ccshopland
Premier League
- 4 January 2011
I give up on these forums lol, I really do.
Happy playing guys.
Happy playing guys.
PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......
- Thread starter Jimmy G-Force
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #14,192
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
I thought all of Messi's 5 goals the other night were all straight out of the PES Scrapbook. His cheeky little chips I've scored many times on this years version, (3/4 Power R2's), and his placed shots coming square alongside the box were perfect R2's. Even the R2 open goal angled tap-in was spot on.
Jimmy, any idea how to do them L1+shot (lob) of old PES? I can't seem to lift them enough off the ground no matter the power.
Like this:
YouTube - PES 2008 Lob.
Like this:
YouTube - PES 2008 Lob.
jammiedodger
Premier League
I find the slower you are running increases the elevation of the lob shot.
- Thread starter
- #14,195
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
Spot on. You need to get the 'set-up' technically correct. Don't sprint, jog at best and try and initiate the lob when the ball is very close to your players feet so he has to dig it out. You can use R2 with 3/4 power or L1.
It was a little unrealistic in older PES games with regards how much you could lob the ball and get it up and down from a shorter distance. I'd still like to see this available, but they NEED to do it by having a 'Scoop' animation. That's the only real technique in football that will give you that type of shot. The player would need to be standing as well, or at the very most a slight/slow jog.
makky
League 1
Yes definitely.
Another one that stuck in the mind was Ashley Young's second goal against Tottenham the other week. Very similar to the one he scored at Old Trafford earlier in the season.
I was at a friend's house watching that game. I said that goal had R2 all over it. They looked at me like I had lost the plot
.
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It is with great regret that I end my ML with Ajax after the transfer window in the second season. This is the second ML I've ended during the second season.I've managed to forgive all the plentiful minor problems with the game (it is a game after all, I am forgiving after all). But my affair with this iteration of PES has come to an end, at least for now. The reasons are fundamental, thus I list them:
1) Playing defense is incredibly boring (but not hard). Things happen so fast, there are so many runs, that playing any kind of strategic, positional defense is nearly impossible. Strategy is negated by the CPU's directness. My previous posts about defense are meaningless in the face of the the CPU's directness. Trying to play defense that way means that, in the end, I don't play defense. I can feel myself trying so hard to not get in the CPU's way, to let my uncontrolled teammates deal with the CPU. I can't remember the last time I consciously controlled a CB because I know that if I do, I will concede space to the dribbler and probably a goal. In other words, I can win (I'm second in the league) and play defense just so long as I really don't play defense, especially in the box.
2) PES 2012 emphasizes dribbling over passing (while PES 2011 emphasized passing over dribbling). I never would have thought it, but emphasizing dribbling, and technical skill, has created a game of individuals instead of a team.
3) Efficiency is simply too great, whether crossing, headers, dribbling, or feints.
4) There are simply too many runs and overlaps. Everyone is running everywhere all the time. While in previous iterations, you hoped for a run or triggered a run, in this version everyone is running all the time. It simply defies logic and makes gameplay too fast.
5) Technique is simply too great for almost all players. During the winter transfer window I realized that it didn't matter much who I tried to acquire. Yes there were special players, but basically everyone with a rating over 60 could dribble and make frequent runs. I really didn't need a box-to-box CMF because all my CMFs were entering both boxes and running all the time. Almost all my players were effective crossers. I ended up, for example, not understanding the "offensive sideback" player card when, it turns out, all of my SBs overlap almost all the time. I don't understand the "enforcer" card when most of the time my CMFs never stop the CPU dribbler in midfield. I just don't get it...why should I care about all that? What is the point of the darting run when all of my WF and SMF make runs all the time (they all seem darting, too)?
Good day!
Edit:
I hope to return to 2012 someday. Perhaps I just need a break, some time away. I'm just bored of it, I guess, in the end.
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Chimps-with-quiffs
Champions League
- 11 August 2003
I watched the first 5 minutes and agree, but can see straight away why it looks better. From what I saw, all the games are day time and played on green turf that doesn't look washed out. As well as this there is bright ad-boards around the pitch. All of these things make the game look so much better and are simple touches that should be in the released version. Add to that the game play looking smoother, which is easily done and you have a game looks way ahead of pes or FIFA
This video has convinced me to get the pc version of this years game and have a crack at it
Just reading the comments. I am not completely up with the pc version, but see it references PES-edit patch, yair and jenkey's tool. Is that what most on a pc are using?
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AntrAcsA
Banned
- 8 November 2006
Before I thought of Konami should not rush to make new PES engine for PS3 and Xbox 360, must wait the next generation consoles, but after I'm follow GDC 2012 and am quite confused. Several companies,BIG companies are developing new engines as the cry engine 3, KARA by Sony and others engines by Nvidia for the current generation consoles, this totally contradicts with the sentiment and rumors of a new generation of consoles. Apparently, soon, at least in the next 2, 3 or more years will have not a new generation of consoles but a new generation of engines, which also is not that bad.I realized that ,if from Konami don't generate a new engine in PES, even for current consoles would be a fatal mistake, even for PES 2014 will be very late and pointless.
It is seen that football fans refuse to buy PES 2012, this means that if PES 2013 is an improved version of PES 2012 will be just as bad sales, no matter how good the game or not, this is no longer relevant.
People want this
YouTube - Project KARA (tech demo from Quantic Dream) [RUS SUB]
Or this :
YouTube - Nvidia GDC 2012 cam video #1
or
YouTube - Nvidia GDC 2012 cam video #2
and
YouTube - CryEngine 3 GDC 2012: Tech Trailer (Cam)
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pesedit sucks for many many reasons... i am using smoke patch, it is fantastic... pc version is def the way to go...
where the heck did he get those stadiums!!! while i love the pc version, getting all the stadiums and such seems overwhelming...
Chimps-with-quiffs
Champions League
- 11 August 2003
I played on the PC for years and loved all the editing that can be done. My girlfriend hated me being in another room all of the time and I got sick of bringing my PC into the sitting room to play anyone, so I switched to the PS3.
The ability to edit edit stadium turf and adboard's makes the game look so much better. They could literally spend ages getting animation spot on, but with a ugly turf and shit lighting the game will look pants.
curdstar
Premier League
- 19 September 2006
- PES4 Partick Thistle
Neville is an ignorant know nothing or at least his TV persona is such. Aye, all Chelsea had to do against Napoli was to stop Lavezzi and Cavani and they would have won 3 or 4 nil and yes, Napoli are a ''bad'' team.
I realized that ,if from Konami don't generate a new engine in PES, even for current consoles would be a fatal mistake, even for PES 2014 will be very late and pointless.
It is seen that football fans refuse to buy PES 2012, this means that if PES 2013 is an improved version of PES 2012 will be just as bad sales, no matter how good the game or not, this is no longer relevant.
People want this
YouTube - Project KARA (tech demo from Quantic Dream) [RUS SUB]
Or this :
YouTube - Nvidia GDC 2012 cam video #1
or
YouTube - Nvidia GDC 2012 cam video #2
and
YouTube - CryEngine 3 GDC 2012: Tech Trailer (Cam)
It is absolutely relevant how good a game is.
Flaw3d Genius
Banned
Your not suggesting that the current 2 are better than the Sky Sports 2 i mentioned? lol I'd rather have you and Adam commentating and that's saying something considering how much rubbish you's talk on those podcasts.
This year Konami they need to get with the times on the sound and get it in the same league as other sports games. If Seabass and co are unable to recreate anything decent then they should get the Konami baseball team in to help them. No more excuses.
This year Konami they need to get with the times on the sound and get it in the same league as other sports games. If Seabass and co are unable to recreate anything decent then they should get the Konami baseball team in to help them. No more excuses.
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fantomas23
League 1
- 26 July 2003
is anyone HAPPY that they've neglected updating copa liba teams with the march dlc update
cr381veconcepts
Non-League
- 19 December 2010
Yes, Jimmy is spot on here. Also you should try and approach the ball at a 45 degree angle, so your player strikes it side on. So for a right footed player, if the ball is in the center of the pitch, you will approch the ball from the left, and you run in the direction of the right coner flag, accross the ball allowing the player to wrap his foot around the ball
Flaw3d Genius
Banned
Cant see to many caring outside South America, much like not many will care we didnt get the Japanese League.
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curdstar
Premier League
- 19 September 2006
- PES4 Partick Thistle
It still should be getting attention though. It is a licensing issue but they need to find ways to navigate round such issues. Also, as much as it is no biggie, I would welcome the J-League content as the upshot is a fully licensed competition with two divisions and teams who are a collectively a level down from most European sides meaning potentially more interesting games. We can but hope that the J - League DLC is a test bed for future titles.
Flaw3d Genius
Banned
Aye i would of liked the J-League myself but lets face it it's only the hardcore that spend time on PES forums that is really going to want it Mr Casual wouldnt give a monkeys.
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
For those complaining that the CPU don't keep the ball enough, I've noticed that even with the really direct teams, if you defend diligently, you do see CPU player in possession change his option and either passing it sideways or playing a hit and hope ball because he's been forced into no other option. The hardest part I find is working out which player or passing lane you will cover and which you will leave the AI controlled defender to cover. Sometimes you can cause confusion between a couple of players and they both leave a space for the opposition to exploit.
But, when it works, the game does play out with a lot less directness from the AI. You may still get guys run at you but if you can get a foot in properly and win the ball, you will do well to moving towards getting the upper hand.
But, when it works, the game does play out with a lot less directness from the AI. You may still get guys run at you but if you can get a foot in properly and win the ball, you will do well to moving towards getting the upper hand.
curdstar
Premier League
- 19 September 2006
- PES4 Partick Thistle
I would agree with that but would venture that it is these little goodwill gestures to the committed fan base - regardless of how they eventually take to the game - that should be explored.
Even if much of the known issues with PES2012 were to be improved/fixed, I wouldn't say PES2013 would be the perfect football game but it could be a very, very good one. If this year is not the year of new tech, then I would say that it should at least be rammed full of improvements based on fan feedback, along with those goodwill gestures.
Personally, I am hoping that PES2013 proves to be the anti-FIFA for all the right reasons. Of course I would take EA's tech but I do think that such a tech focus from EA compromises - or limits - what they can do with AI and other factors such as player/team individuality that goes beyond them not being arsed and could have everything to do with hardware or even engine limitations. I actually think EA's tech for FIFA is great for realistic movement for any game but maybe not best suited for an all out sports simulation that needs player and team individuality to play a massive part.
Gary Paterson commented a couple of years ago that there are limitations with FIFA's gameplay given the tech route they have pursued and someone else on the EA team also commented on how many stats in their game are completely redundant. No excuse for PES to be as far behind in this generation as it has been when it comes to tech mind. I would say they should be looking at NBA2K12 for inspiration in tech over EA as 2K's system allows for stats, individuality and huge levels of game customisation to be apparent that simply isn't found in FIFA.
Flaw3d Genius
Banned
It shouldnt be anti Fifa or it shouldnt be pro Fifa it should just be the PES the PES we used to love playing everyday, Bring back the fluid gameplay that PES was renown for! None of this broken animations with awful transitions with the ball going through the players foot every dribble and having the ball attached to an invisible bit of string, Bring back the feeling of scoring goals, Bring back the perfect wide cam, Bring back good AI, Give us good sound that the Konami baseball team are able to recreate.
Your in the loop with Konami Curd Is asking for these things too much this day and age for Konami?
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dannyfc2
Premier League
- 9 June 2009
Gameplay Improvements
-Tone done the agility
-Bring back the distinction between agility and acceleration
-Bring back the Passers card
-Make passing differentials more pronounced
-More variation in crossing accuracy.
-Introduce a stat that influences tackling ability.
-Bring back the shot technique stat
-More random contextual errors (poor touches, miss-kicks) to further represent technical ability.
-More flexibility in playing styles than simply possession football.
If it wants to be a sim, then it needs to get the fundamentals right first.
-Tone done the agility
-Bring back the distinction between agility and acceleration
-Bring back the Passers card
-Make passing differentials more pronounced
-More variation in crossing accuracy.
-Introduce a stat that influences tackling ability.
-Bring back the shot technique stat
-More random contextual errors (poor touches, miss-kicks) to further represent technical ability.
-More flexibility in playing styles than simply possession football.
If it wants to be a sim, then it needs to get the fundamentals right first.
ccshopland
Premier League
- 4 January 2011
Totally agree.
Speed is all fine and good and there is definitely a place for it in the game. But speed alone doesn't win things. There needs to be much more emphasis on player individuality, especially in the technique side of things.
This year's game is based purely around speed.
There needs to be a trade off in tactics too. If the CPU want to park the bus, then fine, but introduce a stamina system that tires them out. Player positioning is so bad in PES for the human player that CPU counter attacks happen straight after prolonged possession periods all the time. It's not like this. Sometimes a team can counter at will, other times it gets blocked in and pressured by the raised defensive units (from midfield) of the attacking team. That's why it's not good policy to defend all the time. There is simply no let up of concentration, player positioning or anything from the CPU, let alone any stamina drops.
All the burdens fall on the human player.
Like I emphasis, this needs to be the year of the technical player. Also the CPU should be borne of the same variables as the human, why should the human have to toil hard for half a pitch when the CPU can just saunter up the field. One rule for one....
Balance is the key. Let's get those midfield battles going again, and let's have trade offs in playing styles, player ability, and tactics.
A simple and perfect list...
- Staff
- #14,218
Most important rule - whatever sim-related limitations will be imposed to human side, they have to be applied to CPU side too. Artificial override of pretty much everything and blatant stat boosting just to make it harder shouldn't be the way to program AI in second decade of 21st century.
Talking about CPU possession, I've been playing a PES 5 Master League as I can't play PES2012 right now.
In my first 4 games I had: 47%, 49%, 48% and 47% possession. Out-possessed every time. Small margins maybe but certainly better than constantly achieving 60-65% possession without even trying in PES2012.
It makes the games more varied and fun for sure, so I hope this will be a major thing Konami look at for 20123
In my first 4 games I had: 47%, 49%, 48% and 47% possession. Out-possessed every time. Small margins maybe but certainly better than constantly achieving 60-65% possession without even trying in PES2012.
It makes the games more varied and fun for sure, so I hope this will be a major thing Konami look at for 20123
ccshopland
Premier League
- 4 January 2011
Totally, totally agree with this and is something I've been harping on about forever. The fact is, the human player doesn't have to worry about how they build up attacks in relation to the clock ticking down. Pretty much, within 5 seconds of real time the CPU will hand possession over either by crazy AI dribbling, running the ball out of play when there are a dozen passing options available to it, or plain right just refusing to go back and sideways.
The old PES's you started sweating toward the end of the game especially if the CPU were winning 1-0. I remember distinctly a European game against Seville or Deportivo or something, and they went 1-0 up. Then with about 15 minutes of game time left I thought there's plenty of time here. They shielded it, kept it, worked me about the pitch, and I barely had a kick for the whole duration of the last part of the game.
It is getting better; I loved PES 2011 but I was getting regular 65-70 possession even on Top Player. I am probably averaging about 55-60% in PES 2012, but this is still way too high. There should be long periods of the game where you don't touch the ball, increasing the pressure on you with possession.