PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[Flaw3d Genius]

@danny
yes, they tried a more sim approach with 010 and directly moved away from it with 011 and 012

Like what has been said in one of the Fifa threads recently...Sim seems to come down to personal preference on how a game is played out. For me PES 10 was a pure arcadefest and i didnt play much of 11 due to not liking it but reading the internet it seems the general census is 11 was more sim than anyother this gen. PES 12 for me strikes a good balance of Arcade/Sim and has certainly been the most fun PES game since PES 6.

Totally agree with this.

Konami should embrace what PES is (and always has been) about - a slightly quirky football sim that's approachable yet deep enough for those who put the time in. Forget the causal market. Leave that to Fifa. It's gone. Go all-out for the 'purists'. It may not be as big as the casual market but with football being the world's number one sport, Konami have still got a huge market to sell their product to.

PES sells around 5-6 million a year alot of which will be casual gamers so going solely for the hardcore/purists market would be suicide financially. Also i think alot of us old PES players dont really want a purist game we want a fun football title like PES was on PS1/2 easy to pick up and play for casual's and for folk like us plenty of depth to keep us hooked for a year.

 

[Jamezinho]

@Jamezinho

The ex pes diehard fans switched to fifa because konami screwed next gen with their first attempt, they tried fifa and its easy to come in, looks good, has less frustration moments and u dont have to put so much time into it.
You have a job, maybe kids, less time, u like the better online mode and sitting infront of a big screen enjoying a game, thats what older pes diehard fans experienced and why they moved away from pes.

A game is about joy, if a game like pes is facing u with many little issues, thats putting u away from a franchise.

But as I said earlier, a true fan of PES wouldn't leave just to chase a game with pretty visuals and less frustrating moments. That's why I questioned whether these people used to play PES because they appreciated it's attempt at a simulation of football, or if they played it solely because Fifa was shit/PES was the 'in' game.

Like you said, I don't have as much time as I used to when it comes to gaming (although I still get plenty of time these days) so I do like something that is pick up and play to an extent. I don't get much joy out of Fifa though. Once the initial 'wow' effect of the visuals and animations sinks in I'm left with a cold feeling about the game.

PES sells around 5-6 million a year alot of which will be casual gamers going solely for the hardcore market would be suicide financially.

I'm not suggesting Konami go solely for the hardcore market, more like carry on what they are doing. Most casual players will have left for Fifa already. I don't think that Konami should actively try to win them back.

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

@Flaw3d

011 lost personality with manual passing and 360 movement(was it 11 or 10 already? cant remember it tbh)
011 i cud do manual passes all over the pitch with players that cant do it in reality, and if they can do it they cant do it in that quantity

controlling a player felt less satisfying, less differences..

they introduced feint sets, the ability to do silly tricks with even the keeper is not what a sim shud be about..

@jame
well i didnt move away so i cant tell u
still cant play fifa, feels like some us sports game to me, i dont like that feel playing a football game

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I'm not suggesting Konami go solely for the hardcore market, more like carry on what they are doing. Most casual players will have left for Fifa already. I don't think that Konami should actively try to win them back.

Yeah i agree there, i'd hate to see them go more casual as with PES 2012 they are finally going in the right direction. One thing Adam has been talking about is that Konami are toying with the idea's of bar assistance for everything in the game rather than just passing.....i really hope this doesnt come to fruition as it's yet another step towards being more Fifa'ish, the good thing about PES control is it's a universal system and the game is designed around it while EA are having to make 3 different games in the 1 (manual, semi, sssisted) which leaves it good at all 3 but master of none

@Flaw3d

011 lost personality with manual passing and 360 movement(was it 11 or 10 already? cant remember it tbh)
011 i cud do manual passes all over the pitch with players that cant do it in reality, and if they can do it they cant do it in that quantity

controlling a player felt less satisfying, less differences..

they introduced feint sets, the ability to do silly tricks with even the keeper is not what a sim shud be about..

I get ya, Out of interest what assistance do you play 12 on? It seems for me 0 assistance is roughly like Semi on Fifa? Which i guess you lose some individuality but it also gives you a bit of freedom to do stuff that was not possible before?

 

[cubby]

It depends on how you gauge a 'good' game. It's very accessible, has flawless presentation, and has very aesthetically pleasing animations. It ticks every box for the average football fan, and the fact you get people who don't even like football playing it, is testament to its success. In that respect, you can see why it's lauded in the media.

However, like you said, to us goons that look beneath the surface it just isn't deep enough. Unfortunately us lot only consist of a very small proportion of the market. I think the success of PES in the past was just a by-product of FIFA being so atrocious that even the casual couldn't stomach it. EA are onto a winner here though sadly. It's just a case of tweaking the formula each year from now on. This is why Konami's efforts to attract the arcade audience makes absolutely no sense. If they realised their niche and focused on recreating a sim, there should be enough of a hardcore to make it a profitable en devour.

You think FIFA has flawless presentation? It is pretty awful to me. Same boring setup for years. It does nothing to make you feel like its a match day. It's a joke compared to some of the top sports games in this area, like the 2K games or MLB The Show. PES is awful as well, although playing on the PC helps that a bit. Both titles need big upgrades in this areas.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

I wouldn't call it flawless either but I can see where Danny is coming from. Although the impact engine still spits out some funny scenes and the commentary doesn't always line up with the action.

As much as the graphics aren't that sharp on the wide angles, I still think the lighting (except for night games this year) is a lot better on PES. The stadiums also feel different and you actually get to see more than just the pitch. FIFA stadiums feel a bit generic to me, mainly because you don't see much of them.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I give Fifa a go pretty much every year, and every year the result is the same. To be fair, Fifa 12 is a good game. It's very solid, playable and technically impressive. The trouble is the gameplay is desperately repetitive, dull and uneventful. I feel no emotion when playing it, no highs or lows. PES, while frustrating and broken in places, still stirs up some emotions in me when I play it.

Until Fifa can do the same it's always going to be second best, no matter how good it looks or plays.

Yeah I tend to agree, since coming back to PES2012 I'm really loving the ball physics and first touch system over FIFA. I'm also using the new control to make a player off the ball do a forward run so that I can carry the ball into the space left behind by the CPU defender who's tracking the run. It feels more alive than FIFA in terms of off the ball running, and for all it's faults ts that which makes it addictive and FIFA more emotionless, for me anyways.

I also don't know if it's patch 1.03, but honestly, it feels virtually the same as demo 2. I swapped between the two and really didn't notice any difference other than on 1.03, keepers are better, and some of the dodgy defensive errors I've complained about so far haven't happened. The AI still parks the bus but not in any degree that it used to for sure. I feel like I've got more time on the ball.

So far, so good, though I've only played exhibition matches and have a lot of assists on, but I'm getting used to defending and using super cancel with my attacker on lofted through balls is working a treat. In fact, compared to first time round with this game, somehow the game feels more weighty, player individuality seems better than I remembered, and I haven't been owned by a 90th minute goal yet. In fact, admittedly playing as Barcelona on Professional, i actually came back to win 2-1 in the last ten minutes. Weird.

 

[henrys hand]

But as I said earlier, a true fan of PES wouldn't leave just to chase a game with pretty visuals and less frustrating moments. That's why I questioned whether these people used to play PES because they appreciated it's attempt at a simulation of football, or if they played it solely because Fifa was shit/PES was the 'in' game.

I played PES on PS2 and xbox1 for years and loved it to death, especially PES 5. And at that time when it came out it truly was an attempt at simulation compared to what EA was doing with Fifa.

But when you play PES 5 today you will see it's hardly a simulation at all, the current games of PES 2012 and Fifa 12 are much more of simulation of football.

Nonetheless PES 5 has a certain magic, that neither of the current games could recapture and last night I threw in PES 5 for xbox1 into my xbox360 to find out what exactly made PES 5 so magical. I played it straight for three hours on top-player and it was a hell of a fun. Imho these are the things that worked together to create the magic:

1. The game is fast, passing is fast, the players are fast. To be exact the players have very good acceleration that makes me always feel in control of the player and reactive. It also makes you feel the power and skill of the player under control.

2. The pressure is intense. The opponents are always nearby and because of the acceleration/reactiveness it's a tight game, you have to pass the ball around to a player who is free to get that extra-time to plan the next move or you have to dribble very good to gain that space.

3. The ball is free and needs to be controlled. Hitting a hard pass to another player who runs to the ball from the opposite direction leads to a bouncing of the ball away from the receiving player and the opponent gets the time to jump between the ball and the player.

4. The wide-camera shows only part of the pitch, less than half of the pitch, and pans up and down and right to left when necessary. As unimportant as this may seem, this adds to the feeling.

5. The game is on rails and helps along to get the ball to the right player at the right time. For example I was on the right side of the pitch at the beginning of the last third of the pitch and another player of mine stood with one defender observing him near the goal-area. I thought wouldn't a nice cross to him be a good opportunity. The game thought obviously the same, cause the moment I pressed the cross-button, the game did everything to help create that nice goal:
I just pressed the button and never expected the ball to arrive well enough cause I was under pressure, but the assisting came into full effect creating the perfect trajectory. And what the other player in my team did to help along is even more incredible, all that while the ball was in the air! He went out of his way to the one defender who observed him and pushed him so that he would get into a stumble-animation, granting him the space and time to concentrate on the ball in the air, he jumped perfectly and headed it perfectly into the net. All I did was to press the shoot-button when the ball was near his head. The referee saw of course nothing of the pushing away.

6. There is a nice balance between attack and defense, nothing is overpowered and I guess that is the result of the players being reactive.

Verdict: PES 5 is a brilliant game but by today's standards not a simulation, it's an arcade-simulation-hybrid that sums up the drama and action of 90-minutes football in a condensed time of 20 minutes. In that it succeeds more than PES 2012 and Fifa 12. Because of the speed and acceleration there is a lot more going on in a single match, and combined with the free ball, there is more unpredictability.

And yet the current games offer new aspects, like manual passing, shooting... and less scripting/assisting, and thanks to 360-degree-movement more freedom on the pitch.

Wouldn't it be great to somehow mix these two worlds to create the ultimate experience?

Thanks to Fifa 12's sliders this is possible and I spent two additional hours last night to get Fifa 12 to feel and look and play like PES 5 but with the modern improvements of 16:9-HD-picture and 360-movement and manual passing/shooting.

It was a success, Fifa 12 with my settings plays now for 90% like PES 5 and it's a thrilling hell of a fun. I'll post the settings in the Fifa-sections for anyone to try them out. Here's the link:

http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2472899&postcount=726

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Music to my ears.

Zero Assistance (stick with it, and you'll never mis-place a pass once mastered) Professional Level and 15 minutes games. No stat tweaks and 1.03 and that's all you'll ever need. In my opinion.

Right Jim i need your help....Moved up to Pro and 15 mins and winning most games but the problem i have seems to be having is the computer can just ghost by me as if im not there... players like Carrick turn into Messi and can beat 4 or 5 of my guys so i badly need help on the defending part to stop them.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Yeah I wouldn't mind some advice in this area, though I'm not finding it too bad so far (though I am only playing friendlies so far).

My main tactics so far are to use the player you're controlling to jockey and hold up the CPU attacker, then bring in a second defender using double press to make a challenge while I'm trying to limit passing lanes. Or, if I can't do that, I'm getting some joy with making my defender jockey by pressing R2, then basically 'guiding' him into the attacker. He'll automatically put his foot out to make a challenge. It seems to treat this method as a more considered tackle - using the method they teach you in the tutorials just sees the attacker waltz past you like you're not there, which is odd.

 

[zlac]

Defense Bible - by Blanco
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=67262

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Thanks so much for posting that link, I had no idea anyone had written such a tutorial. No wonder my players have previously let the opposition walk through them. I suppose using R2 to jockey works when you then get close and tap R2 again to try and win the ball - that sounds really intuitive. I'll give this a go later.

I also didn't know you could 'shove' players like the CPU does to you with R2?!

 

[curdstar]

Good set of tips those.

What I tend to do now is play off-ball defence near exclusively. Works very well, especially if you set Auto Slide to hard and clear to on, with the additional benefit being that the friendly team mate AI can not ony do a decent job in winning the ball back but it also seems to hold-up COM moves seeing the COM now play a bit more football.

I recommend re-mapping Super Cancel to L2 + R2 as well. Switch sprint to R2 and Special Controls to L2, then shift manual modifier to R1. Not only does this make Super Cancel better mapped but it also maps Speed Burst to R2 + L2 as well and it improves my dribbling no ends.

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

@Flaw3d

not playing 012, when i tried to get a little something joy out of it i playd with 0 ass. or 1 bar ass., switched back n forth

dont like the game at all

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Right Jim i need your help....Moved up to Pro and 15 mins and winning most games but the problem i have seems to be having is the computer can just ghost by me as if im not there... players like Carrick turn into Messi and can beat 4 or 5 of my guys so i badly need help on the defending part to stop them.

It looks like Zlac beat me to it, but yeah R2 and X to contain/jockey with relevant distance is brilliant. If the CPU gets too close, your defender will auto-tackle as he sticks his foot in. Alternatively, release R2 and let X put the foot in. Also, try just using R2 and retreat (away on stick/pad) to jockey/track with no relevant distance.

Use Cursor Switch to let your CPU Ai team-mate jockey and contain without or without Secondary press. This lets you cover the space the CPU may be looking to pass towards. Cutting out options like this stops the CPU trying the get the ball forward as quick as possible. By simply holding X to pressure, your risking getting skinned and also promoting more direct play from the CPU Ai.

And Alan, Auto-Tackle ? Hang your head in shame..........

 

[cubby]

I miss the foul system of PES5. Hopefully this year there will be a foul slider to please everyone. I can kind of achieve this a bit by raising the global attribute for players, but it isn't on the PES5 level.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Cheers guys, Gonnae get on it later.

 

[Chimps-with-quiffs]

I'm starting to wonder this. At first I thought his gameplay improvements were great. I thought that by increasing the tactics of all the sides they would pass the ball about a bit more and there would be less scripting etc. I think it affected the game somewhat if I'm honest. I reformatted the PS3 last week, and then installed GTM Patch for the stadia and pitches etc but no gameplay alteration, and I'm really enjoying it again on Superstar. Perhaps the stats are so sensitive they are't supposed to be altered to any degree?

Other than making players more like they were in real life and equalling out the physical stats which are different from small to big clubs in the default game, one of the main changes I did was increase teamwork and tenacity to make them pass the ball around, attack better and want to tackle you more. The reasoning behind this was the amount of people who consistantly told me to make the game harder.

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

off course the stats are sensible, its konami
they tweak the whole system for weeks im sure just to get an acceptable(not in our way off course, just to make it playable i guess) balance in the game , because the base engine suxx so hard

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

So having checked out the defending tutorial I've found it works wonders. I mainly seem able to tackle by only using R2 and tapping it repeatedly when nearby, seems to make players put a foot out and be more accurate with the tackle.

I also tried tapping R2 when pushing into an attacker, and found it really works. It made the CPU attacker do this;

YouTube - R2 Defending

Revenge is sweet, the number of times in PES I've been shoved off the ball and stumble, now I can do it back!

I'm loving the game so far, I'd previously sold the game before patch 1.03 came out, but I think it's great. The AI attacks you a lot more, you have more time on the ball, keepers seem great, the issue with late goals has actually been in reverse so far, I'm the one pinching games right in the 90th minute.

Also, one issue, graphically speaking, that I had before was particularly with night matches. I thought they looked awful, with bold colours and shadows that made it look ugly. Well, I've fixed that completely. I went into the settings and altered the screen to Red -1, Green 0, Blue +2. Brightness +4. I then went to my TV settings, and while this is different with every TV, personally, I removed all dynamic contrast, made default black levels much lighter, basically anything that makes darker areas look dark, I made lighter. I then increased my TV's sharpeness a lot, and decreased the colour on my TV by quite a lot too. The colours and shadows now look much more realistic, less harsh on the eye, and IMO looks miles better. It's really improved things on that front too.

 

[Chimps-with-quiffs]

So having checked out the defending tutorial I've found it works wonders. I mainly seem able to tackle by only using R2 and tapping it repeatedly when nearby, seems to make players put a foot out and be more accurate with the tackle.

I also tried tapping R2 when pushing into an attacker, and found it really works. It made the CPU attacker do this;

YouTube - R2 Defending

Revenge is sweet, the number of times in PES I've been shoved off the ball and stumble, now I can do it back!

I'm loving the game so far, I'd previously sold the game before patch 1.03 came out, but I think it's great. The AI attacks you a lot more, you have more time on the ball, keepers seem great, the issue with late goals has actually been in reverse so far, I'm the one pinching games right in the 90th minute.

Also, one issue, graphically speaking, that I had before was particularly with night matches. I thought they looked awful, with bold colours and shadows that made it look ugly. Well, I've fixed that completely. I went into the settings and altered the screen to Red -1, Green 0, Blue +2. Brightness +4. I then went to my TV settings, and while this is different with every TV, personally, I removed all dynamic contrast, made default black levels much lighter, basically anything that makes darker areas look dark, I made lighter. I then increased my TV's sharpeness a lot, and decreased the colour on my TV by quite a lot too. The colours and shadows now look much more realistic, less harsh on the eye, and IMO looks miles better. It's really improved things on that front too.

I spent ages trying to get games to look decent at night on two tv's. Tried every setting, but I just couldn't get this years game to look good at night on half the stadiums. That is why I bought it for the pc after spending months of editing the ps3. I couldn't play the master league on the ps3 because how I just felt I was putting up with twenty minutes of night games to play a game in the day time. I wish konami would look at what pitches people have created for the pc

 

[dannyfc2]

I've always found Supercancel to be the most effective form of defending, right from about PES3.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

So having checked out the defending tutorial I've found it works wonders. I mainly seem able to tackle by only using R2 and tapping it repeatedly when nearby, seems to make players put a foot out and be more accurate with the tackle.

I also tried tapping R2 when pushing into an attacker, and found it really works. It made the CPU attacker do this;

YouTube - R2 Defending

Revenge is sweet, the number of times in PES I've been shoved off the ball and stumble, now I can do it back!

I'm loving the game so far, I'd previously sold the game before patch 1.03 came out, but I think it's great. The AI attacks you a lot more, you have more time on the ball, keepers seem great, the issue with late goals has actually been in reverse so far, I'm the one pinching games right in the 90th minute.

Also, one issue, graphically speaking, that I had before was particularly with night matches. I thought they looked awful, with bold colours and shadows that made it look ugly. Well, I've fixed that completely. I went into the settings and altered the screen to Red -1, Green 0, Blue +2. Brightness +4. I then went to my TV settings, and while this is different with every TV, personally, I removed all dynamic contrast, made default black levels much lighter, basically anything that makes darker areas look dark, I made lighter. I then increased my TV's sharpeness a lot, and decreased the colour on my TV by quite a lot too. The colours and shadows now look much more realistic, less harsh on the eye, and IMO looks miles better. It's really improved things on that front too.

Glad your enjoying it as much as i am, going to check out your night settings as for me night matches look really awful but doesn't it affect the great looking day matches or do they look good as well?

Also im sure 1 stadium looks really good at night? Someone posted a video up and it looked great anyone know what stadium it is?

 

[Lami]

I'm quite baffled some of you just found out how to defend with R2.. And that patch 1.3 is a good one.

Where were you all this time? What was all the rambling about then?

I thought you all knew this and despite all of it you're still unhappy with it.

 

[AntrAcsA]

Hmm, konami now work something on his PES 2013 site :
http://www.konami-pes2013.com/
They upload some stuff there
And some "smart" guys аre stolen original domein name of pes2013.com to make money from trafic its phatetic ...

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR , Konami will change the name of the game !? Or they are just lasy and stupid to preserve domein names of they future games ...

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I'm quite baffled some of you just found out how to defend with R2.. And that patch 1.3 is a good one.

Where were you all this time? What was all the rambling about then?

I thought you all knew this and despite all of it you're still unhappy with it.

Well I sold the game back in November way before patch 1.03 was released, and I'm not sure Konami even advertise using R2 to tackle - don't their tutorial videos tell you to use R2 + X to jockey then release R2 to move in for a tackle using X? This method barely even works. I tried using R2 only to put a tackle in and it works wonders. Really strange Konami don't tell people this because it's led to a lot of people being frustrated!

 

[ccshopland]

I'm quite baffled some of you just found out how to defend with R2.. And that patch 1.3 is a good one.

Where were you all this time? What was all the rambling about then?

I thought you all knew this and despite all of it you're still unhappy with it.

I agree with this Lam lol.

I mean it took me ages to 'get' the game this year, I mean hundreds of demo games. But once I starting mastering the R2+x contain and tackle function, I was away. At least it gives you the base for sound defence. But this is only 50% of the art of defending this year. The other half is when to press hard and fast, when to contain and when to drop right back and leave the CPU literally run at you until you get numbers back.

I've had my ups and downs with the game this year. Firstly I thought the demos were excellent (PS3), then the main game. Only the keepers were broken. Then I liked retail but didn't like patches 1.01 and 1.02. Then I loved 1.03, and I even thought Chimps editing was excellent. But then I lost a little love then. It was at this time I started playing PES and FIFA concurrently, and I think for me anyway, this cannot be done. PES is just too deep, too hard and required utmost concentration to keep getting results on Superstar.

I then switched to the PC and after a thousand or so patches, just could not find the right balance. Last week I re-formatted the PS3, installed GTM patch and 1.03, and I am absolutely loving it again. I'm back on Superstar level, and the matches are so, so intense. I think the stats are so sensitive this year that any alterations has a drastic effect on gameplay balance down the line. I've now ditched the PC journey and am back solely loving my PS3.

I've had my rants about 1.03, in terms of scripting and at times I thought the game broken, but like I say I think stats edits just magnified scripting to a different level. I've been harsh at times because I love the game so much (apologies to Curdstar and Adam in part for some rants, even though the WENB forums are not for me). That doesn't stop me thinking that this is one of the best representations of football ever, in terms of absolutely everything.

To get the best out of PES this last two weeks I've had a complete attitude re-adjustment.

1) I was previously going into games as Liverpool thinking I should be a top 3/4 team on the game. I've completely changed my approach now just by looking at the table IRL and seeing where Liverpool are now with the team. I was thinking that I should be going in as favourites in every match, when this isn't so. EVERY TEAM ON PES, is capable of beating you. What gives me the right for example, to face say Wolves and think it's going to be an easy game? They (the CPU) want to win as much as me, and on their day even lowly sides have players that can hurt you and play some nice football

2) Home and away. I have appreciated that this is important this year. I always look to play more cautiously away from home against everybody at least for the first 60 minutes. If I feel the game is going my way then I can up the attacking a notch or two.

3) Study the tactics. My best result this year was a 4-0 demolishing of Arsenal, after I had studied the tactics screen for a good ten to 15 minutes. I saw their strengths, stalled then with workers in midfield and then hit them wide. Tactically, I love this game. You also have to know when to sacrifice star players for a better team shape against certain teams.

4) Silly formations and over-committal. Now, I've never been a gung ho type of player, BUT, if you play an attacking formation, and so to do the CPU, then expect carnage at both ends. Now, I almost always play with three central midfielders, and if it means I lose a bit of creativity with a star player, I'd have the work rate defensive guys every day of the week. I've learned the hard way, that the best XI isn't always the most effective XI.

Over committal - by this I mean too much use of the one-two trigger run. This can be brutally exploited by the CPU especially if you lose possession with many people in front of the ball, they will dice you with swift effectiveness. So use the 1-2 trigger run sparingly on counter attacks, or when you need that bit of extra penetration in and around the box, if you play a long drawn possession game, and you start committing your midfielders ahead of the ball, then DO NOT lose possession cheaply.

5) And even if you apply ALL of the above, there is still the 50% of football that is chance and luck. That's football.

I think a lot of people are starting to really get to grips with the game this last month or so, which is a testament to the longevity of the game, do you think guys? Anyway, at this moment in time, I don't think I've ever been happier playing a PES game, and that's with the legend games of yesteryear taken into consideration. For the first time in a long time, I am starting to become excited for PES 2013!

 

[Ameppe]

It's good that many people are learning more and more to defend but there clearly is a lot wrong with Pes 2012 defensive system.
The fact that you have to play intensely for three-four months to learn how to defend is awful, to be honest.
I agree that the game must be deep and difficult to master, but it was never supposed to be frustrating.

The good old Pes were great because even if they were very deep, they were also easy to play, both in defence and attack, in their fundamentals. I don't know if i'm explaining it well, but

it should not be so difficult to learn how to tackle when opposing CPU players are attacking you, especially since even CPU players with 70 overall can dribble through your defenders like Messi does on his best days.

I mean, it's realistic that you have to learn how to defend against agile players like Messi, Lavezzi, C.Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, etc... but it's absolutely unrealistic you have to be careful even when someone like Chievo's Moscardelli is on red form arrow.
Absolutely unrealistic, i repeat.

What's more, defensive individuality is completely lost, since even if you have Maldini as defender against Moscardelli, he still can dribble Maldini so easily...
Many defensive cards have been removed, every defender is in danger when CPU decides to go through your players, there is no difference at all between defending with top class defenders or with an average defender. Tell me, where is our dear Pes individuality? Where is the balance between attacking and defence?

I think one should be blind to not see that Pes 2012 is completely unbalanced and it advantages attacking gameplay, while Pes 2011 advantaged (catch-up bug?) defence.
The only case when defence is advantaged is when you have to play against the parking the bus teams, but that is also unrealistic.

You can notice the unbalanced gameplay in CPUvsCPU matches too, far too many 5-2, 6-3, 3-3 results in every Master League fixture.

I think Konami learned this and will give at least a balanced game, it's too obvious to not notice it, and i guess Seabass' words "next game will be different" mean they will fix this mess. Or, at least, i hope so.

 

[Lons]

It's good that many people are learning more and more to defend but there clearly is a lot wrong with Pes 2012 defensive system.
The fact that you have to play intensely for three-four months to learn how to defend is awful, to be honest.
I agree that the game must be deep and difficult to master, but it was never supposed to be frustrating.

The good old Pes were great because even if they were very deep, they were also easy to play, both in defence and attack, in their fundamentals. I don't know if i'm explaining it well, but

it should not be so difficult to learn how to tackle when opposing CPU players are attacking you, especially since even CPU players with 70 overall can dribble through your defenders like Messi does on his best days.

I mean, it's realistic that you have to learn how to defend against agile players like Messi, Lavezzi, C.Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, etc... but it's absolutely unrealistic you have to be careful even when someone like Chievo's Moscardelli is on red form arrow.
Absolutely unrealistic, i repeat.

What's more, defensive individuality is completely lost, since even if you have Maldini as defender against Moscardelli, he still can dribble Maldini so easily...
Many defensive cards have been removed, every defender is in danger when CPU decides to go through your players, there is no difference at all between defending with top class defenders or with an average defender. Tell me, where is our dear Pes individuality? Where is the balance between attacking and defence?

I think one should be blind to not see that Pes 2012 is completely unbalanced and it advantages attacking gameplay, while Pes 2011 advantaged (catch-up bug?) defence.
The only case when defence is advantaged is when you have to play against the parking the bus teams, but that is also unrealistic.

You can notice the unbalanced gameplay in CPUvsCPU matches too, far too many 5-2, 6-3, 3-3 results in every Master League fixture.

I think Konami learned this and will give at least a balanced game, it's too obvious to not notice it, and i guess Seabass' words "next game will be different" mean they will fix this mess. Or, at least, i hope so.

Bigol Seabass said a lot of things about Pes some time ago but reality was different. Remember what he said about Pes 2009? Totally different game created form scratch. We have to relax, wait and look how Pes 2013 will move on the pitch.

 

[Ameppe]

I don't expect Pes 2013 to be a revolution, i simply expect it to be much more balanced than it is now, that's all.