PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......
- Thread starter Jimmy G-Force
- Start date
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Yes, I've said this before but I'm wondering if the stadium editor was a last minute decision and a rush job. It certainly came out of nowhere in the run up to PES2011.
Perhaps Konami were worried about frame-rate issues with having the stands close to the pitch and didn't have time to test?
Whatever, I hope it's much more fleshed out and in depth this year. A great feature potentially.
ALBICELESTE2010
Champions League
You are right Jamezinho. It probably is due to licenses , naming rights and all that garbage associated with mammon.
I am certain the EU could step in if EA continues to use it's financial muscle to hoover up licenses.
They deserve a bit of payback for what they did back in the day to the likes of 2K games NHL series.
The more games studios are involved in creating a game the more innovation one is likely to see whereas with a monopoly or duopoly the same studio can produce the same trite ensemble every year.
Unfortunately rather than looking at the merits of the core gameplay many buyers are more concerned with the licenses issues than this.
That said something needs to be done about piracy as well though the pricing schemes companies use does not aid their cause.
I am certain the EU could step in if EA continues to use it's financial muscle to hoover up licenses.
They deserve a bit of payback for what they did back in the day to the likes of 2K games NHL series.
The more games studios are involved in creating a game the more innovation one is likely to see whereas with a monopoly or duopoly the same studio can produce the same trite ensemble every year.
Unfortunately rather than looking at the merits of the core gameplay many buyers are more concerned with the licenses issues than this.
That said something needs to be done about piracy as well though the pricing schemes companies use does not aid their cause.
Tbh i would like to see This is football back, i would like to see Football Kingdom revived and finally a 2kSports 'football' game.
I think 2K could do well by starting off by making a game based on the MLS and the league underneath that. And also adding a range of international teams.
The more competition the better. Konami when to shit with a lack on innovation and a growing fondness to casual arcade gameplay after PES 5, the lack of innovation started earlier because fifa was pathetic.
EA are very arrogant at the moment and live in a deluded fantasy land when they are surrounded by drones and journos sucking them off, they also still think PES is as bad as it was in 2008 and because of their sales don't feel the need to make significant gameplay changes.
More competition will keep Konami on their toes and maybe EA might for one in a long time pull their finger out.
I think 2K could do well by starting off by making a game based on the MLS and the league underneath that. And also adding a range of international teams.
The more competition the better. Konami when to shit with a lack on innovation and a growing fondness to casual arcade gameplay after PES 5, the lack of innovation started earlier because fifa was pathetic.
EA are very arrogant at the moment and live in a deluded fantasy land when they are surrounded by drones and journos sucking them off, they also still think PES is as bad as it was in 2008 and because of their sales don't feel the need to make significant gameplay changes.
More competition will keep Konami on their toes and maybe EA might for one in a long time pull their finger out.
jonneymendoza
Legend
- 1 January 2004
- Arsenal
I can see fifa heading liek COD. brain dead casual games with little improvement each year and selling billions in the process.
Its a shame this world cant vote with their wallet OR most people in this world are easily pleased
Its a shame this world cant vote with their wallet OR most people in this world are easily pleased
I can see fifa heading liek COD. brain dead casual games with little improvement each year and selling billions in the process.
Its a shame this world cant vote with their wallet OR most people in this world are easily pleased
I do not mind FIFA being the 'Number 2' best selling game or that it's Call of Duty's main rival in the sales war. It seems battlefield and FIFA are almost being sent out as a double team trying to take on COD. Battlefield is the only decent EA game, or maybe Dead Space if your into that stuff.
Or that casuals love it. I'm fine with that. I had a lot of fun while high the other day playing 3 vs the AI FA cup on FIFA 11.
What i hate is when people call FIFA perfect and the most realistic football when it's an abomination, it's better if the journos understand more what FIFA is about.
What we are all concerned for FIFA is the lack of real changes to actually make it a truly great game which requires skill! We also need to keep PES on it's toes! We can't let Seabass get comfortable! Remember what happened last time which lead eventually to PES 2008! I mean some people must be stupid to think PES 2008 being such an awful game came out of nowhere, it was the accumulation of many slack things!
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Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Yep, an RRP of £54.99 for an annual sports title is taking advantage of their fanbase. Shame on EA, they really are all about the money.
2K won't do a football game until 'soccer' is big news in the States. That's their core market and the numbers wouldn't add up. They would rely on sales outside the US and that would be a massive gamble.
If another developer was to enter the football game market I think they would have to focus solely on international football, as club licences seem expensive and difficult to obtain. With the FIFPro licence and a few national teams on board there could be a way in to the market for a company willing to try and break up the duopoly. It would have to be like an old-school football game - perhaps say 64 national teams and a few stadia - but if the gameplay was strong enough it would sell.
The current duopoly isn't representative of football's status as the most popular sport in the world.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
It's only a fiver more than the standard RRP. It's still bollocks but people always seem to act like it's a £15 increase.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
EA must live in a land the recession forgot.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
Absolutely. I don't disagree. It's following the CoD financial model, which in a way makes sense because the game is that massive, but it's also immensely cnutish. If it was matched by a £5 better game and better customer service then that'd be another matter, but I can't help but feel that won't be the case.
Ryuga-san
League 1
- 14 January 2009
- AS Monaco
Yes, I never understood why they didn't include this feature in the next-gen PES...
There are so much "hidden" faces in the game (Ballack, Rolfes, Farfan, Adler, Gentner etc.), it's a shame we can't use them as we could on PS2 :/
I hope Konami will bring this option back instead of including stupid stuff in edit mode.
I completely agree. Legally, Konami could do something but it's actually a very very hard argument to hold and to prove...
There's a thread on their forums about it btw. I know about their situation and it would make buisness sense, which maybe true. But the way i look at it:
If they structure it on the MLS and Mexican leagues plus the leagues underneath that for the first few editions or so. Also include competitions such as the Copa America, gold cup, Asia cup, African Cup of nations and other international challenges, this would collect them up a lot of national team licenses.
Add a few teams such as Barcelona, Milan, United etc..
Get all the razzmatazz of Fox Sports or ESPN to do the commentary and get some solid gameplay i think it could set them in good stead. NBA 2K11 commentary is just ridiculously good! Too good for words, and the atmosphere!
Only issue is what will the gameplay's selling point be since PES seems to have got it's act together and appeals to the simulation fans. FIFA is the king for casual gameplay. 2K is know for it's sim approach across it's titles. So well, i think thats the gamble really.
Yes, well i think using the idea i came up with above you could implement them both in Football Kingdom or especially This is Football/World Tour Soccer.
For This is Football.
- Secure the FIFApro licence
- Again add in all the razzmatazz from International competitions such as Copa America, Asian cup, African Cup of Nations, Gold Cup etc.. even stuff like Carrabien Cup. A big emphasis on international teams, include the Euros and world cup but they will obviously be unlicensed because of you know who
.- Remember jumpers for goal posts. Put a big emphasis on this for the game. Setup a career mode where you start as a young boy and grow up to captain your country etc.. Add a large amount of freedom and cyclical and fun antics to the gameplay here such as the big bully, a large amount of individuality etc.
- Online jumpers for goal posts and other gimmicks related to that part of the game.
- Keep the gameplay structure, obvious update it to P3 standards but put a big emphasis on individuality as it keeps the game fresh, and of course diving
Come to think of it, there's a lot of untapped potential to take on FIFA and PES! Even with the license issue!
Yes, others like Raul, Backham, Jurado and many more. I would have though however someone would had just altered the PC database to to work with PS3 option files? Is that possible?
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Without a doubt the worst thing i find about Fifa is that people have so much fun with it they won't give PES a chance when i ask them to play it. Their arguments never go further than 'well PES is rubbish and/or robotic' either. It's that kind of mentality that Fifa fans harbor that ticks me off. I can fully take that the game is inherently fun in certain ways. I can liken it to the analogy of people who enjoy Hollywood films so much that they disregard any kind of European Cinema and say it's boring or something. I'm sure Nick Cave will perhaps back me on that one given his adoration of Jacques Tati.
Also regarding your other point, i actually like ESPN's coverage and think it would work well in a game. It's very Americanised as you might well expect but it's slick. I was watching the USA - Spain match yesterday and they have Ian Darke and some stereotypical American guy. The juxtaposition between serious commentary and American commentary actually works to me and makes watching the match more entertaining, i could see that style translating very well into a game at the very least. If 2ksports were to make a game that featured MLS and scattered other big teams i think i would look into it as long as it got the 2ksports sim treatment. A mere 30-40 teams worked on the old PES' because they promoted more realistic gameplay than their counterparts. I'm sure Fifa fans would even give it a look in more than PES currently. A lot of Fifa fans seem to have given up unconditionally on PES just out of stubborness because of the shiteness of pes circa 2008-2010. With a new football game they wouldn't have those established prejudices.
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Not just that, it's when you prove them wrong, they always fall silent, disappear and just continue on. I'm sorry but the people who say it's robotic, just don't know how to dribble or use player effectively. There are the ugly robotic moments, but that's the odd bug! It's not a rigid game like PES was before.
It does really annoy me when people call PES 2011 robotic, the animations could be better but they are not shit, and the ignorance must stop.
Absolutely. i mean i fully agree with my mate and his flatmate who dosen't like PES because they unlike some others have their heads screwed on and it's just too 'serious' and realistic for them. He fully agrees that he's not bother much about the gameplay he likes the atmosphere, commentary etc.. I tired to easy my mate in and he just said. "Sorry it's just a bit to complex and hard, seems too serious and it's like you feel under pressure". Unlike FIFA where you can play when chillaxed without trying hard, just relaxing and not taking it seriously. I fully agree.
IT'S true there's is NO WAY! You could play pes 2011 without concentrating! It's not a game you put on when you friends and sexy girls come over just to chill to.
Yes, I'm unsure about what gameplay 2K would offer, it would probably be a simulation but i think the presentation would sell the game by itself
Same thing happened with FIFA 08! There where and are still are those PES 6 is king fans who hated fifa so much they wouldn't touch it because of it's reputation. it took until PES 2009 being rubbish and PES 2010 being heavily broken (i liked 2010) for them to finally move They are late in moving over to FIFA. they are still wowed by FIFA's animations and haven't caught on on just how broken the game is.
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Please, oh please, do not start petitioning about goalkeepers....not without being very clear on what your issues are.
As Rob said earlier, they are very true to life in terms of what shots they can save or parry. There might be a couple of glitches to fix with them (for example, being in full control at all times of whether to throw/kick/drop the ball) but don't ask them just to FIX keepers generically. We'll end up with superhuman keepers like FIFA, which SUCK big time! lol
I hope the physics are improved though. The way the ball "looks" when it moves on short passes or some shots just doesn't look right. But sometimes it looks rather good
Also, with the crossing, I think it's easy at the moment to attempt the some of the different areas (front post, penalty spot, lofted cross) but they need to give you a bit more precision control over the manual cross and back post cross. Too easy to miss these by a long way I feel.
As Rob said earlier, they are very true to life in terms of what shots they can save or parry. There might be a couple of glitches to fix with them (for example, being in full control at all times of whether to throw/kick/drop the ball) but don't ask them just to FIX keepers generically. We'll end up with superhuman keepers like FIFA, which SUCK big time! lol
I hope the physics are improved though. The way the ball "looks" when it moves on short passes or some shots just doesn't look right. But sometimes it looks rather good
Also, with the crossing, I think it's easy at the moment to attempt the some of the different areas (front post, penalty spot, lofted cross) but they need to give you a bit more precision control over the manual cross and back post cross. Too easy to miss these by a long way I feel.
as for keepers, this is definitively want needs to be done :
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2125484&postcount=60
Summary is this:
When the keepers charge out their goal line the really quite shit crouched animation which PES 2011 uses they can't move forwards or sideways fluidly in a prone state like you see with all keepers and which you see done so well on FIFA (shame the programming is beyond human). When they move sideways of rush forward they are a FAR to upright, (they move standing up too much). It's why they make so many silly mistakes! their center of gravity is all wrong because of their stance.
they just need more animations and fluidity in some places. Their function and reaction is fine.
:http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2125484&postcount=60
Summary is this:
When the keepers charge out their goal line the really quite shit crouched animation which PES 2011 uses they can't move forwards or sideways fluidly in a prone state like you see with all keepers and which you see done so well on FIFA (shame the programming is beyond human). When they move sideways of rush forward they are a FAR to upright, (they move standing up too much). It's why they make so many silly mistakes! their center of gravity is all wrong because of their stance.
they just need more animations and fluidity in some places. Their function and reaction is fine.
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CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Nice work. This is what I like to see. Not just generic complaints about issues and the companies go away and change their interpretation of what the complaint is.
Also, has anyone noticed how nice the final shot looks like on the recent FIFA trailer? It might be Nani for Man Utd. From memory, he hits a shot into the ground around 18 yards out and it bounces about halfway before going in. You'll know what I mean when you see the shot. Just "looks" like a real goal you'd see on TV.
I just changed my camera angle to Normal Medium the other day. Have to say, it reminds me of dynamic camera on FIFA but better. It's forcing me to play a slower game (not that I am one to hit long balls) and the graphics look great!
Am playing my master league this way and also had a couple of international friendlies (so I can enter pesfan goal of the month haha) and it just feels like you're playing the game out on the pitch. Especially when you shoot and the goals look big and wide open.
Just need to slow it down a touch and use the radar if you want to make off-screen passes or switch the play up.
Scored a belter with Khedira playing Germany V Austria. I'll put up the video later on today.
Also, has anyone noticed how nice the final shot looks like on the recent FIFA trailer? It might be Nani for Man Utd. From memory, he hits a shot into the ground around 18 yards out and it bounces about halfway before going in. You'll know what I mean when you see the shot. Just "looks" like a real goal you'd see on TV.
I just changed my camera angle to Normal Medium the other day. Have to say, it reminds me of dynamic camera on FIFA but better. It's forcing me to play a slower game (not that I am one to hit long balls) and the graphics look great!
Am playing my master league this way and also had a couple of international friendlies (so I can enter pesfan goal of the month haha) and it just feels like you're playing the game out on the pitch. Especially when you shoot and the goals look big and wide open.
Just need to slow it down a touch and use the radar if you want to make off-screen passes or switch the play up.
Scored a belter with Khedira playing Germany V Austria. I'll put up the video later on today.
_anderson
Retired Fanboy
Actually yeah, keepers problem is pretty much an animation problem. It looks freaking stupid, everyone has to agree.
jonneymendoza
Legend
- 1 January 2004
- Arsenal
2k sports would make a great soccer game imo. just make the game moddable and you do not have to worry about licences
Andy
Evoweb Jester/Stadboardmaker.
Yep absolutley agree on that one, the current animations are smooth when they are bugfixed, and its not like konami have had to radically overhaul things for 2012. Also like you say Klash about "robotic" pes is snake like at times when A you have a decent enough player with the relevant stats, and B, you dont sprint whore.
Yes that really fucks me off.
"PES IS UNREALISTIC. DRIBBLING IS ROBOTIC, DEFENDERS ARE FASTER THAN ATTACKERS".
All because the person is too lazy or ignorant to use R1+R2 or just tap R1. Or most importantly. They don't want to play football, they want to sprint whole with Messi, Robben and Ratface. Not to mention they want John O'Shea and Abdial to move with the same precision ball control like Rooney and Messi.
If you want an arcade game, say you want one! Don't bullshit me or live in denial about it!
_anderson
Retired Fanboy
Never, ever tell them that. Because if they're calling PES "unrealistic, everyone is a robot" it's because they play FIFA and they want animations, ball control and pretty much everything to be like FIFA. So you'll be saying that FIFA is arcade. And they will feel insulted with that because they're too dumb to admit it/see it.
Why do they have the need to bash PES? The word "robotic" should be banned from dictionaries everywhere. If they want FIFA, just play FIFA goddammit.
- Thread starter
- #1,074
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
Jeez guys, we know all this already. It's been done to death for years. Lets just chill and enjoy what we appreciate, rather than get wound up with what people dont.
Thing is at the end of the day these guys don't know know what the fuck they want!
If PES just dropped all the function and went all out for animations, the still wouldn't play it because they would say "ooohh PES just suxx it copy FIFA".
Even if it played like PES 6 with updated graphics they still wouldn't play it over FIFA. FIFA currently is very similar to PES 6 so why would they play a downgraded version of fifa with less over the top tricks and far less teams?
They just don't like PES anymore and just shout abuse at it! They don't actually care about the game.
You know what I reckon if you set every play to have 99 dribbling speed and accuracy set agility to 99 set weak foot accuracy to 8 for everyone and gave every player the speed merchant card it would play quite a lot like FIFA
Infact i think i'm gonna try that 
or somebody try that.Musy
League 2
After being introduced to WE9LE and then playing PES2011...all I can say is wow! The whole gameplay experience in WE9LE is so far ahead, that I doubt even PES2012 will match up to it. I can see now why Konami's glory days were back in pes5 times
Hicksville
Champions League
I agree, as a first attempt i think it has been reasonably good (especially with your adboard selector) but i think they just want to maybe test the water. But i do expect a far better version than the current one.
But who knows knowing konami 2012 could see it disappear completly into the Konami triangle, then replaced by the option to have characters from the Left4Dead series in teams!
Btw Hicksy your Avatar is very funny, it inspired me to change mine.
Konami Triangle...like it...er, actually, I don't, but you know what I mean
PS, regarding the avitar, I've never seen such an angry baby before, I just had to have it (plus the older I get, the more I'm like Victor Meldrew )
Please, oh please, do not start petitioning about goalkeepers....not without being very clear on what your issues are.
As Rob said earlier, they are very true to life in terms of what shots they can save or parry. There might be a couple of glitches to fix with them (for example, being in full control at all times of whether to throw/kick/drop the ball) but don't ask them just to FIX keepers generically. We'll end up with superhuman keepers like FIFA, which SUCK big time! lol
I hope the physics are improved though. The way the ball "looks" when it moves on short passes or some shots just doesn't look right. But sometimes it looks rather good
Also, with the crossing, I think it's easy at the moment to attempt the some of the different areas (front post, penalty spot, lofted cross) but they need to give you a bit more precision control over the manual cross and back post cross. Too easy to miss these by a long way I feel.
Unless my version of PES is a complete joke, the parrying in it is a disaster. I think it's pretty good at working out whether the goalie would get to the ball, but what happens from there is almost 100% of the time a parry. It's ridiculously rare to see a single held ball unless the shot is soft and straight.
MadbaLL
Interista per sempre!
it's not only animation problem.
they often "save" the ball in their own net making stupid and unrealistic autogoals. issue present from pes 2008, 'till 2011.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Adam has said that the keepers are his only major concern with PES 2012 in that they haven't really improved from last year in the build he tested. Konami have given their word that they will be fixed but then again we've all heard this before.
I guess we'll know better in the next few days with the E3 impressions.
Personally I don't think the keepers are that bad in PES2011. My gripes are that they parry the ball too much and are poorly animated, but they are better than in previous years.
I guess we'll know better in the next few days with the E3 impressions.
Personally I don't think the keepers are that bad in PES2011. My gripes are that they parry the ball too much and are poorly animated, but they are better than in previous years.