PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[Lami]

Huh? C'mon... We cannot be delusional... Shooting on -2 pre-patch was definitely not the same. I always had to shoot players like Rooney to get a decent powerful shot. But now I can have other players with lower stats with shots slightly powerful than pre-patch.

Also my defenders are more aware of the ball. Something I always complained about (shouting at the tv, lol) pre-patch. They'd just give way and not intercept much. Now they do it automatically, and the higher their defense stat, the higher the chance they will intercept.

Can also run into space with just the dash button now with Nani, the twins, Rooney for example. I couldn't do that before as slower defenders would catch up.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Huh? C'mon... We cannot be delusional... Shooting on -2 pre-patch was definitely not the same. I always had to shoot players like Rooney to get a decent powerful shot. But now I can have other players with lower stats with shots slightly powerful than pre-patch.

Also my defenders are more aware of the ball. Something I always complained about (shouting at the tv, lol) pre-patch. They'd just give way and not intercept much. Now they do it automatically, and the higher their defense stat, the higher the chance they will intercept.

Can also run into space with just the dash button now with Nani, the twins, Rooney for example. I couldn't do that before as slower defenders would catch up.

Different teams and different players Lami. I know my lads, and they felt exactly the same.

I thought the change from 1.02 to 1.03 was dramatic and instantly noticable. I felt nothing last night from 1.03 to 1.06. I'm only calling it how I saw it.

 

[dannyfc2]

I thought the change from 1.02 to 1.03 was dramatic and instantly noticable.

Not true

http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=66350&highlight=patch+impressions&page=2



If you and Keith initially presumed 1.03 was a placebo as well, when I think the consensus is now that the changes are quite pronounced a couple months on, I really doubt Konami lie about not altering gameplay.

All the versions I've played have been very different IMO, with the exclusion of 1.01 to 1.02

 

[ccshopland]

Huh? C'mon... We cannot be delusional... Shooting on -2 pre-patch was definitely not the same. I always had to shoot players like Rooney to get a decent powerful shot. But now I can have other players with lower stats with shots slightly powerful than pre-patch.

Also my defenders are more aware of the ball. Something I always complained about (shouting at the tv, lol) pre-patch. They'd just give way and not intercept much. Now they do it automatically, and the higher their defense stat, the higher the chance they will intercept.

Can also run into space with just the dash button now with Nani, the twins, Rooney for example. I couldn't do that before as slower defenders would catch up.

Lol, exactly Lam. Before, my go to shooters were Gerrard and Adam, players Suarez, Spearing, Henderson etc had tame little girl shots. Now, all players can hit a ball with velocity, differing in degrees to their stats. That CPU scripted wing through ball for the headed goal is gone. Defenders aloofness is now gone. Keepers being rubbish, is now gone.

Ball weight has definitely increased in my eyes, and there are tweaks to animations and keeper reactions. AI super dribble has all but gone but for the best dribblers in the world. Gameplay is balanced now, defence lines have been altered slightly. I'm even seeming different techniques on shooting and passing, the aerial game is now perfect (eg Coates wins almost every defensive header), crosses are less laser guided (used to be able to pinpoint Carroll all the time), and the actual aerial battle is a true scrappy challenge affair (ie no clean headers all the time).

Each to their own peeps, but I think 1.06 is quite a radical improvement lol.

 

[henrys hand]

Sorry Jimmy and Houchen,
but you are both wrong. At least on the xbox360 there is a gameplay-change for the better.

It's not placebo because I have the luxury to directly compare between version 1.03 and 1.06 back to back. On my hd I have 1.06 now and on my usb-stick I have version 1.03, just by selecting the usb-stick I can go back to 1.03.

Granted, the difference between 1.03 and 1.06 is not as dramatic as between 1.00 and 1.06 but still quite noticeable.

1.06 is more polished than 1.03 all around, be it playerreaction, ballphysics, passing or goalkeeper.

The result is a better feeling while playing it, it's more fun.

By the way, Jimmy, playing on zero-speed, you are missing out on quite a lot of individuality and realism. Gamespeed -2 is imho the way to go here.

 

[Blanco]

then it's time to change your signature mate

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Not true

http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=66350&highlight=patch+impressions&page=2



If you and Keith initially presumed 1.03 was a placebo as well, when I think the consensus is now that the changes are quite pronounced a couple months on, I really doubt Konami lie about not altering gameplay.

All the versions I've played have been very different IMO, with the exclusion of 1.01 to 1.02

Fair cop, instantly noticable was the wrong term then Danny, apologies. I genuinely thought those were my sentiments. I did mention better keepers, but like I said in that initial post, I'd only played two ML games.

This was the post after more play-time, which I absolutely subscribe too.

After a forced break over the festive period, I'm now back into my ML. I must admit I'm finding 1.03 more balanced than previous patches, and I'm really enjoying FL. The matches are playing out very realistically on Zero Assistance, I'm very happy. They certainly took some umph out of the shooting, or at least now, you need to apply both more power and directional hold. Apart from that obvious tweak, everything feels so much nicer to me.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Sorry Jimmy and Houchen,
but you are both wrong. At least on the xbox360 there is a gameplay-change for the better.

It's not wrong if it's an opinion. I stated I didn't feel any real difference, but that doesn't mean there hasn't been any changes. I just genuinely didn't feel anything. If others do, fair enough. It's the nature of PES.

 

[henrys hand]

It's not wrong if it's an opinion. I stated I didn't feel any real difference, but that doesn't mean there hasn't been any changes. I just genuinely didn't feel anything. If others do, fair enough. It's the nature of PES.

Of course, sorry, didn't mean to come over so harsh. But seriously, on the xbox360 there is a quantifiable difference and I know because I switch back and forth between 1.03 on my usb-stick and 1.06 on my hd.

The question is now, would I have been able to tell the difference without that direct comparing and switching back and forth.

That it is more fun, definitely, but pinpointing the exact contributions would have been difficult without directly comparing.

And maybe the speed of zero makes it more difficult to perceive the differences.

 

[xPJRx]

Different teams and different players Lami. I know my lads, and they felt exactly the same.

I thought the change from 1.02 to 1.03 was dramatic and instantly noticable. I felt nothing last night from 1.03 to 1.06. I'm only calling it how I saw it.

Have to agree in most part.
Have played over 13 seasons of ML on patch 1.03, upgraded to v1.06 over the weekend and the only major thing I noticed was that its definitely alot faster, had to switch down to -2 which felt too slow for me.

I Play on Superstar and was blatantly cheated out of an FA Cup semi final due to horrendous scripting, also my CF's who i can usually paint the corners of the net with, are struggling to score so im undecided on 1.06 yet, i dont notice any radical changes apart from the speed.

One thing i do know is that first time through balls DO NOT Work, and that the scheduling of matches is absolutely ridiculious.

2 examples:

This: Ridiculous Scheduling Example

and here, I spot DiVaio making a run off the shoulder of the last defender, i try toi play a first time through ball from Seedorf to feed him, I power the gauge up accordingly and it flops 2 yards in front of him. ridiculous: Through Ball Flop

PES12 is an amazing game, I love it, but its little things like this that let it down and need addrressing for PES13.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Have to agree in most part.
Have played over 13 seasons of ML on patch 1.03, upgraded to v1.06 over the weekend and the only major thing I noticed was that its definitely alot faster, had to switch down to -2 which felt too slow for me.

I Play on Superstar and was blatantly cheated out of an FA Cup semi final due to horrendous scripting, also my CF's who i can usually paint the corners of the net with, are struggling to score so im undecided on 1.06 yet, i dont notice any radical changes apart from the speed.

One thing i do know is that first time through balls DO NOT Work, and that the scheduling of matches is absolutely ridiculious.

2 examples:

This: Ridiculous Scheduling Example

and here, I spot DiVaio making a run off the shoulder of the last defender, i try toi play a first time through ball from Seedorf to feed him, I power the gauge up accordingly and it flops 2 yards in front of him. ridiculous: Through Ball Flop

PES12 is an amazing game, I love it, but its little things like this that let it down and need addrressing for PES13.

They never did, or at least not without a big charge/hold of the buttons. I assume the theory on Zero Assistance is that you get more success by taking a touch first. I have no problem with that, as it is technically correct for the most part, but it does also produce the moments you have mentioned.

I know holding high pass or low pass for longer on the de-press gives you the power for first-time passes. I can't remember if holding High Through-Ball does the same. I'm leaning towards that it doesn't though, I'll need to check again next time I'm on.

 

[xPJRx]

I get that Jimmy, but through ball is essentially a normal pass, just into space instead of to feet, and in real life, a player can run on to a loose ball and hit it first time into space for a team mate to run on to, without needing a first touch, at all levels of the game not just the Iniesta's of the world.
It happens alot and when you may only get 1 decent chance to score on superstar, it hurts.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I get that Jimmy, but through ball is essentially a normal pass, just into space instead of to feet, and in real life, a player can run on to a loose ball and hit it first time into space for a team mate to run on to, without needing a first touch, at all levels of the game not just the Iniesta's of the world.
It happens alot and when you may only get 1 decent chance to score on superstar, it hurts.

Don't get me wrong, there is an issue with it, it happens to me to. I kick myself everytime it happens as well.

 

[xPJRx]

Don't get me wrong, there is an issue with it, it happens to me to. I kick myself everytime it happens as well.

Its just these little things, that hopefully they will/can iron out for PES13 that will add up to a much more seamless experience.
Still loving the fact that after over 300hrs gameplay im still finding layers of depth and complexity with the game, and am on the edge of my seat most of the time.

Also thanks to a suggestion by a fellow poster on another forum, theres a 100% way to sell players, instead of having to release them when no one bids, which saves alot of compensation money and helps trim the squad ready for the transfer windows.

 

[zlac]

Also thanks to a suggestion by a fellow poster on another forum, theres a 100% way to sell players, instead of having to release them when no one bids, which saves alot of compensation money and helps trim the squad ready for the transfer windows.

In case you haven't already mentioned here how it's done, I'm all ears

 

[P34SEMM]

I've started ML and am playing as Wigan. When I play a match I don't have the official prem ball as it says I will in league in edit mode.

Anyone know how to assign a ball to a league in ML?

Thanks

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Sorry Jimmy and Houchen,
but you are both wrong. At least on the xbox360 there is a gameplay-change for the better.

It's not placebo because I have the luxury to directly compare between version 1.03 and 1.06 back to back. On my hd I have 1.06 now and on my usb-stick I have version 1.03, just by selecting the usb-stick I can go back to 1.03.

Granted, the difference between 1.03 and 1.06 is not as dramatic as between 1.00 and 1.06 but still quite noticeable.

1.06 is more polished than 1.03 all around, be it playerreaction, ballphysics, passing or goalkeeper.

The result is a better feeling while playing it, it's more fun.

By the way, Jimmy, playing on zero-speed, you are missing out on quite a lot of individuality and realism. Gamespeed -2 is imho the way to go here.

I can only call it as I see it as well, and I'm on 360 and I've barely noticed any changes to gameplay with 1.06. This is actually good news for me because I think there was a dramatic difference between 1.02 and 1.03, all for the positive, but any changes on 1.06 must be very minor.

Perhaps I'd say the game feels a tiny bit more even in terms of tackling the CPU on those crazy dribbles they attempt, so I guess there is a change, but the raw mechanics, ball physics, animations etc are all the same IMO. I think they've altered perhaps the CPU pressure a bit, there seems to be more space in their penalty area which is another positive thing, but these are CPU related tactics, pretty much, that could only have been implemented in a 2mb patch. I assume everyone else's updates were 2mb too ...

 

[xPJRx]

In case you haven't already mentioned here how it's done, I'm all ears

Zlac, No I hadnt mentioned it over on PESUltra mate, heres how its done:

Put the players you wish to sell on the transfer list, ignore their moans asking you why you have listed them, then every few days or once a week in game, take them off the transfer list then immediately relist them again, each time you do this their club affection will go down.
when it gets very low and they're unhappy you will receive a transfer bid for them.
The key is constantly relisting the player and igmoring their moans.

This method was suggested by someone else so just passing on the info.

I've started ML and am playing as Wigan. When I play a match I don't have the official prem ball as it says I will in league in edit mode.

Anyone know how to assign a ball to a league in ML?

Thanks

Steel Horse, go into Edit mode from the main menu, goto League/Cup then choose additional details ad theres a selection for the ball, just choose the league you want and the ball and then save your edit data.
next time you start up ML the ball you chose should be the one used.

 

[P34SEMM]

Cheers

 

[radha1]

Aside from all this subtle stuff about ball weight and fluidity, what about possession rates and cpu buildup. Does anyone have Match Details from 15 or 20 minute games on any difficulty?

 

[P34SEMM]

Anyone recommend a good ML team?
I like to use the proper club players as the made up ones are shite.
I might try Wigan again but they have made the crap teams really crap this year and it's too hard and not enough fun. It's more like a chore.
I've tried Wigan, Toon, A Bilbao & A Madrid and I don't like using any of these teams. Might try with Wigan, QPR or Newcastle again

I normally play on pro -2 15 min games

 

[henrys hand]

I can only call it as I see it as well, and I'm on 360 and I've barely noticed any changes to gameplay with 1.06. This is actually good news for me because I think there was a dramatic difference between 1.02 and 1.03, all for the positive, but any changes on 1.06 must be very minor.

Perhaps I'd say the game feels a tiny bit more even in terms of tackling the CPU on those crazy dribbles they attempt, so I guess there is a change, but the raw mechanics, ball physics, animations etc are all the same IMO. I think they've altered perhaps the CPU pressure a bit, there seems to be more space in their penalty area which is another positive thing, but these are CPU related tactics, pretty much, that could only have been implemented in a 2mb patch. I assume everyone else's updates were 2mb too ...

Just to assure that I'm not hallucinating I compared today version 1.03 and 1.06 for two hours straight. The differences are subtle but they are a lot and add to up to a whole other gameplay-feeling. So what are these changes?

1. They made the player-models more tight in movement and added the ability to do more touches on the ball without using R2. Just with the analog-stick you can push the ball a little from one foot to the next so so to speak and therefore gain more time on the ball.

2. Gamespeed is a little faster. That way gamespeed -2 is now imho just perfect, it was a bit slow before on 1.03 but even there it was to be preferred to -1.

3. Shooting is better, you have more control over the direction and good players give more curve to the ball without pressing another button.

4. The ball is more independent. I would say he was never as free on next-gen as he is now with patch 1.06, which is a great thing. Because of that more random situations happen and you can actually get the ball when getting to itjust a milisecond before the opponent...

5. Space has now more meaning in the game. This has to do with two things: a) The pressure is not as relentless as before, which is more realistic and b) There seems to be no more unrealistic speeding up-boost of opponents to close down space. That leads to the next improvement.

6. Throughballs are now actually useful and a dangerous weapon on both sides. It is so because of the point 4 and 5 as well as 7:

7. Faster players are actually faster, the catchup-bug has been reduced. Not totally gone, but considerably reduced. That way to change in a fresh technically good player during the 70th minute has actually an advantage.

8. Stumbling players can more quickly regain their balance and try to get the ball again.

9. Collision-physics work better and more diverse.

10. Teams play more diverse now, probably this has to do with changed tactics that came with the DLC's, but who cares, any imporvement in that regard is a blessing.


Verdict: This patch 1.06 uses a lot of the improvements of 1.03 and made these additional subtle changes which result in a more open and more fun gameplay. This is the closest PES on next-gen comes to achieve the fun-factor of the PS2-versions without sacrifing realism... You know what I mean, that addiction to want to play just one more game is back! Great work from Konami.

I only wished the game would have been released this way on day 1. It would have prevented months of torture.

 

[ccshopland]

Aside from all this subtle stuff about ball weight and fluidity, what about possession rates and cpu buildup. Does anyone have Match Details from 15 or 20 minute games on any difficulty?

Possession rates vary according to the type of team you play. I generally get around 55% - 58% because that's the type of game I play. But saying that, I played Arsenal yesterday, 20 minute game on Superstar and possession was 50-50; so take your pick.

The biggest plus I can point out in terms of possession is that all the CPU's possession stats have less 'super dribble time' attached to them, so essentially their possession time is based purely on build up and passing and not everyone super dribbling.

Saying that, the build up play in this years games generally is still below par. PES has a more varied and better more organic build up, but the emphasis is still to go forward at almost every opportunity, unless the team is a pronounced possession team.

All in all though, 1.06 is a LOT of fun. Superstar is now really nicely balanced, and lots of my gripes with the game have been ironed out. If people are expecting totally different gameplay, then they'll be disappointed. What 1.06 does do is diminish some of the glaringly obvious pain in the arse areas, and make the gameplay less of a cheat fest, have more pronounced individuality and player body movement, add more weight and shot power across the board with the ball physics, and improve keepers response.

This is all I ask for to be honest. I'm critical when KONAMI treat us like idiots, but I'll offer praise when they do their best. In this instance, I really believe they have done their best, and for the first time, I am really starting to look forward to 2013 if fan feedback is being acted on.

 

[ccshopland]

Just to assure that I'm not hallucinating I compared today version 1.03 and 1.06 for two hours straight. The differences are subtle but they are a lot and add to up to a whole other gameplay-feeling. So what are these changes?

1. They made the player-models more tight in movement and added the ability to do more touches on the ball without using R2. Just with the analog-stick you can push the ball a little from one foot to the next so so to speak and therefore gain more time on the ball.

2. Gamespeed is a little faster. That way gamespeed -2 is now imho just perfect, it was a bit slow before on 1.03 but even there it was to be preferred to -1.

3. Shooting is better, you have more control over the direction and good players give more curve to the ball without pressing another button.

4. The ball is more independent. I would say he was never as free on next-gen as he is now with patch 1.06, which is a great thing. Because of that more random situations happen and you can actually get the ball when getting to itjust a milisecond before the opponent...

5. Space has now more meaning in the game. This has to do with two things: a) The pressure is not as relentless as before, which is more realistic and b) There seems to be no more unrealistic speeding up-boost of opponents to close down space. That leads to the next improvement.

6. Throughballs are now actually useful and a dangerous weapon on both sides. It is so because of the point 4 and 5 as well as 7:

7. Faster players are actually faster, the catchup-bug has been reduced. Not totally gone, but considerably reduced. That way to change in a fresh technically good player during the 70th minute has actually an advantage.

8. Stumbling players can more quickly regain their balance and try to get the ball again.

9. Collision-physics work better and more diverse.

10. Teams play more diverse now, probably this has to do with changed tactics that came with the DLC's, but who cares, any imporvement in that regard is a blessing.


Verdict: This patch 1.06 uses a lot of the improvements of 1.03 and made these additional subtle changes which result in a more open and more fun gameplay. This is the closest PES on next-gen comes to achieve the fun-factor of the PS2-versions without sacrifing realism... You know what I mean, that addiction to want to play just one more game is back! Great work from Konami.

I only wished the game would have been released this way on day 1. It would have prevented months of torture.

Sorry to double post, but I just totally agree with everything here. Like I say if anyone is expecting wholesale dramatic changes then let's be fair it's not going to happen, it can't possibly happen, it's still essentially the same game. What patch 1.06 is, is a lovely sweeping patch which tidies up lots of areas, which for me, makes this game near enough a 9/10 effort, -2 gamespeed, Superstar, 20 minute games. I really feel now a whole new landscape when I'm on the ball, some of the fouls that I can draw, and usage of momentum, body weight, and angle creation for moves is quite staggering. It's as open and free a game of football that I've ever played. I haven't had one bad/dodgy game in the last 15 that I've played. Fantastic work KONAMI.

 

[radha1]

Possession rates vary according to the type of team you play. I generally get around 55% - 58% because that's the type of game I play. But saying that, I played Arsenal yesterday, 20 minute game on Superstar and possession was 50-50; so take your pick.

The biggest plus I can point out in terms of possession is that all the CPU's possession stats have less 'super dribble time' attached to them, so essentially their possession time is based purely on build up and passing and not everyone super dribbling.

Saying that, the build up play in this years games generally is still below par. PES has a more varied and better more organic build up, but the emphasis is still to go forward at almost every opportunity, unless the team is a pronounced possession team.

All in all though, 1.06 is a LOT of fun. Superstar is now really nicely balanced, and lots of my gripes with the game have been ironed out. If people are expecting totally different gameplay, then they'll be disappointed. What 1.06 does do is diminish some of the glaringly obvious pain in the arse areas, and make the gameplay less of a cheat fest, have more pronounced individuality and player body movement, add more weight and shot power across the board with the ball physics, and improve keepers response.

This is all I ask for to be honest. I'm critical when KONAMI treat us like idiots, but I'll offer praise when they do their best. In this instance, I really believe they have done their best, and for the first time, I am really starting to look forward to 2013 if fan feedback is being acted on.

Thanks so much for that post. I'm thinking of digging PES 2012 out the hole its been in...

 

[Blanco]

I've played my first 4 matches with 1.06 and my first impression is positive.

The first thing I noticed was more freedom. Less railing with throughpasses. When I give a throughpass in an open space next to my runner, he runs automatically towards the ball.
Only when there's a marker between me and the ball I have to use supercancel.
Also good reactions on the loose ball and plenty of deep runs.
More fouls for both sides, better and more random collisions.
Shooting and headers were good. More midfield play, less direct.

Only the keepers make lots of silly mistakes during charges and deflected shots.
And game/ball speed is too fast imo.

But a good base for the gameplay patch makers

 

[Jamezinho]

Something is up with this latest patch because I've found myself playing this game everyday, which has not happened since the game was released.

The game feels a little more open, a little more balanced and much more fun to play. I genuinely don't think there is a placebo effect at work here. All previous versions of this game have failed to capture me but this one is different. It could just be that a number of small tweaks have come together to form an improvement bigger than the sum of its parts.

 

[StayingPower]

Those of you playing with -2 gamespeed, how do you manage it? It seems much too slow for me, like it's in slow-motion. Ideally I'd like something in between -1 and 0, the ball seems a bit slow on -1 but the players seem a bit too fast on 0.

 

[_anderson]

Something is up with this latest patch because I've found myself playing this game everyday, which has not happened since the game was released.

The game feels a little more open, a little more balanced and much more fun to play. I genuinely don't think there is a placebo effect at work here. All previous versions of this game have failed to capture me but this one is different. It could just be that a number of small tweaks have come together to form an improvement bigger than the sum of its parts.

Me too! Even considering that if we try to put a finger on what exactly changed (except for sidestep, shooting and keepers, imo those three things deffo changed for the best), overall it provides a much more enjoyable game of football that, even with the AI scoring at almost every chance they get, I want to keep playing it match after match.

 

[P34SEMM]

Keepers are better but still shite.
Better at shot saving and catching etc but terrible at positioning.
Lost 4-3 to Swansea as Wigan and for every goal my keeper was either on 6 yard box or penalty spot for some reason.

25 games of pes since last Friday and still yet to have seen a penalty awarded.