PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

kobayashi said:
Top player AI in PES 2011 was great and to a very good quality despite it's issues here and there. Best in any football game.

It's regular I'm worried about, if Konami set online matches to Top players there's no issue but leaving it on regular will open up problems!
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I thought online matches were on Professional!?
 
kobayashi said:
everyinng sounds promising apart from this.



:RANT: fucking kids complaining! Online may descend into the Crisitano up from crap that was FIFA 09! All PES 2011 required was some effort and ACTUALLY tapping R1 and Holing R1 + R2

Now we will see these cheap players just holding the sprint button :RANT:
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i have no problems with that. i want this game to simulate football and in football, walcott can outsprint post players and i expect that to reflect in this game.
 
Careful now. I'd sooner be cautious now and get an amazing game, than expect the world and not quite get it. It does sound utterly amazing though. The list of answers were almost too good to be true.

I agree that fast players should be able to outpace slow ones. The current system allows lines to play way too high.

The key to getting it right is to improve the defensive awareness so that through balls aren't as destructive, making deeper defensive lines more desirable against pace.
 
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Its a drream!!! And one month after release we will have nightmares with both games...you know the drill,every year is the same
 
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jonneymendoza said:
why are you surprised?

PES11 is a masterpiece in the making. Build and improve on that base and it will piss all over fifa in terms of trying to simulate the game of football.
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I agree. Despite of some annoying bugs, i will never make a bad judgement of pes 2011 as i consider it the beginning of a new era for pes series.

But I think that konami is making pes 2012 more than just a fixed and tweaked version of pes 2011. From what i heard there are too much improvements in so many areas, and much focus on key ones for gameplay.

Pes 2012 definetly has potential to deserves :WORSHIP:

I hope in a very short future all we will need is just visual improvements (presentation, licenses, atmosphere of the game, animations and etc).
 
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romagnoli said:
Careful now. I'd sooner be cautious now and get an amazing game, than expect the world and not quite get it.

It does sound utterly amazing though. The list of answers were almost too good to be true.
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Indeed. Konami seem to have found the missing piece in their developing "flow" and got a good grip on it. Like I said before, they're on a developing spree, which can be seen with two things: Adam was really worried before Asim's preview because keepers were pretty much untouched and as horrible as PES 2011, specially in terms of animations. He also said that in his build there were no hints of continuous play. His play through was 4 weeks ago. Asim played E3 code, reports keepers are quality both in skill and animations, and that there are hints of continuous play present! These are just two small examples of what Konami is doing. Yep, they're doing alot.
 
Sorry, but these impressions are utter rubbish. Whats the point in saying everything is simply better? We hear the same every year from these 'insiders' who don't dare criticize the game. Even for the indefensible mess that was PES 08 and 09 was talked up

Why own a blog when you can't expand beyond 'Wow this is good!', why not something slightly deeper with a footballing interpretation? Some of the chaps on here would be much more informative if they were sent. Least then we'd have some vague idea how it's shaping up, and not some idealistic picture of some 10/10 masterpiece that only builds false hope toward the release.

Not get me wrong, I'm well optimistic about the game but I cannot stand hyperbole. I'm not saying they cant praise the development, but at least delve into something a little deeper than 'it's good' or 'it's better'.
 
dannyfc2 said:
Sorry, but these impressions are utter rubbish. Whats the point in saying everything is simply better? We hear the same every year from these 'insiders' who don't dare criticize the game. Even for the indefensible mess that was PES 08 and 09 was talked up

Why own a blog when you can't expand beyond 'Wow this is good!', why not something slightly deeper with a footballing interpretation? Some of the chaps on here would be much more informative if they were sent. Least then we'd have some vague idea how it's shaping up, and not some idealistic picture of some 10/10 masterpiece that only builds false hope toward the release.

Not get me wrong, I'm well optimistic about the game but I cannot stand hyperbole. I'm not saying they cant praise the development, but at least delve into something a little deeper than 'it's good' or 'it's better'.
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I agree, the previews so far have been wishy-washy. But the Q&A was extremely exciting even if it isn't a proper preview.

Ironically, Adam and Suffwan write up was supposed to be incredible detailed but Konami didn't allowed them to post it 'cause their views would be on a fairly older code than this E3 one. But there's the podcast, so we'll see.

Everyone should take it as they wish, as long they don't get cynical. I'm an enthusiastic person by nature (and honestly I don't want to change on that aspect) but like romagnoli said, the best solution for most people is to keep on being cautious and get impressed later on than the opposite.
 
jonneymendoza said:
i have no problems with that. i want this game to simulate football and in football, walcott can outsprint post players and i expect that to reflect in this game.
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But i don't want a scenario with FIFA 09 or some of the older PES games where all you do is hold the sprint button with Walcott or enter fast player name here: and whoosh!!! Easy goal. I liked the system in PES 2011 where you could break away but it was hard, you had to time using R1+R2 and tap R1. Kids want it so you just hold sprint and whoosh!!!

romagnoli said:
Careful now. I'd sooner be cautious now and get an amazing game, than expect the world and not quite get it. It does sound utterly amazing though. The list of answers were almost too good to be true.
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I know, it's just one guys opinion.

I agree that fast players should be able to outpace slow ones.
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Isslander said it right, there is a very delicate balance needed to be met, i feel PES 2011 isn't far off, it just needed to sort out the problem where if a defender touched you and latched onto you (jostle) You couldn't break free from him. If that's the ONLY change then that's fine but still even in PS 2011 I mean if you 2-3 yards away from a defender as long as you tap R1 etc.. your fine. Against the AI and online. When I'm testing formations out and i use Madrid now and again, with Crisitano at times nobody can catch him! You know from MLO even with the current system people still fill their teams with Speed merchants like Dotan, Robben etc.. Konami NEED to get this right! It's vital so kids actually have to make an effort to use a players pace!
 
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kobayashi said:
But i don't want a scenario with FIFA 09 or some of the older PES games where all you do is hold the sprint button with Walcott or enter fast player name here: and whoosh!!! I liked the system in PES 2011 where you could break away but it was hard, you had to time using R1+R2 and tap R1. Kids want it so you just hold sprint and whoosh!!!
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It better be stat based ball control attribute rather than multi-button combos!
 
kobayashi said:
Isslander said it right, there is a very delicate balance needed to be met, i feel PES 2011 isn't far off, it just needed to sort out the problem where if a defender touched you and latched onto you (jostle) You couldn't break free from him. If that's the ONLY change then that's fine but still even in PS 2011 I mean if you 2-3 yards away from a defender as long as you tap R1 etc.. your fine. Against the AI and online. When I'm testing formations out and i use Madrid now and again, with Crisitano at times nobody can catch him! You know from MLO even with the current system people still fill their teams with Speed merchants like Dotan, Robben etc.. Konami NEED to get this right! It's vital so kids actually have to make an effort to use a players pace!
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If that had been the case where tapping R1 really helped as much as you imply then that would have been great, but it just wasn't. The extent to which players would be pegged back was too much an it was a cheap way to balance the game, along the lines of something FIFA would do, and indeed has done in the past.

Pace has always been a problem because no game really wants to represent dribbling inaccuracy properly. One day a football game will come up with the sort of solution to that particular problem (which is more likely to be irregular touches in a straight line rather than inaccuracy left or right) but until then, it's wrong to just use rubber banding to the extent PES 2011 did. It was too cheap a solution to the problem.
 
But you can switch to digital, as the button layout images indirectly showed. Or did Asimov explicitly check and they've removed that option since?
 
All Asim's impressions sound amazing, but anyone know if this guy is reliable?
 
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romagnoli said:
If that had been the case where tapping R1 really helped as much as you imply then that would have been great, but it just wasn't. The extent to which players would be pegged back was too much an it was a cheap way to balance the game, along the lines of something FIFA would do, and indeed has done in the past.
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It helped for me, i did a video showing you can stay ahead of opposition chasing after you

YouTube - Rubber banding? Tap R1 to stay ahead!

I mean isn't Drogba faster than Ribery in the game btw?

Again there was an issue with when a opponent was behind you and 'tagged' you you couldn't break from him. It's good that's gone but i don't want in the situation above for me to just motor away from Drogba or any other player with such ease holding down R1.

Rubber banding is in the game, but i don't think it's as bad as people make out and with a bit of effort you can still break away from players.

Pace has always been a problem because no game really wants to represent dribbling inaccuracy properly. One day a football game will come up with the sort of solution to that particular problem (which is more likely to be irregular touches in a straight line rather than inaccuracy left or right) but until then, it's wrong to just use rubber banding to the extent PES 2011 did. It was too cheap a solution to the problem.
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The issue i don't think is dribble accuracy. It's more finding a good balance with the sprint mechanism. I want tapping R1 to represent sprint bursts and if you want to run at full speed You use R1+R2. I believe a system where there should be at least a 20-25 spirnt speed point difference for the attacker to maintain and slightly pull away from the defender if just holding R1 for sprint.

If he wants to pull away he needs to worry about tapping R1. So if for example he's through on goal, he's got to worry about maintaining the distance between him and the chasing defenders which will make scoring harder if he has to think about that along with how to score.

With FIFA and other PES games, you break free 1 on 1 and you know they wont catch him and it's an easy goal.

Sorry rom, I'm concerned and skeptical about this. PES 2011 reminds me a lot of where EA where with FIFA 08, i just hope PES 2012 turns into what FIFA 09 should have been, not what it turned out to be (Nice animations but an arcade sprint fest)
 
@PESKingsBlog Nope, auto kick-off is out. You press the button to start things off. @JonMurphy_PES said he personally asked for that. ;)

Did we know this?
 
I hope pace is made more prevalent this year, but without being overdone. I hated nothing more than PES6/FIFA 09's speed demon abusing! Although how it is in PES 2011 promotes too much constant quick passing.

It happens too often that you beat a defender with a few clever touches or a feint, but within a few strides he's right on your back again, you should be able to gain more ground even with slower players.

I think the problems with tackling/referees in PES 2011 compound this problem by making pressuring from the side/behind too easy;
Player directly in front of you sprinting with the ball, you can hold sprint pressure, catch them up easily and "jostle" with them, they stumble, you collect the ball.

In real life that is a really awkward situation for the defending player - you have to be really cautious so as not to clip the player's leg and trip them, you'd have to bust a gut to make up the ground if they're sprinting etc.

Zidane for example, especially in his later years, could expertly protect the ball and dribble past players despite lacking raw pace, due to clever touches and putting his body in the way of the ball and the opponents.

In PES, you just get crowded out really if you try that.

Hopefully this is better in 2012.
 
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_anderson said:
:CONFUSE: I was never able to get such distance in my PES 2011. And yes I tap R1 a lot.
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That's because Ribery has the speed merchant card. They're treated differently as far as rubber banding is concerned. I noticed this fairly early on in my D2 MLO stint - Milner wasfinding it disproportionately hard to keep up with speed merchants that had got goal side of him, while players with better pace stats werent getting away from him so much.
 
Adam's tweets seem to be pure hype.
On the one hand, Asim's write-up said shooting and passing are unchanged. Adam, on the other hand seems to suggest they have reached a whole new orgasmic level. hmm...
 
Northzzz said:
@PESKingsBlog Nope, auto kick-off is out. You press the button to start things off. @JonMurphy_PES said he personally asked for that. ;)

Did we know this?
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We do now, good riddance.
 
Musy said:
Adam's tweets seem to be pure hype.
On the one hand, Asim's write-up said shooting and passing are unchanged. Adam, on the other hand seems to suggest they have reached a whole new orgasmic level. hmm...
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Talk about distorting things.

First up, you have the tweaked ball physics which provide a much more realistic feel to the overall passing and shooting. It’s extremely hard to describe the exact effect, but don’t be surprised to see the ball occasionally bobble across the turf after a poorly hit pass or shot.
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Close to what Adam has said. Also, Adam and Suffwan had a full day of playtest while Asim had 30/40 minutes.

Also, disregarding a huge Q&A as pure hype is daring. But I understand such a comment, just a shame people talk about things they don't know about.
 
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