PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

CalcioCalabrese said:
Frustrating as hell - but it does happen in real life. Maybe the animation of him not looking like he is going to clear it makes it look worse but there's confusion, lack of reaction etc and the ball bundles in off his foot. Sometimes they hit the post and stay out and sometimes they roll in.

I'm finding a recurring theme here and it's not pointed at anyone but it seems that people want to be in control. If something happens and it represents football realistically but you didn't mean it or you couldn't stop it, then people get upset.

For example, in a real game, when a striker is heading towards goal and tries to hit a shot to the corner but hits it weakly or straight at the keeper (which happens a lot in real life) it's annoying for him and for the fans but he knows there was something not quite right about the way he hit the ball. If it happens on PES, where someone aims for one side and it goes straight or weakly at the keeper, instead of acknowledging that the same scenario in real life could have yielded the same outcome, it's cheating or lazy programming - "why do I keep trusting Konami?" bla bla bla bla.

As my very devout FIFA playing friend says, FIFA is about how good the person on the controller is, not necessarily how good the player on screen is. This was in response to a discussion about how on PES, Messi is quite visibly one of the best players in the game, but on FIFA he's okay but not standout because he lacks physical strength and presence and his dribbling can't be utilised as well.

If you want full control of your gameplay experience, play FIFA and maybe play full manual. It's rewarding when it comes off but once you master it, the game and shooting can still become "samey". But if you're playing PES, respect that it's not consistent with some things, because if they were that consistent in real life, scorelines would be a lot higher and we would see a lot less mistakes...which is not true.
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As always, another great post from a someone who truly understands the game of football. In my opinion. :TU:
 
Really have to say, sorry Jimmy, I totally respect and enjoy the majority of your posts, but you can't make an assertion that just because people like one sports game over another, that means they have a superior knowledge of football. That's crazy.

I know you play to a decent level, as have I, so I have a very good knowledge of how the game works. But lets be honest, none of us here are exactly Jose Mourinho are we!

People like games for different reasons. I'm in agreement with you that PES likes to concentrate on the fundamentals of balance, body positioning etc, that's a given, but many people simply prefer FIFA because in many respects, as a videogame, it's a better experience this year. And much like in PES, if you choose to play it properly then it's a very good videogame replication of the sport. It's just different to PES. Some like it, some don't, but it's not an indication of a person's knowledge of the real thing.

Just sayin' like, don't wanna start any kind of row. There's been enough of them on here already :P
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
As always, another great post from a someone who truly understands the game of football. In my opinion. :TU:
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Come on Jimmy, you're making yourself sound quite arrogant.

All of us here love football. Most of us still play or have played all our lives. We all watch football. It's our passion. You don't have to have played the game at a professional level to understand the game. Jose Mourinho and Andre Villas-Boas never did.

So easy on the holier than thou attitude please.
 
LTFC said:
Really have to say, sorry Jimmy, I totally respect and enjoy the majority of your posts, but you can't make an assertion that just because people like one sports game over another, that means they have a superior knowledge of football. That's crazy.

I know you play to a decent level, as have I, so I have a very good knowledge of how the game works. But lets be honest, none of us here are exactly Jose Mourinho are we!

People like games for different reasons. I'm in agreement with you that PES likes to concentrate on the fundamentals of balance, body positioning etc, that's a given, but many people simply prefer FIFA because in many respects, as a videogame, it's a better experience this year. And much like in PES, if you choose to play it properly then it's a very good videogame replication of the sport. It's just different to PES. Some like it, some don't, but it's not an indication of a person's knowledge of the real thing.

Just sayin' like, don't wanna start any kind of row. There's been enough of them on here already :P
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That's not what I'm saying at all LT, I think Fifa is a very good game this year. I bought it a couple of day's after it was released for my son, and I've played it a few times with him. It's just not my bag. There is still something missing for me personally, and that's the 'feel' of the real game.

What I said about Calcio is how I feel. There are a handful of people left on this forum, that I can relate to, and that's basically it. The rest have left for pastures new, like Pere Ubu, Zeemeister, Kaiser, Rom et al. When I say he know's his football, that is merely my own opinion. I enjoying reading his posts because I can completely relate to them, he talks my language if you like.

People can prefer which ever game they so choose, it matters not to me. Just enjoy your football. My point is, that my opinion is completely irrelvant.
 
Jamezinho said:
Come on Jimmy, you're making yourself sound quite arrogant.

All of us here love football. Most of us still play or have played all our lives. We all watch football. It's our passion. You don't have to have played the game at a professional level to understand the game. Jose Mourinho and Andre Villas-Boas never did.

So easy on the holier than thou attitude please.
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My opinion Jamez, and I'm sticking with it. Nobody has to agree, I couldnt care less. I won't change my stance or my point of view. Regardless of how it comes across.

Edit - After all, what do I know ?
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
My opinion Jamez, and I'm sticking with it. Nobody has to agree, I couldnt care less. I won't change my stance or my point of view. Regardless of how it comes across.
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That's fair enough. I'm not asking you to change your opinion. Just saying there's no need to belittle others through implication that they don't understand football.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Well there is actually a 3rd guy, Think he's from Croatia he really understands football as he thinks PES 2012 is the perfect game much like the beautiful game. :BOP:
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To be perfectly honest there are quite a lot of people who understands football, but i haven't the impression you are one of them judged on your posts in this thread.
I remember your reply with the GT-analogy. GT is even less of a sim than FIFA or PES. All good sims are dumbed down a litle bit. There was one real sim, a rally game, it had the name of an English WRC world champion (Burns?), that was a real sim...for 99% of the people like me and most people around here that game was unplayable if you weren't a rally driver.

When i said you needed to play PES like real football, i wasn't speaking playing football like a professional football player, but playing football like on the pitch...like it is supposed to be played. You don't need to be a fantastic football player to know how it is supposed to be played (Mourinho for example was never a good football player, just like Benitez...i think you will agree with me that they know how football is played). No offense meant, but if you don't see that, then you don't understand football...

In that same post i even said that arguably FIFA is the better game, but PES is more sim than FIFA...(and PES is also a dumbed down sim, but the basics are the same as irl football...you have to build up attacks patiently just like most teams do in real football....).

I'm far from the only one who has seen that...
 
Jamezinho said:
That's fair enough. I'm not asking you to change your opinion. Just saying there's no need to belittle others through implication that they don't understand football.
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Fair enough Jamez, but lets flip the coin over for a second...

So what about all the people on here, throughout the threads, that are slating the game, stating that it plays nothing like football, and how could Konami produce something so poor ? Are they not belittling me and those who feel it replicates the sport very well ? Surely they must be, by the very same token ?
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Fair enough Jamez, but lets flip the coin over for a second...

So what about all the people on here, throughout the threads, that are slating the game, stating that it plays nothing like football, and how could Konami produce something so poor ? Are they not belittling me and those who feel it replicates the sport very well ? Surely they must be, by the very same token ?
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If they are openly saying those things then yes, that's unacceptable too.

Shall we all get one thing clear; we all love the sport of football and football games. That's why we are here. I'm sure we all have a deep understanding of football and all it's intricacies, but some of us want different things from a football game. It's not a case of lack of understanding.

For what it's worth I'm in the middle ground between the two football titles this year. I agree that PES2012 is a better replication of football at base level than Fifa. That's always been the case and still is. It's the fact that PES is shrouded in such a dated engine and all-round package that lets the game down. Surely it's come to a point, Jimmy, that even you would like to see PES in a better state than it is? Hand on heart, is PES2012 what you genuinely expected of next-gen PES back when you were playing on the PS2?

If you're like me then PES2012 is nothing like where I imagined PES would be by now.
 
Jamez, I just enjoy it bud. I really do, on the settings I use, I feel they have nailed it better than any other PES to date. I hate the Assisted Passing Assistance levels, I feel that is a sell-out, but on Zero Assistance, for me, it's as good as it's ever been.

Check some of the posts on the other threads, and you'll see where I'm coming from. Apparently, I'm blinkered, I'm blind, PES is a sinking ship etc etc etc. Now please, tell me, is that not provocation ? Is that someone not telling me that I dont know football ? I think it is. So my response is simply to recognise those who see the game the same way as I do. If that's holier than thou, then not only is that a very harsh comment, but it's also false bearing in mind, it's only my opinion.

Of course I wish to see PES at the best it can be, but right now, it is. I dont play Fifa, I dont wish to piss myself off with what Fifa does better, I'm happy where I am.

There are many people still here that feel the way I do, Calcio, Shank, Olly, Zlac, CcShop, Raven, Gerd, Danny,Makky, Goalgerd, Chimps et al. And as long as these people still post, then I'll come here to read.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
Jamez, I just enjoy it bud. I really do, on the settings I use, I feel they have nailed it better than any other PES to date. I hate the Assisted Passing Assistance levels, I feel that is a sell-out, but on Zero Assistance, for me, it's as good as it's ever been.
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It's great that you enjoy it so much and personally I am getting to a point with the game where I can see the good in it. While I don't agree that they've nailed it, some things about the game really do shine.

I agree that the pass assistance levels are a bad idea. They had the right idea with PES2011 but I feel Seabass has caved in to feedback from Fifa fans. As I've always maintained, I would prefer it if everyone plays the game with the same fundamental control system, as we always used to.

Jimmy G-Force said:
Check some of the posts on the other threads, and you'll see where I'm coming from. Apparently, I'm blinkered, I'm blind, PES is a sinking ship etc etc etc. Now please, tell me, is the not provocation ? Is that someone not telling me that I dont know football ? I think it is. So my response is simply to recognise those who see the game the same way as I do. If that's holier than thou, then not only is that a very harsh comment, but it's also false bearing in mind, it's only my opinion.

Of cours I wish to see PES at the best it can be, but right now, it is. I dont play Fifa, I dont wish to piss myself off with what Fifa does better, I'm happy where I am.
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I don't think you're blinkered. You try Fifa and it's not your thing so that's fine. To be honest I see the game of football the same way you do but I think it's more constructive to take PES to task over the things it doesn't do well.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Jamez, I just enjoy it bud. I really do, on the settings I use, I feel they have nailed it better than any other PES to date. I hate the Assisted Passing Assistance levels, I feel that is a sell-out, but on Zero Assistance, for me, it's as good as it's ever been.

Check some of the posts on the other threads, and you'll see where I'm coming from. Apparently, I'm blinkered, I'm blind, PES is a sinking ship etc etc etc. Now please, tell me, is that not provocation ? Is that someone not telling me that I dont know football ? I think it is. So my response is simply to recognise those who see the game the same way as I do. If that's holier than thou, then not only is that a very harsh comment, but it's also false bearing in mind, it's only my opinion.

Of course I wish to see PES at the best it can be, but right now, it is. I dont play Fifa, I dont wish to piss myself off with what Fifa does better, I'm happy where I am.

There are many people still here that feel the way I do, Calcio, Shank, Olly, Zlac, CcShop, Raven, Gerd, Danny, Goalgerd, Chimps et al. And as long as these people still post, then I'll come here to read.
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Just to compound your post Jim, I rented FIFA today, I heard there was a new patch out and because I have played so much of PES this last two weeks I thought I'd opt for a change of scenery.

This is what happens - I play PES, I love it, I play it some more, I still love it, I then play it so much that I convince myself that I'm missing out on FIFA; I then go to Blockbusters to rent it, play it for 30 minutes, and realise that ONCE AGAIN I've been the biggest twat in the world, find the nearest fishmongers and slap my face with the wettest mackerel there, I then put PES back in the drive.

I just don't get this FIFA love. For me, having everything 6/10 just doesn't cut it with me, I'd rather have 'the feel' of the game and gameplay at 95%, and put up with the shit animations, shit menus and songs, shit presentation etc etc. Fundamentally I play football games to have that representation; ie football on the pitch.

Attacking on FIFA -

Okay this area isn't so bad, but PES still shits all over it. Attacking is okay, there's not much movement to speak of, and it's a bit of a forced grind as you trigger everything just to get some f'ing movement going. It's not free at all, it's probably much better at disguising that it's very un-free. Anyway, just as dull boring grind.

Defending on FIFA -

Okay PES' defensive mechanism has come in for criticism by many, and I think this is totally, totally wrong. Defending in PES is an art; but it works. Defending in FIFA is a bit of a joke, the CPU use illusory 'build up play' probably programmed to get possession fairly equal, that is why you have Burton Albion playing like Barcelona. Then the CPU script will just kick in and they will trigger the ball to leave even numbers on each other, three on three, two on two, or the most often used one on one. The CPU favourite is to get the CPU attacker out wide and attack the corner of the 18 yard box, here you then have a really responsive CPU attacker with pace, acceleration, and agility v a defender, like Jamie Carragher, who has the response of a dead camel. His speed is shocking, his acceleration is shocking, he is just shocking. It doesn't matter that he has DEFENSIVE KNOWLEDGE and should have defender stats, that fact that he is slow, lacks acceleration means he is virtually useless.

JUST THE FEEL OF THE GAME

Again I'm with Jim. For me FIFA doesn't resemble football, in that it doesn't have an underlying knowledge of things like pressuring, unit positioning, and the way that players interact with each other. Kudos to KONAMI on this, they must have watched hours of real footage in terms of how people press and stand off, how units move together, and just generally the ebb and flow of a game. I don't care if EA have a thousand hours of commentary, or the crowds have 85 chants. If what I get when I play it is just lifeless nonsense, then I won't play it further.

In PES on the higher levels, I defend like I see on the tele, with jockeying, good player positioning and pressing where it's needed and backing off where it's needed. I feel I can make a difference to the CPU attacking me, in FIFA it's just illusory build up, only to get to a point where the CPU just triggers that moment to get one on one, and there is nothing much that can be done about it. The contain function is the most pointless thing since a chocolate tea pot.

So...I'm five pound worse off and FIFA is back in the case where it should be. I have given myself fifty lashes, and I vow never to waste any more money on FIFA....it doesn't get better, only in my head!
 
It's not even a Fifa argument for me bud. It's all about PES. I just dont get those who feel the likes of PES 6 are superior or more realistic. Or that because PES doesnt have all the bells and whistles, then it's gameplay falters. Rubbish.

It's by far the hardest PES I've ever played, (on Zero, which I believe to be Seabass's offering to the Hardcore) and I've murdered every version, and exclusively on Top Player. Not this year. This is a different animal altogether, but for those who think it doesnt play out like real football, I'm gobsmacked as to what they perceive 'real' football to be ?

Yourself and others 'get it', and that's all that matters to me.

What is strange though, is that those that 'get it', are the ones the are labelled blind, or fanboys, or whatever. Yet, those that dont, feel they are the ones that are right as they wallow in their ignorance. It doesnt work that way, if people genuinely 'get it', then those that don't see it, truly are the one's that need to be questioned. ;)
 
Jamezinho said:
It's great that you enjoy it so much and personally I am getting to a point with the game where I can see the good in it. While I don't agree that they've nailed it, some things about the game really do shine.

I agree that the pass assistance levels are a bad idea. They had the right idea with PES2011 but I feel Seabass has caved in to feedback from Fifa fans. As I've always maintained, I would prefer it if everyone plays the game with the same fundamental control system, as we always used to.



I don't think you're blinkered. You try Fifa and it's not your thing so that's fine. To be honest I see the game of football the same way you do but I think it's more constructive to take PES to task over the things it doesn't do well.
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Of course it is. Constructive criticism is a good thing, as it helps the developers of the game see where they are going wrong, or what improvements can be made. It needs to be done.
However, the level of negativity on this thread a couple of weeks ago was astounding, and some of the comments were over the top, not helping at all. (Not directed at anyone in particular).
Pes 2012 has definitely improved on it's predecessor and while on this gen, will still continue to improve but it won't be major. It will be a painstakingly slow evolutionary process.
Next gen hopefully we can still have the gameplay, but with stunningly smooth graphics and a football match atmosphere which completely immerses you.
 
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While I enjoy PES 2012 a lot, I do think that there are shortcomings, and that is what should be pointed out the loudest so that Konami listen and change those problems.

Crossing, much too easy. CBs letting people run behind them in those crosses.

Shooting, could use some more power at times.

I sometimes hate that my FB tuck inside and my CB ends up covering the wide play.

The shape of the line is much too moving, they overpursue players trying to make a run behind them, and then there is this whole lot of space that becomes playable.

Animations in general should be much better. PES 5 and 6 flowed its animations much better. (not that they are better games)

I am sure more people can come up with more stuff.

It's not that PES 2012 is a bad game, far from it, but as Jamezinho said, I expected more from this generation of football games.
 
I'm sure Portugal are the Tottenham of the international teams. Defenders and wingers with overly high overall stats.

Actually it does make me laugh that for some reason Konami think that Dawson and Gallas are unbelievably good. Not even sure where they pulled that evaluation would be pulled from but isn't Dawson one of the best defenders on the game? Likewise i'm sure Rolando and Bruno Alves are decent defenders but 86 and 85 just seem obscene for Portugese defenders as do Pepe and Carvalho's ratings to a lesser extent. Maybe i'm just forgetting about the famed Portugese defensive lockdown but judging from how many goals they shipped during the qualifiers i'd say it's just Konami being overly generous.

I don't play this game online but if i did i bet those two teams would absolutely nightmarish.

We can talk all day about the merits of actually judging players based on overall stats. Personally i wouldn't put too much weight into them but as Konami seem to be pinning more and more focus on them as opposed to individual stats (hate the fact you have to open 5 separate bits to see all of the player's individual attributes during gameplan) i'd say that it's hard to get away from accidentally judging players based on them.
 
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Also something else i wanted to ask but have Konami put on a power modifier this year?

I have changed the default controls around but holding R2 after shooting definitely puts more power on than a normal shot

L2 is finesse shot
LB is still chip

Is this something that has happened after i have put on Jenkey's patch because i cannot really remember it happening before.

EDIT: I'm checking it out in training and it definitely does something because unlike with a normal B shot there's a little stutter animation every time making it look like he's adjusting to do something differently.
 
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ccshopland said:
Okay PES' defensive mechanism has come in for criticism by many, and I think this is totally, totally wrong. Defending in PES is an art; but it works. Defending in FIFA is a bit of a joke, the CPU use illusory 'build up play' probably programmed to get possession fairly equal, that is why you have Burton Albion playing like Barcelona. Then the CPU script will just kick in and they will trigger the ball to leave even numbers on each other, three on three, two on two, or the most often used one on one. The CPU favourite is to get the CPU attacker out wide and attack the corner of the 18 yard box, here you then have a really responsive CPU attacker with pace, acceleration, and agility v a defender, like Jamie Carragher, who has the response of a dead camel. His speed is shocking, his acceleration is shocking, he is just shocking. It doesn't matter that he has DEFENSIVE KNOWLEDGE and should have defender stats, that fact that he is slow, lacks acceleration means he is virtually useless.
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What did you think of Tactical Defending overall? You don't specifically mention any settling-in period, using unfamiliar buttons and an alien set of concepts -- or are you saying you got it straightaway?

And related to PES and the future, what do you think the future is for the pressurising model of defending? I would like to see a TRUE simulation of stamina in PES, offline and online. It'd solve a lot of online players' worries at a stroke. Offline, it'd make us very wary of the automatic sprint-pressure response to any spell of CPU possession.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
R2 is your Controlled Shot. The stutter will be the player opening up his body.
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That's what i thought and after a couple of games of trying to do control shot i noticed it wasn't happening and now LT is control shot for me. I just checked this in free training.

RT puts on more power. It's akin to the way it works in Fifa if you're familiar with that. Personally it surprised me. I quite like it but it's hard to use because more power means more elevation, which means it basically goes over the bar everytime.

Just checking but by control shot you meant the shot that opts for less power and more accuracy (i.e for placing it) right?
 
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makky said:
Of course it is. Constructive criticism is a good thing, as it helps the developers of the game see where they are going wrong, or what improvements can be made. It needs to be done.
However, the level of negativity on this thread a couple of weeks ago was astounding, and some of the comments were over the top, not helping at all. (Not directed at anyone in particular).
Pes 2012 has definitely improved on it's predecessor and while on this gen, will still continue to improve but it won't be major. It will be a painstakingly slow evolutionary process.
Next gen hopefully we can still have the gameplay, but with stunningly smooth graphics and a football match atmosphere which completely immerses you.
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Trouble is though, makky, painstakingly slow is not good enough when Konami are losing sales and plaudits within the industry, let alone being nearly a generation behind in terms of tech. If there isn't a deep sense of urgency within Konami to rescue PES, then there should be. They've had enough wake-up calls and one day it will be critical for the franchise.

The old ways of slow evolution don't apply when your game is no longer number one.
 
Keith Houchen said:
What did you think of Tactical Defending overall? You don't specifically mention any settling-in period, using unfamiliar buttons and an alien set of concepts -- or are you saying you got it straightaway?

And related to PES and the future, what do you think the future is for the pressurising model of defending? I would like to see a TRUE simulation of stamina in PES, offline and online. It'd solve a lot of online players' worries at a stroke. Offline, it'd make us very wary of the automatic sprint-pressure response to any spell of CPU possession.
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I more than just 'got it', I had the game when it came out so gave it weeks, but the faults are glaring for me. The final straw came for me some weeks ago when I just picked the game up and beat Arsenal 3-1 (World Class) in my first game for a week. My three goals were one-two's finesse finishes. Just rubbish.

Tactical defending was brought in to a response by many that legacy defending was just too easy, too automated. Particularly online, many people would go the powerhouse teams, including Chelsea, and just hunt you down with the pressure buttons. Soon, the noobs became clever enough to use the two pressure buttons, your man press and secondary press, this made the games into a hot potato affair, where the ball would just ping pong around, with little or no effect on stamina.

Now, what EA should have done was this - keep the legacy defending as pressing is just as legitimate a tactic as dropping off, but the price of CONSTANT PRESSING should have been a marked decrease in not only stamina but overall playability. Therefore you would have had an instant trade-off, if you press, fine, you risk gaining the ball at the top end of the pitch, but if it doesn't come off then a) your players get f'ked and quick and b) your team loses strategic placement.

In short then, a pressing game may work, but there would be consequences like leaving yourself open to just pass through you and your players get tired.

FIFA12, using FIFA11 but introducing this concept would have been excellent. By introducing this, and making the tackle radius smaller than it was on FIFA11, I'm pretty sure FIFA12 would have been a huge, huge hit.

However, in response to the people who thought the game had gone too arcade, they changed the defensive system to something so shit it hardly needs words. The CONTAIN function is next to useless on the higher levels, unless you use contain and secondary contain (which is kind of cheating). What tactical defending does by using singular contain is give all CPU players five yards gap in which you mirror them, eventually the CPU will just pass the ball around until it gets you one on one at the corner of the 18 yard box, then it's a lottery. Now in PES, the AI is good enough that when you jockey, you stall the opposition and give your team time to get back into shape, in FIFA you just mirror their man but one on one, whilst your entire useless team just leave Walcott alone with Carragher without any covering or any defending intelligence. Attackers in FIFA12 have much higher acceleration and speed stats, defenders who are good in real life (like Jamie Carragher for example) are shit in this game, because being slow in this game is a cardinal sin.

What tactical defending is, is just swapping one set of automation (legacy defending) for something else automated (tactical).

The other point I could write all day about is the way FIFA12 is programmed and it's illusory build up play. But I can't be arsed so I won't.

Now onto your other point; I honestly think the future is something like PES has now, the way of defending in PES now, I believe, is genius. The jockeying gap is just enough to get close but not commit, and close enough to tackle.

NOW, onto the MAIN POINT THAT HAS TO CHANGE IN PES -

CPU BUILD UP PLAY

Pro Evo's aim for next year is to improve on the way the CPU attack. They are simply not patient enough. It is also far too easy to play football yourself.

By this I mean - when teams in real life sufficiently pressure, teams go back or across, and start again. If you want a true simulation then this has to be addressed.

In PES (all versions) it is simply TOO EASY to play good football. You hardly ever get pressured into having to hoof the ball (which happens all the time), and the CPU never put you under sufficient pressure to make you go backwards, likewise, when you put the CPU under pressure and pressure areas of the pitch, the CPU would rather lose possession than play it back or sideways. A few people have touched on the problems that need to be addressed for the future games, and this is main one, it's that the players don't respond to the ball, they respond to other players movement. THE BALL IS THE KEY IN REAL LIFE. For example, if I have the ball with my CB and I'm on the halfway line and pass it sideways to my full back on the touchline, what would happen in real life is that that full back would be hunted down immediately by the winger and possibly a central midfielder, they would hunt in packs of two or three just sufficiently so that passing it back to the CB in the middle would be suicide and the only options would be is to either pass the ball back to the keeper or lose possession, or hoof it long, this doesn't happen in PES. You can play like Ajax round your back four.

PES' aim should be to 1) get teams playing like their real life counterparts. 2) to get the CPU to play possession football and to draw you out of your defensive positions. 3) To be much more intelligent to when to press and when to contain.

Football is all about space, and by sensibly cutting down space by hunting in groups, you eventually put pressure on the ball carrier without even directly pressuring him by running at him.

Why do top sides pass the ball along the back so often? To create space elsewhere should the defending side over commit and try and press improperly. I suppose one way of making things a little more compact would be to reduce the size of the pitch, the PES pitch seems fkin massive.

So there's a few titbits for thoughts, in my mind, they could no worse than start here!
 
Jamezinho said:
Trouble is though, makky, painstakingly slow is not good enough when Konami are losing sales and plaudits within the industry, let alone being nearly a generation behind in terms of tech. If there isn't a deep sense of urgency within Konami to rescue PES, then there should be. They've had enough wake-up calls and one day it will be critical for the franchise.

The old ways of slow evolution don't apply when your game is no longer number one.
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I know Jamezinho, but they are heading in the right direction, in terms of gameplay only. I doubt they are going to do anything massive on this gen, so we are stuck with little improvements here and there. Improvements which only the hardcore PES heads are going to notice.
It's when we all stop caring, that the franchise is in trouble. Undoubtedly we are the ones keeping it alive.
If PES ceased to exist that would signal the end of football games for me.
Time to hang up my thumbs.
 
I will have an updated file out in the next few days

I have spent a couple of hours tonight re-editing premier league teams to make them more responsive and more naturally paced. Some teams were too fast and have been slowed slightly and others have been made more dangerous up front.

Also edited a lot of Spanish teams further as well as the big three portuguese teams.

I will give the german teams another go and then release another file out soon.
 
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