PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Ok, I won't bother posting stuff from Adam in future. I agree with both of you that he is prone to hype and hyperbole.

Just thought this in particular was quite interesting, and hopefully gives an early sign that Konami are really focusing on the basics of football.
 
Jamezinho said:
A couple of snippets from Adam today:





The talk of the R2 button and first touch sounds brilliant.

This should get Jimmy moist at least. :))
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Adam's certainly sticking his neck out on the line more than ever this year. The amount of individuality he is talking about is surly something to be excited about as it seems Konami have went all out.
 
Jamezinho said:
Ok, I won't bother posting stuff from Adam in future. I agree with both of you that he is prone to hype and hyperbole.

Just thought this in particular was quite interesting, and hopefully gives an early sign that Konami are really focusing on the basics of football.
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It's always been there bud, has Adam only just realised this ? We have been talking about First Touch on here since PES 2010 when it became it's most prominent.

The First Touch is very evident now individuality wise, with or without R2.

Adam will be telling us next that shooting is now based purely on fundamental technique across all areas. :YAWN:
 
But didn't they inexplicably eradicate the Shot Technique stat Jimmy? :WHISTLE: (I know you were referring to body balance/momentum variables etc.)

Seriously, there are so many removed features I'd love to grill Seabass about, given the chance. You beta-testers don't know how fortunate you are.
 
dannyfc2 said:
But didn't they inexplicably eradicate the Shot Technique stat Jimmy? :WHISTLE: (I know you were referring to body balance/momentum variables etc.)

Seriously, there are so many removed features I'd love to grill Seabass about, given the chance. You beta-testers don't know how fortunate you are.
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So their are people currently advising seabass on gameplay? He needs pointing in the right direction, lets hope they are pointing in the right direction
 
dannyfc2 said:
But didn't they inexplicably eradicate the Shot Technique stat Jimmy? :WHISTLE: (I know you were referring to body balance/momentum variables etc.)

Seriously, there are so many removed features I'd love to grill Seabass about, given the chance. You beta-testers don't know how fortunate you are.
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They did, but it's still there bud, it's just in the shooting statistics. The better players can still place it better, chip it better, etc etc. They always have more control with the new long-range R2 shots. And although they removed certain Player Cards, they also added new ones. And the biggest addition, which I really like, is the Attack/Defence level scores-the ones that range from 1-3. Great addition that.
 
Jamezinho said:
The talk of the R2 button and first touch sounds brilliant.
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Yep. Whilst not a complete game-changer it could really add an extra layer of skill to proceedings.

dannyfc2 said:
Pure rhetoric again. Sketchy opinion without enough substance to be held accountable for. Yawn.
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I can fully appreciate your scepticism, Danny, but will say (without saying too much) that Adam has pretty much been given the lowdown on much of what Konami will be sayiing will feature in PES2013 and it's first announcement.

Jimmy G-Force said:
It's always been there bud, has Adam only just realised this ? We have been talking about First Touch on here since PES 2010 when it became it's most prominent.

The First Touch is very evident now individuality wise, with or without R2.

Adam will be telling us next that shooting is now based purely on fundamental technique across all areas. :YAWN:
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It's not really always been there, Jimmy, certainly not as fully formed as it could be and in PES2012, quality of first touch does not seem to differentiate greatly from player to player. Not that I am saying there isn't individuality present, just that the differences aren't as noticeable as was found in classic PES. Plus, I would say there is room for more variety in how players - particularly more skillful/technical players - can take a ball under control, especially air-balls and alike.

This R2 first touch mechanic has got me thinking - I wonder if it will be implemented in a fashion that isn't a million miles away from how the ''trapping'' mechanic worked in ISS 64? I think it was in my very first editorial for the site when I spoke of this as being something that could/should return when talking about manual modifier control....

http://winningelevenblog.com/blog/how-commitment-can-set-you-free/

It doesn’t end there for Manual Modifier Control though. Oh no, there is still a bit we can eek out of the system yet!

I remember fondly on the N64 version of ISS98 that it had a nifty little button command simply referred to as ‘Trapping’. What trapping did was basically allow your player to control and takedown a pass in whatever way they saw fit. So pressing down the ‘Trapping’ button as a high ball was incoming saw your player leap in the air a chest trap the ball. However if you held down the trapping button and then pressed in any direction on the pad/stick your player would leap to control the ball but this time would caress the ball down in the direction you had presse. This wasn’t just reserved for high or mid height passes either as when receiving a grounded pass and performing the same action would see you player flick the ball up in the direction chosen allowing him to set for a volley or even flick the ball over himself and any markers in close attention into the bargain! Honestly, how many times have you been playing PES and just wished you had a little more say in how a player traps the ball or performs his first touch? Well ‘Trappping’ should make a comeback and it too could be assigned to L2/Lt along with the ability to manually control passes, shots etc.

Did I also mention that the ‘trapping’ button, when held in down when your player was stationary and no direction was pressed on the D-pad/stick would see him start to juggle the ball? and when you then pushed the stick or pad in chosen direction he would start to juggle on the move albeit slowly so as it was somewhat risky though offered the ability to showboat somewhat? These are the little lost gems of control that need to make a re-appearance in a Konami football title. I know ISS98 on the N64 was programmed by a different developer(KCEO) but surely Seabass and co. could take alittle dip into yesteryear for some inspiration.

When I said that the commitment to D-pad or Stick by the player would result in one input being freed up I was lying however.
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What I am thinking is that R2 ''first touch'' in PES2013 could work in a similar fashion. What it could be is that pressing R2 alone would be a stationary cushioned take, pressing R2 then pushing the stick results in a cushioned first touch in that direction, and finally pushing the stick before pressing R2 would see the player perform a knock-on first touch similar to that found in FIFA. Not too sure if PES2013 should allow for juggling to be as easy as it was in the N64 games though.
 
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Alan, your kidding me right ? That R2 Trapping, and control in a direction is already in PES 12, I use it all the time. As is the R2 'pass-through' (a Super-Cancel type dummy). First-Touch in the true technical sense never appeared properly until PES10. It was never in the PS2 versions in this regard. Hence all the complaints of unresponsiveness.
 
1st touch has been in PES for a loooong time. I conpleted a season in PEEL with Montpeliier. Giroud muist be the worst striker on the planet because of it he has great stats body balance, jump, shoot but but his 1st touch is woeful. There hacve been so many times that he has been on the end of a marvellous pass only to fluff it with his 1st touch.

Shooting for me is wierd on PES2012 long range shooting is spot on but 1 on 1 leaves me bewildered and I can't get me head around it. I had so many chances that go nowhere near where I am aiming it. In pes2011 you thought to roll it between the keeprs legs and could pull it off but PES2012 1 on 1 is totally random imo
 
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I think everyone knows first touch has been in PES for a long time. We all know what R2 does too. That's not the discussion here. The suggestion is that first touch and R2 control has been given more depth and versatility. That's why I posted Adam's comments as I found them interesting.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Alan, your kidding me right ? That R2 Trapping, and control in a direction is already in PES 12, I use it all the time. As is the R2 'pass-through' (a Super-Cancel type dummy). First-Touch in the true technical sense never appeared properly until PES10. It was never in the PS2 versions in this regard. Hence all the complaints of unresponsiveness.
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Jimmy, I am not saying there is not first touch mechanics in place in PES2012 (neither was Adam with his post) and I am well aware of the nuances to 1st touch in the game. What is being touted by Konami is further refinement and more depth/options/variety to first touch techniques.

The existing system is not quite the same as that which was found in N64 ISS, and although I do not wish a carbon copy of that games system, something which echoes it in some way would be welcome.
 
KONAMI need to sort out their atrocious game balance before anything. It's all very well having more 'intricacies' in the game, but if the CPU build up play isn't sorted out, then we'll be in the same boat (or even worse) as the human player grapples with a dozen different new additions whilst Messi XI swan from A to B. And KONAMI can tout all they want; it seems a lot of people aren't boarding the hype train this year, at least not til, demos, final code and extensive 'out of the box' testing.

This will be just like them to piss about with lots of things (which aren't really bad) and ignore/make worse what needs to be fixed. I'm patiently waiting for their announcement of 'Be a Steward' mode!
 
I just hope they get the MLO balance right this year. Even if its just the PES 11 system in place, I wouldn't have to bother with the CPU. No matter how much effort and technology they put into replicating realistic AI, it'll never match playing against a competent human.
 
ccshopland said:
KONAMI need to sort out their atrocious game balance before anything. It's all very well having more 'intricacies' in the game, but if the CPU build up play isn't sorted out, then we'll be in the same boat (or even worse) as the human player grapples with a dozen different new additions whilst Messi XI swan from A to B. And KONAMI can tout all they want; it seems a lot of people aren't boarding the hype train this year, at least not til, demos, final code and extensive 'out of the box' testing.

This will be just like them to piss about with lots of things (which aren't really bad) and ignore/make worse what needs to be fixed. I'm patiently waiting for their announcement of 'Be a Steward' mode!
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PES 2013 will have Active AI 2.0 so i think it's a given the AI will be better.
 
dannyfc2 said:
I just hope they get the MLO balance right this year. Even if its just the PES 11 system in place, I wouldn't have to bother with the CPU. No matter how much effort and technology they put into replicating realistic AI, it'll never match playing against a competent human.
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This.

A Zero Assisted MLO option would be my idea of heaven.
 
heard a rumour seabass will not be involved in pes 2013
apparently some film producer wants him in hollywood
cus they liked is script for pes 2012 so much.
 
dannyfc2 said:
Again, I think it's the lack of technical depth being represented.

Every team harries, the only reason the top teams have so much time on the ball is because their touch is sublime. If you had bobbles and touches shooting off shins it'd be a lot harder to retain possession, without resorting to amping up the CPU pressure. That is where you'd get difference in styles, if you're a low-skilled team where every pass carries a risk, you'd be lot less inclined to play it about effortlessly. As is the case now. Ruskin shouldn't be able to receive the ball flat out sprinting, with an inch perfect flick of the heel.

Both games ignore the unglamorous intricacies that make football what it is. Which is understandable as the core audience doesn't want that, they want 30 yard strikes and rainbow flicks.
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Perfectly worded exactly what my thoughts are about the current football games.

I want to see clumsy players giving the ball away with bad touches, failing to instantly control it, overhitting passes, underhitting backpasses etc. I want to see complete screw ups if I attempt to play the ball at impossible angles.
It didn't happen often, but sometimes in PES 2011 (maybe 2012?) if you pressed the pass or shot button when the ball wasn't properly within reach then your player would stretch and mishit or even completely miss the ball altogether - I saw complaints about this, particularly about the shooting when the ball wasn't sitting quite right for a clean contact.

I want more of that - give us reason to take as much care as possible over our actions, and change our decisions and gameplan based on the strengths and weaknesses of our players.

In PES 2011's MLO, initially with the default players I would play a basic form of long ball/wing play football where I would get the ball out of my third as soon as possible and just try to gain as many yards as possible and hope for lucky bounces in and around the opponent's box for my (incompetent) attackers to try and fumble in.
Gradually though, as you added that tricky little dribbler, the midfield playmaker, the clinical striker, the ball-playing centre-half etc. your play would become much more structured and intricate almost on it's own, then you factor in the tactical sliders and player roles and you realise that there are so many ways to approach each match.

This learning curve in the experience and seeing the matches play out so differently over time is what made PES 2011 such a great game for me.

In both FIFA and PES 2012 I find myself just playing a kind of linear and repetitive form of football purely because it works - no matter who the team or opposition, the same kind of "video game tactics" are the ones that prevail.
 
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Aye rob those miscues happen in PES regularly enough. A few days ago one of my opponents lobbed a throughball (now there's a surprise) and Gomis OGC Nice CB got ahead of him facing his own goak and retreating againsta faster CF I tried to hack it wide a little too early and missed the ball altoghether. It looked very realistic and funny as hell. As for Poor touches and stretching out I have a video of a Giroud blunder that O mentioned earlier and will post it up.
 
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