PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

The Free Roaming Card has to be the least disciplined trait on the game. Players will literally adopt positions anywhere on the park. A nightmare if you want to play a rigid formation I guess.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Yeah it would be interesting to know what settings you are using to come up with those problems in player positioning. I mean all settings too - are you making changes or you've left it to the coach to make changes? Do you change tactics on the fly? What are your formation and tactic settings etc.

Not to say you don't have a point Radha1 but there might be something you could tweak to improve it. Can't hurt to check I suppose?
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I play on full unassisted, a standard 433 formation, with control over all tactics on the fly. You can put team strategy on any setting: long ball, possession, it doesn't matter. You can put any winger with any player card, it won't matter.

If you lose possession high up the pitch, for example, on the near side, and the CPU plays out through the near side (in other words, if your far side winger has no direct role to play on defense) he will (literally!) shuffle towards the center circle and sometimes even cross it so that he is near the near side winger. When you regain possession and attempt to play out along the far side, your winger will just star to sprint into position.

This happens whether you play a WF or SMF. This happens under all contexts. If you think this is a matter of depth, of stats, or player styles, you're dreaming. Actually, the best way to see this terrible flaw is to play BAL as a center forward. When you lose possession deep in the opponent's half and they play out, as the camera turns and play runs away from you towards your own goal, just stand there in an offside position and watch one or both of you wingers drift towards each other until, I swear, they migh just hold hands. And then, when your team regains possession, they will sprint to the wings, just a bit too late for the early advantage.

This has nothing to do with runs, or stats, or tactics, or formation. If you don't see this yourself it's because you don't want to see it.

I say all of this with respect. I appreciate all of you posts and have learned a lot.
 
I respectfully disagree there. Try going to Standard tactics, and creating your own. If you wish to have both wingers hugging the byline, then put your Compactness way down. Also, set it up opposite to what the Possession preset offers, as that's in place to ensure players come to meet the option rather than offering space out wide.

The only other point that concerns me about this, is that your wanting to keep both winger tight to the lines regardless of where the action is playing out. The natural tendency of any player, SMF or even LB/RB, would be to drift inside if the play is congested at the other side of the pitch. I honestly don't see what the problem is in that regard. In saying that, it's definitely possible to keep them out wide should you choose. Moving the player right to the very edge of the pitch is a start, the tactics will then do the rest.
 
radha1, you might probably be trying to attack to quickly maybe or your compactivness is too narrow depending on your setting. This happens to me a little bit with Wolfsburg and Dos Santos and Manzukic. off the ball your team organizes itself depending on the positions set, pressure and compactivness.

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I see people are complaining about teams playing the same, but nobody even bothering to look my tactics thread. As if teams should just magically play like they do in real life with no instruction. I just don't understand it is so, simple, so so simple, to change teams to play like they do in real life. FIFA community breaks it back to try do this even if it makes no difference but the PES community can't be bothered. I just don't understand.

If 15/20 teams in a league have quick counter of long ball, obviously most teams will play in a similar fashion. It's right there infront of peoples faces. Just like with the generic kits the game is shipped with. it takes a community effort to change them so we have a better more varied AI. But oh no, this should be done by magic.

It seems nobody wants to work together here, it's just MY WORD IS GOD, FOLLOW ME. and the more followers you have, the more people you influence, without really approaching whats being said in a open mind.

and no, Konami like me cannot be expected to know exactly how ever team in the world player in intricate detail,. it's a community effort. PES is like buying your shopping from Morrisons, it's best to buy the right ingredients than suit you and ask for help on whats goes well with what, FIFA is is like buy McDonalds or Pizza hut, fast food, little or no fuss whatsoever, everything is set for you, the food is made out of crap with sweeteners and artificial flavorings which will keep you satisfied for the short term, but the addictiveness of the food will leave you coming for more. You find out the food is crap, you complain, they release some bullshit add and your swindled again!

The few times i've played the game in the last three months. My lack of activity here or caring what anyone says is exactly why i've enjoyed it. I mean just this forum.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
I respectfully disagree there. Try going to Standard tactics, and creating your own. If you wish to have both wingers hugging the byline, then put your Compactness way down. Also, set it up opposite to what the Possession preset offers, as that's in place to ensure players come to meet the option rather than offering space out wide.

The only other point that concerns me about this, is that your wanting to keep both winger tight to the lines regardless of where the action is playing out. The natural tendency of any player, SMF or even LB/RB, would be to drift inside if the play is congested at the other side of the pitch. I honestly don't see what the problem is in that regard. In saying that, it's definitely possible to keep them out wide should you choose. Moving the player right to the very edge of the pitch is a start, the tactics will then do the rest.
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Thank you very much for your reply. In hindsight, I do regret referring to your comment as "monumentally stupid". The stupid part was over the top!

Yes, I have tried every possible tactic adjustment including compactness and setting the wingers right on the line in the formation. Just to be clear, I don't want both my WF tight to the lines regardless of where the action is playing out. I expect on offense and defense for players to drift to the inside depending on the action. But this has nothing to do with that. I'm talking about a far side (that is, far side from the ball) WF or SMF drifting to the center circle and even beyond when the opposition has the ball inside my half. It's especially horrible when both WF or SMF drift towards each other and, sometimes, cross.

I would appreciate your offering a tactic, formation and strategy (using WFs, just to make it obvious) where you felt this didn't happen. I will try it. If it works, I will bow to you, sincerely. I say this as a fellow gamer who wants to once again enjoy his PES.

Good day.
 
klashman69 said:
radha1, you might probably be trying to attack to quickly maybe or your compactivness is too narrow depending on your setting. This happens to me a little bit with Wolfsburg and Dos Santos and Manzukic. off the ball your team organizes itself depending on the positions set, pressure and compactivness.

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I see people are complaining about teams playing the same, but nobody even bothering to look my tactics thread. As if teams should just magically play like they do in real life with no instruction. I just don't understand it is so, simple, so so simple, to change teams to play like they do in real life. FIFA community breaks it back to try do this even if it makes no difference but the PES community can't be bothered. I just don't understand.

If 15/20 teams in a league have quick counter of long ball, obviously most teams will play in a similar fashion. It's right there infront of peoples faces. Just like with the generic kits the game is shipped with. it takes a community effort to change them so we have a better more varied AI. But oh no, this should be done by magic.

It seems nobody wants to work together here, it's just MY WORD IS GOD, FOLLOW ME. and the more followers you have, the more people you influence, without really approaching whats being said in a open mind.

and no, Konami like me cannot be expected to know exactly how ever team in the world player in intricate detail,. it's a community effort. PES is like buying your shopping from Morrisons, it's best to buy the right ingredients than suit you and ask for help on whats goes well with what, FIFA is is like buy McDonalds or Pizza hut, fast food, little or no fuss whatsoever, everything is set for you, the food is made out of crap with sweeteners and artificial flavorings which will keep you satisfied for the short term, but the addictiveness of the food will leave you coming for more. You find out the food is crap, you complain, they release some bullshit add and your swindled again!

The few times i've played the game in the last three months. My lack of activity here or caring what anyone says is exactly why i've enjoyed it. I mean just this forum.
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On the contrary Klash, everyone does work together, that's why the game is becoming something playable at last! A thousand pages of gameplay patches will attest to that.

The point being me, the consumer, shouldn't HAVE to spend hours and hours and hours getting teams to play like they do IRL. And in the majority of cases, the vast majority, the tactics at the higher levels really don't make a difference anyway. The CPU will still try to dribble as directly as possible using reflex skills that the human player doesn't, and will almost always adopt the counter attack policy with un-erring precision.

Take it to the nth degree Klash; what you seem to be saying is that KONAMI just need to make 'a game', a leave everything else blank, and we just make players, faces, stats, formations etc etc?!?

That's just ridiculous. Why isn't there somebody on the KONAMI team that is held responsible for this very role. Stats and formations and playing styles are probably the most important facet of the game. But it shouldn't be left to the person in the street who has just shelled out £40 to put right should it?

Why is Doni rated 86 the same as Reina for example? Why can't Reina kick further than the halfway line? Why is Carroll like God and Suarez just adequate? I could go on...

There should be a guy in charge, or a team, of getting all this stuff accurate. You'll have disputes obviously, but the point here is that I know more about football and probably watch more football worldwide than KONAMI. So do most posters here. Why can't they get the extreme teams right for example? Why in 2012, can they not make Barcelona play like Barcelona, out of the box? Why can't ANY team keep the ball and pass it about for more than five seconds of game time?

The speed merchant card just utterly breaks the game, and you still have players not responding to tactical commands at the higher levels because of the scripts. The other day I conceded a headed goal to one of the games scripted lofted wing through balls, so I put defensive line lower and compactness more outwards so that the right back couldn't be prone to it...three headed goals more later, and I was still scratching my head as to how to counter something that just couldn't be countered. As soon as the lofted through balls were coming in STILL my full backs were letting it go, for another cross for the CPU player to score a header as my CB's ran completely the other way! This is just scripting at the highest level, which makes you not even bother with the game. So even if I did have the patience to go through the entire game and edit every tactic, formation and slider setting, you are STILL at the whim of scripting? So what's the point?

I take my hat off to the community they truly are troopers, but my time and patience with this game (unmodded) is at an end I'm afraid.
 
I just want to throw this one out there, I've just come the closest yet to scoring a goal using one of the new style shooting techniques. The one in question, is the L1 Chip and bend shot. Those who have read the Football Life thread may remember me mentioning that this particular technique in real-life and PES 12 is best achieved from 'running square' (as in to the box) and whipping it up and round with the instep. (Preferred foot of the player is essential, as Wellens showed in the video)

The player in question in the video is Reece Williams of Boro, he has excellent technique and he came so close with this one. The power used was about 1/4, and I also made sure the ball was close to his feet. This naturally offers less zip on the shot, and more control/bend. Sprinting and attempting this shot is possible, but better from range, or straight on, as the trajectory of the ball will take it's time to rise before dropping. It's a more clipped strike, with emphasis on the whip of the motion. That's what get's it up and down quickly, without gaining a lot of height.

The reason I attempted this was because I saw the keeper way off his line seconds before I passed it to Reece. The keepers are excellent for me after patch 1.03, and I'd go as far as to see the best in PES, that I can remember. They narrow the angle now come off their line quite often.

(It's called 'cheating' in the trade, not literally cheating, but trying to gain an advantage by doing something that he shouldn,t. It's a player term)

Due to the fact they are narrowing the angle of any potential long-range strike, they are there to be lobbed. The L1 Chip is a great way to attempt this. You can even max out an L1 Chip and attempt at chipped shot from 40 yards + away, now. It's awesome.

This one was obviously from close range, but I have come close from long-range as well. This one was a more controlled L1 Chip, ball close to feet, plenty of natural whip due to the players body posture, preferred foot, balance and technique. The shot hit the bar, but it had the keeper well and truly beaten. In fact, if it had gone in, I'm pretty sure the animation would have seen him rooted. Those are the chips that look the best as well for me, the one's where the keeper just watches it go over his head. It rubberstamps the fact you have just properly 'done him'.

There was one more thing here though, but I'm not sure completely if it had relevance or not. After I attempted the L1 Chip, I also pressed R2 (Force of habit from that range now). I've seen a tap of R2 after a High Through-Ball take the weight off the pass, I'm confused a little as to whether it did the same here, or whether it was all down the the shot technique and fundamentals in place. It's hard to tell from the shooting animation, as it is the same as the R2 Control Shot. It's the perfect animation, but it is commonly used in these type of shots. In fact, I don't know how else they could animate that type of instep controlled curl to be honest.

Anyway, here it is.....

YouTube - PES 12 Shooting Techniques
 
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what really infuriates me about this game is the AI of the players on your team especially the defenders.
i havethem at times running away from the ball or backing away from it, so the opposition can get it, its absolutely stupid. i have expierenced this both online and offline and its not always a one off.

you dont see rio ferdinand about to intercept a pass and then back a way from it or bomb up the pitch running away from the ball, at times it seems as tho your players have no idea of where the ball is or there position in relation to the ball.
i play alot online in quick matches in most cases coming up against the usual suspects, barca madrid and ac milan i dont see there players doing it they seem to defend as a proper team would do. but i play as man city and at times the Ai is shocking..
it feels like the controller is a placebo in my hand, i think i am playing the game but i am not really in control. some matches feel so scripted in that the outcome of the match has already been decided win lose or draw.
sometimes it plays a really good game one of the best and another day it plays the worst game of football i have ever played i cant believe how extreme it can be and its all down to the scripting of the game i feel.
 
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On the contrary Klash, everyone does work together, that's why the game is becoming something playable at last! A thousand pages of gameplay patches will attest to that.
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Not really it's that attention seeker yair, who released patches constantly because, he needs people to talk about him. I'm sorry it's like he plays one game, notice's something he don't like then changes is even if it requires just a change of tactics or for him to understand it better.

Jenky is much better since he dosen't seem to have insecurities about not having attention. For crying out load it's a game!

The point being me, the consumer, shouldn't HAVE to spend hours and hours and hours getting teams to play like they do IRL.
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First question.
What game has ever provided by default teams playing exactly how they do in real life?No football game has and ever will. All Konami do is give them a basic set up in formation and playing style to how they do in real life and that's it. You cannot expect football programmers to know every little detail about every single team they put on the game. mainly because like with Inter, and Sunderland etc.. over a season, certain teams sack their managers and totally change their philosophy.

Like West Brom last Year, played passing, attacking football under Di Matteo, he was sacked, now Hodgson takes a more cautious defensive counter attack approach. See :)

Take Barca. They play passing football, they play 4-3-3, that's it! That's all Konami have put down, that's all they should put down because we can't have an unbalanced game where Barca get everything set up for them with so much effort and other teams get nothing.

I mean can you please tell me how SC Ohlanense play? Or how Sparta Rottendam play? or Hadjuk Split? You expect one guy to know everything about every single team in the game? I mean it's not exactly like every single team is on TV every week.


Second question.
How much do you want to see teams play like they do in real life or do you just want every team to play the same way but give you a hard game?
Some people don't even realize there's differences between teams, they 'expect' every team to play the same or even expect every team to do something, like for example play slow buildup. Even if it's Stoke. these are also people who moan about scripting what the CPU simply changes tactics when losing or winning. Not aware enough to know whats going on.

Last question.
Do you want to play against teams like Stoke who hoof it? African teams with mad high lines and just run at you all the time? Portuguese teams who sit back and counter with fast wingers and a target man? Some people aren't ready for realsim even though they demand it.

And in the majority of cases, the vast majority, the tactics at the higher levels really don't make a difference anyway. The CPU will still try to dribble as directly as possible using reflex skills that the human player doesn't, and will almost always adopt the counter attack policy with un-erring precision.
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Well it does, i've not bothered to use any patches on the PC and i've been able to stop teams using tactics, just close down their options and don't just run up to players and expect to tackle them with ease.

Only team i have trouble against is Barca with my tactics set up.

Realism does not fit into certain peoples own fantasies. There's what happens in real life and how it's mirrored ingame. If you want it in the first place anyway.

Take it to the nth degree Klash; what you seem to be saying is that KONAMI just need to make 'a game', a leave everything else blank, and we just make players, faces, stats, formations etc etc?!?
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This is very strange question. your saying i expect Konami to do nothing and we do everything. As literally blank faces, kits, players for all teams?

Or what i' saying is Konami do enough. But if your not happy with the level of realism Konami has set, and it's possible to do it yourself. Why not? Since Konami have actually not just provided a very good game, but the tools to enhance it to our preference.

If Konami had done nothing, that's fine, if konami where like they where back in 2006-2009, not bothering putting any serious effort into their game, fine, but they are trying with a clearly limited budget and they have done a very good job this year.

It's a video game. I accept Konami just ain't got the money to make anything super special anymore. Look at their other titles, says all you need to know! Video games shouldn't be an important part of peoples lives, just something fun to do now and again.

That's just ridiculous. Why isn't there somebody on the KONAMI team that is held responsible for this very role. Stats and formations and playing styles are probably the most important facet of the game. But it shouldn't be left to the person in the street who has just shelled out £40 to put right should it?
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Well look at what FIFA has been doing with members of it's community being database researches. How is that any different to what happens with PES? really and look how much money EA have and that's the best they can do :)

There should be a guy in charge, or a team, of getting all this stuff accurate. You'll have disputes obviously, but the point here is that I know more about football and probably watch more football worldwide than KONAMI. So do most posters here. Why can't they get the extreme teams right for example? Why in 2012, can they not make Barcelona play like Barcelona, out of the box? Why can't ANY team keep the ball and pass it about for more than five seconds of game time?
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You need to take into consideration. How many different teams there are in the world, how many different playing styles and how each individual players within each team depending on is tactics. Oh, should we just work on Barca, or try and provide as much tools as possible so whatever new tactic emerges can be replicated in the game.

Konami could work hard and develop a precise tactic for one team, then again, how many people playing the game are looking for this anyway? FIFA players have been doing this since 2009 with Custom tactics, they make fuck all difference but they still persist which i actually admire them for. PES players expect his to be done by magic. but yet moan and moan about no enough realism.

The other day I conceded a headed goal to one of the games scripted lofted wing through balls, so I put defensive line lower and compactness more outwards so that the right back couldn't be prone to it...three headed goals more later, and I was still scratching my head as to how to counter something that just couldn't be countered. As soon as the lofted through balls were coming in STILL my full backs were letting it go, for another cross for the CPU player to score a header as my CB's ran completely the other way!
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This isn't much different to me yesterday and after 5 minutes i wondered why the fuck Fulham where dominating when they where playing 4-4-2 compared to my 4-3-2-1, How i set players to man mark, it made little difference. I then set players to play a high line, set offside trap auto on, and put pressure up high so when Kasami and Murphy picked it up from deep i hassled the ball off them.

I won 3-1 btw :)

You say you dropped your team back and expanded the compactivness. Well you should know playing a deep line, invites the opposition to attack. So you run the risk of their crosses being scored.

Stop their midfield working and they won't get into crossing positions in the first place, that's what i did yesterday!

Scripts? Well, maybe I'm mistaken, this is a dumb video game, video games and the AI is fundamentally fucking stupid. it cannot form intelligent decisions on the fly depending on what it perceives.

Football is a game based so much on perception, considering a computer cannot see, it's just programmed to react to 'set' situations. Why expect the defence to do most the work for you?

it just responds to programming commands. I expect stupidness from AI, i expect shit out of my hand to happen. it's a dumb game, games should be easy because if your handle them tactically they can't adjust.
 
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The only difference would be created players and stadia, I'm sure the kits bar the Championship teams are the same. I like the patch better definitely.
 
Oh my lord, I've just scored an L1 Chip shot from long-range. Different technique this time, it was scored facing straight on, it was with Petrov though, so it was perfect for the left peg, in fact that was the only option. Spotted the keeper off his line, took a touch, kept it close to me for the natural lift, (Sprinting wouldn't have worked) then 3/4 power and aimed towards the far top corner. And that was all she wrote. Fucking incredible shooting mechanics this, you can pull off any technique you know from real football and apply it the very same way, and it's a treat. Probably my best goal ever on this, mainly because I meant every single part. It wasn't a 'laces' strike, it was controlled and placed from range.

I'm having a nightmare in my ML, playing well but not getting the rub of the green and losing games and leads a lot at the minute. I truly have deserved more, but that's football. Just had my first warning from the Chairman, I'm second bottom. Playing Cardiff away as we speak, Riberio brought in for a Purple Tamudo scored early after an R2 turn and a maxed out R2 Chip shot (not L1 Chip, this was a floater ) put Boro 1-0 up. Cardiff equalised and then Petrov has just scored that amazing long-range chip. Never been possible this before, the shot technique that is.

Anyway back to my match, my job is hanging by a thread and I'm in danger of losing the team I've spent 4 seasons putting together and adopting my philosophy. The stakes most certainly have been raised.....

Video to follow.......

Edit -

Wow, what a pulsating match that was, it ended 3-3. Cardiff has gone 3-2 up, and I learnt a valuable lesson in what can happen if you choose CB to do a Man-Marking job instead of a DMF. Riberio got the equaliser after Boro won a corner after a stunning Petrov free-kick from range was picked out of the top bag by the Cardiff No.1. The resulting corner saw Petrov pick out Riberio, his 92 Heading Accuracy did the rest. I'll upload the Highlights to the Football Life thread of that game. Classic.

Here is that goal, I love everything about it. What made it possible, was the fact the ball was kept very close to Petrov's feet, almost at a stand-still. This gave him the option to 'dig it out' and get underneath it, this in turn took away the power and exchanged it for accuracy. This is the type of stuff that I'm talking about, that is perfect replication of that exact real-life technique. As far as I'm concerned, we have no right to expect that type of reproduction. It's not just shooting though, it's across Zero Assisted passing and dribbling and on and on.

Take it away Petrov .....

YouTube - PES 12 Shooting Techniques
 
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Me to, I worked with them at Fubar in Sterling, Carlton Studios in Edinburgh and Galactica at York or Ripon Racecourse. Awesome P.A., great times. :)
 
Working with them? Was last at the Carlton Stuidos back in 09 was driving Kev Energy to it somecunt decided to go mental with the foam fire extinguisher and got the place shut down early haha. They do the odd old skool night at the Fubar as well these days although they aint a patch on what it used to be like.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Working with them? Was last at the Carlton Stuidos back in 09 was driving Kev Energy to it somecunt decided to go mental with the foam fire extinguisher and got the place shut down early haha. They do the odd old skool night at the Fubar as well these days although they aint a patch on what it used to be like.
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Sorry for the Off Topic.
Yeah, I was MC'ing on that event and MC'ed for them instead of Mikey B (hate that prick), I ended up doing most of the night actually. Had a blast, it was 1992, I was only 17-18 years old, up on stage working with the best P.A.'s and Dj's in the country, in front of 16,000 ravers. It was madness, and that's how it all started. You'll see my name at the bottom of the flyer. The very last name, but I was more than happy with that. :TU: :LOL:

37ac0e2810e51c44f58e53c44843a607.jpg
 
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Yep, that one.....

I have a gig a week Saturday actually, first one I've accepted in 18 months. They billed the night around my Birthday Bash, should be a crazy night. It's Old Skool all the way.... :)
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Yep, that one.....

I have a gig a week Saturday actually, first one I've accepted in 18 months. They billed the night around my Birthday Bash, should be a crazy night. It's Old Skool all the way.... :)
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Haha nice one, Used to get down to every Judgement Day from 95 till the very end. The NE turned into Makina central though eh even when Hardcore kicked off again in 01 it just didnt happen in the NE which was a pity.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Haha nice one, Used to get down to every Judgement Day from 95 till the very end. The NE turned into Makina central though eh even when Hardcore kicked off again in 01 it just didnt happen in the NE which was a pity.
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:WOOT: Awesome night's, Bass Generator had a great event going there. Loved them, crazy atmosphere.
 
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