brings into play. This has been his hallmark since Day 1. I also mean this with regards not offering a Full Manual option against a Semi-Assisted stat based system. Fifa has Assisted and Full Manual, both completely independent of the other. This will never be the case with PES because stats will be always relevant no matter what system it offers.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
Not really bud, this isnt the Full Manual I was alluding to and you know that. This just sounds like an extension of the 'Engineered for Freedom' tagline, nothing more, nothing less. The Manual System I was referring to was the current system that Fifa adopts, which at this present time, is the only system we can cross-reference. My point was that Seabass would never opt for this system in it's current state, meaning without any statistical influence. And I firmly stand by that argument. He wont. You can bet your bottom-dollar, this 'Manual' option, whatever that may be, and we wont know until we play the game, is one where stats are very prominent. He would never ditch the statistics for any system he brings into play. This has been his hallmark since Day 1. I also mean this with regards not offering a Full Manual option against a Semi-Assisted stat based system. Fifa has Assisted and Full Manual, both completely independent of the other. This will never be the case with PES because stats will be always relevant no matter what system it offers.
What a cop out!
We'd all had long, protracted discussions about this only recently. FIFA's manual controls do not remove statistics. Full manual does not remove attribute impact. It's all there. The point is that the attributes do sod all in the first place. We'd had a big old conversation about this a week ago at most. Some people were still struggling to get their heads round it but generally I thought it had been cleared up with people.
Also we were talking about manual controls themselves, and having more than one control scheme.
Take it like a man Jim, like a Senegalese drubbing at the hands of the Emerald Isle.
- Thread starter
- #1,126
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
Not all Rom, I'll hold my hand up if thats what I meant, I always do, you cant deny me that. But it cleary wasnt. The Seabass stat philosophy is set in stone. Always will be. If he wants to expand on that, good for him. He will never lose that to offer a Full Manual system where every player is a mirror image of the next with only the gamers skill being the differential. That was my argument. You cannot say Fifa's system doesnt remove statistical attributes just because they are not there in the first place. Thats ridiculous. There are no stats to remove, it doesnt have them in the first place. So they are not and never were apparent. There is no valid comparison in that regard.
I use the Manual modifier at the moment quite alot, and it is stat relevant. A 50 yard pass from a decent midfielder or full-back will have more assistance than a pass from an out-and-out ball-winning CB. I know this system is in place, I use it, and mix it up with an R2 aftertouch to take the pace off the pass. It's a very good system with alot of potential. I'm not going to argue against that. It would be silly.
The whole 'its against his philosophy' was obviously aimed at the Full Manaul Fifa option, nothing more, nothing less. We will never see where him make a game with an option where the system doesnt use statistical variables. That was my point and judging by the quote above, thats exactly how it reads to me. If we are both singing from different song-sheets here with regards this matter, then it's simply a case of crossed-wires.
Most of the guys in this thread are also thinking the same way as me with regards the term 'Full Manual'. Hence their disdain at the thought of the Fifa system. Your clearly taking about something more diverse.
And you know where I am if you fancy your chances.
I use the Manual modifier at the moment quite alot, and it is stat relevant. A 50 yard pass from a decent midfielder or full-back will have more assistance than a pass from an out-and-out ball-winning CB. I know this system is in place, I use it, and mix it up with an R2 aftertouch to take the pace off the pass. It's a very good system with alot of potential. I'm not going to argue against that. It would be silly.
The whole 'its against his philosophy' was obviously aimed at the Full Manaul Fifa option, nothing more, nothing less. We will never see where him make a game with an option where the system doesnt use statistical variables. That was my point and judging by the quote above, thats exactly how it reads to me. If we are both singing from different song-sheets here with regards this matter, then it's simply a case of crossed-wires.
Most of the guys in this thread are also thinking the same way as me with regards the term 'Full Manual'. Hence their disdain at the thought of the Fifa system. Your clearly taking about something more diverse.
And you know where I am if you fancy your chances.
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romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
Dude. It's all there! We were talking about PES offering a manual control system where you don't have to hold the buttons down. I haven't missed any posts out in that series of quotes above. Except me saying hopefully Seabass is more progressively minded than shutting out manual control schemes as had been discussed above, which was between your 'Amen' to theCRO and your philosophy bit.
FIFA manual uses attributes. It's a complete misnomer to say full manual means stat free. A complete oversimplification/misunderstanding of how the control scheme works, or a preconception that doesn't actually apply to reality. Anyone who plays full manual on FIFA will tell you there are still stats at work, even if their impact is minimal due to how the game is coded.
So we're still yet to see a completely stat-free game of football from FIFA or PES.
Edit: I'm not saying you didn't mean stat-free manual rather than what was actually being talked about - just that it was plain from the discussion at the time that we were talking about something else and there was no evidence that you meant any different. In a court of law you'd be fed your fedora.
FIFA manual uses attributes. It's a complete misnomer to say full manual means stat free. A complete oversimplification/misunderstanding of how the control scheme works, or a preconception that doesn't actually apply to reality. Anyone who plays full manual on FIFA will tell you there are still stats at work, even if their impact is minimal due to how the game is coded.
So we're still yet to see a completely stat-free game of football from FIFA or PES.
Edit: I'm not saying you didn't mean stat-free manual rather than what was actually being talked about - just that it was plain from the discussion at the time that we were talking about something else and there was no evidence that you meant any different. In a court of law you'd be fed your fedora.
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Does anyone play PES on the Wii? I've been doing so recently and I feel like they're so underrated. I see no mention of it whatsoever. Anyway, controls feel pretty good and responsive. Ball physics and weight are very good. I've had Evra hit a gorgeous volley from a corner pass, and it had quite a badass realistic pace and dip on it. Inertia and momentum, which has been quite a hot topic in the Fifa thread recently, are gorgeous.
I understand PES 2011 on the PS3 has come a long way, but I can't help but think about a few things that are better on Wii. I'm not sure how the PS2 versions are really as I haven't touched them. I think Konami are struggling with this gen tbh.
And I'm talking about PES 2010 Wii version. I'm going to get 2011 pretty soon, for testing.
I understand PES 2011 on the PS3 has come a long way, but I can't help but think about a few things that are better on Wii. I'm not sure how the PS2 versions are really as I haven't touched them. I think Konami are struggling with this gen tbh.
And I'm talking about PES 2010 Wii version. I'm going to get 2011 pretty soon, for testing.
pjft
Public Service Optimism
- 23 June 2003
Well, I played the 2008 version and I loved it a lot. I played it with the Wiimote and Nunchuck, since it was the only control method at the time.
It was a really interesting game, though thinking back on it I find that what you win in terms of wide-play, long passes and passing precision, you lose in terms of movement accuracy and 1 on 1 situations.
I don't know how it is with the classic controller though, but I would assume it would be pure PS2 PES goodness.
I do recall testing PES2010 in the PS2 at the time, but I was somewhat disappointed because it felt too easy to score, even on Top Player. The opponents' defense was easy to overcome, and I scored my first 5 mins in (in-game time), and I thought "well, it's the same old thing".
I miss that every time a new PES would come out, from PES to PES6, there was something awkwardly different at first that had you learn the game all over. From PES6 onwards I feel that the PS2 versions have basically been the same.
My thoughts, at least
Regards,
Paulo Tavares
It was a really interesting game, though thinking back on it I find that what you win in terms of wide-play, long passes and passing precision, you lose in terms of movement accuracy and 1 on 1 situations.
I don't know how it is with the classic controller though, but I would assume it would be pure PS2 PES goodness.
I do recall testing PES2010 in the PS2 at the time, but I was somewhat disappointed because it felt too easy to score, even on Top Player. The opponents' defense was easy to overcome, and I scored my first 5 mins in (in-game time), and I thought "well, it's the same old thing".
I miss that every time a new PES would come out, from PES to PES6, there was something awkwardly different at first that had you learn the game all over. From PES6 onwards I feel that the PS2 versions have basically been the same.
My thoughts, at least
Regards,
Paulo Tavares
zeemeister
foxy engine
I am with Jimmy on the manual and stat based philosophy that Seabass has. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN while Seabass is there at least. Sure there will be more emphasis put on placing the ball where you want and how you want but the success will depend on the ability of the player.
Does this mean that PES by default is scripted? Yes and no the game makes a calculation based on your inputs and stats, ball physics and the other gazillion factors. Which is why you find balls going to the incorrect recipient no matter what you try.
Does this mean that PES by default is scripted? Yes and no the game makes a calculation based on your inputs and stats, ball physics and the other gazillion factors. Which is why you find balls going to the incorrect recipient no matter what you try.
jonneymendoza
Legend
- 1 January 2004
- Arsenal
Mate i think PES will win it this year for hardcore players. Fifa looking as if their trying to attract the americans and casual croud now
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Not recently Lami. I picked up PES2009 on the Wii shortly after it came out as I was frustrated with the progress of both PES and FIFA on next-gen consoles. I picked up the classic controller too......
.......and yes it was great! The only way to play it if you want some proper PS2 nostalgia. The Wii version of PES2009 was so, so much better than on next-gen. Much more fluid and better animated. It felt more like PES5 with slightly better graphics. It even had some content that wasn't on next-gen such as Fiorentina and Depor's stadia.
All Konami had to do at the time was take this engine and wrap it in glorious HD graphics and it would have been better than PES2009, PES2010 and maybe even PES2011 on next-gen.
At the time I got the impression the Wii and next-gen teams at Konami were completely separate and not talking to one another or sharing ideas. I guess this has changed now.
Lons
AMIGA 1200 HARDCORE FAN!
- 15 December 2007
Agreed. This year:
PES 2012 represents typical hardcore fans without superb technology.
FIFA 12 represens typical superb technology with casual fans.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
We're all with Jimmy. Full, stat free manual will never happen. In either game.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
WENB have updated their front page:
Andy
Evoweb Jester/Stadboardmaker.
Thats been my my problem with the manual system. Maybe its my age or something but i still play it the way i always have.
Take the passing for instance, i can generally put the ball more or less where i want to without using manual,and TBH thats the way i like it, i want the direction and length of button press to determine my passing and player stats, nothing more.
one thing i do like about the passing nowadays is that the old bug (even from the glory years)seems to have gone, where you could build up some nice play,then all of a sudden posession would be lost because your player would inexplicably pass to a completley different area than the one you was aiming for.
Sorry if i drifted slightly OT there, i just thought i would get my two penneth in about manual.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
By buttons there I meant the shoulder button, not the face button to determine the pass distance. Was a bit early in the morning for me.
I cheated btw. I knew about manual in PES before we had that debate.
I cheated btw. I knew about manual in PES before we had that debate.
Well, I played the 2008 version and I loved it a lot. I played it with the Wiimote and Nunchuck, since it was the only control method at the time.
It was a really interesting game, though thinking back on it I find that what you win in terms of wide-play, long passes and passing precision, you lose in terms of movement accuracy and 1 on 1 situations.
I don't know how it is with the classic controller though, but I would assume it would be pure PS2 PES goodness.
I do recall testing PES2010 in the PS2 at the time, but I was somewhat disappointed because it felt too easy to score, even on Top Player. The opponents' defense was easy to overcome, and I scored my first 5 mins in (in-game time), and I thought "well, it's the same old thing".
I miss that every time a new PES would come out, from PES to PES6, there was something awkwardly different at first that had you learn the game all over. From PES6 onwards I feel that the PS2 versions have basically been the same.
My thoughts, at least
Regards,
Paulo Tavares
I'm using the classic controller Paolo. I can never use the nunchuck etc. It feels a bit awkward.
nerf
Forming triangles
Jimmy, look out, there's smoke coming from your bicycle. Must be all that back-pedalling
- Thread starter
- #1,140
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
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