PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

makky said:
Well I'm really enjoying this game. I'm playing as West Bromwich Albion in a completely unassisted passing league. The games are so intense just like the old days. This game totally outclasses PES 2011 in so many ways. I'm not saying it's perfect. Far from it, but like i've said before many times they are completely heading in the right direction with this. So if 2013 is even better then that's a good thing. You cannot even remotely compare this iteration to it's predecessor. It is completely different on so many levels. At this moment in time the negativity on this thread is contributing to damaging the franchise not enhancing it. It's a game ffs enjoy it for all it's little flaws because looking forward to 2013 already is surely going to end up with disappointment.
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It's all subjective though, and down to personal taste. What you consider little flaws are game-breaking and plain unacceptable for others. When you compare PES2012 to what the rest of the gaming industry has to offer, it's almost embarrassing how archaic the game looks, sounds and feels.

So I can't enjoy a game that I don't particularly like and I'm pretty much finished with PES2012, hence why I'm looking ahead to PES2013. While I've told myself not to get involved in the hype, the rumours of a new engine has peeked my interest,

You're right, you can't compare this generation of PES to the last. This one has been one long disappointment - a woeful display by Seabass and his team - whereas back in the PS2 days I was playing the best football game bar none. I'd buy PES every year safe in the knowledge that it was going to be something special - and it always was. You say Konami are headed in the right direction with PES2012? I don't agree. The game has gone backwards in many ways since PES2010, worryingly so. Classic PES games used to spend most of the year in my PS2 drive, modern PES spends most of the year in the case. That's what it comes down to in the end. The game has lost its appeal for me.

Finally, the negativity (or positivity for that matter) in this thread has no impact on PES at all. It's just a discussion forum, nothing more.
 
AntrAcsA said:
Well.. yeah ! I do not know, but if he doing this to strengthen interesting to his site, will be.. bad !
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Sorry to spoil the party, but you have unfortunately taken a quote completely out of context. I think you mistranslated?

Adam said:
Many things really. From a unique online experience, to it's severe marketing campaign focused completely on incredible visuals and impressive realistic animations and tech.
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The above was said when conversation turned to Battlefield 3 and COD comparison, and how well EA did pre-launch with their game.

One person said something like 'look what EA did with Battlefield 3' (As in how they brought it into our mindset). Someone asked what he exactly meant, and the quote above was the response.

Absolutely no mention of PES 2013 engine. Please be more careful AntrAcsA, I don't want people to get upset with us when it simply wasn't us saying anything.

NOTE: I'm not quashing the idea of a new engine, just what has been said here about comparing BF3 to PES 2013.
 
curdstar said:
Sorry to spoil the party, but you have unfortunately taken a quote completely out of context. I think you mistranslated?
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I may not understand exactly things about BF 3 and PES 2013, ok .
Please be more careful AntrAcsA, I don't want people to get upset with us when it simply wasn't us saying anything.
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I take this note ;) Just maybe we really want some news about PES 2013 now and we looking for everything about it.

So for WENB . Before Adam hints about the new engine , his (or your's)site is visited by 3, 4 hard core WENB fans . That mean low traffic , no money from ads ;)
Now began to talk about these things for new engine and how PES 2013 will be different, unique and his (or your's)site is bursting at the seams. Sought to increased interest in the site and he (or you) do it.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I have to doubt though ;)
 
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makky said:
Well I'm really enjoying this game. I'm playing as West Bromwich Albion in a completely unassisted passing league. The games are so intense just like the old days. This game totally outclasses PES 2011 in so many ways. I'm not saying it's perfect. Far from it, but like i've said before many times they are completely heading in the right direction with this. So if 2013 is even better then that's a good thing. You cannot even remotely compare this iteration to it's predecessor. It is completely different on so many levels. At this moment in time the negativity on this thread is contributing to damaging the franchise not enhancing it. It's a game ffs enjoy it for all it's little flaws because looking forward to 2013 already is surely going to end up with disappointment.
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The game is challenging and any challenging game is fun even on your mobile phone. But that's not the point, i did not spend 300 euros for a ps3 for a challenging game. I want the full package, presentation, gameplay, on line etc etc. Other than the challenging aspect the game is a broken mess. I am left to wonder what the hell did they do for 12 months.

Menu, audio, stadia and game modes= same as pes 2011 with some cutscenes in the ML, a new commentantor in some languages and what? 2,3 more stadia? 2 weeks of work tops (lads here produce tool in 2 days that are magnificient)?

Visual and Animation have deteriorated significantly (probably for performance issue i guess).

so 12 months of almost only gameplay programming for what? all cpu players feeling all like maradona? stinky shooting? bad keepers? inconsistent passing?

I mean let's hope they are working behind the scene for a new engine because i won't buy pes 2013 if it is the same old shit as pes 2012.
 
Ektor70 said:
The game is challenging and any challenging game is fun even on your mobile phone. But that's not the point, i did not spend 300 euros for a ps3 for a challenging game. I want the full package, presentation, gameplay, on line etc etc. Other than the challenging aspect the game is a broken mess. I am left to wonder what the hell did they do for 12 months.

Menu, audio, stadia and game modes= same as pes 2011 with some cutscenes in the ML, a new commentantor in some languages and what? 2,3 more stadia? 2 weeks of work tops (lads here produce tool in 2 days that are magnificient)?

Visual and Animation have deteriorated significantly (probably for performance issue i guess).

so 12 months of almost only gameplay programming for what? all cpu players feeling all like maradona? stinky shooting? bad keepers? inconsistent passing?

I mean let's hope they are working behind the scene for a new engine because i won't buy pes 2013 if it is the same old shit as pes 2012.
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Good point. I agree with much of the writing,but not with all
 
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makky said:
Well I'm really enjoying this game. I'm playing as West Bromwich Albion in a completely unassisted passing league. The games are so intense just like the old days. This game totally outclasses PES 2011 in so many ways. I'm not saying it's perfect. Far from it, but like i've said before many times they are completely heading in the right direction with this. So if 2013 is even better then that's a good thing. You cannot even remotely compare this iteration to it's predecessor. It is completely different on so many levels. At this moment in time the negativity on this thread is contributing to damaging the franchise not enhancing it. It's a game ffs enjoy it for all it's little flaws because looking forward to 2013 already is surely going to end up with disappointment.
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I'm with you Makky, this version is very much like the PES 5's of this world. What I mean by that is it takes an awful long time to even begin to delve into the games depth and see it's inner beauty. I absolutely love this game, and it is, on Zero Assistance, the most compelling and simulated version of PES ever.

It is a million miles away from the pick-up-and-play arcade feel of the likes of PES 6. The problem is, in my opinion, it's too deep for the average gamer. I truly believe that. It's ridicously under-rated. Also, I've never played a PES game where the CPU Ai gives me more of a challenge than a human. I rarely play online now, and that's testament to the games amazing offline experience.

When I read that 'the game is shit', 'Konami have fucked up' blah blah blah, I'm literally gobsmacked. :CONFUSE:
 
...and I'm completely gobsmacked by what you've just written. I respect your opinion as always, but it's polar opposite to mine, and if I'm honest, I find your views rather patronising and full of disdain.

I'm a long time football fan, gamer and football gamer. I love games that offer depth and simulation, which is why I was drawn to the ISS and PES games right from the very beginning. PES2012 is simply the most shallow, one dimensional and scripted PES I've ever played, and you're placing it higher than the mighty PES5? Come on now, think about what you have just typed.

One day Seabass will produce a worthy next-gen PES and make you look a bit silly.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
I'm with you Makky, this version is very much like the PES 5's of this world. What I mean by that is it takes an awful long time to even begin to delve into the games depth and see it's inner beauty. I absolutely love this game, and it is, on Zero Assistance, the most compelling and simulated version of PES ever.

It is a million miles away from the pick-up-and-play arcade feel of the likes of PES 6. The problem is, in my opinion, it's too deep for the average gamer. I truly believe that. It's ridicously under-rated. Also, I've never played a PES game where the CPU Ai gives me more of a challenge than a human. I rarely play online now, and that's testament to the games amazing offline experience.

When I read that 'the game is shit', 'Konami have fucked up' blah blah blah, I'm literally gobsmacked. :CONFUSE:
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i think pes 2012 deserves opening a thread called "happy with PES 2012" thread" lol
it's a very good game indeed "at least for me" it has so much depth and it's very addictive but u have to pass through a way too long "frustration" stage but again it far from perfect .
and from all the negativity i see over most of the pes forums i've come to conclusion that the great majority of the moaners come to forums to post their negativity about the game while the great majority of those who love and addict the game actually are busy playing the game exept some of them stick to the editing forum to share their pc editing work for pes 2012 and others come to get them . only minority of those who love the game have some time to come here to discuss the game against the army of moaners .
 
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I have to say I'm a little gobsmacked too. To suggest that anyone who doesn't like the direction Konami took PES this year somehow doesn't 'understand' the depth of the game is a little offensive to a lot of people.

I also don't agree with some suggestions on here that PES2012 is basically the same game as in 2011. I think it's vastly different in AI, look, feel, everything. They are poles apart.

But getting back to the issue of PES2012 being a simulation, I just don't see it this year. It feels like it's taken a step backwards in terms of player individuality, the pace of the game feels all wrong, ie. too fast and end to end. How can anyone call this a simulation when matches either online or against the AI often result in gaping big holes in midfield and both teams galloping end to end with the ball by sprinting 40 yards at a time beause the AI has vacated the midfield and pulled them all deep onto the edge of their own box? Or how can the AI be seen as part of any kind of 'simulation' when it repeatedly scores the same goals via set routines, and allows you the vast majority of possession over every 90 minutes you play regardless of whether you're playing a D2 team or Barcelona? Or how can the game be viewed as realistic when stamina plays absolutely no part in the game whatsoever?

Every game I played offline or online was all based around counter attacking, whether from you, the CPU or online player, and almost non-existant midfield play. The pacing of player dribbling, pace of the ball, positional play and negative CPU counter attacking tactics made the game feel repetitive beyond compare for this series.

I'm not going to argue the points of PES2012 any more than that, but I totally disagree that because someone doesn't like the game and doesn't find it to be the most realistic version yet then we somehow don't understand the depth and finer points of games, or football.

For what it's worth, I agree PES6 was far more arcade like, but was also a long time ago now. I certainly don't hold any rose tinted glasses to that game but since PES5 I'd argue that simulation, or realism, went out the window for every version bar PES2011. That finally went in the right direction but 2012 has taken another massive step backwards.

I remember the one and only online game I played which was like an online version of high speed basketball. Crossing was pin-point every time, players were sprinting 40-50 yards with the ball, it didn't feel like football. Yes, I know some use the Evo Leagues to get a decent game but the fact is that too many of the bad points from online are actually present in offline, too. The way the game plays actually reminded me of PES2009, during which I played about ten games and returned it to the shop because all sense of simulation had gone from the game. Being able to sprint up and down the wing with no detriment to stamina with Ronaldinho in 2009 has almost not changed in 2012. Only the player names are different in this regard.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
I'm with you Makky, this version is very much like the PES 5's of this world. What I mean by that is it takes an awful long time to even begin to delve into the games depth and see it's inner beauty. I absolutely love this game, and it is, on Zero Assistance, the most compelling and simulated version of PES ever.

It is a million miles away from the pick-up-and-play arcade feel of the likes of PES 6. The problem is, in my opinion, it's too deep for the average gamer. I truly believe that. It's ridicously under-rated. Also, I've never played a PES game where the CPU Ai gives me more of a challenge than a human. I rarely play online now, and that's testament to the games amazing offline experience.

When I read that 'the game is shit', 'Konami have fucked up' blah blah blah, I'm literally gobsmacked. :CONFUSE:
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Jesus, it used to be that people that did not like PES 2012 didnt understand football (yet Messi, Pique, Rooney, Darren Bent etc etc all play the other other game, Surly they know a thing or two about football?) now it's we dont like PES cause were shit gamers, Your unbelievable your arrogance has no limits!!!

Jamezinho said:
One day Seabass will produce a worthy next-gen PES and make you look a bit silly.
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Here's hoping the old dog can pull it off!
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Jesus, it used to be that people that did not like PES 2012 didnt understand football (yet Messi, Pique, Rooney, Darren Bent etc etc all play the other other game, Surly they know a thing or two about football?)
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and even if all players in the world play fifa , it will always remain a very good arcade video game with great animations and amazing commentary but it has nothing to do with football.
 
LTFC said:
I have to say I'm a little gobsmacked too. To suggest that anyone who doesn't like the direction Konami took PES this year somehow doesn't 'understand' the depth of the game is a little offensive to a lot of people.

I also don't agree with some suggestions on here that PES2012 is basically the same game as in 2011. I think it's vastly different in AI, look, feel, everything. They are poles apart.

But getting back to the issue of PES2012 being a simulation, I just don't see it this year. It feels like it's taken a step backwards in terms of player individuality, the pace of the game feels all wrong, ie. too fast and end to end. How can anyone call this a simulation when matches either online or against the AI often result in gaping big holes in midfield and both teams galloping end to end with the ball by sprinting 40 yards at a time beause the AI has vacated the midfield and pulled them all deep onto the edge of their own box? Or how can the AI be seen as part of any kind of 'simulation' when it repeatedly scores the same goals via set routines, and allows you the vast majority of possession over every 90 minutes you play regardless of whether you're playing a D2 team or Barcelona? Or how can the game be viewed as realistic when stamina plays absolutely no part in the game whatsoever?

Every game I played offline or online was all based around counter attacking, whether from you, the CPU or online player, and almost non-existant midfield play. The pacing of player dribbling, pace of the ball, positional play and negative CPU counter attacking tactics made the game feel repetitive beyond compare for this series.

I'm not going to argue the points of PES2012 any more than that, but I totally disagree that because someone doesn't like the game and doesn't find it to be the most realistic version yet then we somehow don't understand the depth and finer points of games, or football.

For what it's worth, I agree PES6 was far more arcade like, but was also a long time ago now. I certainly don't hold any rose tinted glasses to that game but since PES5 I'd argue that simulation, or realism, went out the window for every version bar PES2011. That finally went in the right direction but 2012 has taken another massive step backwards.

I remember the one and only online game I played which was like an online version of high speed basketball. Crossing was pin-point every time, players were sprinting 40-50 yards with the ball, it didn't feel like football. Yes, I know some use the Evo Leagues to get a decent game but the fact is that too many of the bad points from online are actually present in offline, too. The way the game plays actually reminded me of PES2009, during which I played about ten games and returned it to the shop because all sense of simulation had gone from the game. Being able to sprint up and down the wing with no detriment to stamina with Ronaldinho in 2009 has almost not changed in 2012. Only the player names are different in this regard.
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100% agreed.

PES2012 is a very tangible backwards step from PES2011. Also, I actually think there was a lot to like about PES2010. While it lacked the subsequent fluidity and freedom of PES2011, what it did have was excellent player individuality, more varied animations compared to 2011 & 2012 (see Klash's videos) and stunning visuals. I have quite fond memories of that game.

hany3 said:
and even if all players in the world play fifa , it will always remain a very good arcade video game with great animations and amazing commentary but it has nothing to do with football.
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It's getting closer to a proper simulation than PES is. Once EA focus more on the nuances of football - individuality, first touch, correct foot, tactics - then why would anyone in their right mind buy PES?

Fifa is closer to simulation than people give it credit for.
 
Jamezinho said:
It's getting closer to a proper simulation than PES is. Once EA focus more on the nuances of football - individuality, first touch, correct foot, tactics - then why would anyone in their right mind buy PES?

Fifa is closer to simulation than people give it credit for.
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Lol, but by ignoring all those fundamentals, how can it be considered a sim? The problem with FIFA is it never will either, simply because the creators don't want it to be. We saw how begrudging they were to include 'Pro Passing', and when they did they made sure it was so toned down it was barely noticable.

While Konami have made horrible design decisions and maybe lack the expertise of EA, at least they've shown a desire to replicate the small nuances of the game that are essential. FIFA never has and never will, doesn't mean it's a 'bad' game or not fun to play, but despite how good the tech ever gets it'll always be 100% arcade focused. Accessibility and marketing is what sells games, not depth and appeasing the hardcore.
 
I didn't say it is a sim, but if they nail those things then it quickly will be. Can PES2012 really be considered a sim? There are so many things just plain wrong about it. Individuality and players using their correct foot alone is not enough to lift it out of arcade territory.
 
Either way, EA are often made out to be the big bad wolf but on this occasion I think they deserve their success. Why? They haven't based success entirely on marketing, if you compare FIFA12 to any other previous FIFA title then it's by far the best version ever made. All the marketing in the world won't sell the game if it's universally panned for being crap. The game's modes, gameplay, presentation, everything has kept up with modern times and it's success is down to word of mouth, like any game at the end of the day.

If people consistently don't like a game it gets a bad reputation. People switched over to FIFA because it's progressing and not getting worse. Likewise people arenot buying PES in the same volumes because of the opposite reason.

To my mind EA kept up with modern tastes, technology and presention and have worked on making the game better and better. It's 100% more realistic than the PS2 FIFA games were and that's all you can ask for. Whereas many are still claiming PES5 on PS2 from seven years ago is the still the most realistic version of PES yet.
 
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For to be a sim it has to mimic real life and Fifa mimics real life better than what PES does, however both games are so far away from playing realistically.
 
i think fifa is closer to ice hockey than football simulation for the following reasons :
1-all payers run , dribble ect.. like each others "non-existent player individuality"
2-all teams play like each others
3-all matches run like each other and very repetitive
4-playes run like skating on ice with the words weight/momentum are non-existent
5-no role for tactics or strategies
6-god-like keepers
7-stupid AI with heavy use of rubber-band AI
8-verty high badly positioned defensive line where most of goals are scored by high through balls and one-on-one situations
9-highly effective skill moves
and more reasons that can never be covered in a single post

EA can't produce a football simulation with the current engine and probably needs another new engine to achieve this , as all the addons they made to the current engine like personality plus , pro passing and recently the tactical defending and impact engine did nothing in the defective areas in fifa to be a simulation%

edit :
for more details u can refer to those 2 articles on official EA forum by our dear friend on evo-web

http://forum.ea.com/uk/posts/list/711510.page

http://forum.ea.com/uk/posts/list/838063.page

and finally lets agree to disagree
back to the editing section now
:BYE:
 
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Jamezinho said:
I didn't say it is a sim, but if they nail those things then it quickly will be. Can PES2012 really be considered a sim? There are so many things just plain wrong about it. Individuality and players using their correct foot alone is not enough to lift it out of arcade territory.
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I don't think PES 2012 is a simulation. I think it has sim aspects, some that go deeper than any previous iteration, but I accept that at it's heart it probably swings more to an arcade nature.

However I still hold it as more of a sim then FIFA. I've owned more EA Sports football games than Konami ones in the last 5 years so I'm not saying that out of any loyalty. They're just very shallow games that are really good on surface, but horribly repetitive after any length of time.

In terms of the actual game engine, not cosmetics/animations/fluidity, where is FIFA more realistic than PES in your opinion? Honest question. Not, where does PES fall down. Rather, what parts of FIFA do you actually consider a good representation of real football.
 
LTFC said:
People switched over to FIFA because it's progressing and not getting worse.
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The last FIFA game I purchased was FIFA 10. I thought that was a step-down from FIFA 09, I didn't purchase FIFA 11 as I thought it was a step down from FIFA 10. I've played a couple games of FIFA 12 and nothing striked me as being remarkably different. EA have perfected a formula that sells the game in masses and are sticking to it. FIFA, like COD, will ship millions, regardless of improvements, come release date.

It won't progress simply because they have no incentive to innovate, unlike when they had to re-invent the series in 08 after falling behind.
 
Personally my problem with FIFA is that the areas in which Jamez rightly listed it as needing improvement (and there are plenty of others too) have seen little to no improvement over the past few years. It really hasn't developed it's interpretation of football as a team sport either - this is particularly noticeable online when teammates stick to their positions regardless of where the threats lie. If two strikers were just 1-2ing up the pitch alone, the fullbacks would compress the play and make it 4v2. In FIFA it's 2v2 with two spectators out wide, and it being left completely up to you to get your defenders to pre-empt, as FIFA's AI doesn't - it's purely reactive.
 
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dannyfc2 said:
In terms of the actual game engine, not cosmetics/animations/fluidity, where is FIFA more realistic than PES in your opinion? Honest question. Not, where does PES fall down. Rather, what parts of FIFA do you actually consider a good representation of real football.
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I think the ball physics are more realistic and consistent, and the game feels nicely paced. Shooting is better, and I mean much better. The new impact engine genuinely adds something to the game (I only ever saw it glitch twice in my time with the game) and feels organic. Stamina seems to play more of a part in the game, certainly better than PES. Tactical defending is a nice idea (but needs work).

I also don't think the animations and fluidity can be treated as a separate entity because they are a big reason why the simple act of knocking the ball about looks and feels so immersive.
 
anyway when playing with small teams the 9 men packed in box disappear, so it could easily be fixed by a patch. but since the game is perfect for many poeple who provide feeback, konami will stick to the ping pong approach to football.
 
hany3 said:
i think pes 2012 deserves opening a thread called "happy with PES 2012" thread" lol
it's a very good game indeed "at least for me" it has so much depth and it's very addictive but u have to pass through a way too long "frustration" stage but again it far from perfect .
and from all the negativity i see over most of the pes forums i've come to conclusion that the great majority of the moaners come to forums to post their negativity about the game while the great majority of those who love and addict the game actually are busy playing the game exept some of them stick to the editing forum to share their pc editing work for pes 2012 and others come to get them . only minority of those who love the game have some time to come here to discuss the game against the army of moaners .
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100% in agreement with this. Thankyou.
 
the army of pes lovers seem to have forgotten to buy the game judging from the oscene charts, especially in the UK.

guess what? most people don't like pes 2012.

Those absurd physics shots and 15 players stuck in box are what? the result of my not getting football or my not being able to see the depth in it?

some people here are just biased fanboys.
 
hany3 said:
i think pes 2012 deserves opening a thread called "happy with PES 2012" thread" lol
it's a very good game indeed "at least for me" it has so much depth and it's very addictive but u have to pass through a way too long "frustration" stage but again it far from perfect .
and from all the negativity i see over most of the pes forums i've come to conclusion that the great majority of the moaners come to forums to post their negativity about the game while the great majority of those who love and addict the game actually are busy playing the game exept some of them stick to the editing forum to share their pc editing work for pes 2012 and others come to get them . only minority of those who love the game have some time to come here to discuss the game against the army of moaners .
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makky said:
100% in agreement with this. Thankyou.
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what he says is right, but his logic is missing another step:
it was like it all the time, with pes6 and all others

conclusion:
more moaners on 12 than other pes
conclusion:
?


;))

just sayin..

i have nothing against correct arguments, but not like this :NONO:
 
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