PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

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Someone posted this today in yair's gameplay topic, clip of WE 2012 Online (Korean version, supposedly) ... something about ball physics being good and stuff ...

YouTube - WInning Eleven Online - Gameplay HD - part 1

Yet another Barca vs. Barca ****fest, but that's not the reason why I'm reposting it here. Neither is ball physics. What actually caught my eye were those little thingies above players' heads ... dual stamina system??? Or am I delusional?
 
zlac said:
Someone posted this today in yair's gameplay topic, clip of WE 2012 Online (Korean version, supposedly) ... something about ball physics being good and stuff ...

YouTube - WInning Eleven Online - Gameplay HD - part 1

Yet another Barca vs. Barca ****fest, but that's not the reason why I'm reposting it here. Neither is ball physics. What actually caught my eye were those little thingies above players' heads ... dual stamina system??? Or am I delusional?
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Im i imagine it or are the nets much better?
 
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curdstar said:
What I am hoping is that what we will see is more in they way of variety as to how players can control and take balls out of the air. Maybe what we are getting is something that allows for players to leap and chest the ball either basically or on the move and into space, or perhaps players blessed with superb technique can receive a lofted pass by sitting it up for themselves via a cushioned touch...or two. Obviously, if this was to be the case then the defensive side of the game would need to be able to offer a viable counter but maybe with more variety it means air balls will have more in the way of how they are contested.
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Been saying this since PES5 it needs a jump button. Imagine the complexity it would add to the game. Jumping to control or pressing shoot to head it. Of course still stat based with the players with better jump getting higher and body positioning better.
 
Some Italians have unearthed a company that works for Konami regarding PES...The amazing Messi animation clip for the intro of PES 2012 was actually done by a German company rather than Seabass & Co

https://twitter.com/#!/famefabrik

Lets hope Konami use them/their animations a hell of alot more in PES 2013 rather than just for an intro.

edit: Seems the 3d Messi vid im thinking of was PES 2011

YouTube - PES 2011 Teaser Trailer

Any idea what the PES 2012 Messi 3d clip is? Or has the company got their year wrong?
 
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I must be bonkers, I complain about the game and sell it now I've picked it up again for a tenner. I'd been really enjoying demo 2 so thought bugger it, I need my PES fix again. I am now actually playing 2010, 2011 and 2012 at the same time!

I've really enjoyed FIFA12 this year but there is just something I can't put my finger on, something that makes me play then go large periods of time without ever going back to it. I've lost all enthusiasm for it.

I've been actually enjoying PES2012 again, it's my first time on patch 1.3 and it seems okay so far. If I run into problems though I ain't gonna moan because I've already experienced the game and still bought it again. But coming back to it, I'm really liking the pace and ball physics on zero speed. It ran too fast on my old TV, so why it's perfect on this one I don't know. But I just prefer the ball and player physics to FIFA, I think it's that which keeps me coming back. I just don't get the same satisfaction as I do if I curl one onto the corner using an R2 finish ...
 
zlac said:
Someone posted this today in yair's gameplay topic, clip of WE 2012 Online (Korean version, supposedly) ... something about ball physics being good and stuff ...

YouTube - WInning Eleven Online - Gameplay HD - part 1

Yet another Barca vs. Barca ****fest, but that's not the reason why I'm reposting it here. Neither is ball physics. What actually caught my eye were those little thingies above players' heads ... dual stamina system??? Or am I delusional?
Click to expand...

Looks like the Wii version if I'm not mistaken.
 
LTFC said:
I must be bonkers, I complain about the game and sell it now I've picked it up again for a tenner. I'd been really enjoying demo 2 so thought bugger it, I need my PES fix again. I am now actually playing 2010, 2011 and 2012 at the same time!

I've really enjoyed FIFA12 this year but there is just something I can't put my finger on, something that makes me play then go large periods of time without ever going back to it. I've lost all enthusiasm for it.

I've been actually enjoying PES2012 again, it's my first time on patch 1.3 and it seems okay so far. If I run into problems though I ain't gonna moan because I've already experienced the game and still bought it again. But coming back to it, I'm really liking the pace and ball physics on zero speed. It ran too fast on my old TV, so why it's perfect on this one I don't know. But I just prefer the ball and player physics to FIFA, I think it's that which keeps me coming back. I just don't get the same satisfaction as I do if I curl one onto the corner using an R2 finish ...
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Haha i done the exact same after enjoying Demo 2 and bought it for the 4th time and went back to the 360 version, My game arrived this morning and had two games...it really feels much better than the PS3 version which leaves me wondering if it was more Chimps gameplay patches i didnt like rather than the game itself?


zeemeister said:
Messi is now fifas cover star 2011 was his last
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Oh aye, seems odd that no one knew the PES 2011 intro/animations was not Konami's work.
 
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Flaw3d Genius said:
Haha i done the exact same after enjoying Demo 2 and bought it for the 4th time and went back to the 360 version, My game arrived this morning and had two games...it really feels much better than the PS3 version which leaves me wondering if it was more Chimps gameplay patches i didnt like rather than the game itself?




Oh aye, seems odd that no one knew the PES 2011 intro/animations was not Konami's work.
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I'm starting to wonder this. At first I thought his gameplay improvements were great. I thought that by increasing the tactics of all the sides they would pass the ball about a bit more and there would be less scripting etc. I think it affected the game somewhat if I'm honest. I reformatted the PS3 last week, and then installed GTM Patch for the stadia and pitches etc but no gameplay alteration, and I'm really enjoying it again on Superstar. Perhaps the stats are so sensitive they are't supposed to be altered to any degree?
 
ccshopland said:
I'm starting to wonder this. At first I thought his gameplay improvements were great. I thought that by increasing the tactics of all the sides they would pass the ball about a bit more and there would be less scripting etc. I think it affected the game somewhat if I'm honest. I reformatted the PS3 last week, and then installed GTM Patch for the stadia and pitches etc but no gameplay alteration, and I'm really enjoying it again on Superstar. Perhaps the stats are so sensitive they are't supposed to be altered to any degree?
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GTM patch is what I have used since the day after I got the game on the first day i used a stats edited version and the game felt mental I didn't think it was enjoyable with the teams almost super powered.
since the transfer update on the GTM files I have played 2 and a half years of ML (as well as a fair few other tries on the older set) the games are much fairer and really are enjoyable to be a part of, there have been the usual games here and there with the old PES scripting, but it's to be expected and just adds to the challenge of ML as a whole to be honest.

I don't remember exact numbers but as an example on the stats edited game I played Swansea as Norwich, got railroaded something like 6-0 with them playing through me like I wasn't there, on the un-edited game I played and lost 2-1 they still played football like pros but I at least felt like i could offer a challenge to them.

ML needs player trade deals again though, and I saw a post about regens I agree that PES' idea of bringing them back as themselves is a bit poor and needs improving..
For this PES I have toyed with the idea of editing regens appearances and names out of ML and make them a different player.. Seems a bit quick fix, but may work and give it a more realistic feel, haven't tried by the way.. Just an idea
 
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I just can´t touch the retail version anymore. Demo 2 is my PES fix, i must admit,( even if i´m enjoying fifa´s manager mode slided up)... it is by miles the best representation of modern football. Everything feels in its right place in Demo 2, tactics, physics, overall pace. Very good indeed, so much that whenever i forget and try the full game i just wanna slide the dvd into some Konami ass and make him/her puke afterwards...Just can´t cope with the disappointment...
 
Been playing Exhibition matches for the past 3 hours....Game is amazing! Feels nothing like the PS3 game i had been playing for months. My biggest gripe was the shooting....Im loving the shooting in 1.03 on the 360 with the ball going in the general direction that i want basically all the time unless the players body position is wrong or under pressure.

Started playing zero assistance and on regular..was struggling to score in my first 3 games and now my last 2 games have been 5-2 and 7-1 to me...time to move up a level.

LOVING IT!
 
Flaw3d Genius said:
Been playing Exhibition matches for the past 3 hours....Game is amazing! Feels nothing like the PS3 game i had been playing for months. My biggest gripe was the shooting....Im loving the shooting in 1.03 on the 360 with the ball going in the general direction that i want basically all the time unless the players body position is wrong or under pressure.

Started playing zero assistance and on regular..was struggling to score in my first 3 games and now my last 2 games have been 5-2 and 7-1 to me...time to move up a level.

LOVING IT!
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Music to my ears. :)

Zero Assistance (stick with it, and you'll never mis-place a pass once mastered) Professional Level and 15 minutes games. No stat tweaks and 1.03 and that's all you'll ever need. In my opinion. ;)
 
I'm still a big fan of Chimps work to be honest - I just feel he manages to eek that little more regards a sense of weight to movement with his tweaks and the balance just feels right.

I might very well give the game a bash on vanilla settings on another profile just to out of curiosity though.

Have to say, the good has been far outweighing the bad in the game for me of late. Some AI behaviour tweaks, further progression of the animation/physics systems in place and of course some fine tuning/further innovation regards some mechanics and while PES2013 wouldn't prove to be a technical juggernaut, it could well prove to be a gameplay one.

Oh, and the side-step animation being set fire to wouldn't go amiss.
 
zeemeister said:
Been saying this since PES5 it needs a jump button. Imagine the complexity it would add to the game. Jumping to control or pressing shoot to head it. Of course still stat based with the players with better jump getting higher and body positioning better.
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Yep, what I am hoping for is that the whispered R2 first touch mechanics allow for some contextual agility and finesse in controlling the ball which would of course include jumping to meet an ''air-ball'' with the chest or even their head.

The other thing which no footy game has really nailed down or fully explored is how players use all parts of their anatomy to perform some fairly unorthodox but pleasing moments of control/skill. For instance, has any footy game really shown players performing a controlling touch with their head? I know both FIFA and PES have had players knock the ball using their head (possibly more in PES in all honesty, at least classic PES) but I don't recall any game showing players taking a confident controlling touch with their head from a stationary position.

I do think implementation of such variety to players first touch could also see more in the way of what I would call ''finesse defending''.
 
LTFC said:
I've really enjoyed FIFA12 this year but there is just something I can't put my finger on, something that makes me play then go large periods of time without ever going back to it. I've lost all enthusiasm for it.
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I give Fifa a go pretty much every year, and every year the result is the same. To be fair, Fifa 12 is a good game. It's very solid, playable and technically impressive. The trouble is the gameplay is desperately repetitive, dull and uneventful. I feel no emotion when playing it, no highs or lows. PES, while frustrating and broken in places, still stirs up some emotions in me when I play it.

Until Fifa can do the same it's always going to be second best, no matter how good it looks or plays.
 
Jamezinho said:
I give Fifa a go pretty much every year, and every year the result is the same. To be fair, Fifa 12 is a good game. It's very solid, playable and technically impressive. The trouble is the gameplay is desperately repetitive, dull and uneventful. I feel no emotion when playing it, no highs or lows. PES, while frustrating and broken in places, still stirs up some emotions in me when I play it.

Until Fifa can do the same it's always going to be second best, no matter how good it looks or plays.
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Couldn't have put it better myself. FIFA will always be given a run out and in FIFA09 they served up a game which came closest to PES so far as eating up a fair number of months playing time goes. Since then, I feel EA have made obvious technical advancements but at the expense of the actual gameplay serving up anything like that solidity that was found in FIFA09. WC2010 was a decent ''themed'' kick about but apart from that FIFA's post FIFA09 have failed to hook me in.

There are lots of reasons I still prefer PES, many of which are shared with others and are well documented. Two things that stand out for me though :

- Even though PES2012's COM AI is flawed in this respect, PES just seems to ''get'' the ebb & flow of the real sport right or more right than FIFA - It is a game which understands midfield play better. In PES it is the creative zone where as in FIFA it always strikes me as an area where the devs believe you would want to be getting out of as quickly as possible. Many say this is them producing a wonderful interpretation of EPL/British football but I feel that is being disingenuous towards British football. Simply look at how Norwich played against Spurs on Monday to see that even mid-table EPL sides don't look to rush through or by pass midfield. I also think that teammate AI and general off-the-ball mmovement, although not perfect, is more alive in PES.

- Ironically, for all that there are more people playing FIFA and that the game does offer more community friendly features, PES still for me has a greater sense of community overall. We are all posting and discussing the game year in, year out for a reason and although the recent past has given birth to more frustration in the discussion we still always come back to see what is happening.
 
curdstar said:
Ironically, for all that there are more people playing FIFA and that the game does offer more community friendly features, PES still for me has a greater sense of community overall. We are all posting and discussing the game year in, year out for a reason and although the recent past has given birth to more frustration in the discussion we still always come back to see what is happening.
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Oh yeah, definitely. PES has always had the kind of cult-like following that most games just don't have. While many have dropped away over the years, the hardcore are still here and still prepared to stick with the game even though the series has fallen from grace somewhat. You only have to look at the editing section here or on any other PES forum to see how active the modding community still is. Fans are prepared to put countless hours in creating option files, patches, new stadia etc...just to try and get the best they can from PES. Konami are lucky to have this kind of fanbase really.

As for Fifa - it does a fantastic job of replicating football from a visual level. Or should that be 'televisual' level as it tries to emulate the experience of watching a match on Sky Sports in my opinion. It looks like football from afar but scratch the surface and very little lies beneath.

What bugs me the most is the collective bumming of Fifa in the games media. I listen to many gaming podcasts and I really do wonder what some of these ex-PES die-hards see in Fifa to talk so highly of it. Were they just populists jumping on PES back in the day because it was the game the cool kids played? Is that the reason they play Fifa these days, because that's the popular thing to do? Sure, Fifa has some great modes, especially online, but as a football experience it's so shallow. Did these guys appreciate PES for the right reasons in the first place? It really saddens me to hear journalists and podcasters talking so disparagingly about PES these days, as if it has nothing to offer at all.

For me, PES is the purist's choice. It's the game for people who appreciate the many facets and intricacies of the sport. I can't see that changing any time soon and I'm happy to be a fan of the 'niche' football game these days.
 
Great post Jamezinho hit the nail right on the head.

I do believe PES had a bunch of bandwagon followers after PES5 that fell off with PES2008 which was all konamis doing that game should not have been released the way it was.
 
Jamezinho said:
What bugs me the most is the collective bumming of Fifa in the games media. I listen to many gaming podcasts and I really do wonder what some of these ex-PES die-hards see in Fifa to talk so highly of it. Were they just populists jumping on PES back in the day because it was the game the cool kids played? Is that the reason they play Fifa these days, because that's the popular thing to do? Sure, Fifa has some great modes, especially online, but as a football experience it's so shallow. Did these guys appreciate PES for the right reasons in the first place? It really saddens me to hear journalists and podcasters talking so disparagingly about PES these days, as if it has nothing to offer at all.
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It depends on how you gauge a 'good' game. It's very accessible, has flawless presentation, and has very aesthetically pleasing animations. It ticks every box for the average football fan, and the fact you get people who don't even like football playing it, is testament to its success. In that respect, you can see why it's lauded in the media.

However, like you said, to us goons that look beneath the surface it just isn't deep enough. Unfortunately us lot only consist of a very small proportion of the market. I think the success of PES in the past was just a by-product of FIFA being so atrocious that even the casual couldn't stomach it. EA are onto a winner here though sadly. It's just a case of tweaking the formula each year from now on. This is why Konami's efforts to attract the arcade audience makes absolutely no sense. If they realised their niche and focused on recreating a sim, there should be enough of a hardcore to make it a profitable en devour.
 
dannyfc2 said:
I think the success of PES in the past was just a by-product of FIFA being so atrocious that even the casual couldn't stomach it.
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Not sure why you think that? Fifa outsold PES every year bar two years, Also PES on PS1 & PS2 were incredible games nothing to do with Fifa being rubbish.
 
@Jamezinho

The ex pes diehard fans switched to fifa because konami screwed next gen with their first attempt, they tried fifa and its easy to come in, looks good, has less frustration moments and u dont have to put so much time into it.
You have a job, maybe kids, less time, u like the better online mode and sitting infront of a big screen enjoying a game, thats what older pes diehard fans experienced and why they moved away from pes.

A game is about joy, if a game like pes is facing u with many little issues, thats putting u away from a franchise.

@danny
yes, they tried a more sim approach with 010 and directly moved away from it with 011 and 012
 
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dannyfc2 said:
This is why Konami's efforts to attract the arcade audience makes absolutely no sense. If they realised their niche and focused on recreating a sim, there should be enough of a hardcore to make it a profitable en devour.
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Totally agree with this.

Konami should embrace what PES is (and always has been) about - a slightly quirky football sim that's approachable yet deep enough for those who put the time in. Forget the causal market. Leave that to Fifa. It's gone. Go all-out for the 'purists'. It may not be as big as the casual market but with football being the world's number one sport, Konami have still got a huge market to sell their product to.
 
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