PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

danyjr said:
I'm sorry but this new system is going to screw every improvement Konami have done in the past few years to make PES a simulation. Prepare for FIFA 10-esque 'basketball' score-sheets at the end of every game. What I can tell you from the videos and having played the E3 code myself, is that defending is going to be hell in 2012. And not in a good way.

Looks like it is going to be a sad year for football gaming.
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Your crazy mate defending was good and calculated. People always marked. Maybe you just didnt get the hang of it.
This run thing wont destroy the game simply because the defending AI is very good the will follow runs whilst pressuring you when your controlling the other player. ITS GOING TO BE BLOODY HARD.
Do you really think those noobie cheats online will have to brain power to comprehend controlling two players at once?
 
Oh my... I have to say, I was ready for the worst, but I'm actually quite surprised, and excited to try this out. If this is done right, it's quite an addition to the game.

I can imagine the manual mode to be of great effect in crosses from wingers, for headers. Just imagine controlling the striker in the box, and using it to get ahead of the defender for a header - just like it's shown in the manual video.

If done right, that's fantastic.

About breaking the defense, I hardly believe it, to be honest. The defenders positioning is always relative to the opponents position, be them player-controlled or CPU controlled. I wouldn't worry that much about it.

And it's great to have Challenge Mode back as well :)

Regards,

Paulo Tavares
 
Don't know really what to say about this. I just posted a couple of days ago saying how the game has so much depth because you have to base which players you sign in ML based upon what style of player you want. If you wanted a full back who made strong forward runs, you had to actively go out and find a player to sign who would do this. Players feel individual.

This is taking the game down the FIFA route. I hate run triggers in that game. Now, thanks to this addition to the gameplay, you will literally be able to make the worst players in the game, say, rated at 40, make perfectly timed forward runs to rival the best players in the world.

What a load of shit.
 
No worries about the defensive AI not being good enough to track runs. Adam said this on WENB

It will be, yes. I've seen it work infront of me, and it was so difficult to break clear.
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Konami put something in alot of fans wanted and people moan. The video is to show how it works so the defenders wont do anything.
 
I like it. More control of the team.
This whole idea invented on this forum of "taking away individuality by controling off the ball player" is pure nonsense for me.

And nice net animations on these videos :)
 
I think people need to wait and see what is going on, before going off on one. Once we see how it really works then we can moan...or not :DD
 
The manual system will be tough to master tbh.It'll have to be used very carefully and during precise situations otherwise it requires some sort of super brain
 
marshall88 said:
No worries about the defensive AI not being good enough to track runs. Adam said this on WENB



Konami put something in alot of fans wanted and people moan. The video is to show how it works so the defenders wont do anything.
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What did the fans exactly want ? A tool to trigger/control runs ? I highly doubt it
 
I cant even begin to imagine how this is going to be abused online... Well actually I can, 10 players running into your box.
 
Effin.. there is something funny though, i wrote somewhere in a forum (forget which one) about fifa's trigger run improvement i.e if they could use right stick to select a player rather than try position himself to a team mate then press L1..

Now it happen in PES 2012.. i don't know if it will ruin my looking for better awareness player in ML..
 
Ern Dog said:
I cant even begin to imagine how this is going to be abused online... Well actually I can, 10 players running into your box.
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Exactly.

I just don't get how anyone can't be concerned with the fact that you can turn the worst attacking player into a midfield dynamo who breaks into the box perfectly.

You'll be able to make players like Makelele run into the box repeatedly despite the fact that his stats make him have no attacking flair or timing whatsoever. But you'll be able to make him do perfectly timed runs that break offside etc. Surely this will remove all sense of player individuality?

For offline, I'm hoping the stats will all be as relevant as in PES2011, and we can opt out of using this. I really don't want to have every player lose the amazing off the ball individuality they currently have. It'll make it feel like FIFA.
 
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The vids, as usual, don't do the best job on reassuring people it's not going to be OTT. The reaction is sort of normal 'cause it seems too effective. That's because it has to be in order to show it working lol. These vids are on the lowest difficulty possible me thinks, players have too much free space compared to what we have seen already, that's why it seems to effective. According to Adam it's really hard to have a chance to use it as in the video. So you guys assuming it's going to be abused, I think you should re-think that.

Although I'll be honest and say that I would go well without the "Assisted" setting.

Challenge Training mode :APPLAUD: I wonder what else :D

Messi off the cover, I think it's simply a statement that this game is different from the rest, like all the PES covers from the past games, the cover shows the intent of what the game is. Ditching Messi is a wise decision, just hope they don't pick Ronaldo hah.
 
LTFC said:
Exactly.

I just don't get how anyone can't be concerned with the fact that you can turn the worst attacking player into a midfield dynamo who breaks into the box perfectly.

You'll be able to make players like Makelele run into the box repeatedly despite the fact that his stats make him have no attacking flair or timing whatsoever. But you'll be able to make him do perfectly timed runs that break offside etc. Surely this will remove all sense of player individuality?
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Pes is known for Player individuality, n i dont think they would let their main feature go down the drain.. there must be a deep thought process that had gone before they introduced this new feature. this would be difficult to use IMO..
 
well the stats won't really matter anymore will they?
if you can select any player on the pitch to make these runs they obviously wouldn't make in real life the the simulation part of the game is being trown out of the window.
which also means that the one who have the time to master this will be able to take apart any defense with the likes of almeria, stokes etc which again in real life would not be possible.
the stats and team formations/strategy will no longer matter.
your footballing brain(to being able to spot these gaps) and ability to adept to this option will be of greater importance then the teams and players you are playing with.
 
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_anderson said:
The vids, as usual, don't do the best job on reassuring people it's not going to be OTT. The reaction is sort of normal 'cause it seems too effective. That's because it has to be in order to show it working lol. These vids are on the lowest difficulty possible me thinks, players have too much free space compared to what we have seen already, that's why it seems to effective. According to Adam it's really hard to have a chance to use it as in the video. So you guys assuming it's going to be abused, I think you should re-think that.

Although I'll be honest and say that I would go well without the "Assisted" setting.

Challenge Training mode :APPLAUD: I wonder what else :D

Messi off the cover, I think it's simply a statement that this game is different from the rest, like all the PES covers from the past games, the cover shows the intent of what the game is. Ditching Messi is a wise decision, just hope they don't pick Ronaldo hah.
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It is not about the defensive mate.. it is about sending iniesta forward will likely to be the same as putting vidic in iniesta position and sending him forward, no ?

So what's the point between buying iniesta and low level player if in ML transfer i am looking for a player that has ability to look for better position. ?
 
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Honestly what's essentially the point of this gimmick if PES has been advertising the new AI ?
I'm sure come release time, we'll realize that maybe they could have spent their time focusing on something a little bit more essential
 
I'm disappointed at this announcement - when I first heard KONAMI had abig announcement coming up I was sure it would be something like Euro 2012 being unveiled as a new mode etc. When I think how much time KONAMI would have spent developing this off the ball control I wonder what else could have been achieved in other areas of the game rather then this (which I'm sure for many People will be a 'white elephant' meaning it is rarely used). Seriously who on all the forums asked for this?? I can't remember seeing anyone in the past couple of years?
 
RAMAXWY said:
well the stats won't really matter anymore will they?
if you can select any player on the pitch to make these runs they obviously wouldn't make in real life the the simulation part of the game is being trown out of the window.
which also means that the one who have the time to master this will be able to take apart any defense with the likes of almeria stokes etc which again in real life would not be possible.
the stats and team formations/strategy will no longer matter.
you footballing brain to (being able to spot these gaps) and ability to adept to this option will be of greater importance then the team and players you are playing with.
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The problem is that you and the rest are assuming you'll be able to use it like you see it on the video. Most of the time, you won't. You know how it is, specially online where people put pressure on you like mad men, since it's that what some are concerned about, you barely get any time on the ball when controlling one of the players, let alone having to control the one with the ball and moving him around like if you were playing with it.

You'll lose the ball and lose positioning.
 
Gutted... If I wanted the Fifa route, I would be still playing Fifa. I was hoping for great AI, not user-input to override it. AI may not be as good as it should if they had to add this...

Of course, we'll have to try it, but one of the few things I absolutely like of PES is the individuality of players.

I have a great striker Ternalbao on my Racing Santander ML. He's my best striker, but he plays best as a second striker, so it roams around the are mainly. I have a "worse" striker called Overnoon, who can only play as DC and who will all the time try to run deep runs. He's slower and less gifted technically, but has a good "tactical awareness" of runs he can do. I love the difference between them and in different moments of the match I will prefer one over the other.

With the addition of triggering and even controlling the runs, why would I have the need to put Overnoon there anymore? I will put Ternalbao who is quicker and better and just make him run myself. Where's the bloody fun of it then?

Tossing away footballing and tactical abilities in exchange of pure gaming abbilities? Just like fifa, then...
 
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Early impressions:

elmo-suicide-random-7054698-460-705.jpg
 
Hope it doesnt effect the player individuality.Thats the only thing ATM thats clearly better then fifa.If they lose that then whats the point.
 
RAMAXWY said:
well the stats won't really matter anymore will they?
if you can select any player on the pitch to make these runs they obviously wouldn't make in real life the the simulation part of the game is being trown out of the window.
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When you control a player you also can do things they wouldn't make in real life. You can shoot from 30 meters with Inzaghi whole game, you can even dribble with goalkeeper. They probably wouldn't do it in real life.
Maybe let's just sit and watch AI games, just to avoid accidentally taking away players' individuality.
The runs itself don't make players great. What they can do with the ball after the run is more important.
 
_anderson said:
The problem is that you and the rest are assuming you'll be able to use it like you see it on the video. Most of the time, you won't. You know how it is, specially online where people put pressure on you like mad men, since it's that what some are concerned about, you barely get any time on the ball when controlling one of the players, let alone having to control the one with the ball and moving him around like if you were playing with it.

You'll lose the ball and lose positioning.
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i am hoping you are right cause if not, it really makes no sense.
 
Warning: Early Impressions
Let's just say PES 2012 is going to be like FIFA, without all the good animations and technology.
Konami fucked up big time.
 
but it still gives you an advantage when playing a human opponent who doesn't know how to defend even if he plays with barcelona if you master this.
maybe the AI will be able to spot your runs quickly but a human won't.
 
In the end, regarding individuality, what's the difference between this and getting attacking players pressuring in the defense, or Puyol as an attacking midfielder like we seen some joker do in the leaked vids, or changing the tactics in exploitable and unrealistic formations where you can play the way you're not supposed to with weaker teams?

Better or worse, that's something you were always able to do to some extent, manipulate the game to play it in unrealistic ways. At the end of the day, it's still a game.

Individuality is only lost if people use it "the wrong way". I still think most people won't be able to exploit it, but if they do, it won't be anything new.

Konami's intents were obviously the best (considering the rest of the announcements), the fact that not all people will be using it the way it should be used, it's a sad reality but it's nothing new really.
 
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