PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

It's going to take a gigantic effort fro Konami to get this right. Gigantic, they have put themselevs really in it!

The ONLY time i would ever think to use this is like in the ituation i had vs my brother.

I was 3-1 down. he was Man Ciy, i was Besiktas. he decided to go very defensive and just pack players behind the ball. At times there was just no option to go forward. Then it would be ok to use it but for normal attacks, no fucking way!

i also want it to be extremely hard to use and if you send a shit payer on a run he'll not always perfectly judge it.
 
Honome_WEC said:
I don´t see what´s the problem with the off the ball controls, people have a choice to use it or no, it´s simple. For me is a great addition and much better than Fifa trigger run because we can choose the player we want to go forward, even if he´s not the closest one.

As for people complaining about the AI i know that in high levels and playing 15 or 20 minutes they are much much better.
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The problem is I can't stop others using it when I play them online.

Adam and Alan are insistent that it's not a problem and that you aren't nearly as free to use it as these videos imply. The fact that the AI is clearly on the lowest difficulty is weird in itself - if your big thing is AI then shouldnt you want every vid to pimp that at every opportunity?

_Ando - no probs. Big hug, promise I won't squeeze your arse.
 
"The new player has all the attributes of the new game, in that he is a strong all-rounder, skillful, fast, and capable of making magic happen on-field."

If it's not Ibra, it's Gareth Bale for me. He should be ace at trigger runs ;)
 
Honome_WEC said:
I don´t see what´s the problem with the off the ball controls, people have a choice to use it or no, it´s simple.
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The problem for me is that I want my opposition to be as realistic as my own team (online). I don't want to be playing against Barca and having Busquets & Mascherano making continued zig zag runs into my box.

It's bad enough just now with the constant 1-2s but can you imagine that coupled with another 2 or 3 guys being set off on trigger runs. Sure it'll open up huge gaps for the counter attack but I'd be just aswell playing NBA if I wanted games played out like that.

Obviously it's all guess work just now but going by past experience, there are plenty of online spammers out there to make the game very frustrating for us who like to go online and I'm willing to bet this will be another thing for them to exploit.
 
Although what could happen is morons online will spam 1-2 and spam players forward and just make every game end up 5-0 with the spammer winning against players who can't play the game and losing heavily to players who actually have a decent understanding of football.
 
Another thing, who the fuck cares who's on the cover!?
I never could understand those types of posts and threads.
Don't turn this into another Official FIFA thread people please
 
Playing online against someone that uses this, is just like playing a 1 (or 2) vs 2 game, it's not that bad I think. I like playing 2 vs CPU for example, and I have never thought about the individuality of the players are gone because of that.

Also, if the AI isn't perfect, which it obviously isn't, then it might be nice to have this option at hand, instead of screaming at the screen at the retarded AI moves. But let's face it, the auto mode is trigger runs, but the manual mode is more interesting to me.

I still would like to have seen the "Help me out" button instead of this, but I still see some possible positive outcome from this.

Edit: Oh and was challenge mode back? If so, Yay!
 
It´s impossible to play a realistic online game anyway, no matter what options there are in the game. Using the off the ball control won´t make online better or worse, for me online is always a shit simply because 90% of the people we play against are shitheads.

For me PES is for offline 20 minutes ML games!
 
stuartyd said:
Another thing, who the fuck cares who's on the cover!?
I never could understand those types of posts and threads.
Don't turn this into another Official FIFA thread people please
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It's still called a discussion thread really.

I'd like to see a ninja on my cover. It would make my game much better than yours.
 
As someone who can't even use manual crossing, I'm pretty sure I will not be able to master this feature. It's probably usable on lower difficulty settings but once you have pressure from the opposing team, it will be enough just to get the ball to a teammate, without trying to select him with the right stick and manipulate him around the place.
 
Lami said:
It's still called a discussion thread really.

I'd like to see a ninja on my cover. It would make my game much better than yours.
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:P Yeah ok, fair enough matey but I'd like to think the discussions should be based on the game rather than the box it comes in. IMO that's what makes this site better than others out there......
 
stuartyd said:
Another thing, who the fuck cares who's on the cover!?
I never could understand those types of posts and threads.
Don't turn this into another Official FIFA thread people please
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I couldn't give a toss who's on the cover.
I was being sarcastic re. Trigger runs ;)
 
Isslander said:
As someone who can't even use manual crossing, I'm pretty sure I will not be able to master this feature. It's probably usable on lower difficulty settings but once you have pressure from the opposing team, it will be enough just to get the ball to a teammate, without trying to select him with the right stick and manipulate him around the place.
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That's key.. The fear from some regarding online is because it's still fixed to "Regular" difficulty. Should be at least Professional imo.
 
And if someone wants to use it against me, I will tackle his legs off while he is buys moving the other player into a sneaky run.
 
_anderson said:
That's key.. The fear from some regarding online is because it's still fixed to "Regular" difficulty. Should be at least Professional imo.
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People may have difficulties mastering (and possibly exploiting) the manual version but the assisted version is not that different from FIFA's trigger runs, so I don't see what's to keep people from sending every teammate near the ball on runs forward as if this is schoolyard football.

Ultimately what it will come down to is whether or not the game punishes people for trying to exploit forward runs, which is what FIFA does not do well with its poor AI and unrealistic passing and ball control systems. Hopefully Konami get the balance of this right and there will be enough risk involved in sending players forward so that it doesn't look like FIFA's frantic arcadey mess.

When it comes to individuality and stats, maybe the quality of off the ball runs may vary? At least on assisted?
 
I doubt it, he said it was just straight runs, so they might not even try to make diagonal runs and stuff that the AI does. So it might be better to just let the AI do the runs instead to get more clever runs and more variation. And then use trigger run in some situations where you want a player to take a deep run instead of wanting a short pass.

Edit: I guess they run in a straight line as you point the stick, my bad.
 
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This is clearly a "masses" request. A request made from "fifaers" or "proevospammers". No way a purist would ever request something so exploitable and random as this. This will OBVIOUSLY be exploited if bad implemented, and the first attempt at something "gamechanger" is always risky and unstable, leading to exploits/frustrations.In a AI evolved as never game, this extra player control seems like a "salvation buoy" for those who can´t understand football but surely can understand, control and master, a video game gimmick who will give them weapons to use online and spoil true football fans experiences and expectations. It happens now with 2011´s never ending pressuring, triple tapping, and kick off exploits,it surely will in 2012 with the possibility of simply abusing random runs and over packing/spamming attacking moves with no realistic tactical sense or value. I love to play 2011 online vs true "footballers", not minding the final result, but playing to win every game enjoying the challenges that arise. Now this happens 5%, if so, of the time i play. 2012 could be a haven to purists with the advanced AI and possibilities but this feature reaks of weird formations/tactics and exploits. Konami still trying to please everybody, lending itself to these "innovations". Hope to be proved wrong,... please?
 
mancan said:
No im not because ive played the game so ive seen the AI on professional and how it works and im telling you that the video is definately on a low level just to show us how it will be effective.
Obviously you can be sceptical but konami is obviously moving in the right direction and from what ive played of pes 2012 i can see konami know what they are doing
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Thats fine, I knew it would be a good level of AI until this has been thrown into the mix.

Did you test the player runs and how did the AI react? Did they stand still, track the runner, track the ball, did midfielders cover someone breaking from midfield?

If you were playing two player does the collision detection play a part if say the AI is bombing down the wing and you are tracking him, can you then intefere with the AI forward and essentially foul him off the ball?
 
Gab_ said:
I doubt it, he said it was just straight runs, so they might not even try to make diagonal runs and stuff that the AI does.
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Yup, simple straight run.. :TTTH: not even mention about how player's stats is going to have influence on this assisted OTB.

On the contrary, previous video about diagonal run etc. Jon mentioned about player's ability and stuff.

Hmm, it is quite clear at least for me, why they introduce this despite seabass having given hint before that this run trigger stuff is not his philosophy.
 
Honome_WEC said:
It´s impossible to play a realistic online game anyway, no matter what options there are in the game. Using the off the ball control won´t make online better or worse, for me online is always a shit simply because 90% of the people we play against are shitheads.

For me PES is for offline 20 minutes ML games!
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This is true. There is nothing worse than playing with random people on online games unless you're like 16 and don't care. Sports games are usually worse too because exploits are a dime a dozen and people are willing to exploit them because there's next to no reason why they would do otherwise in reality.

I know there's PEEL for PS3 users but i'm sure if people wanted to play a reasonably fun game with somebody who isn't going to be an ass then you could easily find a few people on here willing to play when the game is released. You can set the parameters before you play so the game is even.
 
DuduBR9 said:
I already posted my opinon in kitanamedia.

This MUST be avaliable in manual only. You can get some advantage in manual, but it will be hard as hell to make the runs showed on the assisted-teammates and get easily on sweet spots.

At first you won't have a clue how to control 2 players at the same time, so if the feature was only avaliable like in the manual video, many people wouldn't bother to try and get used to it. It would just an "extre" like it should be. No need to hype this feature as the AI is already good.

The assisted should not exist. Let the Ai and individuality do the work.
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THIS
And i agree with romagnoli too, but i'm not so drastic like him :))
At worst it will make worse online, but will give us the possibility to counter attack their players moving forwards and leaving gaps in defence
 
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