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PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

UTD-PEARSON said:
The game is really beginning to click for me the only major flaw that stands out is the ridiculous scripting on superstar. Last game the ref basically ignored two blatant fouls in the box and julio cesar decided to turn into a complete wanker.

After taking radha1's advice on board I'm unbeaten in 7 matches(won 3 drawn 4) might be too little to late early season defeats may cost me. The hard thing is adjusting my play consistently, its all well and good knowing what to do in pes but executing these techniques takes time. It will take me a while to adjust my defensive game accordingly but I'm getting there. Its easy to slip back though and defend like I would in pes 2011 and the Ai will punish me accordingly.

EDIT -

One more thing, when using radha' advice Iv'e noticed the AI is less perfect so to speak on SS difficulty, relying on your AI team mates to close space forces them into passing errors and they really are struggling to break me down, keep dropping points against weaker teams though which is irritating.
Click to expand...

The biggest niggles I have are when the CPU can just intercept and tackle you after you have received a high pass to the chest. He is behind you, your defending with your back, yet sometime he seems to come through your body and move away with it. That's my main niggle, when it happens. No need for it.
 
That Emnes goal was a delight to watch Jimmy.
I saw someone mention on a forum, canty remember which one that PES12's dribbling was broken! I think its probably the best dribbling system in any PES to date.
The subtle shifts of weight on foot, positioning, use of R2/L2 to jink and weave are all yoiu need to realistically pull off great dribbles.
I could watch that Emnes goal all day long over a FIFA skill drenched billion elasticos and a mcgeady turn dribble any day.

Nice finish too calcio, was that a standard shot or shot with R2?
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
The biggest niggles I have are when the CPU can just intercept and tackle you after you have received a high pass to the chest. He is behind you, your defending with your back, yet sometime he seems to come through your body and move away with it. That's my main niggle, when it happens. No need for it.
Click to expand...

It seems much easier for the AI to just barge you off the ball from behind, kept happening last night against cesena man they were like a team possesed. I actually felt knackered after the match had to fight like hell for a point(me as inter:SHOCK:). Close control can help but in certain situations there is only one winner.

Iv'e just realised the only way to play this game is 15 minute matches, had some epic games last night in offline ML. That extra time for both you and the AI gives the game a much more realistic flow, -1 speed by the way.
 
Thanks guys. Yeah it was an R2 shot. I love the shift in momentum that skins the defender before the shot ;)

Happy birthday Jimmy! It was mine on Sunday :) that goal of yours was sublime. The finish like an inside out Nadal forehand lol
 
My lads are pulling out all the stops here to save my Boro job. Just beat Blackpool
2-1. Martins produced some Calcio inspired magic to take the lead. Blackpool equalised via a stunning chipped half-volley into the far corner. New boy Rabiu scored the winner with a first time laces strike. I used a lot of secondary containing, switched strategies after securing the lead again, and held out. Cutting out the passing lanes forced the CPU to go back and to the side much more passing wise.
YouTube - Martins L1 Curling Chip Shot
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
My lads are pulling out all the stops here to save my Boro job. Just beat Blackpool
2-1. Martins produced some Calcio inspired magic to take the lead. Blackpool equalised via a stunning chipped half-volley into the far corner. New boy Rabiu scored the winner with a first time laces strike. I used a lot of secondary containing, switched strategies after securing the lead again, and held out. Cutting out the passing lanes forced the CPU to go back and to the side much more passing wise.
YouTube - Martins L1 Curling Chip Shot
Click to expand...

Loved the Emnes goal :BOP: but that one above i scored quite alot and no matter how many times i see it it just doesn't look right the animation just looks really off.
 
Various observations about Pressure:

Note: these comments are in the context of unassisted passing, Superstar level, etc. Please consider reading my posts about defending and the difference between Professional and Superstar on other pages. In other words, if you are button-masher please ignore this post.

So, personally, my default setting for Pressure is 4 or 5 and on occasion, depending on the circumstances (time is short, I need the ball back) I might move up to 6 or 7. The goal for me is to maintain tactically sound defense at all times, even under threat. My team must maintain their shape, stay behind the ball (that sounds unnecessarily negative--how about "keep the the ball in front of them") and only tackle under special circumstances (they are the last man, the shape is lost, etc). Why? As Xabi Alonso said in an interview, tackling is recurso, that is, it is not a tactically sound option but only a last resort. I think he meant, first, that tackling is inelegant in the modern game. But he had something else in mind that directly relates to PES 2012. When you have high pressure and you tackle, both the ball-possessor and the dispossessor are now likely "out of the moment". Statistically speaking, it is likely that the ball is now loose and both teams have as much of a chance to gain possession. Furthermore, even if you do gain possession through the tackler, he is now out of position offensively and he is in proximity of the man he dispossessed by tackle. The options are limited or at the very least filled with a measure of panic. If you are lucky enough to tackle and gain possession what the heck are you supposed to do with the ball?

However, if you prepare your team with a reduced pressure tactic such that they can maintain their shape on defense, and then intercept the ball, the scenario is quite different. First, there is no need to panic. If you intercepted the ball you did so in space and away from the opposing team. You have time to turn, to dribble, to hold while your team-mates move forward, to pass. You are in space, wonderful space. Furthermore, if you intercept in space you likely did so by flowing against the grain of the CPUs offensive flow. In other words, you intercepted moving away from your goal while the CPU is moving towards your goal. In essence, interception is counter-attack by default.

Thus if you want to play tactically sound defense and initiate offense in one movement, reduce your pressure setting, maintain your shape, and intercept against the grain.

Caveat: of course tackling is very important at crucial times, I agree. But remember that it is only recurso. How many times have we managed a wonderful, clean tackle, only to find that the CPU regained possession suddenly while our team began to burst forward (thinking we had regained possession) and now we are out of shape and in a few passes we have conceded.

Last comment about playing against 'long ball': (note: before I started my ML I edited all the teams tactics using the Google Spreadsheet available in another forum on this website. Thus every team plays very differently but I can view their tactics in detail before each game and prepare my tactical response, if you get my drift). So, when you play against a team that has high player distance (regardless of support or other matters) I think it is essential to reduce your pressure. When you play a long-ball team they propose to eliminate space and play mainly off the carpet. I find it very hard to intercept against such teams. My first intuition is to increase my pressure level so that my players pressure the ball-possessor and deny him the opportunity to launch the ball forward. Unfortunately, this never works. This is the big league. The ball-possessor will simply juke and dribble into space and launch the ball forward; a second disaster follows. When the ball is in the air and approaching its CPU target, my closest player will immediate rush to pressure (because of my high pressure tactic) but will rarely win the battle (the CPU player naturally has 'inside' position since he is closer to the flight of the ball than my defender who is behind him). Thus, if and when the CPU player wins the battle and turns to play offense, he will of course be in open space because my team-mate just rushed out of position and lost the battle. That is game over. My advice: against long ball consider reducing your pressure tactic, keep the ball in front of you, be patient. Don't forget that when the CPU player receives the air-ball he will likely be by himself. In effect, you will have him surrounded.

Good Day!
 
Last edited:
radha1 said:
Various observations about Pressure:

Note: these comments are in the context of unassisted passing, Superstar level, etc. Please consider reading my posts about defending and the difference between Professional and Superstar on other pages. In other words, if you are button-masher please ignore this post.

So, personally, my default setting for Pressure is 4 or 5 and on occasion, depending on the circumstances (time is short, I need the ball back) I might move up to 6 or 7. The goal for me is to maintain tactically sound defense at all times, even under threat. My team must maintain their shape, stay behind the ball (that sounds unnecessarily negative--how about "keep the the ball in front of them") and only tackle under special circumstances (they are the last man, the shape is lost, etc). Why? As Xabi Alonso said in an interview, tackling is recurso, that is, it is not a tactically sound option but only a last resort. I think he meant, first, that tackling is inelegant in the modern game. But he had something else in mind that directly relates to PES 2012. When you have high pressure and you tackle, both the ball-possessor and the dispossessor are now likely "out of the moment". Statistically speaking, it is likely that the ball is now loose and both teams have as much of a chance to gain possession. Furthermore, even if you do gain possession through the tackler, he is now out of position offensively and he is in proximity of the man he dispossessed by tackle. The options are limited or at the very least filled with a measure of panic. If you are lucky enough to tackle and gain possession what the heck are you supposed to do with the ball?

However, if you prepare your team with a reduced pressure tactic such that they can maintain their shape on defense, and then intercept the ball, the scenario is quite different. First, there is no need to panic. If you intercepted the ball you did so in space and away from the opposing team. You have time to turn, to dribble, to hold while your team-mates move forward, to pass. You are in space, wonderful space. Furthermore, if you intercept in space you likely did so by flowing against the grain of the CPUs offensive flow. In other words, you intercepted moving away from your goal while the CPU is moving towards your goal. In essence, interception is counter-attack by default.

Thus if you want to play tactically sound defense and initiate offense in one movement, reduce your pressure setting, maintain your shape, and intercept against the grain.

Caveat: of course tackling is very important at crucial times, I agree. But remember that it is only recurso. How many times have we managed a wonderful, clean tackle, only to find that the CPU regained possession suddenly while our team began to burst forward (thinking we had regained possession) and now we are out of shape and in a few passes we have conceded.

Last comment about playing against 'long ball': (note: before I started my ML I edited all the teams tactics using the Google Spreadsheet available in another forum on this website. Thus every team plays very differently but I can view their tactics in detail before each game and prepare my tactical response, if you get my drift). So, when you play against a team that has high player distance (regardless of support or other matters) I think it is essential to reduce your pressure. When you play a long-ball team they propose to eliminate space and play mainly off the carpet. I find it very hard to intercept against such teams. My first intuition is to increase my pressure level so that my players pressure the ball-possessor and deny him the opportunity to launch the ball forward. Unfortunately, this never works. This is the big league. The ball-possessor will simply juke and dribble into space and launch the ball forward; a second disaster follows. When the ball is in the air and approaching its CPU target, my closest player will immediate rush to pressure (because of my high pressure tactic) but will rarely win the battle (the CPU player naturally has 'inside' position since he is closer to the flight of the ball than my defender who is behind him). Thus, if and when the CPU player wins the battle and turns to play offense, he will of course be in open space because my team-mate just rushed out of position and lost the battle. That is game over. My advice: against long ball consider reducing your pressure tactic, keep the ball in front of you, be patient. Don't forget that when the CPU player receives the air-ball he will likely be by himself. In effect, you will have him surrounded.

Good Day!
Click to expand...

Good post, some interesting points.

The problem with a lot if it though is that in real life players know that the laws of physics exist and not every player dribbles like Messi. This is where the game (unmodded) falls flat. What you have to do essentially is keep countering the dribblers, where the game should be countering space by closing passing lanes and making passing options hard to come by, therefore forcing the CPU to play back and across. This just doesn't happen in PES because the CPU, with every single player, is programmed to go forward as a primary objective and dribble as a secondary objective. Long balls are then programmed to get from A to B quickly where the CPU can start its next phase of dribbling from a more advanced position up the pitch.

It is in short, far too easy for the CPU to get up the pitch via dribbling, and whilst you have to pass like a bitch aka Barcelona style they can just go about their business. The only way to defend really is to drop back and contain, as the CPU already have a reflex advantage dribbling. Now I am not saying that the game is crap because of this; as a game and as a challenge PES 2012 (PS3) is quite compelling. But as a SIMULATION of football, it falls way, way short. I have recently been playing PES 2011 and it was indeed refreshing to see the CPU pass the ball when I cut off passing lanes, both sideways and backwards. In PES 2012 you have to adopt a very 'retreat' attitude at the higher levels and hope to crowd out the dribbling ball carrier.
 
makky said:
I know you probably mentioned how do do it before Jimmy, but do press R2 after the shot is displayed on the power bar? Or do you press R2 and shot simultaneously?.
Click to expand...

Always after bud, but I see you got that now. Great goal, love those off the bar. :)

And cheers Flawed, loved that one myself.

Edit - Makky, are you using an camera from the 70's there ? I've seen better quality Laurel and Hardy movies..... :LOL:
 
Great post radha. Until recently I have been reluctant to play anything below a pressing value of 11. At the moment I am using no more than 9 to great effect, if I need to hound the AI I still can(with super cancel sprint or just simple use of analog) but using 9 allows me to keep my shape much more effectively. Played a pressing value of 8 against fiorentina(they were using long ball with 4-3-3 formation) every time a ball was sent forward to their wingers they had few options and they seemed to be quite sloppy in possession. Managed to win the midfield battle without the use of constant standing tackles.
 
:LMAO:.
It's being filmed on my laptop with the Acer Crystal Eye webcam. I'm also using Debut Video Capture software. I don't know jack shit about frame rate settings (screen or output).
I'm gonna save for a PVR, but in the meantime if anyone can give me tips or recommend a better capture program it would be appreciated.
 
im agreeing %100 that the packing of the box is very realistic and closer to real football then the guys saying this is where the game sucks. It might suck, but that is football. Watch any game, team pack there half, they contain, they prevent openings, they dont play wide open football cause they dont want to lose 4-1. The one issue i do have is when you are on attack and the cpu clears go right to a target man... or a perfect outlet pass under pressue... a little annoying...

now on to R2. I am using this button but am noticing this annoying side step animation i will get in sometimes. Jimmy I hope you can provide some guidance around this. Slowing the game down does seem to help the game click a little more. Problem is, I mostly play 2 v cpu with a mate... getting him to slow down is another thing... LOL
 
Platini said:
Also, the closer the camera the better; there is some tiny moves, both while defending or attacking, you cannot work it out unless while using closer cam. This effects the game in many ways, because the system, somehow, supports the right touches through too many aspects, and not only for the direct moment.
This game is a deep journey, and you might not like every moment through it, but for sure it deserves the time you invest on it!
Click to expand...

yh, u got that right.. its soo much easier to play with a close cam. it makes dribbling and defence easier. i usually play with 'pitch side' cam cos its closer and i can still see the whole pitch(atleast, most of it). i would av preferred 'player' cam but it kinda gets annoyn when switching players plus i cant see who is comming from behind.
 
Gibah said:
yh, u got that right.. its soo much easier to play with a close cam. it makes dribbling and defence easier. i usually play with 'pitch side' cam cos its closer and i can still see the whole pitch(atleast, most of it). i would av preferred 'player' cam but it kinda gets annoyn when switching players plus i cant see who is comming from behind.
Click to expand...


I am finding the response of players to R2 and different moves is amazingly diverse. From a closer cam you can spot those reactions easier and you will find them very rewarding. Usually I do this in training mode . But when it comes to games I prefer wider cam.





 
Jimmy,

Emnes goal is a masterpiece. I watched it many times. Everything sounds perfect. The shot also was too perfect!
Yesterday I scored one of those goals. The attacker received the ball facing his goal and the defender right behind him. With R2 touch he elevated the ball a little to give himself time and space, then turn half circle and shot it. I was watching it throughout the day!



And, happy birthday my English brother!

:P
 
gomito#10 said:
now on to R2. I am using this button but am noticing this annoying side step animation i will get in sometimes. Jimmy I hope you can provide some guidance around this. Slowing the game down does seem to help the game click a little more. Problem is, I mostly play 2 v cpu with a mate... getting him to slow down is another thing... LOL
Click to expand...

The Side-Step animation kicks into play if the player has certain Player Cards or Dribbling Accuracy is above a certain level. It's the same skill that Emnes used twice, it works well if you dont over-do it.

Also, try running or jogging in a direction, then leave your stick/pad central, and tap R2. This will momentarily bring you to a halt, you can then use that change of direction to move away in a different direction. Very subtle, but all you need.
 
Thats a proper goal!!!!
The frustrating thing about PES shooting is that you should be able to choose to pull this style of shot off whenever you like, obviously stats, positioning etc would determine wether its successful or not but as in real life if i have the ball 30 yards out and i wanna drill one low and hard then i should be able to, in PES its almost like a lottery what type of shot occurs.
We really do need a Low shot modifier button implemented, along with a new skill card 'Daisy Cutter' that allows players to take Gerrard style driven ground shots when they have the chance.
 
im starting to get the shooting, scored a few screamers last night. Slowing the game down and using R2 does open this game up. Playing defense is tough.. even the two stick method...
 
xPJRx said:
Thats a proper goal!!!!
The frustrating thing about PES shooting is that you should be able to choose to pull this style of shot off whenever you like, obviously stats, positioning etc would determine wether its successful or not but as in real life if i have the ball 30 yards out and i wanna drill one low and hard then i should be able to, in PES its almost like a lottery what type of shot occurs.
We really do need a Low shot modifier button implemented, along with a new skill card 'Daisy Cutter' that allows players to take Gerrard style driven ground shots when they have the chance.
Click to expand...

You can choose how to shoot hard and low like that, you do need a player with high Shooting Power though, 80+. Then use the Explosive Burst/First-Touch, and address the strike with a 3-step stride pattern and just apply just more than a tap of Shoot. His natural power, posture and stride pattern will do the rest. There is a science to it, it's certainly not random.
 
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