PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Problem is also the cheating in PES 2012. You think that with R2 you finally found the cure for the endless passing and dribbling of the CPU-AI, you mix it with containment and a slide here and there and the game gets better defensively.

You even get the impression, well this time you will beat the CPU on superstar. But then the cheating helps out the CPU, a shot comes in that the goallkeeper parries and of course he does it into the path of one of the opponent's strikers.

I wouldn't call that cheating if it happened on the other side as well, but it doesn't, on the other side whenever the goalkeeper parries, he either parries in such a way that it gets quickly over the cornerline or into the feet of its own defensive players.

And even if you say to yourself, ok, then I have to prevent every shot on goal to prevent this parrying, you try to always get a player in between... your own players deflect the ball into the goal. Have you ever seen Ribery deflect a ball into the own goal in real life?

So you say, ok, let's prevent the shot from ever happening... then you get more freekick-situations and guess what, these freekicks do tend to go in.:COAT:
 
Flaw3d Genius said:
Lets see what 1.04 brings.
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And what do you guys think about the first demo ? In the whole package the demo 2 may be superior to the demo 1 (shooting, goalkepers and etc), but I personaly think that this latter had an amazing AI defence system (positioning as a Team, not those 1-1s situations). I loved how I felt the need to play collectively on my defence in demo 1, trying to keep the team in shape and closing gaps with full concentration. It was really rewardable, challenging and fun (again, i'm not talking about the 1-1s situations and the ridiculous advantage the CPU had on this).

In the full release version, when i watch my brother playing online all i see is double pressure all over the place non-stop, and Ai positioning is a complete mess. My last experience against the Ai was a mess as well, i turned off the console after 3 mins.:CONFUSE:
 
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I'm finding 2012 on the PS3 just superb lately. I'm even finding the CPU build up play varied and interesting once my formations and tactics have been implemented. On Superstar, you really, really have to know your apples in terms of pressing (or not) positional play, hold up play and tackling.

The full plethora of real life 'in game situations' is contained here in PES. For example, one aspect that I have really learned this last few months is breaking up the play with fouls and cards. On Superstar, this is vital for success. The second thing (which becomes abundantly clear when you view the latest Barce games) is that possession means jack shit. In fact, I've come to the conclusion that if I'm getting 60-65% possession, thrn I'm doing something wrong. One of the keys to 2012 is variety in your play. Are you passing the ball when you could be carrying it into space? Are you running when there is support? Are you being counter attacked all the time? Could this be because you have too many strikers, and are not cramming the midfield? For me, and the style of play that I choose, the key to the game isn't controlling the pitch just outside the CPU's penalty area, invariably they would have choked you into a point where the crowd of players is dense; but rather controlling the game in the area of the pitch 30 yards out. Here you can really make your possession game work if you wish, or you opt for long balls (cross field or into the box).

What PES does fantastically well is do what football IRL does well. In that to get from defence to attack is relatively easy if you want just field position, but to be able to play an effective game this rarely works. In fact is far better to work the CPU about the pitch between say 30 yards out and the halfway line.

For me, players fall into a number of traps.

Like any game of football, the game will invariably fall into three categories.

1) The balanced game - where the CPU sets out its formation and the game is a cautiously to and fro encounter enabled by your tactics AND the CPUs'

2) CPU park the bus/counter - here the CPU will play a very cautious defensive game, and look to counter with faster attackers. THIS IS THE GAME THAT PLAYERS I BELIEVE HAVE PROBLEMS WITH. The tips I would say is that this type of game requires total patience and slow probing. In this type of game, don't look to get players trigger running in front of players, you are opening yourself up completely to the counter. Make sure you have enough central midfield man power to combat the quick counters. Don't look to over attack too fast. Invariably, the art of this type of game is to probe patiently, with the objective of finding that one moment in the second half. Remember, that the first goal in these type of matches is crucial, because if the CPU gets it from YOUR over-committal and non-patience, then to break them down twice for the win is going to be a huge task.

3) The CPU all out attack - this game 'I' look to counter. I cram the midfield, and narrow the pitch. I sacrifice artistic flair and an abundance of strikers for good support players, and wait for my moment to stream forward.

There are other caveats to playing the CPU, especially with regards to the 'park the bus' game. I believe many players look to pick their best XI v the CPU, and this normally hinge around picking the best two or three forwards at your disposal. This will not work in 2012. Leaving the midfield a vacant war zone will end in a disastrous end to end slug fest. Another alternative to playing the CPU park the bus game in an oppressive patient fashion, is to drop deep yourself, thereby inviting CPU players to cross the half way line, committing men forward, and eventually opening up the game.

The bottom line is, is that tactically this year's game keeps me on my toes each and every game. For the first time ever in fact, I have to weigh up and sacrifice better players for players that can get the job done, and fit into my philosophy. I've never cared about this before, I've never had to. I've always just shaped the game around me. I've always just spanked the lower teams and had decent games against the top two or three teams, now it's game on each and every game with different teams giving me different problems. QPR for example are giving me constant ball ache with Tarabt and their very direct style of play, so now I look to pack the midfield and shut them out, make them go down the sides where they are less effective.

I love this years PES. One of the biggest other pluses is just the pace of the games. I play on -2 gamespeed. But the way the game tempo is within the game, is just superb. There can be out an out end to end slug fests, slow technical games, scrappy games, flowing games etc etc.

An example would be a Europa clash yesterday, it was slow, lethargic, painstaking affair, from start to finish. Both myself and the CPU just cancelled each other out and I was happy with an away 0-0 (this is on 20 minute game). I then had a game were Newcastle went all out attack against me, I changed my tactics to hit them on the break and play deeper, and won 2-1, great game. Then a 'normal' game in the league, of equal risk/reward between me and Villa.

The bottom line is the game is varied in so many ways that to date, I believe it's the best footy game in any series. It's only when I switch to FIFA do I begin to appreciate the intricacy and variation that makes this years game great.
 
What new Copa Libertadores mode could they implement!? its already in the game!

Im more interested in what the gameplay refinements contain.
 
Hopefully we get some white balls in this DLC as there seems to be a lack of useable balls in PES.

edit: just found this...

This update will also "refine" selected areas of PES 2012 "for a more fluid in-game experience".
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Good stuff, it's my main gripe with PES 2012 now that it's clunky rather than fluid.
 
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xPJRx said:
What new Copa Libertadores mode could they implement!? its already in the game!

Im more interested in what the gameplay refinements contain.
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Perhaps with 2012 teams and rosters?


Edit: Quote from pesfan
PES 2012 DLC updates Copa Santander Libertadores


Konami Digital Entertainment GmbH has outlined the next free downloadable content for PES 2012.

The download will be released for PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 and Windows PC on April 27th, and enhances the game’s use of the Copa Santander Libertadores licence. The DLC will introduce a dedicated ‘Copa Santander Libertadores 2012’ game mode, with all the 38 teams, rosters and the official ball for the 2012 competition brought fully up to date.

Similarly, selected parts of the game have been refined for a more fluid in-game experience.
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Source: http://www.pesfan.com/news/10062278/PES-2012-DLC-updates-Copa-Santander-Libertadores/
 
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henrys hand said:
Like most of the time, there won't be details, I guess you have to try it out on Friday and report in detail.:))
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Risky, as im currently very happy with PES 2012, so dont want to blindly install a patch that affects the core gameplay without knowing what it does, with no way to revert back to 1.03
 
ok so im in need of help.

Seen a few goals in the goal thread which have some amazing power and curl on them. I cant seem to do these goals.

What are people using to generate power and using for curl?

thanks
 
This update will also "refine" selected areas of PES 2012 "for a more fluid in-game experience".
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Meaning... what? These broad kind of statements are poor. The least they could is detail what they're changing. I don't get why they're so secretive about this stuff.
Either it's PR bullshit and they didn't change anything, so there's nothing to detail, or it's that Japanese mentality of "striving for perfection and embarrassed of detailing where we founds faults" kicking in again.
 
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Shikashi said:
Meaning... what? These broad kind of statements are poor. The least they could is detail what they're changing. I don't get why they're so secretive about this stuff.
Either it's PR bullshit and they didn't change anything, so there's nothing to detail, or it's that Japanese mentality of "striving for perfection and embarrassed of detailing where we founds faults" kicking in again.
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Every patch so far has had a dramatic change so i cant see this being bullshit with them not changing anything.

The good thing is they have took their time with this latest patch so im expecting it to be the best one yet.
 
One thing Konami need to wash up on is community transparency and change control.

Their official website should contain a change control log for all software titles, so for PES it should detail the version number, date of release, format patched (ie PS3/XBOX etc) and details of the changes.
This is common practise to anyone thats ever run or managed projects before, and they should also provide the option to run at ANY of the released versions. So if you upgrade to v1.04 and you dont like it, you can roll back to the prev version.
 
Flaw3d Genius said:
Every patch so far has had a dramatic change so i cant see this being bullshit with them not changing anything.

The good thing is they have took their time with this latest patch so im expecting it to be the best one yet.
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But the statement is made in such broad strokes that nobody knows what it means. Is it A.I changes? Transitions between animation changes? "More fluid game experience" can mean lots of different things.
 
Shikashi said:
But the statement is made in such broad strokes that nobody knows what it means. Is it A.I changes? Transitions between animation changes? "More fluid game experience" can mean lots of different things.
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Why not make a separate profile on PS3 or xbox 360 and try out the 1.04-patch? If it's worse than before then you can always continue to play again on the other profile with the 1.03 patch, can't you?
 
henrys hand said:
Why not make a separate profile on PS3 or xbox 360 and try out the 1.04-patch? If it's worse than before then you can always continue to play again on the other profile with the 1.03 patch, can't you?
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I have the PC version.
And that doesn't work, btw. The HDD is shared by all the profiles in the console. You don't download title updates to your profile.
 
Although 1.03 took it's time to arrive, and therefore delayed the 'true' final product, I still think Konami should be praised for the continued commitment to enhance this years version. They are striving to make the game better 6 months down the line which can only be applauded. In years gone by we got the release date version, and that was it for the year.

I have no doubt that 1.04 will be better than 1.03. How ? I have no idea, but I certainly don't think it will be to PES 2012's detriment.
 
Regards the DLC I think the following could be the case :

It says ''2012 mode'' so I reckon what we might be getting is the option to play the Copa as it came with the game, with there also being an option to select the new ''2012 mode''. If that were to be the case, of which I am uncertain, it technically means additional teams as opposed to teams being replaced, though I would also reckon that you won't be able to play exhibition games between the 2011 and 2012 teams due to licensing complications - would love to be proved wrong here though.

As for the gameplay improvements/enhancements? Haven't a clue but I would love for the side-step move to be taken out/smoothed out, shooting to be ''loosened'' and maybe a few wee AI tweaks so as COM team behaviours are freshened up, especially in defence. Really though, it could be anything...
 
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curdstar said:
As for the gameplay improvements/enhancements? Haven't a clue but I would love for the side-step move to be taken out/smoothed out, shooting to be ''loosened'' and maybe a few wee AI tweaks so as COM team behaviours are freshened up, especially in defence. Really though, it could be anything...
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Out of interest how come Adam doesnt know anything about this patch if he's working on PES 2013 with Konami?
 
Will this DLC (the one for Libertadores) be free to download ? When will the 1.04 patch be avaliable ?

I don't play PES 2012 for about 2 months or more, i don't know how it plays with the 1.03 patch. I've read here good positive analysis about 1.03, so if the 1.04 improves the game even more and this DLC is confirmed to be free, maybe i'll buy PES 2012 again.

I don't feel much enthusiams to play Fifa 12.
 
DuduBR9 said:
Will this DLC (the one for Libertadores) be free to download ? When will the 1.04 patch be avaliable ?

I don't play PES 2012 for about 2 months or more, i don't know how it plays with the 1.03 patch. I've read here good positive analysis about 1.03, so if the 1.04 improves the game even more and this DLC is confirmed to be free, maybe i'll buy PES 2012 again.

I don't feel much enthusiams to play Fifa 12.
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All free to download.
 
Just started replaying PES. I don't think I've ever tried 1.03, the game feels better. Just played a match of FIFA 12 and PES 2012 back to back. PES 1.03 feels more more like proper football, but clearly FIFA wins in aesthetics.

Been using R2 for mostly everything, seems to work fine, but I've been playing on regular so most of the problems aren't as noticeable.

Just one quick question, is there a way to shoot powerful low shots? I have no idea how they works for 2012.
 
Flaw3d Genius said:
Out of interest how come Adam doesnt know anything about this patch if he's working on PES 2013 with Konami?
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Adam is away with his work at the moment. I haven't spoke to him to see if he has been updated, which he usually is.

As for him working with Konami regards PES, I am sure he will talk more about this in due course. It isn't a personal crusade either by the way and neither is it the case that only certain voices will be heard. For example, when I do feedback reports that I send directly back to Jon, who in turn passes them on to the developers (of which I know to be the fact) I do of course use the feedback sections on our boards and comments sections on the main page but I also use a great deal of what is posted and discussed in here as well.

I happen to think that the evo-web community is far, far superior to the likes of PESFan and PES Gaming when it comes to talking PES, though that isnot to say these sites don't have their own strengths regards content and coverage. Even those on here who openly dislike WENB for whatever reason do make excellent points regards the games and I am not going to let what dislike they may have for the site, Adam or myself get in the way of collating good feedback. I post and engage in discussion on here for a reason.

You would be pretty surprised as to the rapport that exists between WENB and evo-web behind the scenes and it is something everyone involved is looking to improve further.
 
Is there any similarity between the 1.03 patch and one of the demos ? I mean... the positive stuff that made the game promising from the demos are present on this latest patch ?

If so, i'm really looking forward to buy pes 2012 again.
 
Shikashi said:
Just started replaying PES. I don't think I've ever tried 1.03, the game feels better. Just played a match of FIFA 12 and PES 2012 back to back. PES 1.03 feels more more like proper football, but clearly FIFA wins in aesthetics.

Been using R2 for mostly everything, seems to work fine, but I've been playing on regular so most of the problems aren't as noticeable.

Just one quick question, is there a way to shoot powerful low shots? I have no idea how they works for 2012.
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Use the speed burst move (R1 + R2) to set up a strike that needs only a light tap of shoot and results in a low drive. Alternatively, teeing up players to sprint on to and take a first time strike allows you to do similar - use manual modifier passes to set them up.
 
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