PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Jamezinho said:
Germany and Holland are better than Portugal on both an individual and team level. The last World Cup and the qualifying campaigns are testament to that.

Apart from C. Ronaldo and possibly Fabio Coentrao, I don't think any other Portuguese player would make it into the German and Dutch first teams, although Portugal have some good midfield options.

But that's just my opinion. :))



I kind of agree. I was never a fan of the overall player ratings and I'm not sure about this new grading system either.
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Fair enough. Although I think you're forgetting some players. But it's all very subjective so not worth talking about.

Oh, I thought Honome was talking about stats. Yes, overall stats are silly, both for players and teams. What's even the point of having both overall team ratings and a letter grading system anyway?
 
Portugal needs more than one good striker if we are being honest. The fact that Portugal naturalised and called up the Brazilian Liedson when he was 31 years old speaks volumes. Portugal have been lacking up front since the retirement of Pauleta.
 
How come Spain have A in attack and Germany B ?

I'm not used to discuss about overall stats too.
 
_anderson said:
But I agreed with you lol. And that was already proven several times, Germany tactical rigor has crushed Portugal already before. Individually though I'm not sure, they are probably somewhat equal, although Portugal lacks a good striker and right back.

And yes, we should rate a team as a team, but that system in PES 2012 is obviously just adding up every individual's stats to the cake and making a medium. If they had separate stats/ratings accordingly to how each player performs in their national teams, those ratings would be much much lower.
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That would be good!:))

The classic example in nowadays: Messi in Argentina sholdn't as danger as he is Barcelona, but he still is the best of Argentina squad by a considerable margin.
 
DuduBR9 said:
How come Spain have A in attack and Germany B ?

I'm not used to discuss about overall stats too.
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Germany should be an A too in my opinion.

Klose and Podolski are prolific at international level, and they have other strong options like Gomez and Muller.

You could argue Germany are stronger in terms of forwards than Spain.
 
Jamezinho said:
Portugal needs more than one good striker if we are being honest. The fact that Portugal naturalised and called up the Brazilian Liedson when he was 31 years old speaks volumes. Portugal have been lacking up front since the retirement of Pauleta.
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Even with Pauleta we were lacking, as he was very irregular at the national team too at some point. And the worst part is, nothing suggests we'll have a decent striker any time soon.
 
Honome_WEC said:
People care too much about stupid numbers... that whole paranoid about player ratings and team ratings it´s pure bullshit for me.
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You're right.

Overall player ratings are such bullshit anyway and don't reflect player's overall abilities as much as you would logically conclude. Konami deserve a slap for introducing them in the first place as it's fairly obvious the only purpose they serve is so that people don't have to even think about who they're putting in their team (i.e they just put the best overall players in).
 
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I'm curious to see Brazil. It's totally rebuilt team from midfield to attack. Brazil also lacks a good striker more than ever before.

I miss Romário and Ronaldo.. :((
 
_anderson said:
Even with Pauleta we were lacking, as he was very irregular at the national team too at some point. And the worst part is, nothing suggests we'll have a decent striker any time soon.
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I'm interested to see what grades England are given. We tend to get seriously over-rated in PES, but we've been absolutely shocking for years. :))
 
Jamezinho said:
Germany should be an A too in my opinion.

Klose and Podolski are prolific at international level, and they have other strong options like Gomez and Muller.

You could argue Germany are stronger in terms of forwards than Spain.
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I do think that Spain should be B in attack, they definetly don't score as much as Germany.

Their luck is to have Iniesta, Xavi and Villa playing as good as they do in their clubs (and Villa was even better in Spain in the world cup).
 
Jamezinho said:
Yes, silly me!

I was right, England are over-rated. The only area we are deserving of an A is physicality. B's and C's for the rest if you ask me.
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When stats are overrated, overalls will be overrated :P The system should take something else into account imo. And stats should (must) be completely revised, not just partially for new/recently "great" players.
 
Jamezinho said:
Yes, silly me!

I was right, England are over-rated. The only area we are deserving of an A is physicality. B's and C's for the rest if you ask me.
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In a perfect world it would be

OFF - B
DEF - B
TAC - C
SPD - B
TEC - D
PHY - A

But this is a video game world. Players like Lampard and Gerrard will probably still be 90+ on the game (hell even Terry and Ferdinand too) and it's going to give off crazy results.

Could be worse though could be Milan (the mind boggles as to how they have AAAAAA).
 
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_anderson said:
If they had separate stats/ratings accordingly to how each player performs in their national teams, those ratings would be much much lower.
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This. How much more time would it actually take to implement that. Surely it'd be worth it if they were going for the whole realism thing.
 
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Northzzz said:
This. How much more time would it actually take to implement that. Surely it'd be worth it if they were going for the whole realism thing.
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While Konami isn't bothered to have some of the stats updated, I doubt they'll ever do it. If it's actually a separate company the one responsible for stats like Jon Murphy said, then they could ask them for something like that. But they would need to actually be bothered with it. Let's see if the do revise all the individual stats for starters.
 
goalgerd said:
konami need to stop overating serie a teams,having ac milan a better team than barcelona is a bit of a joke,i wonder do they even watch the champions league and europa league,italian teams struggled in these competitions last season. Its as if konami just give high stats to these teams just because of their names. I bet juve will be an amazing team to play with again in pes 2012 with most of their team with overated stats even though they struggled in serie a last season and didnt qualify for any european competition this season. I think konami to to get people who are experts for each euro league to sit down and work out accurate stats for teams and players
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Game developers and publishers need to consider the main market they sell their game in and make sure those customers are happy. PES is very popular in Italy. Same reason why Wayne 'Fucking What' Rooney is the best player in FIFA with all the Brit kids playing that turd.
 
Also if any player from Brazilian national team has a penalty kick rating above 50 I ain't buying this game. :P
 
danyjr said:
Game developers and publishers need to consider the main market they sell their game in and make sure those customers are happy. PES is very popular in Italy. Same reason why Wayne 'Fucking What' Rooney is the best player in FIFA with all the Brit kids playing that turd.
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well the more realistic the player and team stats are,the better the game will play
 
danyjr said:
Game developers and publishers need to consider the main market they sell their game in and make sure those customers are happy. PES is very popular in Italy. Same reason why Wayne 'Fucking What' Rooney is the best player in FIFA with all the Brit kids playing that turd.
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That´s the problem, PES should not be (and it isn´t!!!) for kids!

I agree with someone that said PES should be a +21 game! :LOL:
 
Honome_WEC said:
That´s the problem, PES should not be (and it isn´t!!!) for kids!

I agree with someone that said PES should be a +21 game! :LOL:
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Plenty of 21+ idiots running around :P. You seem to forget that we were all kids (most of us anyway) playing PES from the beginning. I was 15 when PES 3 came out in 2003 and it's because I enjoyed myself so much back then that I stuck by the series until now. The PES games helped with my understanding of football and encouraged me to learn more. Why should kids of today be denied that experience?

Anyways regarding the stats, looks like we'll have to wait yet again for goalgerd/klash/matrix team to fix Konami's borked stats and team strategies.

I am very impressed by the apparent fluidity of the movement, yet it still adheres to the laws of physics (I hope the FIFA devs are taking notes).

Like others have already said the passing looks a bit wonky at the moment, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until Gamescom.
 
Overall ratings don't mean a great deal - I never really consider them when picking my players in PES 2011 anyway - it's how their specific abilities are relevant to the gameplan you will employ and how their mentality will affect the balance of the side.
Recently in my MLO I shipped out Veron for Makelele - Makelele is rated in the low 70s, Veron in the 80s I think, but Makelele's super defensive mentality made my midfield so much stronger and really protects the defence.

Also, having a bunch of world class individuals doesn't instantly result in a formidable team - look at England's 2006 World Cup side.
Aside from Owen's injury and Rooney's struggle for fitness, we had an extremely strong side of players who were mostly at the peak of their careers and in impressive form for their clubs.

What happened? We stuttered past Paraguay 1-0 thanks to an own goal, only just avoided embarrasment against Trinidad & Tobago with two very late goals in a 2-0 win, and threw away victory with a 2-2 draw with Sweden.
In the second round, we scraped past Ecuador 1-0, a game we could have easily lost, and followed that up with an improved but inadequate display against Portugal in a game we never looked like winning and eventually (inevitably) went out on penalties.

Though PES' player attributes are usually quite inaccurate, especially for the older has-beens, players hyped up by the media or players who don't get the credit they deserve.
 
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Jamezinho said:
Portugal needs more than one good striker if we are being honest. The fact that Portugal naturalised and called up the Brazilian Liedson when he was 31 years old speaks volumes. Portugal have been lacking up front since the retirement of Pauleta.
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He wasn't even that good anyway :JAY: well in major tournaments.

Nuno Gomes was the last decent Portugesee striker!

Italy and Italian in general is highly, highly overrated in PES, and there's an issue with older players still being rated too high!

I'd say the french league now even is better than the Italian!
 
The player-ball interaction still looks wrong, they did it almost perfect on the ps2 (taking in accoutn hardware limitations), i can't believe they are unable to do it now :/

I mean, there is almost no relation in the animation and the speed-direction that the ball gets in each pass, and is the same with the players dribbling, they simply run and the ball bounces back to them like if it were attached with a rubber band.

It's more polished that 2011 sure, more fluid too, but they stil seem to be using the same design phlisophies of the ps2 era, and im starting to think they aren't gonna change that.

Let's see if the AI improvements makes up for the lack of the overal innovation in the fundamentals of the game.
 
cesarpo said:
The player-ball interaction still looks wrong, they did it almost perfect on the ps2 (taking in accoutn hardware limitations), i can't believe they are unable to do it now :/

I mean, there is almost no relation in the animation and the speed-direction that the ball gets in each pass, and is the same with the players dribbling, they simply run and the ball bounces back to them like if it were attached with a rubber band.

It's more polished that 2011 sure, more fluid too, but they stil seem to be using the same design phlisophies of the ps2 era, and im starting to think they aren't gonna change that.

Let's see if the AI improvements makes up for the lack of the overal innovation in the fundamentals of the game.
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IMO, regarding the one that gets bold, they seem much better compared to 2011.
 
cesarpo said:
The player-ball interaction still looks wrong, they did it almost perfect on the ps2 (taking in accoutn hardware limitations), i can't believe they are unable to do it now :/

I mean, there is almost no relation in the animation and the speed-direction that the ball gets in each pass, and is the same with the players dribbling, they simply run and the ball bounces back to them like if it were attached with a rubber band.

It's more polished that 2011 sure, more fluid too, but they stil seem to be using the same design phlisophies of the ps2 era, and im starting to think they aren't gonna change that.

Let's see if the AI improvements makes up for the lack of the overal innovation in the fundamentals of the game.
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http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1122508#post1122508

:CONFUSE:
 
Haha that thread is scary pes has come on alot since those horror shows of pes 08 and 09. looking at old threads for these is quite funny
 
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