PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Looks good but the ball seems strange and not in sync with the actual point when contact is made with a boot.

Still it does look like the same build they used for the first video, even the same scenes just in wide cam.

Otherwise I am quite happy with that, least its looking polished now apart from my perceived issue with the ball.

To be honest too it does look similar to this years wii version in the way they are moving and tracking players.
 
Ern Dog said:
Looks worryingly easy to get your full back free in an advanced position. Cut backs could be a massive problem, especially if there are going to be loads of players running into the box.
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and countering it with all those gaps in defence after overlaps will be delicious :COOL:
 
Wendetta said:
videos made one thing clear: pes 2011 has a very poor, very linear, very 1 dimensional AI.

which is why i stopped playing the game a long time ago, even if it had its moments.

annoying voice btw. these videos make no sense right now, right now people want something fresh and excting not this kinda of explanations.

market failure if u ask me, still i am looking forward to the game. but ps2 pes all had better AI than this.
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Absolute load of complete shit, sorry.

PES 2011 had it's bad moments and plenty of AI hiccups but it's still easily the best AI you can get on a football game by far.

i tried to implement the same tactical changes i made on PES 2011 in the best PS2 PES game which was PES 5/WE9 and the game doesn't come close. Players make very, very strange decisions compared to PES 2011 even on that game. Not to mention how rigid those games where going back to the PS2 titles. I mean the defence AI on WE9 and PES 5 is just the computer either camping almost on it's 6 yard line or playing a ridiculous high line which they are usually caught out. I'm not even going to start with the others and that AI was pretty good.

Take the first video on overlapping runs. All you needed to do is manual pass a few feet ahead of the full back in PES 2011 and he ran onto it. PES 2012 just makes it easier and that all your players look to support you in any situation.

The Defence positioning video is actually a minor change at best. PES 2011 have very, very good. Formation positioning when defending. They just basically said that defences wouldn't be prone to a big or anything.

PES 2011 ha great AI despite it's many hiccups and issues. PES 2012 will just blow people away.
 
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yes i find the video boring and the gameplay pretty pathetic. in 2012 players can make off the ball moves and diagonal runs!!!! urrah!!! fantastic!!! amazing!!! what's next? they will be able to jump??

old iss had these things.

And are u capable of respecting people's opinions? i don't think so. u people have to be aggressive everytime you disagree with an opinion. grow up ffs.
 
_anderson said:
In all honesty we know what's the deal with feature showcasing videos, they weren't playing in the top levels for sure. It's easy to detect that 'cause there's barely no pressure on the guy with the ball.
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Yeah that could very well be the case. I'd just love for them to come out and say what level of difficulty it's set on for demonstrations.
 
Looking at the videos, it's hard to tell about the animations but they look fluid enough to me. I like one of the goals where the passer kind of scoops the pass out from under his feet. Nice.

Ball physics seem much better, again it's hard to tell unless it's zoomed in more but the ball seems to travel less like it's on a piece of string and actually bobbles etc. Passes don't look like they have heat seeking guidance any more.

And I LOVE the off the ball improvements for set pieces. This was something that drastically needed changing.

As for people worrying about how easy it is to open space, get overlaps etc, they are demonstrated in this video precisely to show that they happen. They won't be this easy in the real game. Remember it's primarily just a demo video showing off what can be done.
 
Autogolazo said:
Yeah that could very well be the case. I'd just love for them to come out and say what level of difficulty it's set on for demonstrations.
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Good idea, they could have a disclaimer on the screen during gameplay scenes saying in which difficulty everything being shown is.

In all honesty one of the wisest steps Konami could take if the code of the PesRankings builld has shooting and other niggles fixed, was to post up a 15 minutes player vs cpu or cpu vs cpu, uncut, raw gameplay video. I think it's a realistic request if next build fixed those problems.
 
Wendetta said:
yes i find the video boring and the gameplay pretty pathetic. in 2012 players can make off the ball moves and diagonal runs!!!! urrah!!! fantastic!!! amazing!!! what's next? they will be able to jump??

old iss had these things.

And are u capable of respecting people's opinions? i don't think so. u people have to be aggressive everytime you disagree with an opinion. grow up ffs.
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Ironic you say that because especially me, advised you plenty of times to just change a few things if you where finding PES 2011 easy but, no, you where stubborn and went about like you knew best! I respect everyone with a reasonable opinion. But you just want to be miserable for some reason and not take anyone advice.

You will be surprised just how many annoying AI aspects the old PES games had. It was fine back then because it was rigid and on rails and we didn't expect anything brilliant. Or freedom like we see now. That's one thing FIFA has to be thanked for since they where the first to offer a huge amount of freedom in a football game!

As someone who studies the tactical side of football games there is no way PES 5 the best PS2 game and the greatest football still imo has better AI than PES 2011! Let alone ISS on the PS1
 
Thespeedster84 said:
Relax Klash... wait hmm where's Koba ?
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Found my password :) I might just interchange with accounts. Who cares anyway if it's klash or kobayashi.

Btw I'm relaxed, I'm not even being rude or throwing any personal insults at all. Just saying i believe Wendetta views are ill informed because of his stubbornness to budge from playing 10 minute games and not trying to explore everything about PES 2011

anyway moving on!!!

I've seen only 2 bad animations in the whole entire video, one was the cross from Silva i think, the run didn't carry enough momentum into the cross, which is something i think Northzzz was rightfully complaining about.

Second was on the goal like, one of the Portuguese players, i know he was watching the ball all the way but he controlled it almost a bit too casually

I'll analyze it more later, but i mean some of hem like the Coentrao cross and the Lampard shot look gorgeous, really! There's doesn't seem to be any huge animation issues which strike at me.
 
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not really understanding the hype tho. so konami got one of the basic fundamentals of football right eventually. i don't really understand why people are so excited about the runs while just by looking at the videos the defensive ai looks absolutely flawed when countering them. there are plenty of defensive ai errors in the videos unless - i hope- is on beginner difficulty cause that would be worse than pes 2011. also these smart runs...you can't make a full back run like that back and forth for 90 minutes. i wonder how the fatigue system is designed to include this.

ball physics looks very good already. i'm sure they will improve even further by release.
 
I liked the videos. My two main concerns - and they're just that, concerns, nothing more - are:

- The control of the full-backs that actually do overlapping runs. I.e. While it's cool for the offense, I fear that I'll be very vulnerable to counter-attacks if the rest of the players don't adjust properly. And what if I don't want them to overlap?
- Regarding the off-the ball controls, I'm a bit wondering how will the CPU guess where exactly do I want the ball - i.e. to my front? Directly to me? Mid height, for the volley? High, for the header? Let's see.

Asides from that, really cool showings.

-- and welcome back klash!

Paulo Tavares
 
Very good videos and I'm pleased Konami are showing off what must be one of their strongest comparative advantages over FIFA right now. Some of this stuff already happens, but it's great that Konami are coming out fighting this year. Animations are improving big time too, still not FIFA, but really getting there.
 
pjft said:
I liked the videos. My two main concerns - and they're just that, concerns, nothing more - are:

- The control of the full-backs that actually do overlapping runs. I.e. While it's cool for the offense, I fear that I'll be very vulnerable to counter-attacks if the rest of the players don't adjust properly. And what if I don't want them to overlap?
- Regarding the off-the ball controls, I'm a bit wondering how will the CPU guess where exactly do I want the ball - i.e. to my front? Directly to me? Mid height, for the volley? High, for the header? Let's see.

Asides from that, really cool showings.

-- and welcome back klash!

Paulo Tavares
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I was always here's as Kobayashi, i just found my password :TTTH: :LOL:

I'd assume that the AI would do overlapping runs like with dummy runs depending on the players stats! i think that was the problem when putting it into the game. Do you want your players to make those runs at all etc..
 
Rodelero said:
Very good videos and I'm pleased Konami are showing off what must be one of their strongest comparative advantages over FIFA right now. Some of this stuff already happens, but it's great that Konami are coming out fighting this year. Animations are improving big time too, still not FIFA, but really getting there.
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I'm uploading a video which just shows the gameplay. With animations it dosen't need to get to FIFA sexy level because we forget FIFA's animations look better than real life football itself because of the lack or inertia and fundamentals. It looks so silky smooth and nice.

The key isn't to get to FIFA's level, it's to get to a level which represents football. FIFA's animations will always look better in it's current no momentum ideology.

I think PES 2011 was just a bit off from being at an acceptable level. mainly because of the lack of them and crap transition at times. ATM from this video PES 2012 it's comfortably at an acceptable level with animations.
 
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@Klash

Yup compared to 2011, I am so glad by the looks of it, "start-stop-start-stop" animation especially passing has been heavily tweaked for a positive result i.e more free-flowing feel. I can say "freezing time" is hardly to see anymore.

We can see from videos, for some instances, passing animation & its transition look naturally good. It shows that konami has capability of doing that with current engine. Unfortunately, there is still "deliberate" animation transition in certain case. But, thank goodness the one that really bothers me in PES 2011 the "start-stop-start-stop" situation will not happen anymore it seems :SMUG: . Tbh, overall it is much more solid animation,glad :)). I haven't seen yet 2011's "no momentum crossing animation" yet, i hope in final version i could say completely :BYE: to it. :P

Animation aside, attacking and defending ai improvement are much well structured, neat. Especially, if we closely look at the context of explanation with what happen in pitch. Those videos speak for themself. Today, i have played PES 2011 and FIFA 2011 pc version, haven't seen anything this solid in terms of overall ai movement.

So, i guess it is time for evo-web possible playtester to look at how this very nice "Active AI" improvements are influenced by tactic/strategy changes, player stats, and stamina as well as fatigue system :COOL:
 
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pjft said:
I liked the videos. My two main concerns - and they're just that, concerns, nothing more - are:

- Regarding the off-the ball controls, I'm a bit wondering how will the CPU guess where exactly do I want the ball - i.e. to my front? Directly to me? Mid height, for the volley? High, for the header? Let's see.

Asides from that, really cool showings.

-- and welcome back klash!

Paulo Tavares
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About that second point, chaos, one of the guys from prorevo that playtested the game, said this @wenb:

Yes, the second part. And of course did we test it against the AI. We scored 0 goals after dead ball situations. Ah wait, I think 1, a header after a corner. They did know very well how to defend. However, against other human players, it's a bit easier to score as they always move their defenders around.
One thing w.r.t dead ball situations: Players don't stand around like statues, they move, push other players away, raise their hands, etc.
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the latest video on pes 2012 with game talk by john murphy is now available for your pleasure, thanx for reminding me lami, i feel like they have knocked on my door that's how good i feel about pes 2012, it is going to be a great mile stone achievement for the release of the game, players actually move to create space that's why the game has improved in responsiveness these two elements were actually enough, oh even more additions wow looking good
 
klashman69 said:
I was always here's as Kobayashi, i just found my password :TTTH: :LOL:

I'd assume that the AI would do overlapping runs like with dummy runs depending on the players stats! i think that was the problem when putting it into the game. Do you want your players to make those runs at all etc..
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Oh, I know you were here as kobayashi - it's just that seeing you as "klashman" does bring back that cosy old feeling of the Evo-web veterans...

...now, if only ThomasGOAL would come back around, and give us inside tips... :)

EDIT: @_anderson, thanks for the clarification. Good to hear that the defense is tight against the AI, let's hope that this doesn't become an easy exploit when playing against a human opponent.
 
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Seriously, i love it.

The AI seems to be great, very special compared to all football games we ever played.

That overlap runs in sidelines are one of the tings i missed so much in pes 2011 to start building up my play properly from my defense. Amazing.

The AI has been improbed in all aspects. If they really get the right balance and right pace, omg...

The video is may not be enough to judge all the aspects of the game, but it's really evident how much smoother are the animations, and i have to say they really look way more natural. It's quite evident that we'll have a much better control over players.

Love some passing animation, crossing and shooting, and tehy still have time to improve them.

Ball physics (passing shooting) seems to be improved too, but it was slowed down, so we can not have that feeling yet...

I love the freedom of moving players in set pieces. Anyway, the game looks very promising.

I just hope that at 0:30 to 0:32 from the video that klash just posted is a bit accelerated.
 
I must say im very surprized with the videos...

For the first time since PES6 i like what i see from PES, and it made me excited again with it...

I just loved that goal at 0:40 on the Diagonal`s video :D
 
It's clear these videos are aimed at serious football fans. No bells or whistles, just purely highlighting tactical enhancements which, if they work well, will keep us playing PES2012 long after the sheen wears off the other game.

Well done Konami. Any true football fan should welcome this approach to promoting your game.
 
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