PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......
- Thread starter Jimmy G-Force
- Start date
dannyfc2
Premier League
- 9 June 2009
Right, so what do you when for the 5th consecutive game your told the team you're up against play 'strong-man' football?
There's so little variation in playing styles it isn't worth considering. Only width needs to be altered depending on how compact their formation is playing. None play a patient build-up, none play a high-back line, none look to play a ball over the top, etc....
There's so little variation in playing styles it isn't worth considering. Only width needs to be altered depending on how compact their formation is playing. None play a patient build-up, none play a high-back line, none look to play a ball over the top, etc....
henrys hand
Premier League
- 2 September 2010
Imho as long as shooting is scripted there is no point in playing PES 2012.
Nik
ARHS na goustaris!
How did we get to the point, where we enjoy FIFA more than PES...
Despite the obvious retardnes of the FIFA AI, the game is enjoyable to a certain extend.
1v1 is quite good, but boring as hell, because you see exactly the same goals all the time.
2v2 is quite good, so are the other types of team play... 3v3, 4v4 and so on. If FIFA manages to make a ranked brackets like 2v2 Head to Head, 3v3... the online experience will skyrocked.
Fifa has Ultimate team, that is quite addictive, but at a point it either needs you to play non stop or spend cash in order to build a competitive club.
Fifa Clubs, maybe the best online mode ever created for a football game. Despite the obvious gameplay blunders of the mode, such as the constant use of finesse shot and the massive AI problems, the mode remains more than addictive.
Where are those modes in PES, where is the damn Online play, that FIFA nails so perfectly, where did the magic of PES 6 online go... the servers were so packed back then, that it was a nightmare to get in.
I don't care what KONAMI has to do in order to get back in rails, but I bet all of you thought that the series are getting in shape after PES 2011, but KONAMI managed to prove as wrong once again with PES 2012... I have no hope whatsoever for the current series, I just hope that they will do better next gen, because without rivalry FIFA will remain an infected organism, that keeps on getting medications( Impact Engine, Pro Passing, Pro Vision, Tactical Defending, etc.), but remains rotten inside.
Cheers guys.
Despite the obvious retardnes of the FIFA AI, the game is enjoyable to a certain extend.
1v1 is quite good, but boring as hell, because you see exactly the same goals all the time.
2v2 is quite good, so are the other types of team play... 3v3, 4v4 and so on. If FIFA manages to make a ranked brackets like 2v2 Head to Head, 3v3... the online experience will skyrocked.
Fifa has Ultimate team, that is quite addictive, but at a point it either needs you to play non stop or spend cash in order to build a competitive club.
Fifa Clubs, maybe the best online mode ever created for a football game. Despite the obvious gameplay blunders of the mode, such as the constant use of finesse shot and the massive AI problems, the mode remains more than addictive.
Where are those modes in PES, where is the damn Online play, that FIFA nails so perfectly, where did the magic of PES 6 online go... the servers were so packed back then, that it was a nightmare to get in.
I don't care what KONAMI has to do in order to get back in rails, but I bet all of you thought that the series are getting in shape after PES 2011, but KONAMI managed to prove as wrong once again with PES 2012... I have no hope whatsoever for the current series, I just hope that they will do better next gen, because without rivalry FIFA will remain an infected organism, that keeps on getting medications( Impact Engine, Pro Passing, Pro Vision, Tactical Defending, etc.), but remains rotten inside.
Cheers guys.
AntrAcsA
Banned
- 8 November 2006
I'm ot this really hard core PES fans that actually I have no choice but to hope from Konam really make a good football game because I will never buy FIFA!
If I buy FIFA, it means to admit a for loser, to forget all this years of loyalty to the PES, to admit that all the time when I am defending PES in forums and I was wrong!? To admit that I have own forums,paches, mods and help for others and my worked were simply useless!?
Never ...
...if I need to play PES 6 online while I'm alive, but would never give my money to EA Sports ! Konami, must save fans like me from this shame ,this time are not entitled for a mistake... they must make a really good game from which all we can be proud of!...
Аmen
If I buy FIFA, it means to admit a for loser, to forget all this years of loyalty to the PES, to admit that all the time when I am defending PES in forums and I was wrong!? To admit that I have own forums,paches, mods and help for others and my worked were simply useless!?
Never ...
...if I need to play PES 6 online while I'm alive, but would never give my money to EA Sports ! Konami, must save fans like me from this shame ,this time are not entitled for a mistake... they must make a really good game from which all we can be proud of!...
Аmen
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Flaw3d Genius
Banned
That post will bring a tear to Seabass's eye, I think they're is alot of people like yourself but the numbers are dwindling fast.
PES 2013 will be make or break time for most of the company loyality gamers and if PES 2013 is not fantastic then im sure they wont have a problem switching if need be in 2014.
AntrAcsA
Banned
- 8 November 2006
Yeah, about PES 2013 .I really think that what makes Adam in WENB is wrong and immoral. Earning money on the back of PES fans waiting like a sponge absorb every word about PES 2013... he use that with announcements for the podcast which will talk about PES 2013, and we all know that he really can not say anything new and impressive. Even if he know something , very I'm much doubt, he has no right to say absolutely nothing, for now ,but he does this only for money, more visits, clicks and high traffic ...
And now he will say:
"Animations will be redesigned and will look good, might not have the FIFA level ,but will be great.
We have improved passes, shots, dribbling, there will be improvements in the modes and online , beter graphic and presentation " will speak trivial things just to attract more fans to his site to earn more money!
And now he will say:
"Animations will be redesigned and will look good, might not have the FIFA level ,but will be great.
We have improved passes, shots, dribbling, there will be improvements in the modes and online , beter graphic and presentation " will speak trivial things just to attract more fans to his site to earn more money!
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Lons
AMIGA 1200 HARDCORE FAN!
- 15 December 2007
Who belive Pes 2013 will be fantastic? I don't! If they have problem to make normal shooting, passing, running animations, collisions, game without scripting,keepers AI etc i don't think so they will make it in Pes 2013. No chance.....5 years waiting for normal game! not awesome but N O R M A L!
Nik
ARHS na goustaris!
Antracsa, PES 6 is indeed a great footie game, but it is dated even compared to PES 2012.
I've played PES myself since PES 2 and I'll always be a PES fan, but I can't see why should people not play Fifa if they find the game enjoyable and fun, after all aren't those games for that? to have fun and not the be frustrated 24/7 with them?
I'm not defendinf Fifa or anything like that, the game has its flaws, but compared to PES 2012, FIFA is the superior game.
As I've said earlier, If EA nails the AI(I doubt it), the difference between FIFA and PES will be extreme big and KONAMI will have to do some sort of "Mass Effect" jump in order to compete again with FIFA on all the levels(I again doubt it).
What I've learned through out those 5 years of PES torture, is that KONAMI lost any kind of direction and they are kinda confused what to do. Every year the game is different from the last and it has new problems, while the older ones are still present, we all know what the problems are - GK's, animations, passing, shooting, Online gameplay.
This generation of PES is lost and damned for many fans. I personally couldn't bare the differences between the demo 1 and the other variations of this years game.
How can every single Pro Evo fan that I've asked so far, what they think about PES 2012, told me that the game plays BAD, riggid and not in control with what happens on the pitch and those people are between the age of 14-45. Most of them play FIFA now, because they can play football the way they want to in a footie game and it looks like football. All of them have the same concerns about FIFA, the same concerns we all have. The game is nothing like football, but this year EA managed to make some step into balancing the game.
Most of the people playing FIFA nowadays, have played PES 6 and they feel the same playability with Fifa 12, that they've felt back then. The problems of Fifa aren't that much when you Online, but offline or in any other mode that requires some kind of AI assistance, FIFA fails so miserably, that I've had deleted the game several times now.
KONAMI has to prove that they know what they are doing, but the question that I ask myself is, "Is it too late?"
I've played PES myself since PES 2 and I'll always be a PES fan, but I can't see why should people not play Fifa if they find the game enjoyable and fun, after all aren't those games for that? to have fun and not the be frustrated 24/7 with them?
I'm not defendinf Fifa or anything like that, the game has its flaws, but compared to PES 2012, FIFA is the superior game.
As I've said earlier, If EA nails the AI(I doubt it), the difference between FIFA and PES will be extreme big and KONAMI will have to do some sort of "Mass Effect" jump in order to compete again with FIFA on all the levels(I again doubt it).
What I've learned through out those 5 years of PES torture, is that KONAMI lost any kind of direction and they are kinda confused what to do. Every year the game is different from the last and it has new problems, while the older ones are still present, we all know what the problems are - GK's, animations, passing, shooting, Online gameplay.
This generation of PES is lost and damned for many fans. I personally couldn't bare the differences between the demo 1 and the other variations of this years game.
How can every single Pro Evo fan that I've asked so far, what they think about PES 2012, told me that the game plays BAD, riggid and not in control with what happens on the pitch and those people are between the age of 14-45. Most of them play FIFA now, because they can play football the way they want to in a footie game and it looks like football. All of them have the same concerns about FIFA, the same concerns we all have. The game is nothing like football, but this year EA managed to make some step into balancing the game.
Most of the people playing FIFA nowadays, have played PES 6 and they feel the same playability with Fifa 12, that they've felt back then. The problems of Fifa aren't that much when you Online, but offline or in any other mode that requires some kind of AI assistance, FIFA fails so miserably, that I've had deleted the game several times now.
KONAMI has to prove that they know what they are doing, but the question that I ask myself is, "Is it too late?"
Flaw3d Genius
Banned
Who belive Pes 2013 will be fantastic? I don't! If they have problem to make normal shooting, passing, running animations, collisions, game without scripting,keepers AI etc i don't think so they will make it in Pes 2013. No chance.....5 years waiting for normal game! not awesome but N O R M A L!
Well this year will tell us if Konami got lucky before, they have had all the feedback in the world how to fix the game and now have Adam from WENB working for them trying to get PES 2013 exactly how the fans want.
PES 2012 is close to being fantastic but also a million miles away at the same time... with the right coding PES 2013 should be fantastic. No more excuses.
I do love and hate pro at the same time, theres moments in the game that i find myself jeering on and jumping about, then theres times it aggrovates me to death. I do hope animations get touched on, advance the defending, i just get annoyed with konami as every year it seems like there almost nailing it but a few niggles/nags break the game from time to time. I've loved pes since i was like 9/10, It's just strange how times change, i could have never found myself not enjoying pes as much as past. Hopefully konami pull it out the bag, otherwise i think the franchise will slowly disappear.
AntrAcsA
Banned
- 8 November 2006
For me that is the biggest problem. Konam Work with people like Adam. 90% of people in WENB, users of WENB are idiots , the remaining 10% who know the game thoroughly, or not come tere or have a ban.That why the game is and will be not good enough.
@ElvisSs , difference between us is that, most of my life was connected with PES , to the maintenance of PES sites and development of PES patches. I know every pixel of the game, every movement, every wobble, there is a difference that you might have been a fan of PES since you were a fan of football games and you were not so closely related to PES, so it was easy for you to pass to FIFbut FIFA is the most important advantage askept for this kind of games ... and .. that.. is the online mode, it lubricates the total PES, because people want to play together and admit why you buy the game to play online !
The PES problem also is that not good enough, not at this level which was the old games , there is not that addicted gameplay and the desire for more and more, because after every game you see more problems that you wish kill desire for play, this was not in the old games, even was the opposite.... just cant stop to play
Much was has spoken about the problems of PES, the new generation of PES, FIFA has also it much bigger problems, but online, good online and good PR which compensates for all
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Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Just had another crack at PES2012. Every game boils down to trying to thread a ball through a tightly-packed eight man defence yet at the same time the CPU can break my defence wide apart and score with ease when it needs to. It's ridiculous really because this game has so much potential but it lacks balance as far as the AI is concerned. I'm sure it's great fun in online/offline multiplayer.
I think the best way to play this game is to turn up the passing assist and play the game arcade style like the old days. I also don't see the point in playing patient build-up football. It's just as effective to lump the ball forward before the CPU can form it's two banks of four.
I think the best way to play this game is to turn up the passing assist and play the game arcade style like the old days. I also don't see the point in playing patient build-up football. It's just as effective to lump the ball forward before the CPU can form it's two banks of four.
ccshopland
Premier League
- 4 January 2011
^ Agree both both above -
I am a banned person from WENB, Adam only likes to hear people saying the sun shines out of his arse, when in fact it's most of the banned people or people that are just dis-enfranchised with the site that offer the most in terms of analysis and contribution. That's why I love this site.
And Jamezinho is right, the only way to get any enjoyment from 2012 this year is just to match the CPU in an arcade blast. Set your formation, play on gamespeed 0, and just let rip in an end to end shoot out. 3-2, 4-3 type games will probably be the outcome, but at least it will be more enjoyable than trying your damndest to make it a sim.
I am a banned person from WENB, Adam only likes to hear people saying the sun shines out of his arse, when in fact it's most of the banned people or people that are just dis-enfranchised with the site that offer the most in terms of analysis and contribution. That's why I love this site.
And Jamezinho is right, the only way to get any enjoyment from 2012 this year is just to match the CPU in an arcade blast. Set your formation, play on gamespeed 0, and just let rip in an end to end shoot out. 3-2, 4-3 type games will probably be the outcome, but at least it will be more enjoyable than trying your damndest to make it a sim.
Lons
AMIGA 1200 HARDCORE FAN!
- 15 December 2007
Do you seriously believe? They have problem with basic things like shooting or realistic kepeers animations. In this situation do you believe in fantastic Pes 2013? Can you explain me one thing? In Pes 2012 A.I generally is good because KONAMI worked on it one year but why A.I for keepers are embarrassing? Why? They make A.I for game good enough but forgot about A.I for keepres? I can't understand it.....It's looks like amateurish developing.
Flaw3d Genius
Banned
Like Adam or not having him working on PES 2013 surly can only be a good thing? He has loved PES from the beginning much like us and knows what made PES great...him saying he will take full responsibility if it doesnt turn out amazing really says he has full confidence with his input into the game and how it's turning out so far.
curdstar
Premier League
- 19 September 2006
- PES4 Partick Thistle
It's a shame we've spiraled back into WENB bashing, but it's nice to see a level headed post from your good self
More disappointing than anything. It's not as if I/we care of what you guys think of us, after all you were all banned for a reason, but seeing most of the ones bashing us still visit the site regularly and link up quotes from there and bring them here, I was hoping for some sort understanding and appreciation.
Hopefully you will all soon get back to concentrating on the game being made, rather than what WENB do/don't do.
Prelude: I'm not saying that PES 2011 is a better game or even a good game. That time is past...
I played two 20 minute, Top Player, games this afternoon, as Birmingham City vs. Chelsea and I present the Match Details with only one comment (plus one emoticon): what in the name of the sweet lord?
PES 2011
Birmingham Chelsea
Possession 52 / 48
Shots (on Target) 8(6) / 12(9)
Goals 1 / 3
Types of Goals 2 1 v 1's, volley from low cross, corner header
PES 2012 Birmingham Chelsea
Possession 64 / 36
Shots (on Target) 8 (5) / 22 (16)
Goals 2 / 2
Types of Goals 3 headers from high cross, corner header
I played two 20 minute, Top Player, games this afternoon, as Birmingham City vs. Chelsea and I present the Match Details with only one comment (plus one emoticon): what in the name of the sweet lord?
PES 2011
Birmingham Chelsea
Possession 52 / 48
Shots (on Target) 8(6) / 12(9)
Goals 1 / 3
Types of Goals 2 1 v 1's, volley from low cross, corner header
PES 2012 Birmingham Chelsea
Possession 64 / 36
Shots (on Target) 8 (5) / 22 (16)
Goals 2 / 2
Types of Goals 3 headers from high cross, corner header
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Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
Prelude: I'm not saying that PES 2011 is a better game or even a good game. That time is past...
I played two 20 minute, Top Player, games this afternoon, as Birmingham City vs. Chelsea and I present the Match Details with only one comment (plus one emoticon): what in the name of the sweet lord?
PES 2011
Birmingham Chelsea
Possession 52 / 48
Shots (on Target) 8(6) / 12(9)
Goals 1 / 3
Types of Goals 2 1 v 1's, volley from low cross, corner header
PES 2012 Birmingham Chelsea
Possession 64 / 36
Shots (on Target) 8 (5) / 22 (16)
Goals 2 / 2
Types of Goals 3 headers from high cross, corner header
ask yourself, which did you enjoy more?
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
That's hardly a controlled experiment so posting those stats isn't really indicative of whether PES 2012 is good or bad in whatever argument you are implying. I don't think either version has truly superb AI in terms of variety or style of opposition buildup play. Hopefully they can improve it for PES 2013.
But let me ask you this - how many people do you play against in either PES or FIFA that actually play the way you want the AI to play? Yes there's variety and different gamestyles, but most are still fairly direct styles are they not? What Konami need to do is make the gamestyles relevant, so if a team plays possession football, they actually do play possession football etc.
But let me ask you this - how many people do you play against in either PES or FIFA that actually play the way you want the AI to play? Yes there's variety and different gamestyles, but most are still fairly direct styles are they not? What Konami need to do is make the gamestyles relevant, so if a team plays possession football, they actually do play possession football etc.
Prelude: I'm not saying that PES 2011 is a better game or even a good game. That time is past......but the absurdity of the PES 2012 Match Details speaks for itself. And I'm not saying that PES 2012 is a terrible game. I've had moments of absolute bliss, and playing offense is frequently amazing, but the game is also slightly absurd, even juvenile, attested to by those Match Details. You know, when you love football, you also love the numbers, the details, the statistics. You don't want childishness, you know?
"What Konami need to do is make the gamestyles relevant, so if a team plays possession football, they actually do play possession football etc"--great point, calciocalbrese
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AntrAcsA
Banned
- 8 November 2006
Of course that Adam loves PES,he wants PES to be good, but the problem is that Adam is PES noob. Much of the structure of the game are its not clear for him, he dont understands big part of gameplay tips and tools and he don't use them. Again, EA realized that thet should gather around the best FIFA players like Hjerpseth,Haaazee, KSIOlajidebt and more ,work to develop the game.
I would be calm if someone like Jimmy was connection of Konami with community. He know every litle part of the game, he know how to make anything, how to use it and how must be , Adam is not that man, sorry.
Its my option .
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ccshopland
Premier League
- 4 January 2011
Radha does have a point guys.
I mean look at the match scores during a ML campaign for example - yesterday I had Arsenal 5-1 Man City, then there were 3-3's everywhere, a 0-0 or 1-0 is like gold dust.
PES 2011 gave me rages I didn't think I had in me (but because I was engrossed), whilst PES 2012 for all the little improvements in certain areas, generally just give me a meh attitude, win lose or draw.
So one of those games, was doing something right?!?
PES 2012 the CPU gets possession not from passing the ball and having possession in it's purest sense, but from dribbling left, right and centre. PES 2011 'possession' from the CPU is just that, they possess it and pass it.
So even if the stats are say 60-40 to the human player in BOTH games, the illusion that PES 2011 creates is more simulation, because th time the CPU do have with the ball is build up play time, passing, moving, sideways, back etc.
Now I'm not saying PES 2011 is dynamite; it clearly has it's problems too. But the capacity for the CPU to hold onto possession is better in 2011 than 2012 in a realistic pass the ball about midfield way than merely just dribbling all the time. And you even go back further, to PES 5/6, I can distinctly being on the worst end of possession stats, and furthermore rememeber having to chase the ball around the CPU's defence in the last fifteen minutes of games, which the CPU tactically closed out. Now this is simulation.
The game in my book should be as much to do with when you haven't got the ball and how you position/defend than when you do have the ball. PES 2012 is delivered I'm afraid in this arcade you have an attack, we have an attack mentality, when in reality this is just difficult to do because of the midfield/defensive units.
It's not that the CPU should be pressing like manics on crack, but the CPU or programming should be more skilful in waiting it's time and closing down space quicker and putting men under pressure in certain areas. So should the AI for the human. Right now, comparing 2012 to the old games, I can just see a noob friendly attacking game.
We need to go right back to hardcore. Players having bad first touches, ball control vital, accurate passing stats represented, speed/agility represented, acceleration etc etc, all these things from a technical point of view will just slow this manic arcade feeling down that is now currently just end to end.
And
@ Curstar
The problem is fella that most of the people banned on WENB are the articulate detailed guys who go into a game with a fine tooth comb, both good and bad. Why? Because we love PES lol, and probably play it a million hours more than Adam, it's these sort of people that have been excluded that you need on forums as much for healthy debate as for highlighting the problems. Healthy debate in Adam's eyes means sugar coating things. But of course Adam is a mini-celeb, and with that comes..... Now all you have on there is Janet and John kids, kissing arse left right and centre. Great, I suppose, if you want no fuss.
But the interesting thing is that from your podcast I get a sense that even Adam is getting pissed off and can now clearly see the flaws of the game. So why not just come out on the forums weeks ago and say what he thought (like in the podcast) instead of buttering things up and firing anyone who said anything bad about PES? Christ, WENB has become so precious and everything that a forum shouldn't be, like the EA forums of the last few years (although ironically THIS year, there seems to be much more intelligent debate and game bashing going on in there - which it's what it's all about isn't it, after all it's the consumers money).
I've already detailed in the past, and this doesn't give my opinion ANY more or less weight than anybody else, but having shelled out £110 on PES products this year, I think I'm entitled to an opinion. I think I'm entitled to go into as much or as little detail as possible to highlight the games problem areas (from my perspective) and good areas. If this steps on some toes in the hierarchy than fine, obviously the way WENB is run at the moment everyone (both mods/members) seem happy. So it may be best if the mouthy ones stay clear from old Goebbels over there, and just watch WENB from afar.....and bash the game on here
PS - PES is still a million times better than FIFA. Man had another go yesterday, Jesus, what a bad game. I'm top of the CM, with Liverpool, but get absolutely no joy in the game whatsoever, it's like moving grids continually, forever and ever. Christ how this game is so over-hyped, I'll never know. Await Placebo's response...
I mean look at the match scores during a ML campaign for example - yesterday I had Arsenal 5-1 Man City, then there were 3-3's everywhere, a 0-0 or 1-0 is like gold dust.
PES 2011 gave me rages I didn't think I had in me (but because I was engrossed), whilst PES 2012 for all the little improvements in certain areas, generally just give me a meh attitude, win lose or draw.
So one of those games, was doing something right?!?
PES 2012 the CPU gets possession not from passing the ball and having possession in it's purest sense, but from dribbling left, right and centre. PES 2011 'possession' from the CPU is just that, they possess it and pass it.
So even if the stats are say 60-40 to the human player in BOTH games, the illusion that PES 2011 creates is more simulation, because th time the CPU do have with the ball is build up play time, passing, moving, sideways, back etc.
Now I'm not saying PES 2011 is dynamite; it clearly has it's problems too. But the capacity for the CPU to hold onto possession is better in 2011 than 2012 in a realistic pass the ball about midfield way than merely just dribbling all the time. And you even go back further, to PES 5/6, I can distinctly being on the worst end of possession stats, and furthermore rememeber having to chase the ball around the CPU's defence in the last fifteen minutes of games, which the CPU tactically closed out. Now this is simulation.
The game in my book should be as much to do with when you haven't got the ball and how you position/defend than when you do have the ball. PES 2012 is delivered I'm afraid in this arcade you have an attack, we have an attack mentality, when in reality this is just difficult to do because of the midfield/defensive units.
It's not that the CPU should be pressing like manics on crack, but the CPU or programming should be more skilful in waiting it's time and closing down space quicker and putting men under pressure in certain areas. So should the AI for the human. Right now, comparing 2012 to the old games, I can just see a noob friendly attacking game.
We need to go right back to hardcore. Players having bad first touches, ball control vital, accurate passing stats represented, speed/agility represented, acceleration etc etc, all these things from a technical point of view will just slow this manic arcade feeling down that is now currently just end to end.
And
@ Curstar
The problem is fella that most of the people banned on WENB are the articulate detailed guys who go into a game with a fine tooth comb, both good and bad. Why? Because we love PES lol, and probably play it a million hours more than Adam, it's these sort of people that have been excluded that you need on forums as much for healthy debate as for highlighting the problems. Healthy debate in Adam's eyes means sugar coating things. But of course Adam is a mini-celeb, and with that comes..... Now all you have on there is Janet and John kids, kissing arse left right and centre. Great, I suppose, if you want no fuss.
But the interesting thing is that from your podcast I get a sense that even Adam is getting pissed off and can now clearly see the flaws of the game. So why not just come out on the forums weeks ago and say what he thought (like in the podcast) instead of buttering things up and firing anyone who said anything bad about PES? Christ, WENB has become so precious and everything that a forum shouldn't be, like the EA forums of the last few years (although ironically THIS year, there seems to be much more intelligent debate and game bashing going on in there - which it's what it's all about isn't it, after all it's the consumers money).
I've already detailed in the past, and this doesn't give my opinion ANY more or less weight than anybody else, but having shelled out £110 on PES products this year, I think I'm entitled to an opinion. I think I'm entitled to go into as much or as little detail as possible to highlight the games problem areas (from my perspective) and good areas. If this steps on some toes in the hierarchy than fine, obviously the way WENB is run at the moment everyone (both mods/members) seem happy. So it may be best if the mouthy ones stay clear from old Goebbels over there, and just watch WENB from afar.....and bash the game on here
PS - PES is still a million times better than FIFA. Man had another go yesterday, Jesus, what a bad game. I'm top of the CM, with Liverpool, but get absolutely no joy in the game whatsoever, it's like moving grids continually, forever and ever. Christ how this game is so over-hyped, I'll never know. Await Placebo's response...
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h3li0
League 1
- 13 August 2008
By the words in WENB, it seem we will get bars for every single part of the game, crossing, shooting, passing ( again this was said in form of a supposition)...
Ok, it might be a rushed opinion, but i think that if they go on with that ideia, it will be a big, big mess. If they don´t get it right this year on passing why the hell would they get it right for PES 2013 and in every single part of the game???
Why don´t they stuck with just 2 or 3 simple options like manual, semi, and automatic, and make semi the preset for online, but make it good like it used to be in the past where there were no options at all, and the game was brilliant...
Why follow FIFA in every single thing, if they cannot yet get on with the fundamentals this generation? Wy dont they just do something very good and improve on that instead of experimenting all sort of new things, that all it brings was troubles and complications in gameplay, followed by patches and more patches...
Despite liking PES 2012, with all its flaws and frustrations, i have very low expectations for this game this year.
I will only buy it after 2 or 3 weeks, or a month, and after playing the retail code for more than 10 or 15 hours to know if it fullfill the need i have in a football game.
Well lets wait for more announcments, and news regarding the new iteration of the Pro Evolution Mess this generation was turned in.
Ok, it might be a rushed opinion, but i think that if they go on with that ideia, it will be a big, big mess. If they don´t get it right this year on passing why the hell would they get it right for PES 2013 and in every single part of the game???
Why don´t they stuck with just 2 or 3 simple options like manual, semi, and automatic, and make semi the preset for online, but make it good like it used to be in the past where there were no options at all, and the game was brilliant...
Why follow FIFA in every single thing, if they cannot yet get on with the fundamentals this generation? Wy dont they just do something very good and improve on that instead of experimenting all sort of new things, that all it brings was troubles and complications in gameplay, followed by patches and more patches...
Despite liking PES 2012, with all its flaws and frustrations, i have very low expectations for this game this year.
I will only buy it after 2 or 3 weeks, or a month, and after playing the retail code for more than 10 or 15 hours to know if it fullfill the need i have in a football game.
Well lets wait for more announcments, and news regarding the new iteration of the Pro Evolution Mess this generation was turned in.
ccshopland
Premier League
- 4 January 2011
I want a hardcore experience, but it won't happen. I want the players to have the sort of weight and movement somewhere between 2011 and 2012. I want it to be difficult (for both CPU and human) to just go from A to B totally bypassing the midfield. I want s stamina system whereby parking the bus will knacker the defending team if used for long periods. I want a representation of football that balances attack and defence, even if the emphasis is on defence more. I want the stats to matter and not ignored past Top Player, again for both the CPU and human.
The gameplay hardness should be as much to do with how hard it is to get the ball back off the CPU if anything, not whether the CPU can throw more scripts at you. And the level the teams are at should reflect also on the game type they play (eg lower league sides may throw more long balls into the mix and look to win aerial encounters high up the pitch, Barce will pass it all day etc). Strength and speed are just two types of attribute, but they seem to be the most effective attributes in nearly all football games.
Strength and speed mean nothing if the guy has the touch of a rapist and their balance is poor. I like Curstar's philosophy built on the NBA games that players have 'tendencies'. So for example, Man Utd's midfield of say Carrick and Fletcher shouldn't be overly flashy, but they should hardly ever give the ball away, let alone even consider to dribble.
Dribbling is such a difficult art, and yet everyone on PES 2012 has Messi like dribbling ability. Why doesn't the ball ricochet in front of the player at different distances and generally be mis-controlled when I sprint at full tilt with say Carragher?!?
All this needs to be dove-tailed together to create a truly sim-like experience. Then and only then will I EVER venture online, because the game is so noob friendly at the moment that the only tactic you need is to pick a high ranked team, and dribble and run and pass at super high octane speed without any consideration for real world laws of physics.
The sooner the game becomes hardcore, the better both offline and online will be. PES should stick to what it used to do best and not copy FIFA, if it does this, then it only looks like a poor man's FIFA and nothing more.
The gameplay hardness should be as much to do with how hard it is to get the ball back off the CPU if anything, not whether the CPU can throw more scripts at you. And the level the teams are at should reflect also on the game type they play (eg lower league sides may throw more long balls into the mix and look to win aerial encounters high up the pitch, Barce will pass it all day etc). Strength and speed are just two types of attribute, but they seem to be the most effective attributes in nearly all football games.
Strength and speed mean nothing if the guy has the touch of a rapist and their balance is poor. I like Curstar's philosophy built on the NBA games that players have 'tendencies'. So for example, Man Utd's midfield of say Carrick and Fletcher shouldn't be overly flashy, but they should hardly ever give the ball away, let alone even consider to dribble.
Dribbling is such a difficult art, and yet everyone on PES 2012 has Messi like dribbling ability. Why doesn't the ball ricochet in front of the player at different distances and generally be mis-controlled when I sprint at full tilt with say Carragher?!?
All this needs to be dove-tailed together to create a truly sim-like experience. Then and only then will I EVER venture online, because the game is so noob friendly at the moment that the only tactic you need is to pick a high ranked team, and dribble and run and pass at super high octane speed without any consideration for real world laws of physics.
The sooner the game becomes hardcore, the better both offline and online will be. PES should stick to what it used to do best and not copy FIFA, if it does this, then it only looks like a poor man's FIFA and nothing more.
Lons
AMIGA 1200 HARDCORE FAN!
- 15 December 2007
Radha does have a point guys.
I mean look at the match scores during a ML campaign for example - yesterday I had Arsenal 5-1 Man City, then there were 3-3's everywhere, a 0-0 or 1-0 is like gold dust.
PES 2011 gave me rages I didn't think I had in me (but because I was engrossed), whilst PES 2012 for all the little improvements in certain areas, generally just give me a meh attitude, win lose or draw.
So one of those games, was doing something right?!?
PES 2012 the CPU gets possession not from passing the ball and having possession in it's purest sense, but from dribbling left, right and centre. PES 2011 'possession' from the CPU is just that, they possess it and pass it.
So even if the stats are say 60-40 to the human player in BOTH games, the illusion that PES 2011 creates is more simulation, because th time the CPU do have with the ball is build up play time, passing, moving, sideways, back etc.
Now I'm not saying PES 2011 is dynamite; it clearly has it's problems too. But the capacity for the CPU to hold onto possession is better in 2011 than 2012 in a realistic pass the ball about midfield way than merely just dribbling all the time. And you even go back further, to PES 5/6, I can distinctly being on the worst end of possession stats, and furthermore rememeber having to chase the ball around the CPU's defence in the last fifteen minutes of games, which the CPU tactically closed out. Now this is simulation.
The game in my book should be as much to do with when you haven't got the ball and how you position/defend than when you do have the ball. PES 2012 is delivered I'm afraid in this arcade you have an attack, we have an attack mentality, when in reality this is just difficult to do because of the midfield/defensive units.
It's not that the CPU should be pressing like manics on crack, but the CPU or programming should be more skilful in waiting it's time and closing down space quicker and putting men under pressure in certain areas. So should the AI for the human. Right now, comparing 2012 to the old games, I can just see a noob friendly attacking game.
We need to go right back to hardcore. Players having bad first touches, ball control vital, accurate passing stats represented, speed/agility represented, acceleration etc etc, all these things from a technical point of view will just slow this manic arcade feeling down that is now currently just end to end.
And
@ Curstar
The problem is fella that most of the people banned on WENB are the articulate detailed guys who go into a game with a fine tooth comb, both good and bad. Why? Because we love PES lol, and probably play it a million hours more than Adam, it's these sort of people that have been excluded that you need on forums as much for healthy debate as for highlighting the problems. Healthy debate in Adam's eyes means sugar coating things. But of course Adam is a mini-celeb, and with that comes..... Now all you have on there is Janet and John kids, kissing arse left right and centre. Great, I suppose, if you want no fuss.
But the interesting thing is that from your podcast I get a sense that even Adam is getting pissed off and can now clearly see the flaws of the game. So why not just come out on the forums weeks ago and say what he thought (like in the podcast) instead of buttering things up and firing anyone who said anything bad about PES? Christ, WENB has become so precious and everything that a forum shouldn't be, like the EA forums of the last few years (although ironically THIS year, there seems to be much more intelligent debate and game bashing going on in there - which it's what it's all about isn't it, after all it's the consumers money).
I've already detailed in the past, and this doesn't give my opinion ANY more or less weight than anybody else, but having shelled out £110 on PES products this year, I think I'm entitled to an opinion. I think I'm entitled to go into as much or as little detail as possible to highlight the games problem areas (from my perspective) and good areas. If this steps on some toes in the hierarchy than fine, obviously the way WENB is run at the moment everyone (both mods/members) seem happy. So it may be best if the mouthy ones stay clear from old Goebbels over there, and just watch WENB from afar.....and bash the game on here
PS - PES is still a million times better than FIFA. Man had another go yesterday, Jesus, what a bad game. I'm top of the CM, with Liverpool, but get absolutely no joy in the game whatsoever, it's like moving grids continually, forever and ever. Christ how this game is so over-hyped, I'll never know. Await Placebo's response...
It's sound like hardcore fanboy. Pes is not milion times better than FIFA. Pes was milion times better than FIFA in Ps2 days but not these days. Pes is game with a lot of problems and stupid mistakes. KONAMI have a lot of work, a lot......
ccshopland
Premier League
- 4 January 2011
Err, no. Not a fanboy. Played 2010 FIFA more than 2010 PES, played PES 2011 more offline than 2011 FIFA, but played 2011 FIFA more online. 2012 FIFA for me is virtually unplayable, even though I have near enough 'mastered' the game at Legendary (which didn't take long). PES 2012 has flaws, but it's general gameplay and flow is only what FIFA can dream of.
I think this is a really interesting year for FIFA actually, many people are on these forums saying 'oh if FIFA could just get the gameplay right' blah blah blah, like it's a tap they can switch on and off. I think it's a lot, lot deeper than that. I'd rather have the gameplay and shit aesthetics than the aesthetics and a gameplay which hasn't changed in donkeys, and to which, I don't think they can change that much. I really do think FIFA have reached the end of the line with gameplay adjustment....I'll be happy to be proved wrong.
Lons
AMIGA 1200 HARDCORE FAN!
- 15 December 2007
Look how FIFA has evolved and Pes.
Pes 2008 - beta version of the game with terrible animations,slow downs, terrible online (lags), poor edit mode, fast arcade pace,automatic passing.
Pes 2009 - continue beta Pes 2008 with the same problems but without slow downs but with the same problems like Pes 2008.
Pes 2010 - Nice graphics, some new animations but still looking ugly, with better pace. Game looks like Pes 2008 and 2009 with better wrapped
Summary:
Three years and still have problems with basic things.
Pes 2011 - good move from KONAMI. Freedom in passing, good pace, better online, shooting not so bad but better than Pes 2012. A.I not good. The game was fresh. It feels like new menatality of the game.
Pes 2012 - Continue Pes 2011 but with a lot of bad things like assist passing, terrible shooting, the same some ugly animations, scripting game, primitive keepers A.I. New and nice ball physics.
Summary:
Another two yeras with good A.I and ball physics. Rest is poor.
FIFA 08 - new engine with good pace, maybe to slow, nice graphics,something fresh and in particular good basic for the futere. Good online.
FIFA 09 - another huge step in animations and collision system. Better ball physics but still to floaty. Nice grapahics and big step forward. Good online with 11 v 11.
FIFA 10 - 360 degree, better ball physics, upgrade animations and collisions, A.I much better for keepers + animaytions for them etc.
FIFA 11 - they try make better individuality but still not good, better graphisc, better turfs, pace good.
FIFA 12 - new collision engine with a lot of bugs but technically looks superb. Nice new camera, a lot new animations and upgrade old one, upgrade ball physics, new commentary and good audio + chants like all Fifa's.
Summary:
They know want they want and they do it.
Compare this to ways how two games evolved in this generation of consoles. FIFA change things for better, and adds, upgrade new one. They have one idea and don't change mentality of the game. Pes don't know what they want. In one game they created freedom passing in another adds automatic arcade style. What is going on? Why they dont' continue good thigs? and change it for bad? I don't know. That's all.
Pes 2008 - beta version of the game with terrible animations,slow downs, terrible online (lags), poor edit mode, fast arcade pace,automatic passing.
Pes 2009 - continue beta Pes 2008 with the same problems but without slow downs but with the same problems like Pes 2008.
Pes 2010 - Nice graphics, some new animations but still looking ugly, with better pace. Game looks like Pes 2008 and 2009 with better wrapped
Summary:
Three years and still have problems with basic things.
Pes 2011 - good move from KONAMI. Freedom in passing, good pace, better online, shooting not so bad but better than Pes 2012. A.I not good. The game was fresh. It feels like new menatality of the game.
Pes 2012 - Continue Pes 2011 but with a lot of bad things like assist passing, terrible shooting, the same some ugly animations, scripting game, primitive keepers A.I. New and nice ball physics.
Summary:
Another two yeras with good A.I and ball physics. Rest is poor.
FIFA 08 - new engine with good pace, maybe to slow, nice graphics,something fresh and in particular good basic for the futere. Good online.
FIFA 09 - another huge step in animations and collision system. Better ball physics but still to floaty. Nice grapahics and big step forward. Good online with 11 v 11.
FIFA 10 - 360 degree, better ball physics, upgrade animations and collisions, A.I much better for keepers + animaytions for them etc.
FIFA 11 - they try make better individuality but still not good, better graphisc, better turfs, pace good.
FIFA 12 - new collision engine with a lot of bugs but technically looks superb. Nice new camera, a lot new animations and upgrade old one, upgrade ball physics, new commentary and good audio + chants like all Fifa's.
Summary:
They know want they want and they do it.
Compare this to ways how two games evolved in this generation of consoles. FIFA change things for better, and adds, upgrade new one. They have one idea and don't change mentality of the game. Pes don't know what they want. In one game they created freedom passing in another adds automatic arcade style. What is going on? Why they dont' continue good thigs? and change it for bad? I don't know. That's all.
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Flaw3d Genius
Banned
Seems they would rather Fifa their game up than trying to inovate themselves.
The bars for me this year are truly awful and i couldnt find one i was happy with which lead me to chop and change constantly. Konami need to get back on the ball and bring the rukkas to the boys.
curdstar
Premier League
- 19 September 2006
- PES4 Partick Thistle
@ Curstar
The problem is fella that most of the people banned on WENB are the articulate detailed guys who go into a game with a fine tooth comb, both good and bad. Why? Because we love PES lol, and probably play it a million hours more than Adam, it's these sort of people that have been excluded that you need on forums as much for healthy debate as for highlighting the problems. Healthy debate in Adam's eyes means sugar coating things. But of course Adam is a mini-celeb, and with that comes..... Now all you have on there is Janet and John kids, kissing arse left right and centre. Great, I suppose, if you want no fuss.
But the interesting thing is that from your podcast I get a sense that even Adam is getting pissed off and can now clearly see the flaws of the game. So why not just come out on the forums weeks ago and say what he thought (like in the podcast) instead of buttering things up and firing anyone who said anything bad about PES? Christ, WENB has become so precious and everything that a forum shouldn't be, like the EA forums of the last few years (although ironically THIS year, there seems to be much more intelligent debate and game bashing going on in there - which it's what it's all about isn't it, after all it's the consumers money).
I've already detailed in the past, and this doesn't give my opinion ANY more or less weight than anybody else, but having shelled out £110 on PES products this year, I think I'm entitled to an opinion. I think I'm entitled to go into as much or as little detail as possible to highlight the games problem areas (from my perspective) and good areas. If this steps on some toes in the hierarchy than fine, obviously the way WENB is run at the moment everyone (both mods/members) seem happy. So it may be best if the mouthy ones stay clear from old Goebbels over there, and just watch WENB from afar.....and bash the game on here
PS - PES is still a million times better than FIFA. Man had another go yesterday, Jesus, what a bad game. I'm top of the CM, with Liverpool, but get absolutely no joy in the game whatsoever, it's like moving grids continually, forever and ever. Christ how this game is so over-hyped, I'll never know. Await Placebo's response...
Really does make my skin crawl reading your posts. We've been here before. Your stubborness and unwillingness to actually see someones point is your weakness. It's been pulled up before on these boards even, not sure if it's pride or you really do have selective reading.
Your accusations at WENB are false and disrespectful. If you acted half as decent as you do on here on there, you'd never have been banned.
I think you'd be a true asset if you didn't weigh so much on your opinion, and at the same time show willingness to listen. I see you as a huge fan of yourself, and because of that your valid points are lost on me.
Oh well.
Edit:
This you wrote, by the way, is proof of just how much you are stubborn. You've been saying this forever, makes me laugh every time you write it:
"But the interesting thing is that from your podcast I get a sense that even Adam is getting pissed off and can now clearly see the flaws of the game. So why not just come out on the forums weeks ago and say what he thought (like in the podcast) instead of buttering things up and firing anyone who said anything bad about PES? Christ, WENB has become so precious and everything that a forum shouldn't be, like the EA forums of the last few years (although ironically THIS year, there seems to be much more intelligent debate and game bashing going on in there - which it's what it's all about isn't it, after all it's the consumers money)."
Adam has been annoyed with the game since September last year. Selective reading and a mixture of self love, means you'll never be an asset to only but yourself.
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