PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

next year master league will be reworked, i'm sure of it
in fact it has been the same since pes 2010, they just tweaked some things here and there
 
Ameppe said:
next year master league will be reworked, i'm sure of it
in fact it has been the same since pes 2010, they just tweaked some things here and there
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Exactly.

I didnt play ML last year, PES 2011 was all about MLO and PEEL. It feels the same as PES 10, with the only difference being these silly player remarks and group training. Also the Coach is different, given you the low-down on your opponents. Apart from that, it's the same as I remember.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Jeez, hell yeah, alot of stuff. Last night's session though, was by far, the worst I have ever seen PES in a long time, and in so many areas. Not good.

I love the new ML, loved it since it upgraded in PES 10. So much better and more realistic than the bullshit points system from way back when. In my opinion.
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Yeah the points system this day n age doesnt make any sense, ML just doesnt cut it for me anymore though as there is not enough teams/leagues in the game. Until they stop refusing to give us more edit spaces i cant see it ever being any good anymore :(
 
Agreed, but as long as we have two division's, then I'm happy. More would certainly be a nice addition, but it's a long way from the old system where even two division's were not an option.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Edit - What I will say, and I'm not sure if this is pure coincidence or not, but structuring my days correctly has certainly had a more beneficial effect on my results. Working on Technique, then Condition, then Strategy has certainly reaped rewards. Now that I do like.
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Will deffo give this a try mate, cheers!!!
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Yeah the points system this day n age doesnt make any sense, ML just doesnt cut it for me anymore though as there is not enough teams/leagues in the game. Until they stop refusing to give us more edit spaces i cant see it ever being any good anymore :(
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Pretty much. FIFA's MM has a solid base right now and works well. Not to mention Football Manager.

My dream game would be PES gameplay + Football manager deep ML. One can dream.
 
fanolato said:
Pretty much. FIFA's MM has a solid base right now and works well. Not to mention Football Manager.

My dream game would be PES gameplay + Football manager deep ML. One can dream.
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While that sounds like it would be a good game, it wouldn't be for me.
I'd prefer to just cut to the chase and get on with playing football.
Leave the business side of it to the board and the day to day running of the club to the people who do that side of things.
I just want purist football. I don't think this game will ever ditch it's roots in that respect.
If you don't like the game don't play it. It's an easy decision to make.
 
Maybe what they could do is have that list come up with the captions saying Training, Players want to talk etc but not show the preceding cut scene every time. It doesn't take very long, even though it would be good if you had the choice of seeing it by going to that menu option.

I wonder about some people's general health though lol. People getting into that much rage that they smash controllers. Seriously lol. Yeah it can be frustrating, but have you really got that much anger in you? Might have been on the other thread sorry but just putting it out there. Have any of you smashed your TV when the ref has made a bad call while watching a real football match??

Anyways - I was playing a league game last night as Everton and saw one of those lovely little football touches which is like a diamond in the sometimes rough world of PES. I had the ball with Fellaini on halfway and spotted a player on my radar near their 18 yard box so I hit a long ball to him. Anichebe jumps for the ball and beats his man in the air but instead of heading it on, he chests it down into the path of Saha who hits a shot from the edge of the 18 yard box.

Looking at the replay, you can tell the animation doesn't look spot on from some of the angles, but you have to admire the football brains behind the touch. Which is why if they can spend this year getting animations and other elements polished (e.g. CPU "cheating"), there would be little for people to nitpick on and a lot for people to sing praise about...and more importantly, to enjoy.

The more I play, the more good things I see from keepers. They are making some great saves but the animations do need to look more convincing on some of them. Especially for the shots they can't reach. Haven't heard any complaints on them in a while...are people noticing the improvements or it's just me?
 
makky said:
While that sounds like it would be a good game, it wouldn't be for me.
I'd prefer to just cut to the chase and get on with playing football.
Leave the business side of it to the board and the day to day running of the club to the people who do that side of things.
I just want purist football. I don't think this game will ever ditch it's roots in that respect.
If you don't like the game don't play it. It's an easy decision to make.
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By depth I mean, the world around football manager and how transfers and how things are very similarly if not identically structured to that of the real world. PES doesn't do that in ML, they could easily just give us more leagues for a lot of that depth. They should have a loyalty stat or something, I have seen Puyol with Madrid countless times. They should have a better youth system. Internationals should either be competitive or friendlies. So that if it's a friendly you can pull your player out of it. Player roles, so if you sign a player as a backup or rotation player, he won't complain when you are barely playing him. It's really not that hard.

I think Konami are undecided whether they want full realism in their ML or some of that old school fantasy ML. I really don't mind whichever side they take, but make a decision and run with it. FIFA are running with their idea, while it has bugs, its very playable. Too bad the gameplay is not what it should be. To me local multiplayer and Manager modes are the two most important reasons to buy a football games, and neither game cuts it sadly. Telling me not to play it, sounds like a fanboy answer to a justified complain. If you don't like much of the business side, I am sure they could just do what they did this year with adding the "board control" or whatever that was and actually make it mean something. So if you untick the "board control" you don't worry about business. So say you want a forward, you tell the board and they deal with it and bring in what they can. You tell the board whose expiring contracts you'd like to renew. They'll deal with the negotiations. For some of us the business is fun, and would love to have it so we tick on "board control" or whatever you want to call it. Surely Konami should add that.

PS

Other things they should add if Konami decides to go the realistic route:
  • There are no national supercup.
  • There are no games during the winter transfer window.
  • In cups like the English one where it's only one leg win or go home, the games are played in a random stadium instead of the home teams stadium. It just takes away from the immersion.
  • More divisions!!!(I'd love to take Sant Andreu from the Spanish 3rd tier to Primera and maybe some CL action)
  • A more intelligent version of training, I don't know how, but come up with something.
  • Loan deals IRL to be represented in the start of the game. It just takes away from the experience when Sergio Canales stays in Valencia w/o any negotiations.
  • Player contracts to mirror those of real life. Hector Moreno's contract with Espanyol ends in the very first season, despite him just arriving there in real life.
  • Being able to renew contracts at any point. Not just 6 months before it expires during the transfer period.
  • Make the negotiations more direct. That whole sending the scout to negotiate first is dull. Let us send what we feel is an acceptable offer. I really like what FIFA have done in regards of transfer negotiations. Konami should take note.
While somethings are bells and whistles, they add to the experience, and PES to me is ML and Local multiplayer. If either of those don't fulfill my expectations, I feel robbed of my money. Local Multiplayer is fun this year, but ML is not. So I feel that Konami owe me $20. :p
 
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after the recent ps3 update my pes is playing like shit, iv had enough of this game, one day its playing ok, the next the animations are stuttering, i really made an effort to try and enjoy this game, if konami dont make an effort next year iv had it with soccer games, individuality has been toned down too much, im over it fkn pissed
 
The ML cut scenes were a good idea but as usual Konami have fooked it up.
Would you really get a player moaning about playing 90 mins? would you really get a player moaning about changing number 3 times in 3 weeks? answer. No.

Its the first time since it was introduced that I am not playing ML this year.
 
who here has stopped or got bored of playing pes 2012 online on pc ???

i bought pes 2011 but after that i have no money for pes 2012 and i really wanna just try pes 2012 online in a good community. if anyody does have the pc version and is prepared to give me their key, then i will be very grateful to them.

plz if any 1 of u is bored of playing online then could u please help me out here. :(

thanks. :)
 
nadge said:
If I deleted patch 1.2 will my edit data be wiped, I'm using goalgerds file with chimps gameplay on ps 3
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No, it will be fine. :)

CalcioCalabrese said:
. Haven't heard any complaints on them in a while...are people noticing the improvements or it's just me?
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The keepers are very good in my experience, no concerns at all, very happy with them in patch 1.02.
 
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fanolato said:
By depth I mean, the world around football manager and how transfers and how things are very similarly if not identically structured to that of the real world. PES doesn't do that in ML, they could easily just give us more leagues for a lot of that depth. They should have a loyalty stat or something, I have seen Puyol with Madrid countless times. They should have a better youth system. Internationals should either be competitive or friendlies. So that if it's a friendly you can pull your player out of it. Player roles, so if you sign a player as a backup or rotation player, he won't complain when you are barely playing him. It's really not that hard.

I think Konami are undecided whether they want full realism in their ML or some of that old school fantasy ML. I really don't mind whichever side they take, but make a decision and run with it. FIFA are running with their idea, while it has bugs, its very playable. Too bad the gameplay is not what it should be. To me local multiplayer and Manager modes are the two most important reasons to buy a football games, and neither game cuts it sadly. Telling me not to play it, sounds like a fanboy answer to a justified complain. If you don't like much of the business side, I am sure they could just do what they did this year with adding the "board control" or whatever that was and actually make it mean something. So if you untick the "board control" you don't worry about business. So say you want a forward, you tell the board and they deal with it and bring in what they can. You tell the board whose expiring contracts you'd like to renew. They'll deal with the negotiations. For some of us the business is fun, and would love to have it so we tick on "board control" or whatever you want to call it. Surely Konami should add that.

PS

Other things they should add if Konami decides to go the realistic route:
  • There are no national supercup.
  • There are no games during the winter transfer window.
  • In cups like the English one where it's only one leg win or go home, the games are played in a random stadium instead of the home teams stadium. It just takes away from the immersion.
  • More divisions!!!(I'd love to take Sant Andreu from the Spanish 3rd tier to Primera and maybe some CL action)
  • A more intelligent version of training, I don't know how, but come up with something.
  • Loan deals IRL to be represented in the start of the game. It just takes away from the experience when Sergio Canales stays in Valencia w/o any negotiations.
  • Player contracts to mirror those of real life. Hector Moreno's contract with Espanyol ends in the very first season, despite him just arriving there in real life.
  • Being able to renew contracts at any point. Not just 6 months before it expires during the transfer period.
  • Make the negotiations more direct. That whole sending the scout to negotiate first is dull. Let us send what we feel is an acceptable offer. I really like what FIFA have done in regards of transfer negotiations. Konami should take note.
While somethings are bells and whistles, they add to the experience, and PES to me is ML and Local multiplayer. If either of those don't fulfill my expectations, I feel robbed of my money. Local Multiplayer is fun this year, but ML is not. So I feel that Konami owe me $20. :p
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I'm sorry I should have been more specific.
I didn't directly say to you stop playing the game. It was just a generalisation for people who obviously are not getting any enjoyment out of it.
 
I know a lot of people like building up aspect of ML and yeah i like it too but i've always thought that the game is counter productive in that it starts off much harder (i.e starting with the default ML team) than it ends up being the further you get into ML. The more you play ML the better your team gets and ergo the easier the game becomes. I have always thought this is a bit weird. After a while you have a good enough squad to win the title and that's basically it. You will probably get even better players and winning becomes easier and the whole thing gets stale. The solution, start again but why the hell would you want to do the EXACT same thing over again, you'll probably end up buying the same players too. I don't know i just find that it gets so bland. The only good bit is the part where you move away from the annoying default ML players and have a blend of semi good players but inevitably you always seem to find enough money to make your team better and better. Konami's solution to this seems to be up the scripting so that the better your team gets the more the CPU cheats and the more you struggle to win through the most unfair situation.

I used to think ML in PES was more akin to an rpg but now i do not and those cut-scenes, players randomly complaining about stuff certainly do not make it seem more like an RPG even if that was Konami's intended effect. I know i and other users (Jamezinho) would blame the moving to the more realistic ML structure to incorporate the real life European Competitions but that's only part of it. The whole first paragraph of problems i spoke about was always evident in the old ML structure, except perhaps the level of scripting induced in the CPU teams. They just haven't found a proper solution to that and the constant changing of the ML structure has meant that they seem to have avoided this wider issue of ML getting bland over time. I know i could be looking at it with rose-tinted specs but there was something about the old ML's that was just so damn enjoyable and kept drawing me back into them giving them a significant amount of longevity. On PES 5 i played about 15 seasons in one of my ML games and never even won the league but obviously something kept drawing me back in. Cup competitions felt like an achievement when you won them, now i think they feel like a waste of time. The team itself was good IIRC but not every player seemed overrated and became 99's like what i hear happens often now in ML. Personally i think there's also a hint of the game showing you too much of what is happening i.e players complaining and asking for certain numbers. I used to use my imagination a lot in determining why i thought players might be playing well or badly and who should get what shirt number and what not.

Plus the youth system is annoying IMO. I don't like the way some of them are so overpowered to begin with. They are always the same every single ML game you play too, ergo my point about you probably ending up with the same ML team across different ML careers. Using them just feels cheap to me. Maybe it's because i know they aren't real. I don't know.

I cannot suggest that me getting older might have a lot to do with ML not being as enjoyable but last summer i played WE9LE and played an ML for like two seasons and really enjoyed it. The reason i stopped playing is because WE9LE just wasn't as good a game as PES 2011 but in PES 2011 i just didn't enjoy ML either. I started with a default selection of players with the odd couple of average real players thrown in that i could afford and struggled over those two seasons to really get a better squad, as i didn't do that well. I still really enjoyed the experience though and felt closer to my players. Getting frustrated at them for doing badly or praising them when they played well. I simply cannot reproduce this same feeling with ML in the next gen games.
 
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That is a very good post Northzz.
I feel exactly the same. On one hand you have to give credit to Konami because they try to make it a much deeper experience...but i also enjoy myself less because i have less to imagine.

I remember we had a wonderfull ML thread in the old times with some regulars (denirobob, nerf, professor nutmeg, don domenic who always ended up playing with Juventus). I think it was denirobob who started it, but some of us really made up stories about our ML...i remember playing a ML where i was Jean Marc Bosman who became manager of Standard and afterwards of Palermo...Palermo is still one of my favourite clubs IRL...

When i want an experience like the one Konami is trying to give us, i simply play Football Manager, where the immersion is total...For me personally the immersion in ML is less than in PS2 era...

But somehow i find it a litle bit unjust to blame Konami for this aspect...they deserve respect and credit for the fact that they tried to make the ML more realistic and deeper...even if it is an halfhearted attempt.But sometimes i think we are an exasperating bunch: we are never satisfied.
 
The coach standing there with his clipboard telling me about the other team is annoying. Im constantly pressing A to get rid of him. I dont care what the other team will do. I will impose my style of play on them.
Half the time he is repeating the same old stuff.

Started another ML with Lille last night. Gonna ingore players whinges.
Signed Neymar and Anthony Gerrard. So far Played 3 W 2 L1
 
I agree with many of your points, Northzzz. I actually still have a PES5 ML on the go. I also always found it strange that ML started hard and got easier, the very opposite of most games.

When things got stale ( i would rarely win trophies though), i would just start another ML (particulalrly after a transfer window), but i would never use or buy the same players. I would generally do one default team ML and another real club ML. There are loads of players in the game so there's no need to buy the same player again.

I have to say, next gen PES is a bit of a chore for me, compared to the PS2 days and they've really stuffed up this years ML with all those silly inclusions. Did anyone testing the game not raise the question that it could be slightly annoying to have to sit through the same thing after every game?
 
SteelHorse75 said:
The coach standing there with his clipboard telling me about the other team is annoying. Im constantly pressing A to get rid of him. I dont care what the other team will do. I will impose my style of play on them.
Half the time he is repeating the same old stuff.

Started another ML with Lille last night. Gonna ingore players whinges.
Signed Neymar and Anthony Gerrard. So far Played 3 W 2 L1
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I agree about the coach reports. First time I saw it I thought "wow this is awesome", then I realised that he says almost the same thing about most teams, and that it bears no relation to how the AI play against you.

That said I tried carrying on my ML this time on v1.00, must have been on fire because I trounced the CPU 4-0 away from home :) However a couple of puzzling things did occur to me.

Firstly, it was the first time I'd noticed the complaints about shooting direction. Not that they were detrimental, two of my four goals went in the top right corner when I was very clearly and deliberately holding almost vertically down, not up, on the L stick. Great goals, but in the complete opposie side of the goal to where I aimed.

Secondly, I tried ML in PES2012 but afterwards resumed my old ML game on PES2011. Now, I scored some great goals last night on PES2012, but didn't get very excited at scoring them. Yet when I switched over to PES2011, a couple of goals I scored literally had me out of my seat. Modric hit a dipping volley using R2 which skimmed along the ground and flew into the corner. There seems to still be more 'weight' to 2011 which makes for far more satisfying goals. Really can't put my finger on it, but for that reason alone I still prefer 2011. IMO, goals somehow seem more realistic in 2011 too.

Oh and as a side note, I also found my old copy of PES2008 when having a clearout. I popped it in for 30 seconds, put it away again. Truly, truly, truly, truly facking terrible. The jump in quality from 2008 to 2012 is remarkable in hindsight.
 
@LTFC - My two mates - who like me are long term PES fans - love PES08 and still play it - whereas I hate it.

I even popped in my fav next gen game the other night - PES10 - and compared to PES12 its like the game is on drugs as its super fast!

Im getting used to PES12 now. Its not perfect but I have scored some good goals on it. There are silly moments but ill try and ignore them.
I still find shooting totally random though. I dont mind as long as long as they generate power. Nothing worse than some great build up play that finishes with a really poor and weak shot.
 
I hear you on that, old PES games were crazy fast. I can't believe that I never really noticed it at the time! That speed just seemed kinda 'normal'.

Well, I think I'll carry on my 2011 ML until I get bored. I still have my first ever Champions League to finish, that would mean I've won every trophy there is to win so I'll probably lose motivation once I've won that and climbed to no.1 in the world rankings. It's odd how attached to your old ML teams you can get. Rekindling my campagn with Schwarz (so good he's keeping Adebayor out of the side), Palmieri and the likes of Miljevic, Ayew etc is great.

At least then I'll be able to move on to PES2012 with some knowledge that v1.00 for me is playable. That match I won 4-0 was bizarre though, Shimizu dominated and scored a wonder goal, he squeezed between 4 players before flipping the ball over the keeper :))

I'm finding that having the camera set to one zoom level in from wide is best. It's closer, similar to wide on PES2011, and seems to make it easier to take touches of the ball away from tackles because you can see more clearly. It feels a tiny bit more precise.
 
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SteelHorse75 said:
The coach standing there with his clipboard telling me about the other team is annoying. Im constantly pressing A to get rid of him. I dont care what the other team will do. I will impose my style of play on them.
Half the time he is repeating the same old stuff.

Started another ML with Lille last night. Gonna ingore players whinges.
Signed Neymar and Anthony Gerrard. So far Played 3 W 2 L1
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I love that part! As soon as he tells me their target man or men I go to game plan and man mark them! It's handy info lads.
 
Some good points on ML here just started a campaign with Napoli and boy it's quite a chore to get through at times. Yet again Konami, "If it's not broke don't break it.... Last year was simple and immersive enough this year they've decided to ramp it up and executed it very poorly the cut scenes especially are just a waste of time & code.

Despite it's current rl type stature ML has felt dated for quite a while, I hear Adam is going to working on the next game well this is what he should be working on the overall product of the game. Because Seabass or whoever in charge of that area does not fully grasp certain aspects of football as a product.

ML needs the fundementals sorted out like the format(not enough leagues inc extra D2), transfer system(remember the old loan system where you could chose how long you want the player for?) and the ability to move clubs and the end of the season how long have we been asking for this now? It's been in Fifa for god knows how long. Adam could bring a lot of cohesion to the game as a product like bringing back international qualifiers(why the hell did they take this great mode out?).
 
Talking about passing assistance, why is it that when i set and save my personal settings ie auto clearance set to off and passing assistance bars etc, when i look at them in a game, they have changed? It's baffling me. I'm signed in as myself and using my settings.
 
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