PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Jimmy G-Force said:
There is so much less to pick at with PES though, so that will never happen from the Hardcore football fans. Maybe if EA didnt try and sell something it isnt, and concentrate and selling what they have, which is a fantastic video game, then there wouldnt be as much to criticise. Bottom-line.
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I partly agree, but one could argue that you are seriously biased.
I remember somebody complaining about the away form in ML. You countered by (helpfully as ever) suggesting that this person had to search another physical trainer (or whatever it is called in the game). But i had exactly the same playing a league, where there are no physical trainers.
Don't take this as criticism because you are one of the nicest guys around. I consider myself a PES fan too, but it's good to criticize the game..it can only get better if people try to be balanced. IMHO your opinion is not balanced...

I too agree with the fact that it seems that (generally) the diehard football fans prefer PES and the diehard gamers prefer FIFA...this intrigues me.
 
Autogolazo said:
To be fair Fifa gets picked apart because of all the ultra biased previews, reviews, 10/10 scores, ridiculous taglines such as 'footballing perfection' and whatnot. The game is very overrated and has big problems yet you'd hardly think so reading into these things.
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That would be a marketing budget and that quote in particluar was from OPM who discovered EA had a large budget.

Very hard to get any sort of fair review from a site or press who have half a page taken up advertising that game, I remember last year when I went for my playtest at Konami I was told the game receieved bad press from IGN, who played 2 matches at their office and left and wrote up a 2 page preview on their experience with the game, I think Steve even mentioned this on WENB at the time.

You will have read my preview after four hours with the game was glowing, only after a couple of months I had enough of it and switched to the wii version which I have been loving for 7 months but I stand by my positivity and subsequent negativity because that was how I saw things at the time.
 
I love PES Gerd, but I'd never hide flaws. If anything, I'm as much aware of the flaws than anyone, as I know the game inside-out and back-to-front. There is nothing in the game I couldnt advise you of. It doesnt mean I'm going to spend all my time moaning about the negatives, there is nothing I can do about them, so I concentrate on what the game captures very well from a footballing perspective. The PES glass is always half-full. I remember when PES 2010 launched and the first thing that hit me was the First Touch. Not once in 8 years had anybody on this forum (or the WNB lot)even touched on one of the most important and relevant techniques in football. Konami nailed this, yet all we got from alot of people, is the game is highly unresponsive. I offered an opinion that fell in-line with what Konami were trying to achieve.

The likes of Suff, Adam and Co. are in this for the kudos and Twitter hits, nothing more, nothing less. I dont believe they have a great understanding of football, I really dont. Nothing I have read has ever led me to believe this. Adam has suprised me a couple of times with his insight, but does he nail footballing technique with what he writes all of the time ? No he doesnt. In my humble opinion.
 
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Autogolazo said:
To be fair Fifa gets picked apart because of all the ultra biased previews, reviews, 10/10 scores, ridiculous taglines such as 'footballing perfection' and whatnot. The game is very overrated and has big problems yet you'd hardly think so reading into these things.
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I'm not talking about the media reviews.. let's face it the media are useless, I'm talking about fans who preview/review the game.

PES is a much smaller game in terms of number of teams, modes etc but what it has it has tons of quality in. That said there are still far too many parts of it I'd criticise and before it comes out all I hear are positives... that's one of the main things people on the FIFA forums complained about, not enough criticism.

I can see why Xaor is appreciated by the community and that's because he's very critical of the game, essentially telling people what they want to hear (that FIFA still has issues and nothings being done about it). Honestly some of the FIFA hardcore of sado masacists, they know there have been parts of the game that don't work well and they almost want to hear it's not been fixed before they'll believe anything else the person writing has actually written.

To me it seems like PES needs a Xaor from the FIFA side, someone who will not pull the punches and will find the faults with PES because if PES is the perfect football game then 2012 may well be true as the world will be coming to an end.

I'm not saying "PES is going to be plagued with bugs and issues" but I am saying there is very little criticism like there was with PES 2011 pre-release and come the end of PES 2011's cycle it's apparent the game had many areas that could be improved, just like 2012 will.
 
romagnoli said:
How do you cope with it? Cos tapping R1 repeatedly doesn't work, neither do R1&R2 diagonal turns. Speed merchants can beat it, but otherwise...
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I Only tend to run when I'm in a bit of space. I have no problems breaking away as you know with speed merchants, as with other fast players without speed merchant. I just try not to run when i have a defender on me. Only really in space :)

DarthKebab said:
That would be a marketing budget and that quote in particluar was from OPM who discovered EA had a large budget.

Very hard to get any sort of fair review from a site or press who have half a page taken up advertising that game, I remember last year when I went for my playtest at Konami I was told the game receieved bad press from IGN, who played 2 matches at their office and left and wrote up a 2 page preview on their experience with the game, I think Steve even mentioned this on WENB at the time.

You will have read my preview after four hours with the game was glowing, only after a couple of months I had enough of it and switched to the wii version which I have been loving for 7 months but I stand by my positivity and subsequent negativity because that was how I saw things at the time.
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Wasn't it the catch up bug and how things like shooting and tackling changed from the preview code to the full game which brought the worst out of it?

BigZombieMonkey said:
I'm not talking about the media reviews.. let's face it the media are useless, I'm talking about fans who preview/review the game.

PES is a much smaller game in terms of number of teams, modes etc but what it has it has tons of quality in. That said there are still far too many parts of it I'd criticise and before it comes out all I hear are positives... that's one of the main things people on the FIFA forums complained about, not enough criticism.

I can see why Xaor is appreciated by the community and that's because he's very critical of the game, essentially telling people what they want to hear (that FIFA still has issues and nothings being done about it). Honestly some of the FIFA hardcore of sado masacists, they know there have been parts of the game that don't work well and they almost want to hear it's not been fixed before they'll believe anything else the person writing has actually written.

To me it seems like PES needs a Xaor from the FIFA side, someone who will not pull the punches and will find the faults with PES because if PES is the perfect football game then 2012 may well be true as the world will be coming to an end.

I'm not saying "PES is going to be plagued with bugs and issues" but I am saying there is very little criticism like there was with PES 2011 pre-release and come the end of PES 2011's cycle it's apparent the game had many areas that could be improved, just like 2012 will.
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Don't worry about that. We have many people here to give no nonsense hard critique of the game. There's a few such as sincover, LTFC and TanMak who are very no nonsense with their review approach I can see myself doing this, if i don't have to be sidetracked arguing about things which aren't actually flaws at all.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
Totally agree 100%.

I just hope they didnt change what they had due to the whingers that couldnt appreciate how this actually worked.

There are also instances where your players will run into space, then check, and retreat. Alot of this is down to the Management Edit preset tactics. By default alot of teams will sit back if they are in the lead during the final 30 mins of the match. This results in the moans of 'My players aren't making forward runs now .....blah, blah blah." Dig deeper people, and you will see the reason why, the team is set-up that way.

In saying all that, the diagonal runs and dummy runs look great, I just hope they are stat relevant as well, with the clever, creative runs more common to those players that have that trait in real-life.
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Couldn't agree more - my crappy ML default players literally don't make any forward runs, it's incredibly frustrating, but that's because they are crap players. PES recognises that there is a huge difference in a top quality players' ability to find space up the field. If you come away from the ML default players and try an international match, for example, the difference in attacking options is night and day. This is what makes ML so great, finding better talent who can make forward runs, take up positions, find extra space, because that's how most teams improve in real life. And not only that, but finding players to sign takes on a new dimension because every player has their own style, as the full backs dicussion proves. If you want an overlapping full back, you simply do your research and find one who's stats or traits/player cards indicate this. Compare this to FIFA, where every player feels essentially the same, and it adds amazing depth to the game.

I too hope it hasn't changed in PES2012.
 
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romagnoli said:
How do you cope with it? Cos tapping R1 repeatedly doesn't work, neither do R1&R2 diagonal turns. Speed merchants can beat it, but otherwise...
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This. The aspects were simply very flawed in PES 2011, sometimes they worked, sometimes they didn't work at all... Most of the time it was simply annoying.
 
LTFC said:
Couldn't agree more - my crappy ML default players literally don't make any forward runs, it's incredibly frustrating, but that's because they are crap players. PES recognises that there is a huge difference in a top quality players' ability to find space up the field. If you come away from the ML default players and try an international match, for example, the difference in attacking options is night and day. This is what makes ML so great, finding better talent who can make forward runs, take up positions, find extra space, because that's how most teams improve in real life. And not only that, but finding players to sign takes on a new dimension because every player has their own style, as the full backs dicussion proves. If you want an overlapping full back, you simply do your research and find one who's stats or traits/player cards indicate this. Compare this to FIFA, where every player feels essentially the same, and it adds amazing depth to the game.

I too hope it hasn't changed in PES2012.
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it's the 'attack' attribute. Also the aggression attribute. The higher the value, the better understanding and runs the make going forwards. The higher the aggression the more likely they are to join the attack.
 
Gameplay aside,

One of PES 2011 concern is the animation not solid. It is felt very unfinished. Tbh, i am quite surprised in PESfan, it is not in the top five of priority for 2012. iirc.

Why is animation is as important as gameplay for example :
Dribbling in pes 2011. IMO the animation concept to resemble a footballer is there, but the fluidity of dribbling animation is not solid/well polished. No wonder there are people there complains why my player feels akward when dribbling ?

Some people answers oh you have to look at the stats, learn the player dribbling skill, and staff. Of course, to certain degree i agree, but obviously not many want to mention loudly that the animation if way below todays standard in terms of fluidity and solid feeling. Even "go play FIFA bla.." if you want animation and so on.. this is quite worrying attitude i guess.

Another small example is when people ask for square nets, yes nets. Okay people that try to give feedback mostly on gameplay side always says.. oh cmon net guy.. come off it..

It is a simple thing that wow'ed me. This net guy wants something that simulate most of today's goal net however this gameplay people seems to look down on his idea. Shame. Why dont they just agree, and support as this was not that hard part to make. right ? and who is going to benefit that ?

I remembered in around 2002, i still look into fifa's improvement while playing world soccer WE 2002. All the talks like : it is all about gameplay first, gameplay first. This attitude still remains until now to certain extent.At least, from community POV, look at what we have done to PES animation now.

Because to my mind, when gameplay improves 100% then the animation should get 100% improvement too. Both should balance each other.

IMO, when people want to simulate a football, wouldn't it be better if the fundamental of footbal gameplay as well as footballers movement is simulated properly ?
 
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True, but the animation side of it is probably the hardest aspect to achieve whilst ensuring it adheres to the fundamental technical variables on show. The plethora of twists and turns of the body combined with the varying first-touch requirements means the animation set for each relevant scenario is extremely vast. That's why, for the most part, I'm just happy to have the technical theories in place, even if the animations struggle to match them. The theories of technique are spot on in PES, it's the exection of the visuals that can let it down. I can forgive the animations though, because the theories are so incredibly sound.

It's not one animation fits all like Fifa, that's why it's so much harder to achieve, and that's before we start talking about the gulf in available technologies between the two developers.

Edit - On a different note, I like to read the Fifa thread because I like to hear EA's ideas. They, more often than not, dont execute their idea's as well as they should, but they still come up with some decent stuff. It then got me thinking about this Flair Passing, and the fact, to an extent, it is already apparent in PES 2011. It's very subtle in PES 2011, as it should be, and stat-relevant. But it is there. I've seen some lovely first-time heel flicked volley passes, and also the drag-back heel pass. Both of these are prevelant when passing with players with a high Technique stat. I'd like Konami to produce more animations for this type of pass, but also keep it automatic like it is at present. I love the way these happen during random moments, it's classic PES, those moments where it happens and you have to replay the move to see exactly what just transpired as your mouth is still picking itself up off the floor. Class.
 
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Adam Bhatti
But first, new Gameplay announcement next week. It's big, but normal compared to news coming at Gamescom lol #PES2012
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Adam Bhatti
Guys, #PES2012 is gonna crush at Gamescom. Some announcements will blow you away. No hinting from me, but worth the wait!
47 minutos atrás de Twitter for iPhone
 
_anderson said:
Adam Bhatti
But first, new Gameplay announcement next week. It's big, but normal compared to news coming at Gamescom lol #PES2012
44 minutos atrás de Twitter for iPhone

Adam Bhatti
Guys, #PES2012 is gonna crush at Gamescom. Some announcements will blow you away. No hinting from me, but worth the wait!
47 minutos atrás de Twitter for iPhone
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:CONF:Announcements about Game Play or something different?
 
i don't want to be rude and post this on wenb forum, but CRUSH??
it's way too overhyped :SHOCK:
 
He was pulling our chain, there is more chance of me stealing the Pope's Hat than PES being available Online, multi-platform.
 
The big announcement could be licence related. These things don't get tied down until late in the development so could fit well a Gamescom announcement.

Maybe another acquisition like the Copa Libertadores last year, or something to do with the UEFA relationship?
 
Jamezinho said:
The big announcement could be licence related. These things don't get tied down until late in the development so could fit well a Gamescom announcement.

Maybe another acquisition like the Copa Libertadores last year, or something to do with the UEFA relationship?
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i don't think a licence can crush anything :P
 
Jamezinho said:
Yeah but what does 'crush' mean when Adam says it?
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even if he overhypes everything pes related i think it's something more than licence announcements

i think it's more likely to be a complete revamp of online side in pes 2012?
this would be really huge since online, for me, is slightly broken and laggy
 
Means he's impressed from what he has heard/seen/read. It's not a surprise that something surprising could be getting announced though is it? Konami need to grab the opportunity. My guess it's more than just one thing. We need to wait for some hints :P
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
The likes of Suff, Adam and Co. are in this for the kudos and Twitter hits, nothing more, nothing less. I dont believe they have a great understanding of football, I really dont. Nothing I have read has ever led me to believe this. Adam has suprised me a couple of times with his insight, but does he nail footballing technique with what he writes all of the time ? No he doesnt. In my humble opinion.
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I fully agree with you Jimmy, I'd love it if the podcast was made by guys who have actually played the game at a decent level and are true lovers of the sport and of PES. I listened to all the podcasts and while they provide great insight at times,crucial information often goes unnoticed and thus not commented on.
 
Lami said:
:LOL:


Hopefully more than hour. I'll try my best and explain I'll need to test as much as I can to answer all these questions etc.
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please take a tape recorder along with you and record every feeling and thought that pups up while your playing the game.
it will make it easier to remember everything while you answer the questions and wright the review.

just a thought,sounds desperate huh?:EMB:

i just want the best feedback possible:ANX:
 
Looks like its going to be a great game. Although I'm interested to see if they added new/more strategies & tactical options and improved the stamina system these two are very important in creating a football simulation.
 
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