PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

DLC Question

I'm about to install the latest DLC(xbox) I have a large amount of my own stat edits was wondering if the DLC will overwrite my edits, is there a way round this? help would be much appreciated.
 
ccshopland said:
Pretty much, within 5 seconds of real time the CPU will hand possession over either by crazy AI dribbling, running the ball out of play when there are a dozen passing options available to it, or plain right just refusing to go back and sideways.
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Its a two way issue as well, when you have the ball you have all the time in the world to saunter about unopposed. It's not uncommon to pick the ball up with a full-back and carry the ball 50-60 yards, not through expert dribbling but just a lack of pressure.

Games are essentially a contest of attack vs defence, play only breaks up at the edge of the box, rather than the midfield to-and-fro you get in real life.
 
Flaw3d Genius said:
So it seems Neville does know what he's talking about :WHISTLE:
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Off-topic but that is not what happened tonight and to suggest so would be paying great disrespect to both teams efforts across two great games of football between the two.

Cavani was poor from the outset and it wasn't that Chelsea made him or Lavezzi poor, and more how they played their own game well while respecting the entirity of Napoli's threat.. Chelsea played well and took the opportunities that came to them clinically, helped greatly by Napoli's indecisive approach in key spells in the game. It was a fantastic cup tie overall and in no way as simplistic is uber-biased Neville would infer. He might have been a good player in his time but Neville is an ignorant simpleton whose attitude is similar to that of Sir David Richards.

To bring it back on topic he would be a disastrous addition to the series. The script and execution of the commentary is the problem with PES, not who is delivering it.
 
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I seem to remember Neville saying Napoli were a good team but have a terrible defence and if you can stop the trio they would win....no idea where you got him saying they were a bad team from. Tonight they stopped the trio and they won convincingly.

The guy really does know what he's talking about when it comes to football, he would make PES far better and would more than likely tell Konami what they have down on the page he's reading is alot of shite and would amend it! No messing with Gary he tells it how it is.
 
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Flaw3d Genius said:
I seem to remember Neville saying Napoli were a good team but have a terrible defence and if you can stop the trio they would win....no idea where you got him saying they were a bad team from. Tonight they stopped the trio and they won convincingly.

The guy really does know what he's talking about when it comes to football, he would make PES far better and would more than likely tell Konami what they have down on the page he's reading is alot of shite and would amend it! No messing with Gary he tells it how it is.
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Therein lies the problem - he doesn't tell it like it is and he did say Napoli were a poor team in 1st leg commentary and anyone with even a passing interest in football out with England would tell you Napoli are certainly not a poor team. Yep, Napoli are very last ditch at the back but Chelsea couldn't defend in first leg which he refused to acknowledge = not calling like it is.

Chelsea did not completely stop Napoli's offensive trio at all, or at least exclusively. They (rightfully) respected the entirety of the Napoli team and were able to cut off supply and chances and also found themselves opting to sit deep in spells in tonights game - they failed miserably after going two goals up with this approach, yet coped better in second ET period. Neville is a million miles away from the reality and just an ignorant, biased cretin, which makes him perfect for a job at Sky TV. Christ! Even former Sky ''expert'' Gray has been questioning Messi's recent achievements using the most backwards of logic - Bitter fool that he is.
 
curdstar said:
Therein lies the problem - he doesn't tell it like it is and he did say Napoli were a poor team in 1st leg commentary and anyone with even a passing interest in football out with England would tell you Napoli are certainly not a poor team. Yep, Napoli are very last ditch at the back but Chelsea couldn't defend in first leg which he refused to acknowledge = not calling like it is.

Chelsea did not completely stop Napoli's offensive trio at all, or at least exclusively. They (rightfully) respected the entirety of the Napoli team and were able to cut off supply and chances and also found themselves opting to sit deep in spells in tonights game - they failed miserably after going two goals up with this approach, yet coped better in second ET period. Neville is a million miles away from the reality and just an ignorant, biased cretin, which makes him perfect for a job at Sky TV. Christ! Even former Sky ''expert'' Gray has been questioning Messi's recent achievements using the most backwards of logic - Bitter fool that he is.
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Listen this is about PES getting better commentary not your dislike for commentators. Neville would improve it dramatically. It is painful to listen to the way the two currently go on in PES games. As i said before you and Adam would do a better job than the current two.
 
Flaw3d Genius said:
Listen this is about PES getting better commentary not your dislike for commentators. Neville would improve it dramatically. It is painful to listen to the way the two currently go on in PES games. As i said before you and Adam would do a better job than the current two.
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I'll take that as a compliment :D

Who knows, with Konami's awful scripting and execution maybe we will be more to your liking ;)

I am jesting here by the way; not looking to antagonise. Let's try to put previous behind us. Much we clearly disagree on yet possibly much we may agree on.
 
Martin Tyler and Alan Smith would sound terrible on PES. Hard as it would be to believe for anyone who hadn't experienced it first-hand, Mark Lawrenson's PES punditry was significantly worse than his real life efforts.

It's the way it's done, not the people themselves, that are responsible for Konami's efforts with the commentary - otherwise Jon Champion and Jim Beglin would be giving a performance that matches their TV work in tone and content.

You get the feeling that Konami write the commentary script themselves, or severely limit what the two can say in order to fit with the other commentary languages. Also, take Champion shouting "THE HEADEEEEEER!!" - it only sounds as awful as it does because PES frequently uses it for tame efforts that drift off into the distance. If the header went in, and that drawn out last syllable carried through to the crowd and players celebrating, then it wouldn't be nearly as bad (though it would be quite annoying because it's so distinctive).
 
curdstar said:
I'll take that as a compliment :D

Who knows, with Konami's awful scripting and execution maybe we will be more to your liking ;)

I am jesting here by the way; not looking to antagonise. Let's try to put previous behind us. Much we clearly disagree on yet possibly much we may agree on.
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Oh aye listening to the podcast it's clear we agree alot and on what should happen with PES 2013.

Also it is the way Konami script things but c'mon Beglin is woeful a poor mans Andy Townsend and that is saying something lol.
 
romagnoli said:
Martin Tyler and Alan Smith would sound terrible on PES. Hard as it would be to believe for anyone who hadn't experienced it first-hand, Mark Lawrenson's PES punditry was significantly worse than his real life efforts.

It's the way it's done, not the people themselves, that are responsible for Konami's efforts with the commentary - otherwise Jon Champion and Jim Beglin would be giving a performance that matches their TV work in tone and content.

You get the feeling that Konami write the commentary script themselves, or severely limit what the two can say in order to fit with the other commentary languages. Also, take Champion shouting "THE HEADEEEEEER!!" - it only sounds as awful as it does because PES frequently uses it for tame efforts that drift off into the distance. If the header went in, and that drawn out last syllable carried through to the crowd and players celebrating, then it wouldn't be nearly as bad (though it would be quite annoying because it's so distinctive).
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Totally agree. It's the contrived feeling to the commentary and out of place script that messes things up. Chauffeur Chsmpion and Lawrenson were allowed to talk in a relaxed manner like during a proper match then it wouldn't sound half as bad.

Getting any commentator to say "the order of the boot applied" is a sure way to get the audio wrong...
 
romagnoli said:
Martin Tyler and Alan Smith would sound terrible on PES. Hard as it would be to believe for anyone who hadn't experienced it first-hand, Mark Lawrenson's PES punditry was significantly worse than his real life efforts.

It's the way it's done, not the people themselves, that are responsible for Konami's efforts with the commentary - otherwise Jon Champion and Jim Beglin would be giving a performance that matches their TV work in tone and content.
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Yep. That is pretty much the long and short of it.

romagnoli said:
You get the feeling that Konami write the commentary script themselves, or severely limit what the two can say in order to fit with the other commentary languages. Also, take Champion shouting "THE HEADEEEEEER!!" - it only sounds as awful as it does because PES frequently uses it for tame efforts that drift off into the distance. If the header went in, and that drawn out last syllable carried through to the crowd and players celebrating, then it wouldn't be nearly as bad (though it would be quite annoying because it's so distinctive).
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I actually think both PES and FIFA fall short (though FIFA's commentary is clearly better/more ambitious) and they don't get the balance right.

Regarding the whole ''HEADEEEER!!'' thing, what both games miss here is how commentators can say such (even when the effort ends up tame, but it tends to be the players name called out in such fashion in real commentary) but they are quick to correct and comment, even wandering off into a little discussion. An example here would be a cross in which Messi meets with his head, a commentator going ''MESSIIIIII!!'', it either missing the target or not being well executed, then the commentary lead maybe saying ''Great opportunity that. He's not known as being a specialist with his head but he has scored a few in his time, none more memorable than that which he scored in the 2009 Champions League Final; he'll be disappointed with himself there''.

I know FIFA do the whole talking about the stadium and history but it is awkwardly implemented. They also of course venture ever so slightly into voodoo territory in CM but it is still light years behind 2k Sports efforts. I'm not sure if the commentary in these games should be integrated in such a way that it tricks the ear so to speak - have the duo essentially get into a relative conversation about the game and the teams taking part but the actual football being played getting in the way if that makes sense. NBA2K12 excels in this area as the commentary is one big conversation but they do pick up on the games goings on consistently and even return to a discussion point or starting a new thread of discussion based on the on-court events.

I think PES' Champions League mode is a great place for similar to happen; load the commentary with discussion about players, teams and history (past and more recent) and sprinkle it with immediate in-game stuff such as stats. Even have them talk about the strengths/weakness of a formation and site teams who use it effectively, or perhaps talk about the ball being used or whatever in general discussion. The ''live'' comment could be focused on player with possession, ''good pass/dribble/shot/tackle/skill/save'', ''dangerous when he has the ball in these areas'', ''wand of a left foot this lad'' etc.

Maybe more comment could be made relative to a players stats/index cards, so for example when Iniesta is on the ball they could say '' he is a talismanic pressence for the team, who can pick a pass and has an eye for goal'' and if the commentary needs to break into something else due to what happens live oon the field, it just does, maybe bridged with an ''oooh'' or something. Yeah it might sound a little corny but it would at least be informative within the context of the gameplay.
 
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I don't even know why you're so concerned about commentary anyway, a comprehensive effort into capturing the crowd atmosphere audio would be infinitely more immerse then any high profile punditry.

It's not even that difficult to capture. All they need is microphones at a range of stadia of varying sizes, sampling enough variation in cheers/applause/dissent/jeers which can then be triggered by in-game events. Getting that essence of atmosphere is so much more important than unique team chants, which themselves sound horribly artificial on a loop in between silences.

All that's needed is an array of ambiances specific to the club's origin/stature, then have an assortment of muffled chanting that can be interpreted as support for which team you are using.
 
dannyfc2 said:
I don't even know why you're so concerned about commentary anyway, a comprehensive effort into capturing the crowd atmosphere audio would be infinitely more immerse then any high profile punditry.

It's not even that difficult to capture. All they need is microphones at a range of stadia of varying sizes, sampling enough variation in cheers/applause/dissent/jeers which can then be triggered by in-game events. Getting that essence of atmosphere is so much more important than unique team chants, which themselves sound horribly artificial on a loop in between silences.

All that's needed is an array of ambiances specific to the club's origin/stature, then have an assortment of muffled chanting that can be interpreted as support for which team you are using.
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Good points and such attention would certainly offer many a fine solution.
 
In fact, someone was telling me that they had captured themselves, a whole bunch of chants by attending actual games in Italy.

I'm sure Konami could work off the back of community efforts if they wanted to.
 
dannyfc2 said:
I don't even know why you're so concerned about commentary anyway, a comprehensive effort into capturing the crowd atmosphere audio would be infinitely more immerse then any high profile punditry.

It's not even that difficult to capture. All they need is microphones at a range of stadia of varying sizes, sampling enough variation in cheers/applause/dissent/jeers which can then be triggered by in-game events. Getting that essence of atmosphere is so much more important than unique team chants, which themselves sound horribly artificial on a loop in between silences.

All that's needed is an array of ambiances specific to the club's origin/stature, then have an assortment of muffled chanting that can be interpreted as support for which team you are using.
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Instead of wanting one or the other surly Konami should be capable of both? Again i point to the Konami baseball devs.
 
Flaw3d Genius said:
Instead of wanting one or the other surly Konami should be capable of both? Again i point to the Konami baseball devs.
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That's a nice point, share the best technology within corporation ... but I've recently stumbled upon very interesting article about Japanese corporate culture ...

http://bitmob.com/articles/how-japanese-corporate-bureaucracy-sabotages-creativity (what a freak coincidence, site seems to be down as I type this ... it worked quite fine yesterday, hopefully it will be back online soon)

All of us (western civilisation) take it for granted that technology should be shared within company. It makes sense to us. After all, aren't all EA's current gen sports titles using the same base technology? Aren't all EA studios developing different sports titles one big happy family when it comes to sharing technology?

Japanese corporate mentality seems to be different - it's more likely to be 'each tribe for itself', instead of 'one big happy and technology-sharing family'. Maybe we shouldn't be referring to Konami in general when it comes to PES, but KONAMI PES division.
Konami beseball division developed better technology. If someone from Baseball dept. would even like to propose some kind of cooperation, how many months or even years of red tape bullshit (judging by that article) would it take to complete that initiative?

Then we all saw what FOX engine is capable of and started to fantasize how good some future PES could look. Some division within Konami developed FOX engine, it wasn't PES department for sure. However hard it is for a westerner to imagine or understand, is it really impossible that PES dept. perhaps won't be allowed to use FOX engine? That they may have to develop their own next-gen tech?
 
If the CEO of a company was worth the money they were getting paid, they'd make sure something as good as the FOX engine is shared amongst everyone in the corporation that wants to use it. If not, they can wear the loss of sales.

But anyway, I have to disagree with the comments about lack of buildup play and lack of pressure. I have persisted with my Master League. Now in my 2nd season. I play 15 minute matches on Professional level with the 1.03 patch and -1 gamespeed on the Long camera.

Whenever the whiteboard meeting pre-game tells me the other team play a quick counter, high pressure game, I have been punished for trying to play out from the back. 3 guys up front always hounding me to win the ball back. From time to time I get teams that let me carry the ball along the wing or through the middle but I can't run all the way through on goal as some people are getting at.

I have an impression that people play too direct, too quick and too many forward passes. Yep, it's a game and you don't want to knock the ball around for most of the game, waiting for a good opportunity and score 1 or 2 goals a game....BUT if you play that way to an extent and close off the passing options well when you lose the ball, tell me how much of a difference there is! The main side effect I've seen is that there's a ridiculous hoofing the ball away animation when you make the AI run out of easy passing options. Sometimes they clear the ball sideways out of play lol...other than that, there IS definitely a difference in gameplay coming from the AI opposition.

I'd record some gameplay but I don't think anyone cares lol
 
Are there ANY nvidia settings that actually make this fucking game playable online?

I would have to play with a pair on boxing gloves on for the controls to be any more unresponsive!!!
 
The Japanese know they are in a bad place and way behind the rest of the gaming world.

Last year, Keiji Inafune wasn't shy about telling everyone about the dire state of Japanese gaming. And that hasn't changed.

Former Capcom boss and Comcept founder Inafune spoke to GameSpot about how Japanese developers still aren't up to snuff; in fact, he said since his statements, he thinks things might've gotten worse. Said Inafune:

"I had wanted Japanese games to be better. But looking back on the last couple of years, it hasn't changed. I had hoped it would have gone better, but because it hasn't changed, it's probably gotten worse. But compared to when I started being vocal, now everybody knows for sure that it's not in a good state. They just haven't come to a conclusion as to what they should do, so I'm still hoping it will be better."

That's the silver lining, really. Everyone's attention was drawn to the seemingly obvious fact that even the best Japanese franchises were starting to pale in comparison to the Western masterpieces. Previously, another outspoken gaming personality, Tomonobu Itagaki, suggested that budgets simply aren't high enough for Japanese game projects.

Inafune also reiterated his belief that Japanese devs have to learn how to go global, and they're not really trying:

"There are a lot of specific problems, but a good example would be that this is GDC. It's the Game Developers Conference. Out of the Japanese creators, how many of the major ones are here at the show? It's very limited, and that itself states that Japan is not taking global business seriously. They should be here at the show, giving sessions and mingling with the rest of the world more, intentionally. But I don't see that, and that's one of the biggest problems...that Japan is not looking at the global perspective. We all know for sure that we have to go global, but the actions are not there."

Personally, I think what we really need is for Hideo Kojima to come through big time with MGS5 (and maybe that secret project, too), and for The Last Guardian to make an appropriately large splash. That could help a lot but of course, there's still a long ways to go...
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http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/10816.html


Inafune: Japanese devs have lost desire to win
Inafune headlines solution at GDC.

Japanese game developers have lost their desire to win, according to Comcept boss and former Capcom legend Keiji Inafune.

Speaking at his Game Developers Conference panel, “The Future of Japanese Games,” Inafune said (via Develop), “There is a conscience and desire to win missing. We, the Japanese, have forgotten all about that. Back in the day we grew used to winning.

“At some point these winners became loosers, and not acknowledging or accepting that has lead to the tragic fate of Japanese games.”

Inafune believes the Japanese games industry is very “closed minded,” and headlined a solution to re-open it.

“There is something you must do to win,” he said towards Japanese developers. “You must acknowledge your loss, and start over again. We are humans, and have our own pride, but we cannot win if we keep that pride up.

“We must believe ‘I will win’.”

Inafune acknowledged the past for what it was – a period of dominance for the Japanese games industry – but lamented they’re now “just great, great memories.”

He argued to succeed, Japanese developers must challenge themselves, be determined, and not simply rely on existing IP, but to push and create new brands.

“If you pour a lot of effort into a game with a brand what happens?,” Inafune asked the audience. “Easy,” he answered. “You will be that much of a success.

“Perhaps the folks who are now running the show in the Japanese games industry are those who simply jumped on a bandwagon. The creations that measured up to global standards were crafted by our predecessors.

Inafune closed his argument with a warning.

“The Japanese video games industry must realise the need to develop our brands, and me must do so now. It will be too late when our brands have no equity left. Time is running out. We should have realised this when I made those statements two years ago.

“What I know for sure is that I will win. I will take on hardships to win.”
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http://gematsu.com/2012/03/inafune-japanese-devs-have-lost-desire-to-win


Hopefully Seabass and co are now trying their damdest to make PES 2013 the game we all want, they certainly seem to be taking so much feedback from the west from various websites so no more excuses.
 
I don't think the gaming industry is healthy all-round, in terms of tech the Japanese are behind, but for depth and creativity they're still ahead (see Dark Souls)

Every year there's just another installment of a popular franchise, the likes of COD/BF/AC/FIFA/FM. These five series probably make up at least 75% of all annual sales, and every year they get away with releasing a game with the bare minimum in improvement. The barriers of entry are just too much for new competitors. The blockbuster titles cost huge amounts in advertisement, it's just impossible for a new entrant to gain any sort of market share.

These titles are so ingrained into consumers skulls, that there's no incentive to innovate the formula or add new features. All the focus goes to setting the hype machine into motion, and thats enough to secure purchase. Any outrage over the quality of the product is soon forgotten the time next years release rolls in.

Has any genre progressed in terms of gameplay in the last 5 years? COD:M3 is no different to the 2007 release. Deus Ex had less interaction and depth then in 2001. AC is the same game in a new location. It's a joke.
 
I've played Dark Souls and nothing really jumps out at me that hasnt been done before. It reminds me alot of early gaming which was hard difficulty with alot of repartition. Most gamers will tell you Skyrim or the Witcher 2 are far better than Demon Souls or Dark Souls. Personally i liked Dark Souls but it's not the second coming that some like to shout about.

Japan has tons of games that get updated alot also which create huge sales in Japan infact in Japan is far worse for it.....

Final Fantasy? What's that on 13 or 14 now?
Tekken
PES
Dynasty Warriors
Street Fighter
Monster Hunter
Pokemon
Mario
Sonic
Zelda
Res Evil
Dragon Ball Z

The list is endless, It's good that the Japanese realise they are so far behind the rest of the world but are they really wanting to do something about it??? My money is they will keep churning out the same rubbish and in the next 5 years we will have Final Fantasy 18 and Monster Hunter 425 with the 32nd Pokemon game as they sell incredibly well which pays the bills.

As for a genre that has progressed in the last 5 years.... Racing. Forza 4, GT5, r-factor, GTR, i-Racing etc etc are all far better than what we had 5 years ago so much so that it's night and day.
 
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This is why I never blame the PES team. What can they do when the big boss of Konami has them on a limited budget? They can only do so much really.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
If the CEO of a company was worth the money they were getting paid, they'd make sure something as good as the FOX engine is shared amongst everyone in the corporation that wants to use it. If not, they can wear the loss of sales.

But anyway, I have to disagree with the comments about lack of buildup play and lack of pressure. I have persisted with my Master League. Now in my 2nd season. I play 15 minute matches on Professional level with the 1.03 patch and -1 gamespeed on the Long camera.

Whenever the whiteboard meeting pre-game tells me the other team play a quick counter, high pressure game, I have been punished for trying to play out from the back. 3 guys up front always hounding me to win the ball back. From time to time I get teams that let me carry the ball along the wing or through the middle but I can't run all the way through on goal as some people are getting at.

I have an impression that people play too direct, too quick and too many forward passes. Yep, it's a game and you don't want to knock the ball around for most of the game, waiting for a good opportunity and score 1 or 2 goals a game....BUT if you play that way to an extent and close off the passing options well when you lose the ball, tell me how much of a difference there is! The main side effect I've seen is that there's a ridiculous hoofing the ball away animation when you make the AI run out of easy passing options. Sometimes they clear the ball sideways out of play lol...other than that, there IS definitely a difference in gameplay coming from the AI opposition.

I'd record some gameplay but I don't think anyone cares lol
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Calcio, I understand your point, but the difference many are making is this - why should the human player have to bend over backwards and bend to the CPU all the time....why can't I impinge MY tactics onto the CPU? Why do we have to look at this white board and change tactics to suit the CPU's way of playing?

I'll tell you why, because the game is badly designed, with the human having to play an endless game of possession against a solid and well formed CPU defence (sometimes up to 75% possession) whilst the CPU have seemingly everything in its favour...

1) CPU scripting
2) Blistering counter attack
3) Every player and his dog dribbling directly and quickly
4) CPU making your players move position (lofted wing through ball, cross, header)
5) Insane dribbling reflexes
etc etc.

So even before we begin, there is not an even footing, the CPU have almost everything in its favour.

For me now, it is not a question of whether I can 'beat a game, but a question of what is more real!

So the game pans out in one of two ways -

1) You can play a possession game against the CPU but you will have to patient for up to 75% possession against them to get that one opening in the gamne

or

2) You fight fire with fire and opt for countering the CPU with spammed long through balls and aerial balls on the counter attack, like the CPU, looking to get from back to front as quickly as possible

Point 1 makes the game an almost unbearable grind, and point 2 makes the game an arcade fest

THIS IS THE PROBLEM!
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
The main side effect I've seen is that there's a ridiculous hoofing the ball away animation when you make the AI run out of easy passing options. Sometimes they clear the ball sideways out of play lol...other than that, there IS definitely a difference in gameplay coming from the AI opposition.
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you have inadvertantly revealed a fundamental problem with the gameplay:

So when you play effective, diligent defense, protecting space and cutting off passing lanes, the cpu will often just hoof the ball out of play because they have no options...and yet, they did have an option. They could have passed it backwards to the CBs and started their offensive move again (they did this on 2011) or they could have passed it all the way back to the GK to have him sweep it to the other side or they could have switched sides directly. But they don't do that because it its not in the cpu gameplay.

Any one who has watched ten minutes of football understands this option of last resort. The fact that the cpu rarely does this produces route 1 football, directly forward, incredibly repetitive, absurd, childish gameplay with disproportionate possession ratios.

Good day!
 
yeah and not to mention the number of times online and offline the ai of players on your team epecially in defensive situation back away from the ball or run away from it, its ridiculous i can understand defensive errors but players running away from the ball does not happen in real life. there is far too much scripting a times.
some games feel as though the outcome of the game has been decided win lose or draw even before the first kick.
like the number of times my striker has had an open net a couple of yards out but the game will not let me select him and ai makes him back away from the ball or stand stationary.
when the scripting is less evident it plays a good game but sometimes when its ramped up its almost unplayable and damned fustrating.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
If the CEO of a company was worth the money they were getting paid, they'd make sure something as good as the FOX engine is shared amongst everyone in the corporation that wants to use it. If not, they can wear the loss of sales.

But anyway, I have to disagree with the comments about lack of buildup play and lack of pressure. I have persisted with my Master League. Now in my 2nd season. I play 15 minute matches on Professional level with the 1.03 patch and -1 gamespeed on the Long camera.

Whenever the whiteboard meeting pre-game tells me the other team play a quick counter, high pressure game, I have been punished for trying to play out from the back. 3 guys up front always hounding me to win the ball back. From time to time I get teams that let me carry the ball along the wing or through the middle but I can't run all the way through on goal as some people are getting at.

For me this game can be so like what I see every week in real life its uncanny.

I have an impression that people play too direct, too quick and too many forward passes. Yep, it's a game and you don't want to knock the ball around for most of the game, waiting for a good opportunity and score 1 or 2 goals a game....BUT if you play that way to an extent and close off the passing options well when you lose the ball, tell me how much of a difference there is! The main side effect I've seen is that there's a ridiculous hoofing the ball away animation when you make the AI run out of easy passing options. Sometimes they clear the ball sideways out of play lol...other than that, there IS definitely a difference in gameplay coming from the AI opposition.

I'd record some gameplay but I don't think anyone cares lol
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I play on Superstar 15 minute matches and I agree with what you say here although this needs to be built on further for pes 2013. I think the cpu AI is fantastic, just a shame the game can rely on cheap tricks and balancing acts to make it harder, despite this I'm loving the game more than ever! Just despise it when you have those games where everything conspires against you and you almost have to "out game" the cpu. The challenge of superstar has me hooked and the level on concentration needed is on another level to any other pes.

I see so much in this game the more I play that is so much like real life its uncanny
 
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