PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

LTFC said:
Unfortunately I think that's a side effect of not having terribly advanced AI. That's not a dig at PES, it's the same across the board with most sports titles. Making people physically stronger and faster had long been the staple way for programmers to differentiate between players who are 'good', 'average, and 'poor'.

I'm sure one day there'll be a good representation of ability between players but until that day we're stuck with physical stats dominating over everything else.
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The thing is you actually can do it with the current PES engine or at least get closer than I think Konami think they can.

By raising the teamwork of the best teams to the high 80's and then these range down to the mid to high 70's for lower teams combined with a realistic difference is skill stats like passing speed, accuracy and ball control, you can get to point where the physical side of players is about realistically what it should be and the quality of the team you are playing against dictates how well they play against you and how hard a game it is, rather than the physical short commings of your own team.
 
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Chimps-with-quiffs said:
The thing is you actually can do it with the current PES engine or at least get closer than I think Konami think they can.

By raising the teamwork of the best teams to the high 80's and then these range down to the mid to high 70's for lower teams combined with a realistic difference is skill stats like passing speed and quality you can get to point where the physical side of players is about realistically what it should be and the quality of the team you are playing against dictates how well they play against you and how hard a game it is, rather than the physical shot commings of your own team.
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I totally agree Chimps. This is why KONAMI need to poolk together the best talents if their own team cannot do it or be bothered to do it. You for example spend probably hundreds of hours tinkering with stats of each individual person on the PS3, and so you have pride shining through that you got Berbatov right, or Aguero etc etc. This is the kind of detail that needs to be implemented. The stats are ONE of the biggest things in making the gameplay work; without accurate stats that go hand in hand with the engine and the type of football you want the game to show off, the game becomes a mess.

Your PS3 editing has been stunning. But you can't do anything about scripted loften through balls for example, or the general scripting at the higher levels.

On the PC, a few memebers have been chip chipping away at the exe files to make the game better. I have mixed for instance, a remix version 1.3 patch of Yair/Nesa combined with Jenkey's stuff to get the best possible game that I can muster. BUT, the PC version lacks the type of individual player love and attention that you provide on the PS3 for example!

Really, I simply cannot understand KONAMI, but even a month after their out of the box mess was released we had brilliant community people doing everything from stadiums, to hd textures, to gameplay patches, to kits and player faces, etc etc.

ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS I WOULD HAVE DONE IF I WAS SEABASS WAS SAY RIGHT I'M GOING ON THESE FORUMS TO SEE WHAT TYPE OF MAGIC ORDINARY PEOPLE CAN COME UP WITH.

The stuff that the community has done is a hundred times better than the KONAMI development team.

I would say right, 'who's this Klash character, and Chimps, and Jenkey and Yair etc' and ALL the crews that bring out masses of product improvement in terms of gameplay, graphics and kits. Get them all together all expenses paid, and gather the best of the brains in different departments. Fk me, Chimps you could be the 'Stat Consultant' or something, and your sole purpose would be to get all the stats right for each individual as well as blending them into a teamwork frame which works.

And the same for Jenky and Yair etc who do the gameplay stuff. It's not fkin rocket science. The problem is, is that I honestly think us on the forums know a hundred thousand times more about football than KONAMI. We live and breath it, I watched some Brazilian fkin game a couple of nights ago at one in the morning for fk's sake!! Why? Because it was on, and I love football.

If anyone wants proof that the current engine AND current game CAN work, then I can provide full matches of Chimps stuff on the PS3 and Jenkey's/Yair's on the PC. There are aspects wrong with the game I am not saying, but honestly KONAMI and mot people on these forums are only getting about 60% out of this game I reckon. I played a game yesterday a Europa second leg tie, with all my settings coming together, and it was heaven. Both from me and the CPU. Full blown sim, zero assist, Superstar with gameplay at 90 speed, and lots of other things tweaked.

KONAMI really have shot themselves in the foiot just by not appreciating THEIR OWN GAME and what can be achieved in it with some love and care of players stats, less scripting, and good tactical setups.
 
I really believe in next PES but with new engine. Right now i'm sceptical because i can not imagine new tech with old limited engine. New tech with good engine for sure but with old engine no to much. How KONAMI want compete with EA? without basic like engine? I don't know.
 
Not sure if it's going to change anything but Jim Beglin's contract with ITV will not be renewed after Euro 2012.

Maybe the fact that Beglin will not be commentating on mainstream television any more may force Konami's hand to look for a replacement.
 
Im wondering how can you enjoy this game when the CPU AI is the most mediocre I have ever seen in a sports video game!

The way I concede goals and the way I score goals just show how bad the AI programmaing of PES 2012 is.

The way my defense Collapse, the way my CB are out of position and does not mark the player around them, how my full back plays men on side just shows how bad the game is and the flaws are obviously wanted.
 
I am very happy with PES 2012, apart from some strict & annoying refereeing. I felt that the AI is simple to defeat, I felt as Germany, I could trounce Sweden, but I had a man sent off & got beat 4-2. Same with AC Milan, a weaker team beat me again. I have no complaints. In real football, you play poor, 9 times out of 10, you get beat. Same in the game. I drew 1-1 at Wembley against England as Japan. But 90% of my 2nd half was defending. Some 'hardcore' gamers may complain at its ease, but I feel they need to get out more, & enjoy PES casually, instead of working out the mechanics of the game. I hope PES 2013 is similar, but will buy WE 2012 in preparation for the J.League DLC. Mainly as I've literally waited years on it coming to PS3
 
I have one problem (I play on PC),

On my last Gameday I get fired and I have no Backup, is there any way to secure this save?
 
yair25 said:
no new engine,no new animation engine,no pes2013 for me.
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I made an attempt through Jon Murphy's PES Facebook account to get some kind of feedback on the work of people in the community and mentioned your stuff and jenkeys.I have had no reply from him, but others on there agreed about getting the community involved in PES2013 on there.

I would to be able to combine people's work that has been done on the pc and ps3
 
ccshopland said:
I totally agree Chimps. This is why KONAMI need to poolk together the best talents if their own team cannot do it or be bothered to do it. You for example spend probably hundreds of hours tinkering with stats of each individual person on the PS3, and so you have pride shining through that you got Berbatov right, or Aguero etc etc. This is the kind of detail that needs to be implemented. The stats are ONE of the biggest things in making the gameplay work; without accurate stats that go hand in hand with the engine and the type of football you want the game to show off, the game becomes a mess.

Your PS3 editing has been stunning. But you can't do anything about scripted loften through balls for example, or the general scripting at the higher levels.

On the PC, a few memebers have been chip chipping away at the exe files to make the game better. I have mixed for instance, a remix version 1.3 patch of Yair/Nesa combined with Jenkey's stuff to get the best possible game that I can muster. BUT, the PC version lacks the type of individual player love and attention that you provide on the PS3 for example!

Really, I simply cannot understand KONAMI, but even a month after their out of the box mess was released we had brilliant community people doing everything from stadiums, to hd textures, to gameplay patches, to kits and player faces, etc etc.

ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS I WOULD HAVE DONE IF I WAS SEABASS WAS SAY RIGHT I'M GOING ON THESE FORUMS TO SEE WHAT TYPE OF MAGIC ORDINARY PEOPLE CAN COME UP WITH.

The stuff that the community has done is a hundred times better than the KONAMI development team.

I would say right, 'who's this Klash character, and Chimps, and Jenkey and Yair etc' and ALL the crews that bring out masses of product improvement in terms of gameplay, graphics and kits. Get them all together all expenses paid, and gather the best of the brains in different departments. Fk me, Chimps you could be the 'Stat Consultant' or something, and your sole purpose would be to get all the stats right for each individual as well as blending them into a teamwork frame which works.

And the same for Jenky and Yair etc who do the gameplay stuff. It's not fkin rocket science. The problem is, is that I honestly think us on the forums know a hundred thousand times more about football than KONAMI. We live and breath it, I watched some Brazilian fkin game a couple of nights ago at one in the morning for fk's sake!! Why? Because it was on, and I love football.

If anyone wants proof that the current engine AND current game CAN work, then I can provide full matches of Chimps stuff on the PS3 and Jenkey's/Yair's on the PC. There are aspects wrong with the game I am not saying, but honestly KONAMI and mot people on these forums are only getting about 60% out of this game I reckon. I played a game yesterday a Europa second leg tie, with all my settings coming together, and it was heaven. Both from me and the CPU. Full blown sim, zero assist, Superstar with gameplay at 90 speed, and lots of other things tweaked.

KONAMI really have shot themselves in the foiot just by not appreciating THEIR OWN GAME and what can be achieved in it with some love and care of players stats, less scripting, and good tactical setups.
Click to expand...

It's crazy to think they have people taking so much time to improve their game and they are so far, ignored. I work in software development for a company that does annual world wide releases like konami do. I know how much it would cost to pay someone to do what I do because of how long it takes and even then the chances are they wouldnt be doing it with the passion and pride in the game that people in the community have
 
Man this place is as crazy as ever.

Been away for a while and haven't touched PES for quite a while too. Back on it today and the game's fun again.

Haven't been reading anything, but I'm guessing this 1.03 patch did something good. Played about 5 games, lost 4 on superstar and won 1 on professional.

I need to get back to the training ground again.
 
can somebody explain?
played 6 games yesterday afternoon after not playing pes for 2 weeks
anyway in four of those games quick matches online a message said lost connection with other user in 3 games i was awarded a 3-0 win and in one match a 3-0 was given against me even tho i didnt quit this game quit at the formation screen.

to cut a long story short i now get a message that says my completion rate has fallen below 70% i am banned from all competitions blah blah
i played some more matches last night and again 3 people quit because i was winning or rather scored 3 own goals so improper conduct came up
yet i am still on less than 70% completion rate despite me not quitting a match in the last 20 games.
WTF is going on konami why am i being banned when i aint doing jack.
what with the scripting the bias and shit ai of my defenders cus i dont play with barca madrid and ac milan, this has got to be the most fustrating pes game ever.
all i want one year from konami is for them just to fix the obvious faults of the previous years version insted of another new version with the same old faults!!!
 
johnking said:
can somebody explain?
played 6 games yesterday afternoon after not playing pes for 2 weeks
anyway in four of those games quick matches online a message said lost connection with other user in 3 games i was awarded a 3-0 win and in one match a 3-0 was given against me even tho i didnt quit this game quit at the formation screen.

to cut a long story short i now get a message that says my completion rate has fallen below 70% i am banned from all competitions blah blah
i played some more matches last night and again 3 people quit because i was winning or rather scored 3 own goals so improper conduct came up
yet i am still on less than 70% completion rate despite me not quitting a match in the last 20 games.
WTF is going on konami why am i being banned when i aint doing jack.
what with the scripting the bias and shit ai of my defenders cus i dont play with barca madrid and ac milan, this has got to be the most fustrating pes game ever.
all i want one year from konami is for them just to fix the obvious faults of the previous years version insted of another new version with the same old faults!!!
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That's odd, your best bet would be to contact Konami's support in the UK.
 
lazyForken said:
Im wondering how can you enjoy this game when the CPU AI is the most mediocre I have ever seen in a sports video game!

The way I concede goals and the way I score goals just show how bad the AI programmaing of PES 2012 is.

The way my defense Collapse, the way my CB are out of position and does not mark the player around them, how my full back plays men on side just shows how bad the game is and the flaws are obviously wanted.
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Totally agree! I posted this in another thread but in support of your point, I created 5 vids that show in detail the exact thing you discuss here. Vids 2-5 really get into the nitty gritty of this defensive AI issue.

YouTube - PES 2012 Single Player Issues Part 1
 
Chimps-with-quiffs said:
I made an attempt through Jon Murphy's PES Facebook account to get some kind of feedback on the work of people in the community and mentioned your stuff and jenkeys.I have had no reply from him, but others on there agreed about getting the community involved in PES2013 on there.

I would to be able to combine people's work that has been done on the pc and ps3
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Chimps, you and the other comminuty folks do amazing work and it is appreciated. However, I wouldn't hold my breath on Konami officially embracing your efforts and/or implementing them in future PES releases. It's a Japanese thing which I've seen through my professional life for years. For such a technically advanced society, they are incredibly closed to the outside world (at least in an official capacity). They will study the sh!t out of what you do, and will make every effort to copy it, but will never invite you in. This would be an admission of failure and inferiority that is a big no-no in Japanese culture. If Konami were an American company, you would have been contact, wined and dined a long time ago. We Yanks have absolutely no pride in this arena, so long as there are $$$ to be made!:COOL:
 
think about pes without Chimps,juce,jenkey,and me, think about it for one minute and tell me if you still see yourself play this game, i can tell you that i don't, i am really mad at konami, what they done, they try to block me with some kind of protection on the exe file, can someone tell why they did that? we are trying to fix their problems and what we get in return is just nothing, and i really don't want anything from they just let us save this beloved game of football.
 
Yes I do play this game without any of the above mentioned. And I'm really enjoying it. This is no disrespect to you guys though. You do put some amazing effort and many like it.

I kind of realized that I enjoyed PES more by not reading any posts here.

Heh.
 
yair25 said:
think about pes without Chimps,juce,jenkey,and me, think about it for one minute and tell me if you still see yourself play this game, i can tell you that i don't, i am really mad at konami, what they done, they try to block me with some kind of protection on the exe file, can someone tell why they did that? we are trying to fix their problems and what we get in return is just nothing, and i really don't want anything from they just let us save this beloved game of football.
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I guess it could be they dont want anyone messing with their pride and joy which lets face it is fair enough even if it does benefit many.
 
Yeah respect to all the editors and so forth but I prefer to play the game that Konmai releases without any editing of the player stats or gameplay changes.

@flawed logic its not about pride and joy its the fact that many prefer the balance that Konami has as opposed to the patching / editing community.
Not knocking their work its just my preference and quite a few of the playing community.
 
zeemeister said:
Yeah respect to all the editors and so forth but I prefer to play the game that Konmai releases without any editing of the player stats or gameplay changes.

@flawed logic its not about pride and joy its the fact that many prefer the balance that Konami has as opposed to the patching / editing community.
Not knocking their work its just my preference and quite a few of the playing community.
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I'm with you mate, i play with Konami's gameplay. I find it more balanced than any gameplay patches i've used. But its all about people preferences and perceptions.
 
I play the game using Chimps tweaks as a means of improving my own experience of the game, but am well aware that it is not for all. I don't have huge problems with Konami's defaults bar the stuff that is beyond fixing with tweaks and is well documented.

What Konami should take from these guys efforts is not that they ''fix'' the game, but that there is a case to be made to allow more tools in-game for the user to customise the gameplay experience. They introduced speed settings in PES2011, now expand upon that so as the likes of Chimps, Yair & Jenky have a more friendly, flexible environment to work in.

In NBA2K12 you have sliders for everything. Not only does that game have a game speed modifier that scales 0-100, but it has a set of sliders that allow you to further tune the players attributes within the game speed chosen. Player quickness, for example can be adjusted so you could have the game speed set at 50 but general player quickness within that speed set at 40; they still have their individual stats so a player could have 96 for speed/drive, just that these individual player stats operate within that base quickness of 40.

Think of it this way :

- Game Speed dictates ball speed and overall pace of the game.
- Player Quickness found under Gameplay Attributes Sliders dictates the general speed of players in relation the chosen Game Speed.
- Individual Player Speed stat dictates how quick a player is in relation to those around him within the parameters above.

I also like how in NBA2K you can then adjust offensive and defensive specifics around the basic gameplay modifications. An example here is that within Gameplay Attributes sliders, there is a slider for Vert. Jump, so you could make players jumping collectively better - while still having individual stats play their part - but by going into Offensive Sliders you could adjust Jump Shot Success and Contact Shot Success, while going into Defensive Sliders you could tweak Blocking or Help Defense Strength. Then you can go into a slider set which dictates frequency of fouls in each area of the court. Essentially, the sliders in that game allow you tweak just about anything, meaning if such was in place in PES, Chimps wouldn't need to tweak players individually, but work using these 50+ gameplay sliders alone. Of course - should he or anyone else wish to - they could make further tweaks to individual players, just that it becomes less of a requirement if there is a set of tools that make collective adjustments to how the game plays in general.

@''Genuis'' - another weird swipe at fellow community members.
 
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yair25 said:
think about pes without Chimps,juce,jenkey,and me, think about it for one minute and tell me if you still see yourself play this game, i can tell you that i don't, i am really mad at konami, what they done, they try to block me with some kind of protection on the exe file, can someone tell why they did that? we are trying to fix their problems and what we get in return is just nothing, and i really don't want anything from they just let us save this beloved game of football.
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I thought portions of no-dvd .exe files are 'specially protected' by reloaded, with their encryption located in rld.dll file. Not by Konami itself (standard securom measures aside).
 
i played this on 360 for the first time in a long time. Have been playing on PC. Xbox was much more fluid and responsive vs the cpu.. i dont know if its the resolution on the game, or what, but it played pretty fun 2 v cpu on the 360... PC sometimes seem non responsive, even the player individuality was more pronounced on xbox.. man i hate this, LOL. But i had a blast
 
gomito#10 said:
i played this on 360 for the first time in a long time. Have been playing on PC. Xbox was much more fluid and responsive vs the cpu.. i dont know if its the resolution on the game, or what, but it played pretty fun 2 v cpu on the 360... PC sometimes seem non responsive, even the player individuality was more pronounced on xbox.. man i hate this, LOL. But i had a blast
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I've only played the 360 and PS3 versions and there is no doubt the 360 version looks and plays better. Surprised to hear you thought the 360 version was better than PC.
 
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