curdstar
Premier League
- 19 September 2006
- PES4 Partick Thistle
Well, after playing FIFA12 for a couple of hours and then sticking on PES, I can say with absolute certainty that tech apart, PES2012 is comfortably the more simulation-like football game in my opinion.
That doesn't mean it is perfect apart from the tech - not by a long shot - but the pace, flow and overall what the game demands from me makes it a deeper, more rewarding football video game experience. R2 really is the key to getting it all to click. It is such a pity that such a key mechanic has not been properly relayed to players of ALL skill levels, be it through the manual or the games training modes. I am all for the discovery, that mystique, but Konami need to hammer home how their game should be played and what it demands from the user regards this and so much more of the games controls. We actually pointed out the need for R2 in our guide way back when the game first came out but even now, it is still surprising me as to how much it truly opens up the game when R2 is used both liberally and correctly.
Excellent point made in here regards off-ball defence as well. I know we all say we perform our defensive duties mostly off-ball but again I don't think it is signposted by the game as to how much of a rule as opposed to an exception such an approach is.
So operating on the assumption that PES2013 will not be a massive departure, what really needs ironing out? I would say the following :
- Konami need to, absolutely have to, teach users how to approach the game and use it's control scheme through more detailed instruction manual explanation and of course, in game training modes. Leave no stone unturned here. Educate the user. No more ambiguity in explanation.
- Bring back the tactics timeline and expand upon both it and the tactics sliders. Also, have a separate tutorial that breaks down these screens and explains them clearly to the user so as everybody can grasp the depth on offer in this department. Provide video examples of what each slider actually does out on the pitch.
- With the game being built around such intensive use of R2, for the love of god get rid of that atrocious side-step animation and the horrible locked-in/sticky feel to it. For as much as I am loving the game, this glitchy feel to control that surfaces will using the games key mechanic can cause much more frustration than is necessary.
- Following on from the above point, increase the impact of player stats/abilities, particularly when using R2 to move with the ball. Less skilled players should move more slowly, be a little more deliberate in their touches and they sure as shite shouldn't be further hamstrung by entering into that bloody awful side-step move. Players who are more skilful should be more ''explosive'' or ''cuter'' with their touch when R2 is used.
- Return to the PES2011 defensive controls but have more in the way of animation that clearly indicates what the player is actually doing. However, the requirement to play more off-ball defence should be key and also clearly relayed to the user via tutorials etc.
- Loosen the shooting but only so basic placement is more easily achieved, then let the stats really take over. By doing this, the user at least gets the sense that their input is being registered so even if the on-screen player balls up the actual strike, it allows the user to understand what players can and cannot do relative to their stats/abilities.
- A ''one size fits all'' passing model that is a refined hybrid of PES2011, PES2012 ''0 bar'', and how it was on ''2 bar'' in preview code. L2 manual modifier must also remain. A full manual passing model simply takes too much away from stats impact. Also, make it possible to wildly overhit long, cross field balls and for L2 manual cross to feature.
- Less demand from the user to use Super Cancel, and Super Cancel itself should be mapped to L2 + R2. FIFA do get that right as it feels more intuitive.
- L2 to have more mapped to it, be it offence or defence controls.
- More on the fly tactical options. For example, allow the user to switch between man-marking and zonal defence; enable the user to ''mark star players'' on the fly, or double team man in possession. All this could be done via ''hot-keys''.
- Allow the user to adjust the ''deepness'' of the green of the turf in all stadia. Fix how the game performs overall in night-time matches.
- The broadcast camera seems to have the game perform more smoothly. That being the case, nail it down so that a usable gameplay camera - something that sits between pitchside and wide in look - has the game perform similarly to that found in broadcast.
Obviously, many of us don't need full explanations for things like tactics etc., but I remember listening to a weekend confirmed podcast last year in which one of the guys was talking about sports games and how they should do more to teach the sport and their own game to the user.
Now, some other ideas I have rattling about in ma heid :
- Introduce tendencies for all manner of attributes/skills. This is ripped straight from NBA2k. Player index should not be on/off thing. It is one thing having Steven Gerard having an index card stating he can long range drive but it would be quite another being able to dictate his tendency to do so. This would be a huge step in making the AI play more realistically or at least offer a dedicated editing community to craft a more simulation based experience. Every shot/pass type for every player should have a tendency slider. This could address the issue of certain players performing bicycle kicks and alike when it just isn't part of their game.
- If we can't share option files in-game regards kits, etc. at least allow us to share these rosters which would be lovingly crafted by a tremendous editing community. These guys could then constantly update and upload their work so as it can be shared with everyone. Imagine chimps/klashman meticulously crafting and updating their roster continuously, while players are safe in the knowledge that it doesn't require them to be going through the whole USB transfer malarkey. The introduction of such a feature would bring these guys and many others work to the fore.
Just a few thoughts. Back to the game!
That doesn't mean it is perfect apart from the tech - not by a long shot - but the pace, flow and overall what the game demands from me makes it a deeper, more rewarding football video game experience. R2 really is the key to getting it all to click. It is such a pity that such a key mechanic has not been properly relayed to players of ALL skill levels, be it through the manual or the games training modes. I am all for the discovery, that mystique, but Konami need to hammer home how their game should be played and what it demands from the user regards this and so much more of the games controls. We actually pointed out the need for R2 in our guide way back when the game first came out but even now, it is still surprising me as to how much it truly opens up the game when R2 is used both liberally and correctly.
Excellent point made in here regards off-ball defence as well. I know we all say we perform our defensive duties mostly off-ball but again I don't think it is signposted by the game as to how much of a rule as opposed to an exception such an approach is.
So operating on the assumption that PES2013 will not be a massive departure, what really needs ironing out? I would say the following :
- Konami need to, absolutely have to, teach users how to approach the game and use it's control scheme through more detailed instruction manual explanation and of course, in game training modes. Leave no stone unturned here. Educate the user. No more ambiguity in explanation.
- Bring back the tactics timeline and expand upon both it and the tactics sliders. Also, have a separate tutorial that breaks down these screens and explains them clearly to the user so as everybody can grasp the depth on offer in this department. Provide video examples of what each slider actually does out on the pitch.
- With the game being built around such intensive use of R2, for the love of god get rid of that atrocious side-step animation and the horrible locked-in/sticky feel to it. For as much as I am loving the game, this glitchy feel to control that surfaces will using the games key mechanic can cause much more frustration than is necessary.
- Following on from the above point, increase the impact of player stats/abilities, particularly when using R2 to move with the ball. Less skilled players should move more slowly, be a little more deliberate in their touches and they sure as shite shouldn't be further hamstrung by entering into that bloody awful side-step move. Players who are more skilful should be more ''explosive'' or ''cuter'' with their touch when R2 is used.
- Return to the PES2011 defensive controls but have more in the way of animation that clearly indicates what the player is actually doing. However, the requirement to play more off-ball defence should be key and also clearly relayed to the user via tutorials etc.
- Loosen the shooting but only so basic placement is more easily achieved, then let the stats really take over. By doing this, the user at least gets the sense that their input is being registered so even if the on-screen player balls up the actual strike, it allows the user to understand what players can and cannot do relative to their stats/abilities.
- A ''one size fits all'' passing model that is a refined hybrid of PES2011, PES2012 ''0 bar'', and how it was on ''2 bar'' in preview code. L2 manual modifier must also remain. A full manual passing model simply takes too much away from stats impact. Also, make it possible to wildly overhit long, cross field balls and for L2 manual cross to feature.
- Less demand from the user to use Super Cancel, and Super Cancel itself should be mapped to L2 + R2. FIFA do get that right as it feels more intuitive.
- L2 to have more mapped to it, be it offence or defence controls.
- More on the fly tactical options. For example, allow the user to switch between man-marking and zonal defence; enable the user to ''mark star players'' on the fly, or double team man in possession. All this could be done via ''hot-keys''.
- Allow the user to adjust the ''deepness'' of the green of the turf in all stadia. Fix how the game performs overall in night-time matches.
- The broadcast camera seems to have the game perform more smoothly. That being the case, nail it down so that a usable gameplay camera - something that sits between pitchside and wide in look - has the game perform similarly to that found in broadcast.
Obviously, many of us don't need full explanations for things like tactics etc., but I remember listening to a weekend confirmed podcast last year in which one of the guys was talking about sports games and how they should do more to teach the sport and their own game to the user.
Now, some other ideas I have rattling about in ma heid :
- Introduce tendencies for all manner of attributes/skills. This is ripped straight from NBA2k. Player index should not be on/off thing. It is one thing having Steven Gerard having an index card stating he can long range drive but it would be quite another being able to dictate his tendency to do so. This would be a huge step in making the AI play more realistically or at least offer a dedicated editing community to craft a more simulation based experience. Every shot/pass type for every player should have a tendency slider. This could address the issue of certain players performing bicycle kicks and alike when it just isn't part of their game.
- If we can't share option files in-game regards kits, etc. at least allow us to share these rosters which would be lovingly crafted by a tremendous editing community. These guys could then constantly update and upload their work so as it can be shared with everyone. Imagine chimps/klashman meticulously crafting and updating their roster continuously, while players are safe in the knowledge that it doesn't require them to be going through the whole USB transfer malarkey. The introduction of such a feature would bring these guys and many others work to the fore.
Just a few thoughts. Back to the game!
So this cannot be fixed on the console versions?
Also I hate to sway this off-topic again, but whats the track? 90s jungle? 
