PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[curdstar]

I can understand the negatives but there are far, far more positives. It's easily my favourite PES and as far the CPU Ai goes, it's the best ever in my opinion. By a long way.

Regards the AI, I would agree that in certain moments it shows itself to be a class apart from what has come before in football games.

I do think the COM AI is relentless in it's efficiency in defence and for all that I actually want that in my footy game, I do think it needs to be complimented by a better stamina model and for player/team individuality to be more prevalent in AI routines so as to allow that little bit more in terms of variance in patterns of play and overall ebb and flow. Right now in PES2012 I think the AI coding overrides a lot of that individuality and character.

As a pure videogame-y (note: not arcade) challenge goes, the AI on Top Player and Super Star delivers for me and I hope PES2013 refines things where needed so as a touch more of that realism born of player/team individuality is allowed to shine. I agree generally with what PSM3/CVG say when they speak of the core gameplay being pretty much in place and that the tech boost for PES2013 will fully compliment a further improved core gameplay experience to that found in PES2012.

They really do need to streamline the passing assistance options for PES2013 and beyond though. Default should be PES2011-like and the alternative - the only alternative - should be fully manual. Along with this I would loosen up shooting so as it feeds back to the user more control in basic placement, though I wouldn't want accuracy tampered with too much. It will be interesting to see what the J-League DLC for the Japanese version offers in terms of gameplay enhancements, if any do materialise. Hopefully it proves to be a ''final evolution''-esque add on and is something the users of the rest of the world will have made available to them in some shape or form. I reckon that will come next year for users across the globe though to be honest.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I must admit, I would like to see a little more error from the CPU in defensive situations. At times, they feel too perfect. They can seem super-composed at every level, which certainly detracts a little from the realism for me personally. Also, the CPU has a habit of being able to obtain the ball even when you put a body in front of it.

Minor niggles really, but I would like to see them addressed.

 

[shilamounainai]

we can change the ball in master league from edit mode! i didnt know that lol i have ajax i went into edit mode changed the ball for eredivisie and voila it changes in the master league too

 

[yair25]

funny how one guy in the comments writes that yairs gameplay patch is placebo

he is funny

 

[dannyfc2]

I must admit, I would like to see a little more error from the CPU in defensive situations. At times, they feel too perfect. They can seem super-composed at every level, which certainly detracts a little from the realism for me personally. Also, the CPU has a habit of being able to obtain the ball even when you put a body in front of it.

Minor niggles really, but I would like to see them addressed.

I actually think it's been really improved in that regard. If you chase down a defender, quite often they'll clog it out for a throw or make a rash pass across the face of the goal.

 

[dannyfc2]

It will be interesting to see what the J-League DLC for the Japanese version offers in terms of gameplay enhancements, if any do materialise. Hopefully it proves to be a ''final evolution''-esque add on and is something the users of the rest of the world will have made available to them in some shape or form. I reckon that will come next year for users across the globe though to be honest.

Is this available to us Europeans 'n all then? Any info. on that?

Traditionally the Japanese editions always featured enhanced gameplay, especially WE6:FE which was a massive step up from WE6.

 

[Lons]

Miro, every year we have same story !! Big promises and nothing special after all That NEW engine will be something with graphic i guess . Some new shadows filters or.. something like that. PES 2013 will be just.. PES 2012 but with updates for bad or good.

Don't agree because first time for long, long time we hear " New Engine" New engine can change a lot...... Agree Pes 2013 without new engine will be the same old story. Do you seriously think KONAMI created new engine with new shadows and filters? Nooooo....It will be something more like mechanics engine. You will see

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

Good step if so, like the idea to make a new engine before the new consoles come out, good for pc players.
They can port it to NG consoles then, not the other way round, should result in a better game, more possibilities that way building upon actual PC Hardware, but thats a dream that unlikely comes true..

 

[Chimps-with-quiffs]

Just played argentina v brazil 4 times in a row. All the games superb with on goal between each team and the highest scoring game 2-1 to them. Each game went bad almost equal possession. This game can be the best football simulation and enjoyable to date.

The infuriating thing is if I know go and try playing the master league, the difference in game mode and stadiums will mean the game play I have just enjoyed will only come along once every few games if all. I would pay good money for an option to pick stadiums and time for each master league game or better still the same experience in each stadium

To those on about receiving threw balls, try holding down r1 when running and hitting r2 briefly at the right time to control the ball in your stride

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

when u run u hold r1 yes, and r2 is pes players best friend for years now anyways, basically try to use it as much as possible lol

i have r1 mapped to l1 and vice versa, so its easy for me :p
kinda more intuitive for me left stick to run and fast run(l1) on the left side too

 

[fanolato]

I can understand the negatives but there are far, far more positives. It's easily my favourite PES and as far as the CPU Ai goes, it's the best ever in my opinion. By a long way.

I disagree, specially with the context of where PES 2009 through 2011 were heading. Last year the AI was really easy, so then Konami kept a very similar AI, except it can dribble much too well and plays perfect defense. But that is better AI just because it wins more often now. The AI never plays possession football, never. It's always direct counter attack after direct counter attack. The game is too repetitive. The individualism is watered down compared to last year, the uniqueness in players is too hidden. ML is unplayable. To be honest, there are more negatives than there are positives. Specially considering where the series was supposed to go after last year was a really good game.

The problem with this site is that it's been bogged down by all the naysayers who come here just to bitch and whine. It's ruined this place, it really has. And those constant negative comments have spoilt it for those who enjoy the game.

Well this is a pro evo site, and when the game is not up to par in the eyes of many, specially people who have been playing this for a long time, then there will be negativity. It's not the fault of the users of this site that Konami has not delivered. While surely there are annoying people who don't bring anything to the conversation, there is a reason. How come that wasn't true in the PS2 days? hmm because Konami were delivering!

Just a page or two back, I asked about why I never get beaten in possession, and no one answered. So everything has to be positive or just a niggle, because otherwise they don't know what real football is or they are not good at the game or they belittled. If you have a problem with this site, while many people don't, maybe it's time to look in the mirror.

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

+1

too much box-to-box action from cpu, too much running with ball, too much play on the wing..

ps2 engine better ai, not so repetetive and more creative, and less cheaty


edit
first :p

 

[Chimps-with-quiffs]

After earlier really enjoying the game I went back to it and tried to start a master league. Probably the around the 10th I have tried. Two and a half games in and as I predicted, it infuriating to the point I turned it off.

Why make the game play different in different modes? It's shit, really shit. In master league players are a different speed, they are somehow faster, yet unresponsive. They bump into each other, they takes much longer to turn and are clunky and look unnatural. Shots are hit looking like the wrong foot is used and the keeper then fumbles the ball out.

There is a world of difference and i might upload two full games if I can be arsed to prove it. The most annoying thing is for every year for a very long time I have loved the master league. It is why I edit the game. I am normally still playing it when the next one comes out.

 

[fanolato]

+1

too much box-to-box action from cpu, too much running with ball, too much play on the wing..

ps2 engine better ai, not so repetetive and more creative, and less cheaty


edit
first :p

I wasn't saying go back to the PS2 engine. I was saying just illustrating why we get a lot of "negativity" now compared to the Golden days. It's not because people have become assholes or incoherent (well some might have) but because Konami was delivering a great product for its time. Today it's not doing the same.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I wasn't saying go back to the PS2 engine. I was saying just illustrating why we get a lot of "negativity" now compared to the Golden days. It's not because people have become assholes or incoherent (well some might have) but because Konami was delivering a great product for its time. Today it's not doing the same.

Yeah it's been said many times and no doubt its the truth but because some people think this PES is flawless or the best PES to date they refuse to see others points that dont think it's as good as the PS2 games meaning we are all going round in roundabouts until Konami make a great game again that has universal acclaim like the golden days.

 

[AntrAcsA]

Don't agree because first time for long, long time we hear " New Engine" New engine can change a lot...... Agree Pes 2013 without new engine will be the same old story. Do you seriously think KONAMI created new engine with new shadows and filters? Nooooo....It will be something more like mechanics engine. You will see

I hope you are right but .. its deja vu !! We talk this every year since 2009. Every year we talk about " New engine " and what we want, that's why I can not believe it so easily
The word "engine" is very controversial, because the game is a combination of engines. You can add one to exclude another, but I do not believe to have some striking rinsed, revolution. We wait too long for something that never happens Maybe should wait for PS4 for ... really new engine

 

[Lons]

I hope you are right but .. its deja vu !! We talk this every year since 2009. Every year we talk about " New engine " and what we want, that's why I can not believe it so easily
The word "engine" is very controversial, because the game is a combination of engines. You can add one to exclude another, but I but I do not believe to have some striking rinsed, revolution. We wait too long for something that never happens Maybe should wait for PS4 for some.. really new engine

Agree we wait( Pes fans) for new engine since 2009 but diference betweet 2009 and 2012 is "we" and " KONAMI". Do you know what i mean? In 2008 - 2011 KONAMI never said about new engine. We only talk about it. This year is different. Everybody talk about engine not only we on Evo Web but PSM, CVG etc.

 

[AntrAcsA]

Agree we wait( Pes fans) for new engine since 2009 but diference betweet 2009 and 2012 is "we" and " KONAMI". Do you know what i mean? In 2008 - 2011 KONAMI never said about new engine. We only talk about it. This year is different. Everybody talk about engine not only we on Evo Web but PSM, CVG etc.

No mate its not so diffirent . Konami is never say that this year will have new engine , again its come from " WE " Adam say someting but it is uncertain what.. he is always do that !! BLUE SKY and other cr*ps.And again, engine can mean many things Like every year will see after one or two months.

 

[lancers]

Isn't it kinda late for Konami to use a new engine for this series so late in this current gen life cycle? Or can they just port the game over from PC and nullify that reason entirely? I would like to see Konami get back on track.

 

[Lons]

No mate its not so diffirent . Konami is never say that this year will have new engine , again its come from " WE " Adam say someting but it is uncertain what.. he is always do that !! BLUE SKY and other cr*ps.And again, engine can mean many things Like every year will see after one or two months.

I remind you KONAMI created from scratch two multiplatform new engines.

1. FOX ENGINE

2. METAL GEAR RISING ENGINE



Do you seriously think second the most important game created from KONAMI like PES( multiplatform game) will use old crap PS2 engine when you see 2 superb new engines above? No way mateNo this time I have no doubt KONAMI will use one of them in Pes 2013. I quess it will be FOX ENGINE.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Yeah but the fact that Konami might well be implementing a new engine now, so late in the cycle of the PS3/360, means that for the investment to be worthwhile, this same engine will have to carry on into the next gen of consoles and might very well become old and clunky very quickly in comparison to what other companies will be able to do with the new hardware.

I think Konami should have kept releasing games for current consoles on the same engine, as incremental improvements/updates, then work on a next gen version as soon as the hardware development kits are made available and hit everyone with an all new, rebranded PES, perhaps under a new name, when the PS4 and 720 come out and wow everyone with an amazing come back and awesome technology. Looks like that won't happen. Using PS3 tech on PS4 doesn't really bode well.

It all feels like Konami are missing the boat at every turn, in terms of using game technology at any rate.

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

Isn't it kinda late for Konami to use a new engine for this series so late in this current gen life cycle? Or can they just port the game over from PC and nullify that reason entirely? I would like to see Konami get back on track.

Yeah but the fact that Konami might well be implementing a new engine now, so late in the cycle of the PS3/360, means that for the investment to be worthwhile, this same engine will have to carry on into the next gen of consoles and might very well become old and clunky very quickly in comparison to what other companies will be able to do with the new hardware.




I think Konami should have just cut their losses, engine wise, until the next consoles like PS4/xbox720 are out then hit the public with something amazing. *They should have kept releasing games for current consoles on the same engine, as incremental improvements/updates, then work on a next gen version as soon as the hardware development kits are made available.




It all feels like Konami are missing the boat at every turn, in terms of using game technology at any rate.

they need experience with new engine before next consoles come out, or we get pes08 again

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Yeah but the fact that Konami might well be implementing a new engine now, so late in the cycle of the PS3/360, means that for the investment to be worthwhile, this same engine will have to carry on into the next gen of consoles and might very well become old and clunky very quickly in comparison to what other companies will be able to do with the new hardware.

I think Konami should have kept releasing games for current consoles on the same engine, as incremental improvements/updates, then work on a next gen version as soon as the hardware development kits are made available and hit everyone with an all new, rebranded PES, perhaps under a new name, when the PS4 and 720 come out and wow everyone with an amazing come back and awesome technology. Looks like that won't happen. Using PS3 tech on PS4 doesn't really bode well.

It all feels like Konami are missing the boat at every turn, in terms of using game technology at any rate.

I guess it depends how good the next game turns out, if it's the best game weve ever played then it will be worthwhile as it should be easy enough to port to Xbox 3 and PS4, however if it's still not upto scratch and then they are using it for nxt-gen consoles then it will spell big trouble for Konami.

For me the future of PES rests on PES 2013.

 

[romagnoli]

Yeah but the fact that Konami might well be implementing a new engine now, so late in the cycle of the PS3/360, means that for the investment to be worthwhile, this same engine will have to carry on into the next gen of consoles and might very well become old and clunky very quickly in comparison to what other companies will be able to do with the new hardware.

I think Konami should have kept releasing games for current consoles on the same engine, as incremental improvements/updates, then work on a next gen version as soon as the hardware development kits are made available and hit everyone with an all new, rebranded PES, perhaps under a new name, when the PS4 and 720 come out and wow everyone with an amazing come back and awesome technology. Looks like that won't happen. Using PS3 tech on PS4 doesn't really bode well.

It all feels like Konami are missing the boat at every turn, in terms of using game technology at any rate.

Disagree. This is based on pretty old and redundant thinking - it's nothing even remotely like writing an engine for a PS2 game and upgrading it for PS3.

 

[fanolato]

Disagree. This is based on pretty old and redundant thinking - it's nothing even remotely like writing an engine for a PS2 game and upgrading it for PS3.

Could you elaborate?

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Could you elaborate?

All games these days are coded on PC, The good PES engine was wrote specifically for the PS2 which then found it's way onto PC & then later the Xbox. Coding games for one console and then porting to PC and a different console are long gone.

 

[romagnoli]

The sense is that the games industry is a lot more forward thinking and all-encompassing with the tech it invests in nowadays, particularly compared to seven or eight years ago. Some of the main developments from this gen are:-


- the cost of developing game engines is significantly greater, meaning a lot more sharing of tech across several games within a development house (laterally as well as through an individual series);

- proportionally far more licensing of tech from third parties by those devs who cannot afford to create their own equivalents / would prefer to spend the time and resource elsewhere - these third parties spend their money on scalability and future proofing so their clients don't have to;

- two consoles that are selling more or less equally compared to last gen means that engines are far less specific to the hardware and are designed to scale up or down (see Crytek's demonstration of combined with how long they are lasting, for a start);

- PC games are much more console-oriented and 'broad' than they used to be, which is a clear sign that all three platforms are being treated as part of a singular whole.


Plus, more specifically to PES, Japanese devs took a major shoeing in the throat from the European studios when it came to getting the most out of their tech, and have been looking at their western counterparts to see where they've been going wrong. They'd see points 1 and 2 above.


You also look at how the hardware itself is advancing and it seems very likely (and widely believed in the industry from what I hear) that there won't be drastic shifts in architecture. It's as important to Sony and MS as it is to game studios that development costs are kept from skyrocketing. The PS4 is expected to be an upgraded PS3, simply using more Cell processors together (as they were designed to do from the start) and beefing up the RAM rather than chucking in something alien to current programmers; the 360 is likely to be followed up by something that is similarly user friendly to code for, given that it gave MS a sizeable advantage in the early phase of this gen.


The most noticeable differences between this gen and next are very likely to come less from the hardware itself, and more from multitasking/multimedia/social networking advances. Less about the raw horsepower and more about what you can do with it. After all, my brief list of developments above didn't touch on the Wii, or the Kinect, or the iPhone, or PSN/XBLA, or the console apps such as iPlayer/Lovefilm/Netflix.

 

[gomito#10]

The sense is that the games industry is a lot more forward thinking and all-encompassing with the tech it invests in nowadays, particularly compared to seven or eight years ago. Some of the main developments from this gen are:-


- the cost of developing game engines is significantly greater, meaning a lot more sharing of tech across several games within a development house (laterally as well as through an individual series);

- proportionally far more licensing of tech from third parties by those devs who cannot afford to create their own equivalents / would prefer to spend the time and resource elsewhere - these third parties spend their money on scalability and future proofing so their clients don't have to;

- two consoles that are selling more or less equally compared to last gen means that engines are far less specific to the hardware and are designed to scale up or down (see Crytek's demonstration of combined with how long they are lasting, for a start);

- PC games are much more console-oriented and 'broad' than they used to be, which is a clear sign that all three platforms are being treated as part of a singular whole.


Plus, more specifically to PES, Japanese devs took a major shoeing in the throat from the European studios when it came to getting the most out of their tech, and have been looking at their western counterparts to see where they've been going wrong. They'd see points 1 and 2 above.


You also look at how the hardware itself is advancing and it seems very likely (and widely believed in the industry from what I hear) that there won't be drastic shifts in architecture. It's as important to Sony and MS as it is to game studios that development costs are kept from skyrocketing. The PS4 is expected to be an upgraded PS3, simply using more Cell processors together (as they were designed to do from the start) and beefing up the RAM rather than chucking in something alien to current programmers; the 360 is likely to be followed up by something that is similarly user friendly to code for, given that it gave MS a sizeable advantage in the early phase of this gen.


The most noticeable differences between this gen and next are very likely to come less from the hardware itself, and more from multitasking/multimedia/social networking advances. Less about the raw horsepower and more about what you can do with it. After all, my brief list of developments above didn't touch on the Wii, or the Kinect, or of the iPhone, or of PSN/XBLA, or iPlayer/Lovefilm/Netflix.

dont you see a shift towards more of a cloud like approach to gaming, where in 5 to ten years the console wont even matter.... it will be your gaming provider if you will... just like netflix is now, i see bandwith as the only issue here. Developing cloud based gaming will only be cheaper in the long run, at least for MS and Sony, not so much for devs....

 

[romagnoli]

Not next gen, no. In the longer term, though, definitely. You might even see, not downloadable, but streamable, content that is cloud based next gen. Patches may end up server-side too, so they don't have to go through Sony/MS, and you will probably be able to play your own music streamed from your PC/Mac/Spotify account. So I expect moves towards cloud gaming, but not a wholesale change for another 10 years or so unless major progress is made in less technologically advanced markets.

Edit: I do expect some moves towards cloud gaming from the big two actually. But I don't expect it to be their main thrust. It'll be something they do mainly as prep for the next next gen.

One of the things I expect to see more of is an equivalent of Blu-ray menus, or the PC BF3 browser-based hub. Multitasking stuff that means you can break off from what you're doing at any time and access something else. Or being able to accept a game invite, instantly pausing your single player game as if pausing live TV, keeping it in cold storage for you to come back and carry on on e you're done with your online match.

 

[fanolato]

Thanks for the elaboration!

Regarding PES, so if there isn't that big of a change in the programming infrastructure, then making a new engine really is the right way to go for Konami. Would a new engine mean a drawback in the "bells and whistles"? (game modes, teams, stadiums etc...)