PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

WILSHERE & LAMPARD STATS:


Jack Wilshere - RMF
Overall Rating - 84

Technique
Offense 75
Defense 65
Header Accuracy 67
Dribble Precision 85
Short Pass Accuracy 86
Short Pass Speed 84
Long Pass Accuracy 80
Long Pass Speed 78
Shot Accuracy 70
Free Kick Accuracy 74
Swerve 75
Trap 88
NonDom Leg Precision 5
NonDom Leg Usage 4
Goalkeeping 50

Speed
Responsiveness 75
Acceleration 85
Dribble Speed 85
Top Speed 80

Physical
Body Balance 75
Stamina 83
Shot Power 76
Jump 69
Injury 2

Fortitude
Offense 2
Defense 2
Tactical Awareness 60
Condition 4
Mentality 70
Teamwork 85

Skills Cards: Outside Curve


Frank Lampard - CMF
Overall Rating - 83

Technique
Offense 85
Defense 62
Header Accuracy 80
Dribble Precision 78
Short Pass Accuracy 84
Short Pass Speed 95
Long Pass Accuracy 85
Long Pass Speed 90
Shot Accuracy 87
Free Kick Accuracy 78
Swerve 75
Trap 81
NonDom Leg Precision 6
NonDom Leg Usage 6
Goalkeeping 50

Speed
Responsiveness 85
Acceleration 72
Dribble Speed 75
Top Speed 70

Physical
Body Balance 83
Stamina 82
Shot Power 92
Jump 71
Injury 2

Fortitude
Offense 3
Defense 2
Tactical Awareness 60
Condition 4
Mentality 86
Teamwork 95

Skills cards: Long Ranger*, Free Roaming*, Direct Play, Outside Curve, Flicking Skills.

What do you think??
 
klashman69 said:
Villarreal beat Napoli with some authority in the Europa League. I'd honestly say the Spanish league is superior, not by too much overall but noticeably superior!
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Napoli and Villarreal played two even matches where any side could have won. They are equal teams I'd say.

However I stay with my opinion. I remember when back in 2000-2002 almost everyone was talking that the era of Calcio is over, because of rather poor showings of Italian teams in CL, when in 2002-2003 season italians ended with 3 teams in semifinals of the very same CL.
 
andresmendez1 said:
WILSHERE & LAMPARD STATS:


Jack Wilshere - RMF
Overall Rating - 84

Technique
Offense 75
Defense 65
Header Accuracy 67
Dribble Precision 85
Short Pass Accuracy 86
Short Pass Speed 84
Long Pass Accuracy 80
Long Pass Speed 78
Shot Accuracy 70
Free Kick Accuracy 74
Swerve 75
Trap 88
NonDom Leg Precision 5
NonDom Leg Usage 4
Goalkeeping 50

Speed
Responsiveness 75
Acceleration 85
Dribble Speed 85
Top Speed 80

Physical
Body Balance 75
Stamina 83
Shot Power 76
Jump 69
Injury 2

Fortitude
Offense 2
Defense 2
Tactical Awareness 60
Condition 4
Mentality 70
Teamwork 85

Skills Cards: Outside Curve


Frank Lampard - CMF
Overall Rating - 83

Technique
Offense 85
Defense 62
Header Accuracy 80
Dribble Precision 78
Short Pass Accuracy 84
Short Pass Speed 95
Long Pass Accuracy 85
Long Pass Speed 90
Shot Accuracy 87
Free Kick Accuracy 78
Swerve 75
Trap 81
NonDom Leg Precision 6
NonDom Leg Usage 6
Goalkeeping 50

Speed
Responsiveness 85
Acceleration 72
Dribble Speed 75
Top Speed 70

Physical
Body Balance 83
Stamina 82
Shot Power 92
Jump 71
Injury 2

Fortitude
Offense 3
Defense 2
Tactical Awareness 60
Condition 4
Mentality 86
Teamwork 95

Skills cards: Long Ranger*, Free Roaming*, Direct Play, Outside Curve, Flicking Skills.

What do you think??
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Is Trap same as technique? Also, fortitude - offense, defense, tactical awareness, condition, mentality? Different wordings for 2012 then?
 
Lami said:
Is Trap same as technique? Also, fortitude - offense, defense, tactical awareness, condition, mentality? Different wordings for 2012 then?
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Please correct me if i'm wrong.. but the main function of Technique it was of the ball control doesn't it? Maybe "Trap" works just on the ball controls... just an idea..

..and "fortitude" i think it will be great to make a difference betwen the players that are 90 minutes per game concentrated on their positions and players who not.. like xavi, he's always concentrated on game movements.. maybe he has high stats in "Tactical Awareness".. are you agree??
 
Wilshere RMF???????? This is something that annoys me about pes, how hard is it to get something that basic right?
 
Wilshere should have a Passer card as default and his tactical awareness should be higher.

Whoever does these stats should be relieved of their duties.

What happened to the deal with the FM guys?
 
Lami said:
Is Trap same as technique? Also, fortitude - offense, defense, tactical awareness, condition, mentality? Different wordings for 2012 then?
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Technique, IMO represents the technique while shooting (volleys, free-kicks etc) and passing, Trap represents the close control.
 
As long as those stats mean something or translate into the players ability I am all for it. Lami is right technique used to cover the control aspect as far as I know. But I like that they have a stat for that now. Well done Konami.
 
I hope the new announcement is either the Euphoria engine, or injuries being massively tweaked. They've needed to be better for a while. I'd like to see stretchers, buggies and physios on the field. Leg breaks a possibility, with nearby players making the most of the wide-mouthed animations we've seen in screenshots already, OMG'ing it at the sheer horror.

Unlikely, I know.
 
proxi said:
I hope the new announcement is either the Euphoria engine, or injuries being massively tweaked. They've needed to be better for a while. I'd like to see stretchers, buggies and physios on the field. Leg breaks a possibility, with nearby players making the most of the wide-mouthed animations we've seen in screenshots already, OMG'ing it at the sheer horror.

Unlikely, I know.
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man this stretcher animation has been missing for quite some time now!. would love leg breaks n player reactions to that..(sadistic pleasures)..
IMO the new feature has to do something with defending. A striker has all the tricks to work with, i think they'll give defending a new dimension. Maybe u ll enjoy defending more rather than scoring goals.
 
Marlon said:
Napoli and Villarreal played two even matches where any side could have won. They are equal teams I'd say.

However I stay with my opinion. I remember when back in 2000-2002 almost everyone was talking that the era of Calcio is over, because of rather poor showings of Italian teams in CL, when in 2002-2003 season italians ended with 3 teams in semifinals of the very same CL.
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2000-2002 was very competitive at the top. Much more than it is now despite all the hype. The Italian national team was still one of the worlds best. The Italian league itself was hugely competitive with i think Lazio winning the title in 2000, i think Roma won it the year after or maybe that was 2002.

But in that period it was exactly like how the German league is now. Too competitive and very random. So it's inconsistent, look at the premierleague teams between 2007-2009. The league wasn't very competitive with the same teams qualifying every year which gave them consistency and experience they needed to dominate.

That period was a little strange, didn't Leeds get to the semi's in 2001?

Thing is since 2009 AC and especially Inter have been consistently the best two teams in Italy but they are still getting humbled. Apart from Inter winning it in 2010. Italian teams have done next to nothing since 2008.
 
Remind me the purpose of the pass speed stat other than to make the passes feel like a game of pool for the 'speedy' passing players? Combined with the frequency of the toe-poke/blind pass animation which i've unfortunately already seen in some of those gameplay videos, it's quite jarring. Pass speed as a whole needs better consideration in relation to the pass power bar ... I mean how slow can one hit a cross field ball? I'd prefer pass speed to be more within a player specific range rather than a percentage statistic. Just like R2 passing there should be a button to cushion or 'slow' a players passing range.
 
TanMak said:
Remind me the purpose of the pass speed stat other than to make the passes feel like a game of pool for the 'speedy' passing players? Combined with the frequency of the toe-poke/blind pass animation which i've unfortunately already seen in some of those gameplay videos, it's quite jarring. Pass speed as a whole needs better consideration in relation to the pass power bar ... I mean how slow can one hit a cross field ball? I'd prefer pass speed to be more within a player specific range rather than a percentage statistic. Just like R2 passing there should be a button to cushion or 'slow' a players passing range.
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Long and short passing speed, It's to do with how hard potentially a player can hit the ball. For players like Cristiano ratface, he's not a the most accurate passer or has great vision but he could power a cutback cross in better than most!

Also it helps for players who play counter attacking football. their able to get the ball moving quickly.

Agree with cushioned passes, or, well you could just use the manual modifier which tends to be slower.
 
One thing I hate about PES in regard to Croatian players is how Modric is so underrated. He should be quicker, have better balance and have passing stats in high 90ies.
 
TanMak said:
Remind me the purpose of the pass speed stat other than to make the passes feel like a game of pool for the 'speedy' passing players? Combined with the frequency of the toe-poke/blind pass animation which i've unfortunately already seen in some of those gameplay videos, it's quite jarring. Pass speed as a whole needs better consideration in relation to the pass power bar ... I mean how slow can one hit a cross field ball? I'd prefer pass speed to be more within a player specific range rather than a percentage statistic. Just like R2 passing there should be a button to cushion or 'slow' a players passing range.
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The Passing Speed is simply replicating Passing technique. The most accomplished passers in real-life can ping a pass with speed without worrying about the detrimental effect on it's accuracy. It's a huge part of football and technique and a great stat to have in my opinion. The only downside to this is the 'ping-pong' feel when playing with the likes of Barca at Co. I dont think you can get away from this though, there has to be this fast, quick accurate passing in order to define the slow, less accurate passers.

Pressing R2 after you cross the ball, or ping a high pass, whether it be manual or standard, takes alot of speed/weight off the pass and floats the ball. I use this all the time, it's a great feature at present that alot of people are not aware of.

Just my 2-cents.
 
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klashman69 said:
Long and short passing speed, It's to do with how hard potentially a player can hit the ball. For players like Cristiano ratface, he's not a the most accurate passer or has great vision but he could power a cutback cross in better than most!

Also it helps for players who play counter attacking football. their able to get the ball moving quickly.

Agree with cushioned passes, or, well you could just use the manual modifier which tends to be slower.
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At the moment it feels more like how the player will opt to pass for 80% of the time, it even feels oblivious to the passing power bar.

I find the game's passing on the whole very quick in general but I agree the manual modifier does slow passing to a realistically acceptable level. Generally the passing should be more attune to this but the manual modifier shouldn't be the final solution. What i find lacking with overall passing is a consistency to how the game determines exactly how a player will strike the ball dependent on his positioning, balance and where he aims his pass. It looks like they done quite a bit to improve general play fluidity which is pretty encouraging. However, they've got to do a lot with regards to the pace in passing accompanied with the player model/animation replicating a convincing & satisfying visual ( I suppose this can be said for other player-to-ball interactions)

Very annoying seeing a missile of a 8~10 yard pass, with a toe poke to boot or a rocket 25 yarder with the outside boot or a laser guided blind pass etc etc. These really should be a thing of the past now. Also, have the scissor kicks been culled?
 
klashman69 said:
Thing is since 2009 AC and especially Inter have been consistently the best two teams in Italy but they are still getting humbled. Apart from Inter winning it in 2010. Italian teams have done next to nothing since 2008.
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Apart from Inter winning it in 2010....that is a bit unfortunate for your reasoning isn't it?
You seriously underestimate Serie A and forget that Italian clubs spend much less money than English and Spanish. Considering this they perform miracles.
 
gerd said:
Apart from Inter winning it in 2010....that is a bit unfortunate for your reasoning isn't it?
You seriously underestimate Serie A and forget that Italian clubs spend much less money than English and Spanish. Considering this they perform miracles.
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No, Seriously i do not underestimate Serie A in anyway. I've really stood by Serie A after Calciopoli and stood by them in Europe i used to watch a lot of Serie A, at times some matches where really, really exciting and there's still good players there. i love my tactics and i appreciate Italian football, even if it's a little more gung ho compared with today.

I don't think Inter winning it in 2010 is unfortunate for my reasoning since they have been the only Italian team to come close to it since Milan won in 2007. Every other Italian team has been dumped out with authority!

But they can't kid themselves anymore. It's about time they understood their league is in some trouble quality wise. It's true every club in Italy it seems is completely broke! The Youngsters coming through aren't as special as they where 10 years ago or so. Italian do tend to peak much later but there's still a lack of real strong talent emerging from a nation like Italy.

I think one of the biggest issue is the stadiums. Most of them really are just old, poorly maintained and uninviting. San Siro is nice, Olympico in Rome isn't too bad but the rest however :| . Money is needed to invest in updating and refreshing the stadiums across the county. I really do hope Juventus sort themselves out finally after moving to a brand new stadium! That should attract some solid investment.

I don't hate Italy and it's just so sad really sad how much money rules football! I wonder if Italy are prevented from having rich foreign sugar daddys from taking over their clubs.
 
Guys please don't forget this is the PES thread eh ;) If you feel the need to continue please do so in the Serie A thread.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
The Passing Speed is simply replicating Passing technique. The most accomplished passers in real-life can ping a pass with speed without worrying about the detrimental effect on it's accuracy. It's a huge part of football and technique and a great stat to have in my opinion. The only downside to this is the 'ping-pong' feel when playing with the likes of Barca at Co. I don think you can get away from this though, there has to be this fast, quick accurate passing in order to define the slow, less accurate passers.

Pressing R2 after you cross the ball, or ping a high pass, whether it be manual or standard, takes alot of speed/weight off the pass and floats the ball. I use this all the time, it's a great feature at present that alot of people are not aware of.

Just my 2-cents.
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Yeah I'm aware of the R2 for crosses/cross field balls/lobs etc and I'm fully aware of just how fast passing in football can be. (i.e. Barcelona and the Arsenal Invincibles etc)

For me the problem is in how this stat seems to be so absolute for a large amount of the time. This leads to a ping pong game as you mentioned for the higher pass speed teams. As it stands this cannot be circumvented because of how this stat works in the game I agree with the importance of technique, it is primarily why Barcelona or Arsenal 03/04 were able to play a high speed passing game. For instance all pro players can pass a 10yards at high speed but very few can make a success of this without technique, ball control, vision and movement. The short pass speed should at least be accompanied with better consideration of the power pass bar or they should offer a button that at least encourages a more 'considered/slower/cushioned' pass. This would eliminate the ping pong effect from having a number of high speed passers in one's team. Barcelona in real life change between high and slower passing all the time but it his how well they can then execute a move at high speed in an opt moment that is one of the reasons they are so dangerous. Also they're predominant possession game is mostly of slow measured passing with a mix of a quick on-two to lose an opponent, something we in PES have no real control over.

The game should offer us the ability to change pace like this because currently we are met with inconsistencies to the speed of passes that is just very frustrating & largely too quick for speedy passing teams. At the moment, the relationship between pass speed and the pass bar is or can be very disconnected at times. (i.e. a tap of the button sends a rocket 10 yrd pass).

As for the long pass speed, I've got no real issues with this as largely it's ok I guess. However I will say that long passing would benefit introducing the kind of Beckham/Gerrard hard direct long pass which encompasses all that speed they love. (i.e. the first pass in the below video) -edit- actually this shows just how different passing speed is on 3 passes from the same player. All players should have a range but we should be able to tap into when we want certain speed on certain passes. I just want better contol on pass speed than a stat that works inconsistenly

YouTube - 3 Great (Long) Passes/Balls From Steven Gerrard

I think there's a lot more they can do with passing but for me, the passing is already too quick and could do with an inventive approach as to when you want to introduce speed or at least to limit it. Or perhaps there should be a 'torpedo' pass button, I'm not the dev here but better expression with certain players in certain pass speed ranges. Just better control.
 
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TanMak said:
At the moment it feels more like how the player will opt to pass for 80% of the time, it even feels oblivious to the passing power bar.

I find the game's passing on the whole very quick in general but I agree the manual modifier does slow passing to a realistically acceptable level. Generally the passing should be more attune to this but the manual modifier shouldn't be the final solution. What i find lacking with overall passing is a consistency to how the game determines exactly how a player will strike the ball dependent on his positioning, balance and where he aims his pass. It looks like they done quite a bit to improve general play fluidity which is pretty encouraging. However, they've got to do a lot with regards to the pace in passing accompanied with the player model/animation replicating a convincing & satisfying visual ( I suppose this can be said for other player-to-ball interactions)

Very annoying seeing a missile of a 8~10 yard pass, with a toe poke to boot or a rocket 25 yarder with the outside boot or a laser guided blind pass etc etc. These really should be a thing of the past now.
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Passing speed in a general sense does depend on the amount of minutes your playing. 10 minute games, the passing is faster, than on 20. Because there's less time and it's to encourage goals etc..

It's reasonable to request to have a R2 pass modifier in which you can assure the pass will be slower and more precise rather than having to worry about of the player will blast it 25 yards, with a toe poke :CONFUSE: .

hmm i think manual passing sounds as if it would fit into what you want from PES. Also i said before the PES 2010 passing animations like i showed in a video are needed back as they show the player putting an effort and considered body movement into the ball rather than, again,t he super toe poke.

Also, have the scissor kicks been culled?
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I'm sure they have.

TanMak said:
As for the long pass speed, I've got no real issues with this as largely it's ok I guess. However I will say that long passing would benefit introducing the kind of Beckham/Gerrard hard direct long pass which encompasses all that speed they love. (i.e. the first pass in the below video)

YouTube - 3 Great (Long) Passes/Balls From Steven Gerrard

I think there's a lot more they can do with passing but for me, the passing is already too quick and could do with an inventive approach as to when you want to introduce speed or at least to limit it. Just better control.
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I tell you. PES 2012 is crying out for that animation! You see how Gerrard shaped his body and hit those passes. PES had that in 2010, they took it out for some reason :CONFUSE: I've been campaigning to get it back! It will look awesome in PES 2012 which has good transitions compared to PES 2010 which were, well.. you know :LOL:
 
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zeemeister said:
Maybe it has to do with stamina in that if you sprint around the pitch your player runs out of steam and needs to recover ala NBA2K11 that would just be soo awesome.
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No comment on this yet, but I think this could be the big change.
Give players a full game stamina bar and a short term stamina bar. This would stop both sprint whores and pressure whores from overusing these techniques. leading to a more tactical, realistic game. Game changing but may also not be well received by some, though I think most simulation fans will agree that this would be a positive change.
Haven't played 2011 for ages but didn't they try to introduce 2 stamina bars in that, but to no real effect?
 
klashman69 said:
Passing speed in a general sense does depend on the amount of minutes your playing. 10 minute games, the passing is faster, than on 20. Because there's less time and it's to encourage goals etc..

It's reasonable to request to have a R2 pass modifier in which you can assure the pass will be slower and more precise rather than having to worry about of the player will blast it 25 yards, with a toe poke :CONFUSE: .

hmm i think manual passing sounds as if it would fit into what you want from PES. Also i said before the PES 2010 passing animations like i showed in a video are needed back as they show the player putting an effort and considered body movement into the ball rather than, again,t he super toe poke.



I'm sure they have.
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I don't want a situation where I have too much control in execution particular passes irrelevant of what player I'm using but in 2011 it is just very erratic. Sometimes there are 10 virtual in game minutes where you are just loving the passing as it just works well enough then the rest I find is just inconsistency that frustrates me & it makes the animations even worse for it.

What I do want is more control over my passing and shooting within determined skill ranges with a decent margin of error dependent of that particular player's skill/awareness/positioning/fatigue etc. I agree it is something that is probably hard to get right as it is a balancing act but it's currently really off.

Anyway ...
 
Whatever the announcement tomorrow, I'm fully prepared to be underwhelmed, and the disappointment that ensues.

I can't help feeling we are being overhyped yet again.
 
TanMak said:
I don't want a situation where I have too much control in execution particular passes irrelevant of what player I'm using but in 2011 it is just very erratic. Sometimes there are 10 virtual in game minutes where you are just loving the passing as it just works well enough then the rest I find is just inconsistency that frustrates me & it makes the animations even worse for it.

What I do want is more control over my passing and shooting within determined skill ranges with a decent margin of error dependent of that particular player's skill/awareness/positioning/fatigue etc. I agree it is something that is probably hard to get right as it is a balancing act but it's currently really off.

Anyway ...
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Yeah, that's reasonable.

Also just saying manual wont be like the 100% based on you and broken sensitivity like it is on FIFA. It'll be just like with the manual modifier in PES 2011. I just wondered if it would suit you.

The passing i think will improve this year, and should be less frustrating. Ball physics have improved a lot so that should help.
 
Can anyone recommend a video card that can play games in full HD 1928x1634 whatever and cost around 30-40 pound?

I think I'll need it for 3D programs such as indesign also.

Is this: Geforce GT 220 any good?
 
Oh and I hope the off the ball controlling of a player never happens, would prefer to be in control of the ball carrier at all times and the AI/player individuality to determine what I do next.

For me thats why I call EA lazy with their player run button, renders the player traits useless.
 
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