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PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Jimmy, have you played master league in Superstar difficulty? It is, for me , the most scripted, unenjoyable experience i´ve ever had in any Pes. It is bad. On Professional difficulty, with no assists, the cpu defends the same way, but attacks less cynically, wich makes the game a test to my patience and resolve only. I dearly miss what demo 2 had, wich was an active cpu AI playing to the strenghts/weaknesses of teams,demanding concentration when defending and imagination attacking. I play demo2 everyday on my 360, and as u say, possibilities are endless,but in the patched retail version i find there are less of those, and the AI does not behave nowhere near the same way. They seem two different games, being demo2 a better representation of football, in my opinion. And, yes DEmo 2 marvel, made me enjoy less the retail version again, just like last year, when the jap pes 11 version demo had me crazy with anticipation.
 
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Me!TheRaven said:
Jimmy, have you played master league in Superstar difficulty? It is, for me , the most scripted, unenjoyable experience i´ve ever had in any Pes. It is bad. On Professional difficulty, with no assists, the cpu defends the same way, but attacks less cynically, wich makes the game a test to my patience and resolve only. I dearly miss what demo 2 had, wich was an active cpu AI playing to the strenghts/weaknesses of teams,demanding concentration when defending and imagination attacking. I play demo2 everyday on my 360, and as u say, possibilities are endless,but in the patched retail version i find there are less of those, and the AI does not behave nowhere near the same way. They seem two different games, being demo2 a better representation of football, in my opinion. And, yes DEmo 2 marvel, made me enjoy less the retail version again, just like last year, when the jap pes 11 version demo had me crazy with anticipation.
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I agree. This is the dilemma I face and probably many others. I've done the professional thing, 'the most balanced' thing to death, and even with zero assists it's enjoyable but the possession stats in my favour as well as just the fact that I dominate every game ensure I have now option but to go Top Player or Superstar. And as you touched upon, both modes go ultra ballistic with their scripting when the game decides.

So..it's not a question of beating the game; I can do that. It's more a question of getting the game to resemble something real and even.

Now the demo's were excellent in the fact that there really was player individuality. I can distinctly remember these things, so I cannot be making it up -

1) When Spurs worked a lovely passing move moving my team around and engineered a one on one with Bale, it was squeeky bum time. Players like Bale, Robben, Ribbery etc were truly world class, and you would literally shit yourself everytime they had the ball one on one. You knew you'd get worked over.

2) Teams like Napoli playing lovely intricate passing between their three strikers, lovely stuff. You know what, I couldn't beat Napoli for around a week, they went like 15 games beating me or drawing against me, until finally I worked out a tactic to beat them and the joy was palpable.

3) When players like Rooney had the ball, he was weighty, impossible to hit off the ball, string as an ox, with stunning technique and shooting power. He would drop deep all the time and collect the ball, a real play maker. Players like Giggs skilful, and I distinctively remember Berbatov having a lovely languid technique.

4) Then there were dynamic players like Eto etc, visionaries like Sneijder.

In short, the game in only the two demos filled me with so much joy because of the player individuality, ball physics, shooting the whole lot, except for the keepers, which KOANMI promised all the time would get drastically changed for the finished game.

You weren't afraid of rubbish and adequate players in the demo because they played like their stats. BUT you were very afraid of special players.

Roll on PES 2012 - and now everyone and his dog can dribble like Messi, we all know thr saga with the patches etc, and generally we have quite a repetitive game.

Now it doesn't matter if Darren Fletcher, Nani, Rooney, Carrick etc is on the ball because they're all the same. Even Heskey, who I use as my main prime example, seems world class with his new found dribbling ability.

Again if it comes down to the question to have I enjoyed the game in part, then I cannot lie, as a game played in a certain way, then yes I can get enjoyment (combined with frustration) out of it. But if you asked me am I disappointed in the final product, then the answer will be yes also.
 
CssHopland, precisely! If i hadn´t touch the demos, i would be playing and partly enjoying pes 12, but i can´t cope with the mesmerizing differences between the products...
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Firstly, the reason why sales figures mean nothing to me is down to the fact, PES is catering for a different audience to the mainstrean. In years gone by, PES didnt have any real rival, Fifa was nothing compared to how it is today. Therefore, the majority played PES. Also, PES back then certainly didnt offer the kind of hardcore experience it does now. And obviously, that will never be to everyones liking, quite the opposite in fact. The reason PES has seen such a huge decline in sales is because for the most part, Fifa now offers a fantastic all-round package. Fifa is the game to play, it's the most accessible, and by far, the better looking title across so many levels. It's Fifa's success that has seen the demise of PES from a sales perspective.

Now, I personally take comfort in that. And the reason is, in my opinion, PES is offering something far more complex, which naturally won't be everybodies cup of tea. I appreciate that, it isnt a game that will give you instant gratification, and for that reason alone, the majority will always opt for something else. And they have, and sales figures rubberstamp that.

I dont want an old-gen PES, I want to move with the times, and this next-gen PES is offering something completely different. I would actually be more concerned if PES was the title murdering the sales numbers. That tells me that the game has moved to a more pick-up-and-play philosophy. I dont want that, I want it how it is, offering a more diverse and complex alternate.

There are millions of the PES hardcore, and for those players, PES is the only option. These players are certainly in the minority, but there is a belief and understanding that binds that collective. And make no mistake, the unwavering love of Konami isnt the primary driver, it's the appreciation of the product.

There is no doubt, for me, that PES has improved with every next-gen addition. So yes, with each year I will find the game better, and 'brilliant'. I never once stated that I actually enjoyed PES 2011 and it's offline play, it always bored me. PES 2010 was the last time I really enjoyed an offline ML, and even that was for only a couple of seasons. PES 2009 was a great for BAL, and again, I only played a few seasons of offline ML. PES 2008 isnt even worth talking about. I enjoyed PES 6 for what it was, but again, 4-5 seasons of offline ML and I was done. PES 5 was the last time I have played offline ML to the extent I am right now. I'm currently in my 5th season of my PES 2012 ML, and I barely feel like I have even started. It's wonderful experience, and one that has stopped me even venturing online, which is unheard of. I'm also having to build a team from scratch and mould them into my own philosophy, which is a superb system.

In all my years playing ML in PES, there has only ever been one season (PES 2010) where I havent gained promotion on Top Player to the EPL immediately. And then won the EPL and CL within a couple of seasons after that. This so isnt the case this time around, and that's exactly how it should be. Every game is a huge challenge, one where I need to dig deep, use varying strategies and formations to gain results. Hopefully this is the season that I will finally gain promotion, and even when/if that happens, the next step will be to merely stay relevant in the EPL, such is the emphasis on individuality. That's how a team like Boro in an ML should pan out, and that's what's happening. In my opinion, on the correct settings, this game is a masterpiece.

Edit -

And Pj, I do only play a couple of games PES 2012 and UFC 3, that's it really. I own UC3, GT5 etc etc, but these games hold no interest for me. I don't play PES because I have no other options, I play it because I absolutely love it, and I simply cannot get enough of it. And the more I learn about it, the more I uncover. It's depth, in my opinion, is limitless. So many variables.
Click to expand...
I agree with you completely here Jimmy.
You have to adjust your tactics and settings all the time to force the AI into playing differently, so that good results are achievable. Also, if you play fast counter attacking football they will, in turn give you a double dose of it straight back. Defending is absolutely key in 2012, whether it be human or AI opponents. Against the AI though it becomes even more crucial that you set it up right and defend patiently, while adjusting tactics and formations accordingly.
The same people that want the AI to adopt a more subtle attacking approach are the ones that would be saying that game is now to easy.
The developers have deliberately given us an intense, attack minded computer controlled AI so that we don't quickly become bored of the game.
Instead we have to work out how the fuck we are going to suppress their sometimes overwhelming attacking prowess and in turn score goals ourselves to win games.
I'm using Professional all assistance off btw.
My only concern is that while there are still millions of PES hardcore out there of our generation who keep this game alive. Are there still going to be millions growing up now who love the game as much as we do. Or will they all be sold out to FIFA?
Some excellent goals in the FL thread bud. Outstanding.
 
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makky said:
I agree with you completely here Jimmy.
You have to adjust your tactics and settings all the time to force the AI into playing differently, so that good results are achievable. Also, if you play fast counter attacking football they will, in turn give you a double dose of it straight back. Defending is absolutely key in 2012, whether it be human or AI opponents. Against the AI though it becomes even more crucial that you set it up right and defend patiently, while adjusting tactics and formations accordingly.
The same people that want the AI to adopt a more subtle attacking approach are the ones that would be saying that game is now to easy. The developers have deliberately given us an intense, attack minded computer controlled AI so that we don't quickly become bored of the game. Instead we have to work out how the fuck we are going to suppress their sometimes overwhelming attacking prowess and in turn score goals ourselves to win games.
I'm using Professional all assistance off btw.
My only concern is that while there are still millions of PES hardcore out there of our generation who keep this game alive. Are their still going to be millions growing up now who love the game as much as we do. Or will they all be sold out to FIFA?
Click to expand...

Err no. Lol.

I couldn't agree less.

It's not a question for me about becoming quickly bored, it's a question of the game portraying reality. It's not about results for me, because I can play the CPU at their game.

For me, to win in PES, you need to play the counter game at blistering pace. Anything else is asking for trouble.

A couple of things I'll highlight from your post, which in effect is what is wrong completely with the game.

1) You have to adjust your tactics and settings all the time to force the AI into playing differently - Why? Why can't I impinge MY tactics onto the CPU? I know there's give and take, but this game is all take, in that you have to bend to whatever game the CPU dictates.

2) Also, if you play fast counter attacking football they will, in turn give you a double dose of it straight back. - Again lol, why? What laws of physics or earthly mystical powers gives the CPU 'double powers' over the user, this is just silly. So we are in fact giving in to the fact and acknowledging that there is immediately a discrepancy between the CPU play and the human in terms of ability and penetration. I don't want the CPU to attack directly ALL the time; this isn't realistic. If it was realistic then everyone in world football would just get the ball and dribble. They don't, they pass backwards, sideways, forwards, dribble etc etc.

3) The same people that want the AI to adopt a more subtle attacking approach are the ones that would be saying that game is now to easy - Err, again no. We're in 2012 now, and arguably PES 5/6 had much better more realistic build up play than now. There were set rules which governed both the human player and the CPU. If the CPU had the ball in position in it would be wise enough to pass the ball backwards/sideways to continue the move, and not just plough on regardless arcade like straight on without any concern for losing possession.

In this iteration, it's as if all the CPU have a side bet as to who can hold onto the ball the shortest! PES 2011 had faults, but it was intelligent in the fact that you could apply pressure, cut off passing lanes, and gradually work the CPU back - like IRL. I've been playing the game since it was released and I honestly can't recall the CPU putting together more than ten passes and making me run after the ball.

4) Are their still going to be millions growing up now who love the game as much as we do. Or will they all be sold out to FIFA? - I'm a PES man, always have been. But there's no denying that the PES brigade are leaving in their droves. Is it because of accessibility, because PES has become too hardcore? I don't think so. I think it's because we are where we are in the world in terms of things on demand, and the expectation of the consumer. People were pissed off this year because of really shit keepers, blurry graphics (I mean WTF), scripted games, too much offensive dribbling etc etc. Things like the defensive play this year was just something that had to be learned, if people left because the game was too hard then that's their problem. But I can't deny that although there is a decent game in there, there are so many quirky, niggling, just downright shit things going on. Shooting not going where aimed, the issues with the patches to save face with the goalies (who were better ten years ago), the abysmal animations etc etc. I mean Jesus Christ, it's 2012, and who is doing the mo-cap for them...? Stephen f'kin Hawkins it looks like! Nobody kicks a ball like some of the animations, which are inconsistent together with the way the ball behaves.

You then either get the game where the CPU camp back in which it's depressing trying to break them down, or you get the constant see saw counter v counter v counter game against the top sides. The midfield in PES 2012 is just totally inconsequential. I could put 7 men in midfield, which in real life would provide a total pain to get through, but in PES it doesn't make a difference. The midfield is like a god dam ghost town, with hardly any battles going on.

Again I'll stress, it's not PES bashing for the sake of it. Buit what the hardcore want is a return of three things primarily -

1) Balance between attack and defence. It's way too arcade now. End to end slugfest. The midfield showdowns should be the show stopper for me, not some afterthought and crap obstacles but in the way of the speed merchants. I want the human and the CPU to be on an even keel in terms of natural laws of physics, governed only by stats, and team styles. Why the fk hasn't ANY game perfected Barcelona yet? Just get them to keep hold of the ball lol.

2) Individuality - straight forward. Heskey shouldn't dribble like Messi, but he should be strong. All non dribbling players (like 70% of footballers) should do what they do best, pass and move.

3) Control - give us control. If I want the shot to go right, then it should go right. I don't care if it goes slightly by the keeper, goes in the top corner/bottom corner, hits row Z, or goes into orbit with my player crumpled in a broken heap with a broken ankle cos the technique was all wrong; I don't care, as long as it goes right and NOT LEFT!!! And if I want to hit a long ball over the top which goes miles overhit for a goal kick, then I should be allowed to do it.

This is why the hardcore are leaving.
 
makky said:
My only concern is that while there are still millions of PES hardcore out there of our generation who keep this game alive. Are there still going to be millions growing up now who love the game as much as we do. Or will they all be sold out to FIFA?
Click to expand...

This is what I was getting at earlier. How many kids and teenagers play PES these days? Not many I'd wager.

I first started playing ISS at my mates house when he picked up ISS Deluxe for the SNES and the gameplay had me hooked. This was when I was 14 back in 1995. That game started an almost unbroken 15 year dedication to ISS and PES. When I was at school/sixth form/uni everyone into football played ISS, then PES. FIFA was still the higher selling mass-market game but PES had all the gameplay credentials. It was deep, with plenty of simulation aspects but anyone could pick up and play, and compete without having to know intricate button combos, advanced techniques and spend ages in the tactics menu. That was the beauty of the game. Just as importantly, the game looked the part and was animated miles better than Fifa.

So where are the PES fans of the future going to come from if the series continues down its current path? I commend Konami for taking a football-focused approach, concentrating on the basics of the game while exploring the intricacies of the sport such as body position and first touch, but if this limits the game to a hardcore of mature gamers then personally I'm uncomfortable with that.

I'm not asking for PES to sell-out, Fifa style and chase the casual crowd, but a happy medium needs to be found. Konami also need to realise that sharp graphics, lifelike animations, realistic audio and slick menu design and presentation are not optional extras - they are a pre-requisite these days and add to the experience.

Konami will only win back/attract new fans if they make a game that looks and sounds like football, not purely plays like it.
 
Jamezinho said:
This is what I was getting at earlier. How many kids and teenagers play PES these days? Not many I'd wager.

I first started playing ISS at my mates house when he picked up ISS Deluxe for the SNES and the gameplay had me hooked. This was when I was 14 back in 1995. That game started an almost unbroken 15 year dedication to ISS and PES. When I was at school/sixth form/uni everyone into football played ISS, then PES. FIFA was still the higher selling mass-market game but PES had all the gameplay credentials. It was deep, with plenty of simulation aspects but anyone could pick up and play, and compete without having to know intricate button combos, advanced techniques and spend ages in the tactics menu. That was the beauty of the game. Just as importantly, the game looked the part and was animated miles better than Fifa.

So where are the PES fans of the future going to come from if the series continues down its current path? I commend Konami for taking a football-focused approach, concentrating on the basics of the game while exploring the intricacies of the sport such as body position and first touch, but if this limits the game to a hardcore of mature gamers then personally I'm uncomfortable with that.

I'm not asking for PES to sell-out, Fifa style and chase the casual crowd, but a happy medium needs to be found. Konami also need to realise that sharp graphics, lifelike animations, realistic audio and slick menu design and presentation are not optional extras - they are a pre-requisite these days and add to the experience.

Konami will only win back/attract new fans if they make a game that looks and sounds like football, not purely plays like it.
Click to expand...

James you forgot one the most imortand thing. "Times have changed". You said a lot about past. Gaming are different now than 15 years ago. I know what I say because I'm old Amiga hardcore gamer. For me FIFA has shit gameplay. The only thing what i like in this game is tech nothing more. Why FIFA is so popular? Because gaming in this times = big casual fukin world. Do you know what i mean? 90% gamers are casuals who look for licenses, advertising, style etc. Games with soul are for hardcore gamers. They look for a game more deep. You have got it? PS2 days are complety different than new era of consoles.
 
Yep, times have changed, that's for sure.

The thing is, the cost of developing games is huge these days and getting higher all the time. For this reason there's no room for a niche, hardcore-focused sports game in today's market. PES has to have mainstream appeal and high sales to pay for the development and licensing costs, neither of which come cheap.

The days of Seabass leading a small team of programmers and designers are long gone.
 
Flaw3d Genius said:
Best player in the world by a bloody HUUUUUUUGE country mile.
Click to expand...

Even if he quit tomorrow he'd be the best player of all time IMO.

I have never seen any player show such consistency at such a high level.

His dribbling and scoring feats actually make the "god mode" AI in PES seem realistic! :LOL:
 
pj_puttz said:
Even if he quit tomorrow he'd be the best player of all time IMO.

I have never seen any player show such consistency at such a high level.

His dribbling and scoring feats actually make the "god mode" AI in PES seem realistic! :LOL:
Click to expand...

This. :TU:

I think we are pretty blessed to be seeing this kid's career from start to finish in our lifetime. What a truly special player he is, quite astonishing.

Jimmy, have you played master league in Superstar difficulty?
Click to expand...

No I haven't, and I very much doubt I ever will.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
This. :TU:

I think we are pretty blessed to be seeing this kid's career from start to finish in our lifetime. What a truly special player he is, quite astonishing.



No I haven't, and I very much doubt I ever will.
Click to expand...

That's why you love PES all the time lol!

I think Messi is the world's best, and probably best player ever. He needs a World Cup performance under his belt to be honest to complete the whole picture, to be a perfect career.

The trouble is though, I don't really like watching Barcelona matches. I can appreciate their technical brilliance, and the brilliance of the players on the ball. But I find watching them a little dull to be honest. Take a team like Real for example, who are more dynamic and more direct in attack, I much rather watch them in full flow.

I used to love Barcelona. Now because they cream everyone, I kind of support the underdog, therefore I'm more inclined to go for Madrid as my Spanish team to follow. There's something sort of uneasy about watching Barcelona, hitting Champions League teams for like 7 goals.
 
Plucky little underdogs Real Madrid haha.

I'd say Athletic Bilbao fit the underdog tag much better. Using only local players, not mega rich, amazing home crowd, intense and exciting style of play. Look forward to seeing them against Man U, if they still have something to play for in the home leg, they could cause an upset.
 
ccshopland said:
That's why you love PES all the time lol!

I think Messi is the world's best, and probably best player ever. He needs a World Cup performance under his belt to be honest to complete the whole picture, to be a perfect career.
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This is all he is missing, performances at International level. Although it is crazy really, as he is playing against 11 Internationals pretty much, week-in, week-out.
 
Hmmm, should be pretty obvious why ... Barcelona as a team vs. Argentina as a team

zaomijedraga.jpg


"Sorry darling, but I cannot score without Xavi and Iniesta"
 
zlac said:
Hmmm, should be pretty obvious why ... Barcelona as a team vs. Argentina as a team

zaomijedraga.jpg


"Sorry darling, but I cannot score without Xavi and Iniesta"
Click to expand...

Hmmmmmmmmm.... To an extent......

Let's be honest though bud, he is hardly a player that really 'needs' anyone, he creates a lot of his goals by himself, he needs no help there.
 
Nah, even the little wizard can't do it all by himself. It's a lot easier to shut him down when he plays for NT, because the rest of the team simply isn't as good as Barca. Sacrificing three men against him when he plays for Barca - suicide, rest of the team will slaughter you. Doing the same when he plays for Argentina - acceptable risk, IMO.
 
They are, but try looking at it from a different angle.

Barca is well oiled machine, fine tuned to perfection when it comes to their playing style. Messi in Barca is more like the shiniest jewel in the crown, that precious little gear that makes already great machine working even better. It's a classic synergy effect ... 2+2>4

On the other side, Argentina NT is more like a bunch of high class individuals that yet have to click together as a team. Frequent changes of coaches and playing philosophies do not help either. In his NT, he has to do a lot more by himself, which is much more difficult. IMO, that's why he displayed only flashes of brilliance while playing for NT, whereas he's virtually constantly brilliant in Barcelona.
 
It's important to distinguish between Messi being perfectly complemented by his Barça teammates, and him being nothing without them. I'm sure we appreciate the difference here, but some don't.

For all people talk about Maradona's weak Argentina side, it was set up to get the most out of what it had.
 
ccshopland said:
The trouble is though, I don't really like watching Barcelona matches. I can appreciate their technical brilliance, and the brilliance of the players on the ball. But I find watching them a little dull to be honest. Take a team like Real for example, who are more dynamic and more direct in attack, I much rather watch them in full flow.
Click to expand...

I kind of agree with this. It's not that I don't like watching Barca but you know what you're going to get from them every game. I prefer my football a little more unpredictable, and teams that can mix up their playing style. I appreciate the value of physical and/or direct football as much as the 'tiki-taka'.
 
I agree. Whilst a direct style of football ala Real Madrid or even Germany in the last world cup is something I prefer over Barcelona...I don't like teams that are TOO well drilled and score goals like training drills. I too like unpredictability...one that can only come by playing the game as it comes and having both teams with the ball.

If I wanted to just see one team with the ball trying to score all game I'd play a computer game :P
 
ccshopland said:
Err no. Lol.

I couldn't agree less.

It's not a question for me about becoming quickly bored, it's a question of the game portraying reality. It's not about results for me, because I can play the CPU at their game.

For me, to win in PES, you need to play the counter game at blistering pace. Anything else is asking for trouble.

A couple of things I'll highlight from your post, which in effect is what is wrong completely with the game.

1) You have to adjust your tactics and settings all the time to force the AI into playing differently - Why? Why can't I impinge MY tactics onto the CPU? I know there's give and take, but this game is all take, in that you have to bend to whatever game the CPU dictates.

2) Also, if you play fast counter attacking football they will, in turn give you a double dose of it straight back. - Again lol, why? What laws of physics or earthly mystical powers gives the CPU 'double powers' over the user, this is just silly. So we are in fact giving in to the fact and acknowledging that there is immediately a discrepancy between the CPU play and the human in terms of ability and penetration. I don't want the CPU to attack directly ALL the time; this isn't realistic. If it was realistic then everyone in world football would just get the ball and dribble. They don't, they pass backwards, sideways, forwards, dribble etc etc.

3) The same people that want the AI to adopt a more subtle attacking approach are the ones that would be saying that game is now to easy - Err, again no. We're in 2012 now, and arguably PES 5/6 had much better more realistic build up play than now. There were set rules which governed both the human player and the CPU. If the CPU had the ball in position in it would be wise enough to pass the ball backwards/sideways to continue the move, and not just plough on regardless arcade like straight on without any concern for losing possession.

In this iteration, it's as if all the CPU have a side bet as to who can hold onto the ball the shortest! PES 2011 had faults, but it was intelligent in the fact that you could apply pressure, cut off passing lanes, and gradually work the CPU back - like IRL. I've been playing the game since it was released and I honestly can't recall the CPU putting together more than ten passes and making me run after the ball.

4) Are their still going to be millions growing up now who love the game as much as we do. Or will they all be sold out to FIFA? - I'm a PES man, always have been. But there's no denying that the PES brigade are leaving in their droves. Is it because of accessibility, because PES has become too hardcore? I don't think so. I think it's because we are where we are in the world in terms of things on demand, and the expectation of the consumer. People were pissed off this year because of really shit keepers, blurry graphics (I mean WTF), scripted games, too much offensive dribbling etc etc. Things like the defensive play this year was just something that had to be learned, if people left because the game was too hard then that's their problem. But I can't deny that although there is a decent game in there, there are so many quirky, niggling, just downright shit things going on. Shooting not going where aimed, the issues with the patches to save face with the goalies (who were better ten years ago), the abysmal animations etc etc. I mean Jesus Christ, it's 2012, and who is doing the mo-cap for them...? Stephen f'kin Hawkins it looks like! Nobody kicks a ball like some of the animations, which are inconsistent together with the way the ball behaves.

You then either get the game where the CPU camp back in which it's depressing trying to break them down, or you get the constant see saw counter v counter v counter game against the top sides. The midfield in PES 2012 is just totally inconsequential. I could put 7 men in midfield, which in real life would provide a total pain to get through, but in PES it doesn't make a difference. The midfield is like a god dam ghost town, with hardly any battles going on.

Again I'll stress, it's not PES bashing for the sake of it. Buit what the hardcore want is a return of three things primarily -

1) Balance between attack and defence. It's way too arcade now. End to end slugfest. The midfield showdowns should be the show stopper for me, not some afterthought and crap obstacles but in the way of the speed merchants. I want the human and the CPU to be on an even keel in terms of natural laws of physics, governed only by stats, and team styles. Why the fk hasn't ANY game perfected Barcelona yet? Just get them to keep hold of the ball lol.

2) Individuality - straight forward. Heskey shouldn't dribble like Messi, but he should be strong. All non dribbling players (like 70% of footballers) should do what they do best, pass and move.

3) Control - give us control. If I want the shot to go right, then it should go right. I don't care if it goes slightly by the keeper, goes in the top corner/bottom corner, hits row Z, or goes into orbit with my player crumpled in a broken heap with a broken ankle cos the technique was all wrong; I don't care, as long as it goes right and NOT LEFT!!! And if I want to hit a long ball over the top which goes miles overhit for a goal kick, then I should be allowed to do it.

This is why the hardcore are leaving.
Click to expand...
Well I couldn't agree more.
While I enjoy reading your insightful posts into the game, it would appear that we playing it on a completely different wavelength at the moment.
Did you not quote in another thread "Shooting in patch 1.03 is pretty nailed down"?
Anyway here's another cracker.

YouTube - Chris Brunt .
 
makky said:
Well I couldn't agree more.
While I enjoy reading your insightful posts into the game, it would appear that we playing it on a completely different wavelength at the moment.
Did you not quote in another thread "Shooting in patch 1.03 is pretty nailed down"?
Anyway here's another cracker.

YouTube - Chris Brunt .
Click to expand...

Makky, the goals that can be scored isn't a problem for me, in fact the variety is excellent this year. But, on the console at least, shots still do not go where you intend them to go some of the time. A patched PC game goes some way in correcting this, but this isn't my main gripe at the moment. My main gripe is that the CPU are just gung ho in attack, and the CPU doesn't seem to realise or appreciate when it should pass and move and when it should dribble.

Now, I don't know if the team work stat makes the game play completely different or something, but for all its flaws, the console version with Chimps edits (making loads of teams have good teamwork) kind of makes it harder for the CPU to just dribble forward all the time, they have to pass the ball, which makes for exciting football on times. The trade off is the dire graphics, the inconsistent shooting, the balloon like physics and some obvious cheating.

Indeed, the more I've compared this week between modded PC and console, I'm actually starting, for the first time, to swing back to the console version (with Chimps edits) because of this one big issue; that the organisation of both teams is more realistic. I can press reasonably high up the pitch on the console (given the right set of variables and at the games whim of course) whilst although the editing stuff on the PC makes the other areas more enjoyable, the CPU still have this crazy tendency to prefer to dribble than pass in 90% of situations, even though the modders are working hard to get the CPU to pass the ball. Remember, I'm not asking for a dumbed down easier game, just a more realistic game. I have n problem with the CPU cutting me apart with passing moves etc, what I do have a problem with is Heskey not reflecting the stats, going on a Gascoigne, and burying one after leaving my CBs for dead.

Mak, the reason why I moan so much about it this year, is that underneath it all there is a game in there somewhere, possibly the best game to date. I just feel like KONAMI are missing so many chances by just a) not caring too much about their product or b) just haven't got the creative zest for it anymore.

For example, the last two games on the console I played have been excellent, using Chimps, Superstar, gamespeed -2. Trade off is slow ball speed and balloon like aerial stuff. But then game three the CPU played a cross in to which Morison of Norwich hit a slow volley toward the goal, kind of like a scoop shot. Honestly, the ball took about three earth seconds to get to the goal, only for the keeper to dive completely out of the way of it - I mean come on, stuff like this just makes you want to smash the console, it looked so, so bad, that a ball could be volleyed balloon like toward goal, then Reina jumps out of the way of it, after keepers had supposed to be fixed!

Perhaps I'm demanding too much of the game in 2012; I don't know. But keepers, shooting, passing, and getting the CPU to play some football should be givens by now so long after PES 5/6. This stuff should be so down it's unreal, KONAMI should be focusing on the aesthetics by now, tinkering with an almost flawless version of football from the base they had years ago. Instead, we go into another year where we're still not sure of what we are going to get. And even if they get the product right by demo, who's to say they want completely dumb it down again for release. KONAMI are a a strange, strange company these days. I fear that they are sinking, and unless they get some help, shake things up with their creativity, then more and more will turn to the ludicrous FIFA, which is beyond dire with their scripting this year.
 
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Shots are not always going to go where you have directed them to. There are a number of factors as to why, body position, player stats, fatigue to name a few. If they did you'd be able to stick Rio Ferdinand upfront and have him win the Golden Boot each season.
 
And no player in the world has perfect technique, 100% of the time. If that was the case, nobody would ever mis-hit a strike.
 
+1 and +1 on both of the last two posts. There was one incident in the Europa League game last night where Rooney ran on to a pass. His first touch didn't take the ball from out of his feet but he shot anyway. The result was a high ballooned effort. However, later in the game he hit a strike from about the same position but this time the ball was a couple of feet in front of him. The end result was so different. He unleashed a powerful, low drive forcing the save.
I thought to myself that's pure PES right there.
 
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