PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

ccshopland said:
Really starting to appreciate work horses in teams more and more this year. Almost every day I'm finding something new out in both a tactical sense and player individuality sense. Lucas for example, is probably my most important player in the Liverpool team. His positional play and work rate enables Gerrard to sit in front of a midfield triangle and break play up. Also the importance of that/or those midfield players who sit and do nothing spectacular is absolutely key in my philosophy. They are so important. I also have my defensive tactics down to a tee now, and this is another area where I really think the player has to sit down and work out, and nail for themselves. For example, I play a 4-5-1 system sometimes and 4-4-1-1 system at others. It's important to know what your gameplan is in terms of where you want to 'start your defence' against the CPU. This is an area, where if the player is erratic or non-disciplined, can exploit fully with dribbles and passing triangles.

Learning where your defensive line is, incorporating the right amount of pressure slider and formation goes a long way to getting enjoyment out of the game. My philosophy is such that I employ a defensive line of 14 for example, and reasonable pressure of 12. I am willing for my lone striker to cut off passing lanes high up the pitch, but once the ball breaks from their defence I am willing to concede ground. I then decide where I start my defensive technique, which is primarily from around 30-35 yards out. It's a fine line, for me at least, it's about getting as fast to the opposition player as possible within a reasonable distance to make the CPU think again about dribbling, but once I'm there it's a patient defensive approach, looking for runners off the ball and being particularly aware of the 1-2. I rinse and repeat this over and over until I am well versed in how my team operates.

Getting to know your team seems one of those throwaway cheap lines, but this year of all years, I feel it paramount that you know every players strengths and weaknesses to fit into your tactical scheme.
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Man, it's been so great hearing you and a few others getting some real joy out of this game. I'm reminded of of how deep and tactical the game can be. I really want to get back into it, to find that happy gameplay. But i feel like i've been caught by this terrible cold that i can't get rid of. Last night i played as newcastle against athletico madrid on professional, 15 minutes, and had 64% of the possession! I just dont know how to convince myself that that equals good gameplay? I wish i could just ignore it altogether....
 
shorty alien said:
Those are extreme exaggerations. There ARE noticeable stat differences between defenders, and the defensive system is nuanced, flexible and sophisticated once you get to grips with it. The training tutorial doesn't give you the full picture and cannot solely be relied upon.

Top defenders have a greater likelihood of winning tackles with a higher success rate and better tracking and blocking, as I've found in my MLO team when I'm playing with De Jong/Mvilla/Toulalan shielding my back four or Kompany/Gallas/Gamberini repelling dangerous forwards. But that's a greater likelihood as I mentioned not a foolproof one, as even they, Maldini and co. are not perfect. And it's true, just like in real life even attacking players on hot form have an annoyingly greater chance of nicking the ball off you when they have their tails up.

I agree with the removal of the defensive cards that helped to add further strengths to some defenders, I'd like them back along with the judicious removal of some attacking cards like the unnecessary and overpowered speed merchant card.

Compared to PES 2011 you can tell there is more of an attacking focus, just like there was from PES5 to PES 6, but, it is not COMPLETELY unbalanced. They've still given us a flexible system for defending that can help to balance out the attacking.

With all due respect it seems you haven't yet mastered the defensive system to a decent degree if it seems this troublesome for you.

There are a few tutorials on this site and others that give greater understanding and more depth to the ways you can use the defensive system to your advantage, if you haven't already found it out yourself.
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This.

Also, top defenders have much greater positional sense, they read the game better and more often than not, are in the right place at the right time to either mop-up, or produce that winning challenge. There is an obvious scripted bias, especially when intercepting the 'killer' passes. It's a means to an end, an artistic licence that highlights the higher level of defensive player.

Football in real-life can feel very scripted at times, and has always had that term associated with the game. And for obvious reason. Scripting isn't cheating. Take Del Piero's amazing free-kick for Juventus in the 80th minute in his last game to secure a huge 3 points. On his 700th appearance he marks it with a trademark classic free-kick to win the game. That was in the script.........
 
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Does anyone have a solution to playing neanderthals online that are intent on playing throughballs in the air or flat ALL THE TIME?

0 skill required you can have 70% of the ball but all they do is the moment you lose it they chip or splay a throughpass even from their own half. If wide they run onto it and cross immediately or to head home 7/10 times or the just lob to a striker that usually outpaces the defender to chip over the keeper.

I play possession play try not to commit forward but the moment I lose it I can feel the ball getting pumped upfield and of you defending with Chygrysnki, Heitinga or Rozenhal against someone like Pedro it just isn't enough.

Seriously seabass why you do this?!
 
ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue said:
same lame(lami?) excuse if someone is writing about this issue, boring..
u know how i(and others) mean it, stop this crap
off course there are scrips, i mean cheat scripts, overdone way too strong "momentum", call it however u want..

in a way u disrespect people like yair and others with such statements, think about it..
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Why so serious?

Take a chill pill. You're acting like I disrespected someone/thing so dear to you. My post contained disrespect to no one. And I meant every word I said in that post. Every video-game is a script-fest. We haven't reached that stage where AI can act on it's own without giving it all the possibilities it should take. Don't know if that's ever going to happen in the future.

And about PES always heavily favoring CPU teams with momentum/cheat scripts, I don't agree there. It sure might be there to give us a challenge but I don't see it in every game. It's not as prevalent as you may think. Practice defending, get better at it and you'll see what I mean. I don't know but I really don't see it the way you put it. All I see it as a challenge every now and then and I try my best to win, even if it makes me pull my hair. It's a game after all, there are few ways to give gamers a challenge through programming, specially in this age. That is how I think.
 
zeemeister said:
Does anyone have a solution to playing neanderthals online that are intent on playing throughballs in the air or flat ALL THE TIME?

0 skill required you can have 70% of the ball but all they do is the moment you lose it they chip or splay a throughpass even from their own half. If wide they run onto it and cross immediately or to head home 7/10 times or the just lob to a striker that usually outpaces the defender to chip over the keeper.

I play possession play try not to commit forward but the moment I lose it I can feel the ball getting pumped upfield and of you defending with Chygrysnki, Heitinga or Rozenhal against someone like Pedro it just isn't enough.

Seriously seabass why you do this?!
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It's 4-Bar Pass Assistance bud, and the reason I won't play MLO online anymore. They have to have filters for those that wish to play the game at it's most simulated and those who want an arcade variation.
 
dannyfc2 said:
1.03 is much superior to the demos, in near enough every respect. The absence of individuality in those preliminary codes was fucking atrocious.
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I agree, version 1.03 is fantastic so far. It seems to have corrected demo 2's tendency for the play to be too open and counter attack minded, pressure is way more forgiving than in previous versions and keepers properly fixed. I'm happy with it so far.

I sold the game after trying versions 1.00, 1.01 and 1.02 and couldn't stand losing virtually every game in the 85th minute or later, but on 1.03 I rarely concede late goals. In fact, I have a tendency to score them late on which is bizarre.
 
Chimps-with-quiffs said:
The turfs and add boards make a massive difference to what the game looks like. I think konami would do well to introduce the ability to import them into the ps3 and xbox versions and not lock any of the default stadiums to editing.
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I tried the demo on my girlfriend's PC which is fairly high end, and it looked great running at 60fps. Textures were still fuzzy though, I presume there's some kind of graphics patch that fixes this rather than just being the hardware alone?
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
It's 4-Bar Pass Assistance bud, and the reason I won't play MLO online anymore. They have to have filters for those that wish to play the game at it's most simulated and those who want an arcade variation.
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Or a filter which actually works. Konmai did say they were giving seperate lobbies but instead gave us a preference in the quick match selection which looks for players with a SIMILAR pass assistance to the one you have it set at.

It really should have been put in the match options rights at the start of every match
 
Hell just seeing the other players options would be a start and why for the love of Messi would you have a setting to pass, shoot and tackle for you?

To make matters worse its the default setting. Konami need to think these things through. Imagine the CPU scoring for you. I'd be most upset.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
It's 4-Bar Pass Assistance bud, and the reason I won't play MLO online anymore. They have to have filters for those that wish to play the game at it's most simulated and those who want an arcade variation.
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I though Konami fixed online for people wanting to play 0 assists?


zeemeister said:
Hell just seeing the other players options would be a start and why for the love of Messi would you have a setting to pass, shoot and tackle for you?

To make matters worse its the default setting. Konami need to think these things through. Imagine the CPU scoring for you. I'd be most upset.
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I actually had the CPU score for me the first few games i played when i got the game, My player shot and scored without me pressing a single button lol. It's an odd choice that Konami think we all need the CPU to shoot for us.
 
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zeemeister said:
Does anyone have a solution to playing neanderthals online that are intent on playing throughballs in the air or flat ALL THE TIME?

0 skill required you can have 70% of the ball but all they do is the moment you lose it they chip or splay a throughpass even from their own half. If wide they run onto it and cross immediately or to head home 7/10 times or the just lob to a striker that usually outpaces the defender to chip over the keeper.

I play possession play try not to commit forward but the moment I lose it I can feel the ball getting pumped upfield and of you defending with Chygrysnki, Heitinga or Rozenhal against someone like Pedro it just isn't enough.

Seriously seabass why you do this?!
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I play minus 1 att/def level as standard as soon as the game kicks off, and a zero defensive line on team style, to help against throughball and chipped throughball spam. Again not foolproof, but it helps. Also get wingers/smfs to track back and mark wide opposition players.
 
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LTFC said:
I tried the demo on my girlfriend's PC which is fairly high end, and it looked great running at 60fps. Textures were still fuzzy though, I presume there's some kind of graphics patch that fixes this rather than just being the hardware alone?
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If you install the kitserver and then Jenkey's tool, I think it contains some graphic enhancing software with settings for the game already set up

As well as this there is a number of turf and add-board patches that make a big difference and jenkeys stadium server which contains some superb stadiums.
 
Chimps-with-quiffs said:
If you install the kitserver and then Jenkey's tool, I think it contains some graphic enhancing software with settings for the game already set up

As well as this there is a number of turf and add-board patches that make a big difference and jenkeys stadium server which contains some superb stadiums.
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Cheers, I'll check that out :)
 
Lami said:
Why so serious?
And about PES always heavily favoring CPU teams with momentum/cheat scripts, I don't agree there. It sure might be there to give us a challenge but I don't see it in every game. It's not as prevalent as you may think. Practice defending, get better at it and you'll see what I mean. I don't know but I really don't see it the way you put it. All I see it as a challenge every now and then and I try my best to win, even if it makes me pull my hair. It's a game after all, there are few ways to give gamers a challenge through programming, specially in this age. That is how I think.
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thousands of people fighting against this in all the gameplay threads all over the world, downloading yairs files(or jenkey), writing each other which version is better..
this was non existent in pes3-5 maybe till 6 days, off course there were certain scripts, but not so many and not so over the top

this is common sense basically everywhere expect some guys here in this thread and subforum lol
i dont mind momentum kicking in sometimes to make it harder either, but i totally dislike all the small little scrips that are happening in every game favouring the cpu, this is fighting against 2 teams at the same time
if u cant see/feel them well enjoy, but thats not a fact, thats just your point of view
all the others cant see things that arent there, this things exist in the code, or do u think what is yair or jenkey meaning by " remove cheat/scripting code etc."
thats real
 
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As much as I'm enjoying Fifa12 (online only) this year. I do long for a return to the game that once was fit for kings.

Really hoping PES13 is THE game but I doubt it.

Played PE6 online today and played some bellend who only wanted to use Brazil. Got the ball to Ronaldo quick and ran and smashed the ball in 8 times. What enjoyment does he get out of that?

Still, PE6 is still a good game after all this time.
 
Pes 5&6 are still the best football games ever made in my opinion. I dont mind fifa this year only due to placebos sliders which are excellent. But i just cant play pes on this generation for a sustained period of time for one reason. They are not realistic. I really hope konami get it right this year. But i think next gen maybe more reasonable.
 
Andy_1984 said:
Pes 5&6 are still the best football games ever made in my opinion. I dont mind fifa this year only due to placebos sliders which are excellent. But i just cant play pes on this generation for a sustained period of time for one reason. They are not realistic. I really hope konami get it right this year. But i think next gen maybe more reasonable.
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I think if PES 2012 was fluid, had good animations and was 8 way direction it would be better than the PS2 titles. Personally i think 360 movement has kinda broke the engine.
 
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ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue said:
thousands of people fighting against this in all the gameplay threads all over the world, downloading yairs files(or jenkey), writing each other which version is better..
this was non existent in pes3-5 maybe till 6 days, off course there were certain scripts, but not so many and not so over the top

this is common sense basically everywhere expect some guys here in this thread and subforum lol
i dont mind momentum kicking in sometimes to make it harder either, but i totally dislike all the small little scrips that are happening in every game favouring the cpu, this is fighting against 2 teams at the same time
if u cant see/feel them well enjoy, but thats not a fact, thats just your point of view
all the others cant see things that arent there, this things exist in the code, or do u think what is yair or jenkey meaning by " remove cheat/scripting code etc."
thats real
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I think everybody knows and agrees that there is some huge scripting going on in PES 2012, the disagreement is only that some think it is combateable and add to the drama, excitement of the game, while others think it is not combateable and destroys the game.

By the way I'm back playing PES 2012 after a few months with Fifa 12 only. The missing momentum/inertia-model and the too perfect ball-control finally got too much on my nerves and I think all the huge problems notwithstanding PES 2012 is a better representation of football than Fifa 12.

If only it had Fifa 12's animation/physics and ballphysics and first-touch-capabilities.

The best things of both games in one game would be bliss.
 
Lami said:
I'm quite baffled some of you just found out how to defend with R2.. And that patch 1.3 is a good one.

Where were you all this time? What was all the rambling about then? :?

I thought you all knew this and despite all of it you're still unhappy with it.
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We were just punching bags for a couple of months lol
 
ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue said:
thousands of people fighting against this in all the gameplay threads all over the world, downloading yairs files(or jenkey), writing each other which version is better..
this was non existent in pes3-5 maybe till 6 days, off course there were certain scripts, but not so many and not so over the top

this is common sense basically everywhere expect some guys here in this thread and subforum lol
i dont mind momentum kicking in sometimes to make it harder either, but i totally dislike all the small little scrips that are happening in every game favouring the cpu, this is fighting against 2 teams at the same time
if u cant see/feel them well enjoy, but thats not a fact, thats just your point of view
all the others cant see things that arent there, this things exist in the code, or do u think what is yair or jenkey meaning by " remove cheat/scripting code etc."
thats real
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We all know PES has these "momentum" scripts. I've been witnessing them since PS2. It is nothing new. I do not agree they're worse this time, the game is just harder to master imo, which makes it even worse for some. I've had many games go my way so why should I only pick on the ones that go against me? Sure it turns me into a raging bull at times (lol). Like I said these "cheating" or "momentum" scripts can be found in many games to try and favor the CPU, make it harder on us. I can't find any other explanation as to why they'd do that.

And yes it is my opinion, just like yours.
CalcioCalabrese said:
We were just punching bags for a couple of months lol
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Hehe. Well at least they're enjoying it now :P
 
True :)

Look - there are no doubt moments where it seems like the CPU score and you can't stop it. But I've seen plenty of times where I see it unfold before my very eyes and I'm about to agree with a lot of people on here, and then BAM, they miss...and again. Would be interesting to get some stats on how often the CPU capitalises on those scripts vs missing the shot.

I haven't seen much of that "out of your control" kind of stuff too much on the latest FIFA but perhaps it's just disguised well behind the gloss of it all. Either way, it would be a very welcome change if PES 2013 got rid of those super speed passing moves from the CPU and focused on exploiting the space a human player opens. Either through good passing and movement or via long passing, dependent on a team's actual tactics.

To the guy who was messing with his TV settings...and anyone else looking to get a good picture. I recommend using a "game" or "pc" mode on your TV so it turns off any other unnecessary processing and calibrate that setting on your TV with a DVD or Blu Ray from someone like Digital Video Essentials (around $30 AUS). I did mine (but on the "movie" preset and watch everything through that.

Takes some trial and error and the blue filter included is not as accurate as a professional hardware calibration solution but in my opinion, it's definitely better than eyeballing unless you know what you're doing.

After that, I believe I took down the green level a couple of clicks within PES and it made the night games more natural and the day games look good, albeit perhaps a tad undersaturated.
 
I was messing about with R2 again last night, and I'm almost convinced it has another special use. I was finding that by tapping R2 when I pushed, that it seemed to cancel out any stumble animation. It was as if it was helping me with my body balance control. Just wondered if anyone else has noticed or tried this ? It wouldn't suprise me as it does fit in with the whole R2 'Control' element.
 
It happened about 4-5 times last night with Martins. He just rode and recovered from all the challenges in much quicker fashion than I've ever seen before. And it was the first time I'd ever used R2 in that particular deliberate manner.
 
SteelHorse75 said:
Played PE6 online today and played some bellend who only wanted to use Brazil. Got the ball to Ronaldo quick and ran and smashed the ball in 8 times. What enjoyment does he get out of that?

Still, PE6 is still a good game after all this time.
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had this a few months back maybe, and found the game way too fast and unrealistic surprisingly, coz i was a big fan back then.. more than pes5

i guess this is pes2010 work, maybe + kitserver speed slow down

@lami
i rly cant imagine how u can enjoy it like that, many just cant live with it, i feel a sort of unfair thing going on everytime i play it
 
As mentioned in the video thread, I think it does have an effect. I use it to try and shove my way back onto the ball if I lose it, and I use it to try and ride a challenge by jumping over the defender's leg. I'm pretty sure that the 'slower' movement R2 offers perhaps slows down his momentum and allows him to regain control of the ball. I also barely ever get knocked off the ball unless they're tiny players like Lennon etc.

But I am having a great time using R2 to throw my own weight about the pitch a lot more. Revenge is sweet! ;)
 
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