PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

In the previous(and current) PES the run trigger is activated when you press L1+X(pass) right? Or more precisely it's called the one-two trigger. I always used this when attacking as it would always help on the break. What it does is that player A will pass the ball to player X and player A will run forward in a particular space to receive the ball.

What I love about this is the whole individuality of it, players who are defensive minded or lack tactical awareness will not be as aggressive going forward as attacking players(stats-wise) and+ the position they take to receive the pass is also depending on their tactical awareness as well.

I always thought that they should've improved this more instead of adding this feature.
 
romagnoli said:
Funnily enough I just addressed most of these points over on WENB's forums.

In short:

We know physical and ethnical individuality is still there, but mental and tactical individuality is a huge loss. There is zero evidence that stats matter for this and zero reason to think they will.

The fix to PES2011 players not making runs when they should is to fix the AI, not give us a button.

I don't consider exploiting someone's back line of 1 player to be any more enjoyable than being the victim of exploits myself.

We don't have to use this? Great. How do I stop the other guy using it against me and still ruining my game?
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If you're saying that then there's zero evidence to think stats won't matter for this and zero reason to think that they won't. Remember, it works that way in FIFA but that doesn't mean it will work that way in PES.

I actually agree with you here, but that doesn't mean it can't be a good option to have if Konami don't mess it up.

You can't obviously, but all my hope for this working is down to how Konami pull it off, if stats have an effect it won't be a big issue... if the defensive AI is good enough it will not be a big issue, if it's very hard to use effectively then it won't be a big issue. Then again if they mess it up we're all in the same boat online and completely screwed.

I'm just saying everyone shouldn't lose their heads this quick, at least try it or wait on previews etc saying whether or not it is overpowered.

It's a guessing game atm and no real point arguing about it, as none of us know.
 
The good thing about the return of a training mode is that it serves as a good starting point for people who aren't familiar with the game. Many was the time with PES 2011 that i thought i sounded like a condescending ass when i pointed out basic things people should and should not be doing (mainly because they'd try to play it like fifa).
 
_anderson said:
So, you're no longer worried about individuality? Good enough.

I doubt it will be exploitable, but we'll have to wait and see really. Nothing else we can do at this stage.
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Tactical and mental individuality is a massive loss. FIFA has players who can run fast or slow, it may even get technical ability kind of ok one day... But so many player cards and attributes are being killed by this.
 
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Any bets for the new face on cover? On WENB quoted Murphy and he said that the new faces will be: "The new player has all the attributes of the new game, in that he is a strong all-rounder, skillful, fast, and capable of making magic happen on-field."

I bet for Xavi
 
I just watched the first video regarding these new off the ball controls. Needless to say i was scared when the first video ending saying you'd have the ability to make 'simple straight runs'. The manual video calmed my nerves. It looks like how i imagined it to.

The assisted one seems a bit of a cop-out though. I guess it's only there for the newbies.
 
fbuttem said:
Any bets for the new face on cover? On WENB quoted Murphy and he said that the new faces will be: "The new player has all the attributes of the new game, in that he is a strong all-rounder, skillful, fast, and capable of making magic happen on-field."

I bet for Xavi
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Sounds like it could be any well known international player with that hyperbolic description.
 
"The new player has all the attributes of the new game, in that he is a strong all-rounder, skillful, fast, and capable of making magic happen on-field."

well PES2012 is all about freedom of passing/movement, so it's bound to be Xavi/Iniesta

@about off the ball stuff

looks really difficult to pull off, similar to manual pass usage - you can't do it 24/7 and controlling 2 players (manual) under pressure is near impossible imo, so I like it - it's not overpowered what I was worried about
 
Even looking at the clips the AI is acting like that is just too complex for the defence to handle it, now if Konami said they have adjusted the defensive AI to at the very least not just stand there zonally and allow a free run I would be almost reassured.

Whats to say in a two player game you can literally foul (ie block off) a player with your second controlled figure, is the ref aware of this? Could become very ugly this.
 
I like how i was the first one talking about how it was too hard and about people not having enough brain power to do it right and after the videos thats what alot of people say now. xD
 
Thespeedster84 said:
That's why Konami should find a way to improve defensive system, ball physic, GK awareness, crossing system. And for sprinting whore thats why konami should look back at their stamina system implementation. why bother implement something or not implement good thing that let/give chances for people to use it as an exploit in the first place ?

IMO, If a game provide/encourage something to be realistic at the start. Then you wouldn't bother calling people cutback/sprinting whore in the future :))
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Amen
 
DarthKebab said:
Even looking at the clips the AI is acting like that is just too complex for the defence to handle it, now if Konami said they have adjusted the defensive AI to at the very least not just stand there zonally and allow a free run I would be almost reassured.

Whats to say in a two player game you can literally foul (ie block off) a player with your second controlled figure, is the ref aware of this? Could become very ugly this.
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Mate its on a low difficulty setting. Like all the demonstration are. Look the player who plays the pass isnt even being pressured.Some people :OOOH:

The defensive Ai is going to be amazing.
 
*sigh*

Anderson, if you took my post about getting in the fridge seriously, then I'm very very sorry. Please come out. It was a quip after you were being cheeky about the individuality. I assumed we were giving it a bit of banter.

Big hug? We can pat each other firmly on the back if that'll make it more manly.
 
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romagnoli said:
*sigh*

Anderson, if you took my post about getting in the fridge seriously, then I'm very very sorry. Please come out. It was a quip after you were being cheeky about the individuality. I assumed we were giving it a bit of banter.

Big hug? We can pat each other firmly on the back if that'll make it more manly.
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I didn't really lol. I know I can be annoying so didn't took it as an offense.

It's all good. :P
 
only1ronaldo said:
"The new player has all the attributes of the new game, in that he is a strong all-rounder, skillful, fast, and capable of making magic happen on-field."

well PES2012 is all about freedom of passing/movement, so it's bound to be Xavi/Iniesta

@about off the ball stuff

looks really difficult to pull off, similar to manual pass usage - you can't do it 24/7 and controlling 2 players (manual) under pressure is near impossible imo, so I like it - it's not overpowered what I was worried about
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Neither Xavi nor Iniesta are fast
 
mancan said:
Mate its on a low difficulty setting. Like all the demonstration are. Look the player who plays the pass isnt even being pressured.Some people :OOOH:

The defensive Ai is going to be amazing.
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Well you are being as guilty as me with your early presumptions.

I am saying how it could have a negtive effect and you are just towing the PR line.

They are introducing a new feature to a game that has been crap to just above average in the past four years and people are saying they will nail it no problem.

Seriously, the AI will react HOW when I make a 2nd player go on a run?
 
_anderson said:
1 & 2: The game sort of tries to restrict both of the situations by reducing stats effectiveness depending on the position they're in, but we know that if you put him there, better or worse, if you manipulate the tactics he'll still be making runs. It's not ideal since he's not fast enough and not agile enough, but the game knows what the role of an attacking midfielder is and it kinda still "work" to some extent. That's why in that leaked vid, playing Puyol as AMF worked.

It's one of the hardest aspects to nail in AI programming, since there are tons of aspects to take in, lots variables that kinda mean you can't "have it all".

3: If previews are anything to go by, they have already done that. Obviously we have to play it/see it to believe it. Until we see a match against the AI in top difficulty levels, we won't know that. And even then we won't know for sure, as it may look good at first but there may be ways around it (for those who think they've done too much progress in a short period of time in that aspect lol).

I'd take a wild guess and say that's why this feature won't be as effective as it can seem at first impression, because a) You won't have enough time on the ball, and b) The defense won't allow space most of the time.
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Glad you see it, mate. I have to admit yesterday, i said am interested to try this new feature, since it could possibly make a way to resemble scoring opportunity that may not be possible in current football game :P .

But then i read Darth's concern and thinking about my ML experience. Thinking about player's mentality and physicality as i'd love spending whole day in transfer market :P. Relating it to assisted off ball control, physicality may still take into account. But mentality, i hope A class midfielder/attacker won't just in a second turn into AAA class midfileder by using assisted button.

and yes, i do agree we have options not to use it. But its being provided in the first place that drive me into thinking in which side is this game going. As an added value to the game commercially, yes it will benefit.

Now, i'd love to know what seabass philosophy behind this confusion :P
 
Ive sussed it! if any of us suffer getting to grips with controlling 2
players at once, No problem the women could teach us.

They are always telling us how good they are at multitasking. :ROLL:
 
Oh ffs Konami.NOOOOO!

Everything was looking so promising for PES2012.
What's the point in announcing how intelligent the AI is going to be then follow it up with an announcement for a mode which negates the need for any AI intelligence.

If they were going to "steal" something from FIFA I would have much preffered it to have been the right stick knock on feature.

Gutted!
 
DarthKebab said:
Well you are being as guilty as me with your early presumptions.

I am saying how it could have a negtive effect and you are just towing the PR line.

They are introducing a new feature to a game that has been crap to just above average in the past four years and people are saying they will nail it no problem.

Seriously, the AI will react HOW when I make a 2nd player go on a run?
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No im not because ive played the game so ive seen the AI on professional and how it works and im telling you that the video is definately on a low level just to show us how it will be effective.
Obviously you can be sceptical but konami is obviously moving in the right direction and from what ive played of pes 2012 i can see konami know what they are doing
 
Lami said:
Wasn't he on the German Fifa 11 cover?
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he was, but I think these are short term deals, EA likes to swap players a lot (apart from their faces ie. Rooney)

as for Konami, it could be anyone high-profile, sounds like Gamescom annuncement will cover this
 
I don´t see what´s the problem with the off the ball controls, people have a choice to use it or no, it´s simple. For me is a great addition and much better than Fifa trigger run because we can choose the player we want to go forward, even if he´s not the closest one.

As for people complaining about the AI i know that in high levels and playing 15 or 20 minutes they are much much better.
 
I already posted my opinon in kitanamedia.

This MUST be avaliable in manual only. You can get some advantage in manual, but it will be hard as hell to make the runs showed on the assisted-teammates and get easily on sweet spots.

At first you won't have a clue how to control 2 players at the same time, so if the feature was only avaliable like in the manual video, many people wouldn't bother to try and get used to it. It would just an "extre" like it should be. No need to hype this feature as the AI is already good.

The assisted should not exist. Let the Ai and individuality do the work.
 
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