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PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

fanolato said:
Thanks for the elaboration!

Regarding PES, so if there isn't that big of a change in the programming infrastructure, then making a new engine really is the right way to go for Konami. Would a new engine mean a drawback in the "bells and whistles"? (game modes, teams, stadiums etc...)
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There is no bells and whistles as it is, PES suffers badly from a lack of teams, Stadiums, Chants etc Which could be down to the archaic engine so a brand new upto date engine will hopefully see these things increase.
 
fanolato said:
Thanks for the elaboration!

Regarding PES, so if there isn't that big of a change in the programming infrastructure, then making a new engine really is the right way to go for Konami.
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Provided nothing crazy happens. I can't see Sony wanting to get butt-hurt again with astronomical unit costs and hardware that nobody knows how to use, and MS's strength will always be software rather than hardware.

There's also the question of whether the new engine is being designed for PS3/360 and will be upscaled for next gen, or if it was designed for next gen and is being downscaled for current gen...

Would a new engine mean a drawback in the "bells and whistles"? (game modes, teams, stadiums etc...)
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Your guess is as good as mine really...

It depends how much work they would have been doing on the new engine in the background. I'd expect most of the modes to be in place, though there might be some streamlining for the first year. I'd expect to see Football Life, MLO, the training challenges, the community hubs, hopefully the editor in a full form.

I'd like to think stadia and teams are ok? The artwork is most likely done in such a way that they just need to work out how to port into the new engine, rather than all of their stadia work having to be restarted from scratch. Pretty much all games now create art at levels way beyond what the game can put out, so that they can use the shadow maps to give the illusion that the graphics are a lot more detailed than they are. For example Any game with a suit of armour nowadays will make light reflect off the curves very convincingly, as if the suit is curved, when actually it's still made of lots of straight lined polygons as in PS2 days. You can only tell when you look at the outline, not at the centre of the shape in question.

Besides which - lighting will probably do more for PES's stadia than anything else.


Whether online will be fine is anyone's guess. Hopefully they'd have designed a new engine with online in mind?
 
gomito#10 said:
dont you see a shift towards more of a cloud like approach to gaming, where in 5 to ten years the console wont even matter.... it will be your gaming provider if you will... just like netflix is now, i see bandwith as the only issue here. Developing cloud based gaming will only be cheaper in the long run, at least for MS and Sony, not so much for devs....
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I think we are still a generation or two away from fully cloud-based gaming. Many parts of the world aren't ready for it. The UK for instance, suffers from painfully slow broadband in many rural areas. Same goes for the USA and Australia, and a whole host of countries/areas. Optical drives will be here for another generation at least, and digital distribution will need to fully take off before cloud gaming can become mainstream.

As for PES2013 and the rumoured new engine - I don't see how this can be viewed as a bad move at all. If Konami have new engines ready to be used then why hold back? PES is almost in the last chance saloon so if it can win back some plaudits and respect before the next generation of consoles hit then it will put the series in good stead. There is no reason why the new engine would be instantly out of date on the PS4.
 
dannyfc2 said:
Is this available to us Europeans 'n all then? Any info. on that?

Traditionally the Japanese editions always featured enhanced gameplay, especially WE6:FE which was a massive step up from WE6.
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Sorry for the late reply here. No news on it coming to Europe/RotW as yet. Don't see it but hopefully if, and it is still very much an ''if'', the J-League stuff adds some gameplay improvements we get them via a patch. Think it is PS3 exclusive as well over in Japan.

LTFC said:
Yeah but the fact that Konami might well be implementing a new engine now, so late in the cycle of the PS3/360, means that for the investment to be worthwhile, this same engine will have to carry on into the next gen of consoles and might very well become old and clunky very quickly in comparison to what other companies will be able to do with the new hardware.

I think Konami should have kept releasing games for current consoles on the same engine, as incremental improvements/updates, then work on a next gen version as soon as the hardware development kits are made available and hit everyone with an all new, rebranded PES, perhaps under a new name, when the PS4 and 720 come out and wow everyone with an amazing come back and awesome technology. Looks like that won't happen. Using PS3 tech on PS4 doesn't really bode well.

It all feels like Konami are missing the boat at every turn, in terms of using game technology at any rate.
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Frostbite 2, Cryengine, id tech 4 and yep, even the closer to home for Konami FOX Engine are examples of the industry looking to scalable technology solutions. I am willing to bet here and now that PES' new tech will be built as a scalable solution.
 
It makes sense that they are working on putting 2013 on a new engine when you accept that 2011 and 2012 look exactly the same. And that ain't a good thing. Please improve the presentation and commentary.
 
Wasn't there a press conference a while back where in lead up to PES 2012, Seabass said 2013 was where we'd see some real improvement?

I think 2012 might have just been a filler with some changes here and there. Hopefully, anyway...

Having filled most of the last few weeks playing Assassin's Creed 1 and 2, it's amazing how far apart some games are in tech.
 
romagnoli said:
Provided nothing crazy happens. I can't see Sony wanting to get butt-hurt again with astronomical unit costs and hardware that nobody knows how to use, and MS's strength will always be software rather than hardware.

There's also the question of whether the new engine is being designed for PS3/360 and will be upscaled for next gen, or if it was designed for next gen and is being downscaled for current gen...



Your guess is as good as mine really...

It depends how much work they would have been doing on the new engine in the background. I'd expect most of the modes to be in place, though there might be some streamlining for the first year. I'd expect to see Football Life, MLO, the training challenges, the community hubs, hopefully the editor in a full form.

I'd like to think stadia and teams are ok? The artwork is most likely done in such a way that they just need to work out how to port into the new engine, rather than all of their stadia work having to be restarted from scratch. Pretty much all games now create art at levels way beyond what the game can put out, so that they can use the shadow maps to give the illusion that the graphics are a lot more detailed than they are. For example Any game with a suit of armour nowadays will make light reflect off the curves very convincingly, as if the suit is curved, when actually it's still made of lots of straight lined polygons as in PS2 days. You can only tell when you look at the outline, not at the centre of the shape in question.

Besides which - lighting will probably do more for PES's stadia than anything else.


Whether online will be fine is anyone's guess. Hopefully they'd have designed a new engine with online in mind?
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I think they should just increase the core processing power of the HDVICT type Flux Capacitators and be done with it .......... :CONFUSE:
 
Jamezinho said:
I think we are still a generation or two away from fully cloud-based gaming. Many parts of the world aren't ready for it. The UK for instance, suffers from painfully slow broadband in many rural areas. Same goes for the USA and Australia, and a whole host of countries/areas. Optical drives will be here for another generation at least, and digital distribution will need to fully take off before cloud gaming can become mainstream.

As for PES2013 and the rumoured new engine - I don't see how this can be viewed as a bad move at all. If Konami have new engines ready to be used then why hold back? PES is almost in the last chance saloon so if it can win back some plaudits and respect before the next generation of consoles hit then it will put the series in good stead. There is no reason why the new engine would be instantly out of date on the PS4.
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100% agreed.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
I think they should just increase the core processing power of the HDVICT type Flux Capacitators and be done with it .......... :CONFUSE:
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Me too. While they are at it Skynet, at the moment are leading the way in technological development. They could ask them for a few pointers. Who knows, the CPU AI might actually become 'self aware' within the next 5 - 10 years.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Wasn't there a press conference a while back where in lead up to PES 2012, Seabass said 2013 was where we'd see some real improvement?

I think 2012 might have just been a filler with some changes here and there. Hopefully, anyway...
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Yes your totally right however PES 2012 was supposed to be quite a step up from 2011 and was supposed to be "a game for the fans"
 
romagnoli said:
Disagree. This is based on pretty old and redundant thinking - it's nothing even remotely like writing an engine for a PS2 game and upgrading it for PS3.
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I never said it would be the same as with the PS2/PS3 versions. I understand that was a unique situation where the initial engine was created on old PS2 architecture and ported over (so as to not be a 'transferable' engine), and that games are programmed these days on PC but if they're developing a new engine before anyone has any idea what the new consoles can do, then I think they'll be potentially missing out. I'm sure it'll be different to the PS2 days where the engine was just ported over, and I'm sure the engine will be able to transfer over to newer technology, but I still think they'd do well to wait and see what they can do. The only thing I can think is if maybe they're going down the route that DICE did with Battlefield 3 and primarily now developing it for PC and pushing the boat out on that platform, with the hope that consoles can keep up. I actually hope that's now the case.
 
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LTFC said:
I never said it would be the same as with the PS2/PS3 versions. I understand that was a unique situation where the initial engine was created on old PS2 architecture and ported over (so as to not be a 'transferable' engine), and that games are programmed these days on PC but if they're developing a new engine before anyone has any idea what the new consoles can do, then I think they'll be potentially missing out. I'm sure it'll be different to the PS2 days where the engine was just ported over, and I'm sure the engine will be able to transfer over to newer technology, but I still think they'd do well to wait and see what they can do. The only thing I can think is if maybe they're going down the route that DICE did with Battlefield 3 and primarily now developing it for PC and pushing the boat out on that platform, with the hope that consoles can keep up. I actually hope that's now the case.
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I think Rom got it spot on earlier. The industry most likely knows what's coming with the next generation of consoles from Sony and Microsoft and it won't be anything revolutionary. The architecture of the new consoles will remain the same, just with added processing power and memory. With the tough economic climate - of which games developers will feel the pinch like any other industry - the last thing MS and Sony will do (if they are smart) is drop unfamiliar hardware on the industry. They will want developers to make a smooth transition to new hardware, which is why the 360 was such a success.

Consoles these days are just PC's under the hood. The developers will take an educated guess that the next gen consoles will be based on a decent spec gaming PC from 2011 or 2012 and go with that. Like Rom said, modern engines will be scalable, so they can be adjusted to suit whatever arrives from Sony and MS in the coming years.
 
I'm sure new consoles would try to keep some level of backwards compatability also don't you think? Maybe the new consoles will allow for games in native 1080p, which is what a lot of people have as TV's now but I'd like to think I could still play some current games on a new console...until there are new iterations of those games with ramped up specs.
 
I think it's best not to judge PES 2013 and not to fall into the yearly hype until about three months after release of PES 2013.

The faults of the game always revealed themselves within the first three months of playing the retail version.

1-3 months with the retail version are imho needed to make a real judgment, everything before that is merely "preview", "first impression" and lots of hype.
 
Miro said:
They have to do something with online modes, we need at least clubs as Fifa.
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Total agree ! Even more, we need Co-op online League or ML , 4 vs CPU or more. I remember how fun was, every sunday we was playing co-op ML on PES 6 with my friends. I want to do that and online !!
 
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:YAWN: Adam from WENB compares new PES 2013 engine with BF3 engine ... maybe that mean like lons_pl say, is it will be FOX engine ?
FOX is .. cool. Look very good .
fox-engine-showcases-impressive-avatar-creation.jpg

6057920419_dc219ded21.jpg

fox-engine-transparent.jpg

764px-Facialmessage.jpg

But , will see.. will see !
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Really? If true and not more PR bull then good stuff.
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Well.. yeah ! I do not know, but if he doing this to strengthen interesting to his site, will be.. bad !
Adam said:
Many things really. From a unique online experience, to it's severe marketing campaign focused completely on incredible visuals and impressive realistic animations and tech.
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If it is a new engine, it's gonna need 2 years to get a fully completed, polished game, which means 2014 for it to be fully realised. Unfortunately, as it is now, konami has set a trend of releasing PES with obvious glitches, and niggles and an overall 'undercooked' package.

I hope they set this straight for 2013, but working with a new engine, it will be very hard for them to get it right by October.
 
Musy said:
If it is a new engine, it's gonna need 2 years to get a fully completed, polished game, which means 2014 for it to be fully realised. Unfortunately, as it is now, konami has set a trend of releasing PES with obvious glitches, and niggles and an overall 'undercooked' package.

I hope they set this straight for 2013, but working with a new engine, it will be very hard for them to get it right by October.
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Know what? Since 12 is virtually a replica of 11 save a game play tweak here and there it wouldn't be surprising if they have already been working with the new engine for a year already. We can only hope.
 
lancers said:
Know what? Since 12 is virtually a replica of 11 save a game play tweak here and there it wouldn't be surprising if they have already been working with the new engine for a year already. We can only hope.
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That's what I believe too. It would explain why PES2012 is so completely lacklustre, and why so many things have failed to develop these past couple of years. PES2012 features the same old rigid animations, inconsistent and/or odd ball physics and dated collision detection. The graphics have deteriorated and the animations are less varied.

Could it be that Konami have been saving their resources for a behind the scenes revamp? It's been hinted that this is the case and I hope for Konami's sake it's true.
 
Jamezinho said:
That's what I believe too. It would explain why PES2012 is so completely lacklustre, and why so many things have failed to develop these past couple of years. PES2012 features the same old rigid animations, inconsistent and/or odd ball physics and dated collision detection. The graphics have deteriorated and the animations are less varied.

Could it be that Konami have been saving their resources for a behind the scenes revamp? It's been hinted that this is the case and I hope for Konami's sake it's true.
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Well I'm really enjoying this game. I'm playing as West Bromwich Albion in a completely unassisted passing league. The games are so intense just like the old days. This game totally outclasses PES 2011 in so many ways. I'm not saying it's perfect. Far from it, but like i've said before many times they are completely heading in the right direction with this. So if 2013 is even better then that's a good thing. You cannot even remotely compare this iteration to it's predecessor. It is completely different on so many levels. At this moment in time the negativity on this thread is contributing to damaging the franchise not enhancing it. It's a game ffs enjoy it for all it's little flaws because looking forward to 2013 already is surely going to end up with disappointment.
 
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