PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Jamezinho said:
If I had the funds for a new PC I'd be doing the very same thing. I'm getting tired of waiting for Konami to improve the aesthetics, and things like chants and crowd banners. It would also open up the option to add loads of the top stadia from around the world that Konami seem reluctant to add.
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You can build a really good gaming PC for around £300. I'm not kidding, because I have built gaming rigs for various people myself. First rule is you get the parts and build them yourself. You'll save around 30% this way just by assembling it yourself. And building it ain't rocket science.

Then, keep in mind in order to have a good gaming PC, graphics card is the most important piece in your computer. I have had a Core i7-based (Nehalem) rig for about 2.5 years. I have never used its CPU power to more than a half and that's when I was doing heavy sampling for music production. So the second rule would be not to overkill. That means don't go for Intel and/or nVidia. A decent AMD Phenom II processor with near top-end ATI graphics card will do the job for half the price and will do just fine for 3-4 years, possibly declining when next generation consoles emerge.

Also remember a PC is also an okay investment, or at least a better investment than anything electronic. It is not just a console. It does many many other things, as well as running games. And I say it is an 'okay' investment because you'll always lose money buying technology on a daily basis.
 
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kouroux said:
I'm not assuming it won't work.I'm just questioning if there was truly a need for something like that.At the moment I don't.
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That's true though, I agree, there's probably no need for it but I guess, like I said, it gives you additional options to the ones provided by the AI. If it can be mastered it will probably be more useful online and multiplayer, although harder.
 
_anderson said:
The thing is, why are you assuming it wont work, or that it's going to work the wrong way, if the oficial announcement hasnt been done yet? Why on earth would stats stop having an influence? It's not like the two players become one...
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It is a good point to discuss before tomorrows announcement. But mate, 2 different attackers have different ability to see and move to free spaces, no ? I guess most of the concern is not necessarily about player stats such as speed, acceleration. But something related to his "vision".

Taken from previous pages, have a look at this (from those playtester, right):

Jack Wilshere - RMF
Overall Rating - 84

Technique
Offense 75
Defense 65
Header Accuracy 67
Dribble Precision 85
Short Pass Accuracy 86
Short Pass Speed 84
Long Pass Accuracy 80
Long Pass Speed 78
Shot Accuracy 70
Free Kick Accuracy 74
Swerve 75
Trap 88
NonDom Leg Precision 5
NonDom Leg Usage 4
Goalkeeping 50

Speed
Responsiveness 75
Acceleration 85
Dribble Speed 85
Top Speed 80

Physical
Body Balance 75
Stamina 83
Shot Power 76
Jump 69
Injury 2

Fortitude
Offense 2
Defense 2
Tactical Awareness 60
Condition 4
Mentality 70
Teamwork 85

Skills Cards: Outside Curve



Talking about off-the ball player, lets say if "tactical awareness" is the one that differs player being good or better at reading situation while doing dummy runs, diagonal, etc.

So, if we control that 2 different attackers, it will probably cancel the function of tactical awareness at that time, no ? meanwhile of course, his speed and acceleration still take into accounts.

In the other hand, if we do not use this option, how good the attacker will look for position, theoretically, still based on his tactical awareness.
 
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kouroux said:
I'm not assuming it won't work.I'm just questioning if there was truly a need for something like that.At the moment I don't.
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I guess it comes down to whether or not you found AI player positioning was adequate in PES 2011 or not. Personally i didn't. I found it frustrating and not in a realistic way. Pes 2011 was one the most irritating football games i've played when it came to AI making runs. How many times did people complain about strikers just standing still.
 
That's a fair concern, but tbh I don't think we'll have that much time on the ball to make it as dramatic as you make it sound. It will be hard to do and hard to master. Not sure if I'm clear. I share WENB Alan's views on this one:


Alan said:
I think it will be difficult and hope it is but I do think some are missing the point.

Yes, it essentially means you can 'control' two players at once but it doesn't mean it is best used by trying to all out move a player around like you would the player whom you are dribbling with.

It's key strtength will be the full range of movement available (dropping a player back or short and not just sending them forwards) and the subtlety available such as quick moves that could wrong foot a marker. Sure, it can be used to make big huge complex off the ball movements if you like but really, that misses the point completely and would be ''thinking FIFA'' regards it's use.
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Personally i think of a scenario whereby i'm closing one player down with the left stick and also marking another player with the right stick as he makes his run. Surely it'd also help in those awful moment when players attempt floor crosses and the AI are helpless because the AI doesn't react quick enough.

I mean i can completely understand why people might not like it if they believe the AI to be of a decent standard already but personally i don't. I can't help but feel that in PES 2011 the AI failed to cut out a lot of balls or didn't mark players tightly enough. This may eradicate such issues if indeed this is the news.
 
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Northzzz said:
Personally i think of a scenario whereby i'm closing one player down with the left stick and also marking another player with the right stick as he makes his run. Surely it'd also help in those awful moment when players attempt floor crosses and the AI are helpless because the AI doesn't react quick enough
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The thing here is that the AI should be able to take care about that on their own. Adam said you absolutetly won't need it on that aspect.

But obviously, if online is still on Regular difficulty, it will be useful there, to stop Ronaldo abusers and other situations.
 
_anderson said:
The thing here is that the AI should be able to take care about that on their own. Adam said you absolutetly won't need it on that aspect.

But obviously, if online is still on Regular difficulty, it will be useful there, to stop Ronaldo abusers and other situations.
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I agree that the AI should be able to do such things. I can't help but feel that limitations mean that Konami have struggled to implement better AI. I come to that conclusion because I really see no other reason why they would choose to introduce this feature.

If that is the case then i welcome it because it's a decent enough solution for the time being (until they can program more realistic AI).
 
No why the f would I want to control players? Oh yes...silly me one to pass the cutback and one to score it all the time.

I would've loved a stamina system seeing as its sports game fgs. Priorities seabass priorities would love to see how the tricks are supposed to work now
 
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Northzzz said:
I agree that the AI should be able to do such things. I can't help but feel that limitations mean that Konami have struggled to implement better AI. I come to that conclusion because I really see no other reason why they would choose to introduce this feature.

If that is the case then i welcome it because it's a decent enough solution for the time being (until they can program more realistic AI).
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I'm honestly not worried about the AI at all, previews have been so positive about it so far, I don't think it will be a problem that you'll have to use this as "the solution".

I think they added it as an option, apparently this is something many people requested on the "future pes survey" done a while ago. You can use it if you wish, but you won't really need it.
 
Northzzz said:
Do people just hate change or something?
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No.

Controlling two players with two seperate sticks sounds like a good idea to me given the circumstances. People complain about how the AI should be doing that make a point but it's so idealistic to state that and after so many years i've come to the conclusion that it's too difficult programming AI to a level whereby players can make decent autonomous decisions for their positioning (at least for the time being).
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No - the videos we're seeing are absolutely fine. The problem is that players don't necessarily make the runs that people want them to make. Most people are dumbasses; therefore the run they want players to make are typically straight up the pitch.

It does take away individuality but to me again i can only assume that Konami realised they were struggling to introduce AI that can make intelligent runs and take up good positioning so they've adopted this.
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They have introduced AI that makes intelligent runs. We can see that and we've heard it from countless sources. This just seems like a catch all, and if the right stick genuinely does just control a second player 1:1 (which I still think sounds like a misunderstanding) then it isn't even practical. How the hell do you pass to the 2nd guy while he's on the move?

Not liking this isn't about hating change, we all want various changes. Just not shit ones, as this one initially sounds.
 
zeemeister said:
No why the f would I want to control players? Oh yes...silly me one to pass the cutback and one to score it all the time.

I would've loved a stamina system seeing as its sports game fgs. Priorities seabass priorities would love to see how the tricks are supposed to work now
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lol you nailed it, off the ball™ improved cutbacks could be a plague :COOL:

Konami has to be reasonable with tools they're giving to players
 
It really is about: a) How it is implemented and b) How you choose to use it.

If you're not happy with the options that the Ai gives you, you can't complain, you have that you can use. As long as it isn't overpowered, should make everyone happy, you either use it or you don't.
 
Haven't read the posts for a couple of pages so it might have been mentioned, but Football Kingdom has something similar. Although I don't think you can control both at the same time, but you hold down a button and start moving the player closest to you, or something like that, can't remember now.

Maybe they tried out Football Kingdom after everyone wanted their nets in the game and got inspired by this feature.
 
Fantastic post about this. The part of thinking about it like it's a coach instruction is one of the things I was trying to say:

Alan said:
Guys, this feature is not something that is always on. It's not as if there is always going to be a second player highlighted that you need to control. You need to activate it first.

It is a unique feature but much like the setup of manual passing when it was on the right stick, it is a mechanic that requires skill to utilise it effectively and can indeed prove to be a game changer. However, it is not something the game demands you use if you don't want to.

It is essentially an option for a deeper level of on-the-fly tactical play to be realised. It sounds complex and I have no doubt it will be difficult to use it and have 100% success. I think of it as a risk/reward gameplay mechanic.

Also, it won't have an impact on players individual stats as it is essentially the human player overriding the active AI. Think of it as a ''coach shouts movement instruction'' or ''player makes unorthodox positional run in order to confuse the opposition'' button. Remember, it is a risk doing something ambitious with this feature whether it be moving a player miles from his native position in regards to the play or trying something a little too complex whilst having to maintain posession with the ball carrier.
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It's basically an addition to the active AI, not an alternative. It works together with it.
 
Yup _Anderson, there is still a way to "balance" this thing. IMO, Key is overall AI. so that the possible negative issue as tactical awareness i mentioned above will look so subtle.

I don't see one can use it while thinking for 10 seconds without being caught by an opponent. The second controlled player will still be guarded by a defender, right ?

It's already explained for dead-ball situation.. and so far, i have not yet heard from any playtester said it is that easy to win the ball. Meanwhile, why is "it" not being talked before for dead-ball situation ? :JAY:
 
_anderson said:
It really is about: a) How it is implemented and b) How you choose to use it.

If you're not happy with the options that the Ai gives you, you can't complain, you have that you can use. As long as it isn't overpowered, should make everyone happy, you either use it or you don't.
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This. I don't choose to use trigger runs because i think they're a bad addition to Fifa but i'm willing to see this out and decide whether or not i find it overpowered - if it is and the AI does indeed suffice then i just won't bother to use this. Except for maybe defending. I still think it'll work wonders for defending if it's like a secondary press/mark which you can actually manually control.
 
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You guys need to understand it will be HARD to use its NOT going to make 2v2's 4v4. It's still 2 people's brains but now if they wanna use that its even harder cutting their brains in half trying to control 2 people while they are trying to look at 2 people and make smart decisions on 2 people u can use 1 person stay focused only on your person and steal the ball easily.

Sure maybe it is an advantage but also it is a dissadvantage because it is hard to control 2 people. I mean look at that rub your belly and pat your head thing some people cant even do THAT! And this is 100x harder than that!!! I'd like to see them make smart decisions controlling 2 people!
 
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I genuinely hope it is underpowered and that Konami come up with something a lot better over the coming years. I can't see how it could work in a way agreeable to me while still being worthwhile. Not with 1:1 control.
 
last year we complained players don't make any runs. now we complain because we can control players to make runs. I think it's a great addition, i hope defending is really good so you can't abuse it.
 
Surely this can't have been high in the feedback like they said? I've never heard anyone ask for the possibility to control two players at once. IMO, it DOES take away some of the individuality, saying it's coach feedback is just like saying FIFA's trigger runs is coach feedback. That said, I personally don't care even if it's broken since I only play offline.

Also it's probably meant to be used very quickly, as in just moving the player a little back in position or send him on a run, and then back with the thumb on the buttons.

I would rather have seen a "trigger run" variant as some of us talked about before, that is more of a "Help me out guys" thing, where you as a ball carrier want people to give you alternatives to pass the ball to. This way the reaction/what they do, or lack thereof, is bound to their individual stats.
 
_anderson said:
Hum? Not sure what you mean.
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lol, i mean by controlling off-the ball player during dead-ball situation having been announced officially, it has cancel the purpose of "tactical awareness" but it is not much mentioned before.

However, at the current state of throw-in system both FIFA and PES, different individuality of player has not yet to be seen in this situation.

This feature, whether it works as i thought is interesting. :))

And for those who concern with this feature for online, just ask seabass to turn it off. lol
 
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CurryWasShott said:
Sure maybe it is an advantage but also it is a dissadvantage because it is hard to control 2 people. I mean look at that rub your belly and pat your head thing some people cant even do THAT! And this is 100x harder than that!!! I'd like to see them make smart decisions controlling 2 people!
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plus if you lose the ball it's easier for the opponent to counter attack, allot of space.
 
Gab_ said:
Haven't read the posts for a couple of pages so it might have been mentioned, but Football Kingdom has something similar. Although I don't think you can control both at the same time, but you hold down a button and start moving the player closest to you, or something like that, can't remember now.

Maybe they tried out Football Kingdom after everyone wanted their nets in the game and got inspired by this feature.
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I think you're confusing it with the right stick being able to make you choose which angle you'd hit your pass,lob pass and shots.
 
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