PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

pboreham said:
Amazing game just then. My spurs v stoke in a friendly. They BATTERED me. Long balls, long throws, winning the second ball and playing football around my box. Amazingly realistic.

Spurs were too, once I could get on the ball, Parker, modric, bale and vdv tore them up and Adebayor immense in a loan role up top.

Great game, had everything - great shots, saves, build up, tackles, last ditch headers, near og, red card for a vdv after a vicious 50/50 which prob would have seen both off IRL. Ironically stoke won it with a really nice bit of football.

Played up to jones, back to goal. He held it up, back heel to soares who's first time cross was turned in by Walters.

Sort of gameplay you only get from pes. If this is a sign of things to come then I'm excited!
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Is this using the file I put up last night or still the earlier one with Barton's face missing?
 
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nadge said:
It's coming together nicely now chimps

Just tactics to be looked at and it should be sorted

Top work
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I might leave tactics to whoever downloads the file as people like different types of games, especially around the amount of pressure they think the opposition should put them under. I will have a look into it

Should have another file out today. I cannot remember having to take so long to get individual teams done. It might be that I was just going completely over the top this year in trying to get it right as I know what can be done from some amazing games.

There is times I would kill for an editor like you can use on the pc, but then you wouldn't end up with each team being closely looked at
 
LTFC said:
I've counted today I've played 15 Top Player matches. Of those 15 games, I've won 4, drawn 11, lost none. Of those 11 draws, 9, YES NINE, were as a result of an equaliser in the 80th minute or later. Might be my imagination but the game is absolutely programmed to do this. You can see it coming even when you defend perfectly well for the other 80 minutes without much bother.
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Sorry for the late response, but I was some days off this forum.
I also noticed what you say and I have a solution that brings back the amount of goals late in the match.
Your players are tired in this phase of the match, so I substitute three players on important positions at about the 75 th minute. Take note which players are most tired and take them off. Hopefully that helps :)
 
Chimps-with-quiffs said:
Is this using my game play changes? Because if it is, the file I am working on goes a long way towards making the bigger teams as playable as the small ones instead if them being over paced
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I'm using the orignal Goalgerd File which does have tweaks, but not your full version bud.

LT, if your conceding so many goals late on, you need to set-up an alternative strategy on-the-fly. Maybe a 4-5-1, All-Out Defence. The CPU will attack you if they need a goal, so think smart.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
I'm using the orignal Goalgerd File which does have tweaks, but not your full version bud.

LT, if your conceding so many goals late on, you need to set-up an alternative strategy on-the-fly. Maybe a 4-5-1, All-Out Defence. The CPU will attack you if they need a goal, so think smart.
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The original goalgerd file is either an upgrade of mine from last year or the file that was later attached from me for 1.01. I would recommend switching to one of the ones I have been posting on here over the last few days as they are written specifically for 1.02.

I will have another out later today with the premier league teams tweaked further
 
Two things Konami absolutely need to remove next year

1)Automated goalkicks. Unless you hammer whatever button you want to use (throw or drop the ball) a second after your goalkeeper picks it up then he will inevitably kick it long down field. It's been this way since PES 2010 right? It's absolutely awful/stupid/odd.I don't mind the goalkeeper kicking the ball automatically after about 10 seconds of real time but at current it just feels like you're fighting against your keeper.

2) Konami need to sort the foul system out. It just looks bad when in 90% of the freekicks you win it is because your player stumbles a bit. Half the time there's absolutely no way a referee would ever give a foul for the kind of stuff that you get it for in PES. What makes it worse is that you can essentially brush or be brushed on the edge of the box and win an incredibly dangerous freekick. It just wouldn't happen in real life. The player needs to be more dynamic and go down on contact if there's to be a freekick, not stumble a bit.
 
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Jamezinho said:
Make the dive button work properly.
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I would actually like that, if there was skill to it. Every year Konami go out of their way to make it less and less functionable and it was never particularly that easy to use in the first place.

The default dive command this year is 4 FREAKING BUTTONS (LB+RB+RS+LS). It's literally impossible to time it right, not that it'd work anyway. I'll give you a shiny dime if you don't happen to accidentally manual keeper select 50% of the time either (RS+LB) by attempting to dive. I conceded a goal yesterday by doing this. It was fine last year as LS+RS. There was no advantage to diving obviously but that's another story.
 
Yes, would be good if dive worked when you time it well. Like the times you get a little nudge forcing your player into a stumble. Time your dive right and you should get a freekick. Time it too early or late and it should be a yellow. Has anyone dived successfully? It's a pretty pointless inclusion right now other than for pissing about.
 
Northzzz said:
I would actually like that, if there was skill to it. Every year Konami go out of their way to make it less and less functionable and it was never particularly that easy to use in the first place.

The default dive command this year is 4 FREAKING BUTTONS (LB+RB+RS+LS). It's literally impossible to time it right, not that it'd work anyway. I'll give you a shiny dime if you don't happen to accidentally manual keeper select 50% of the time either (RS+LB) by attempting to dive. I conceded a goal yesterday by doing this. It was fine last year as LS+RS. There was no advantage to diving obviously but that's another story.
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Yeah, I'd rather it was moved to a two button combo or similar. It shouldn't be hard to pull off a dive, but timing should be everything and the risk/reward factor should discourage you from using it too often. At the moment it's a 'give me a yellow card' button.

But diving is a part of the modern game so I would like to see it more realistically replicated. As a football fan I want to see all these little controversies portrayed in PES. Things like wrong offside calls, handballs and goal line decisions. They all add to the interest of a match, but your typical competitive gamer will say they are random and unfair.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Pes is no way a simulation, to be a simulation you have to mimic real life, what part of PES 2012 mimics real life?

Running aimation? No
Shooting animation? No
Passing animation? No
The single crossing animation? No
Occasional bit of play? Yes
The look/Graphics? Maybe 50/50
The sound? God No

PES is no way a simulation, Same as Fifa that is not a simualtion either but it does do more things that are considered sim like. In the end both games are trying to be realistic but both fail badly.
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You are missing something very important. But before i have my two cents, i will tell immediately that FIFA is perhaps the better game of the two.
Despite that PES is much more a simulation than FIFA IMO. Somebody who has never played football can win matches in FIFA. That same person will have more difficulty winning PES games...PES uses the exact same logic as a real football match...the game has plenty of very obvious flaws and the AI is cheating, but you have to play it like real football.
That is the reason why PES definitely is a simulation.
I will give you another example about arcade and simulation. In the previous generation, one of the best games was SSX. What made it so goos? The fantastic animations...Is it a simulation? Not at all, it was pure arcade (and one of the best games ever...there is nothing wrong with being arcadey...).
 
gerd said:
You are missing something very important. But before i have my two cents, i will tell immediately that FIFA is perhaps the better game of the two.
Despite that PES is much more a simulation than FIFA IMO. Somebody who has never played football can win matches in FIFA. That same person will have more difficulty winning PES games...PES uses the exact same logic as a real football match...the game has plenty of very obvious flaws and the AI is cheating, but you have to play it like real football.
That is the reason why PES definitely is a simulation.
I will give you another example about arcade and simulation. In the previous generation, one of the best games was SSX. What made it so goos? The fantastic animations...Is it a simulation? Not at all, it was pure arcade (and one of the best games ever...there is nothing wrong with being arcadey...).
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Amen Gerd.

All the correct techniques and fundamentals need to be adhered to. Admittedly, lesser so with assisted controls, but it's still apparent.
 
Just had a 3 games v my (9 year old) son who prefers Fifa and is v good at it.
I won 2 and we drew the other.
During the game he was saying things like "the finesse shot isn't a good", "this games so slow" and "I haven't had a shot for what seems like ages".
To me they are all the things how a FIFA player thinks.
I explained that pes isn't perfect and needs some little tweaks but it's a thinking mans football game. You can can't press pass pass and shoot.

He got the hump and went back to FIFA after!!!
 
gerd said:
You are missing something very important. But before i have my two cents, i will tell immediately that FIFA is perhaps the better game of the two.
Despite that PES is much more a simulation than FIFA IMO. Somebody who has never played football can win matches in FIFA. That same person will have more difficulty winning PES games...PES uses the exact same logic as a real football match...the game has plenty of very obvious flaws and the AI is cheating, but you have to play it like real football.
That is the reason why PES definitely is a simulation.
I will give you another example about arcade and simulation. In the previous generation, one of the best games was SSX. What made it so goos? The fantastic animations...Is it a simulation? Not at all, it was pure arcade (and one of the best games ever...there is nothing wrong with being arcadey...).
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By your logic Gran Turismo cannot be called a sim because someone who has never raced a car can win a race in GT5


To be a simulation it has to mimic real life, PES does not mimic real life bar a few instances a match. As i say both games are very far away from being a true sim like GT5 or iRacing etc etc. Both games are firmly half arcade half sim. Anyone who thinks either game is a sim is kidding themselves on and firmly wearing fanboy goggles.
 
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Chimps......great work mate will play tonight

Can you get klash to do tactics or has he had enough

I may use his first tactics and just lesson the pressure and push midfielders up

Did you try with no long ball setting for top teams and midfield pushed on
 
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Flaw3d Genuis said:
By your logic Gran Turismo cannot be called a sim because someone who has never raced a car can win a race in GT5


To be a simulation it has to mimic real life, PES does not mimic real life bar a few instances a match. As i say both games are very far away from being a true sim like GT5 or iRacing etc etc. Both games are firmly half arcade half sim. Anyone who thinks either game is a sim is kidding themselves on and firmly wearing fanboy goggles.
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Just for the record, GT5 can't be considered a true sim either. It's very much "simcade", i.e. it has simulation elements but doesn't have the technical depth and hence difficulty of something like iRacing.

Games like GT5 and Forza 4 are accessible (some say dumbed down) simulations for the mass market. There's nothing wrong with that either. That's what PES has always been.
 
nadge said:
Chimps......great work mate will play tonight

Can you get klash to do tactics or has he had enough

I may use his first tactics and just lesson the pressure and push midfielders up

Did you try with no long ball setting for top teams and midfield pushed on
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I haven't experimented with formations yet other than pushing some teams midfielders further up.

The biggest thing in the game for me is that the players move right, feel right and give you a good game. Once that is done I will start and look at tactics or others can. I have tried in the past to get teams playing exactly as they do in real life with the same tactics, but for me is to get teams to give you a game and sometimes the two don't go perfectly together. Having said that I know klash knows more than anyone on tactics and i am sure they will add to the game
 
Anyway, I'm back in the game with PES2012. I picked it up for £25 off the shelf in Asda (the 360 version is that price too), which is a much better price for this game.

I deliberated long and hard over which console to buy for but went for the PS3 version in the end. The Dualshock feels more naturally suited to PES if you ask me.

Now I can switch between PES12 and Fifa12 as and when they each piss me off. Probably the best way to go this year.
 
Jamezinho said:
Anyway, I'm back in the game with PES2012. I picked it up for £25 off the shelf in Asda (the 360 version is that price too), which is a much better price for this game.

I deliberated long and hard over which console to buy for but went for the PS3 version in the end. The Dualshock feels more naturally suited to PES if you ask me.

Now I can switch between PES12 and Fifa12 as and when they each piss me off. Probably the best way to go this year.
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That's what i done last year, at £25 i might pick up the PS3 version this time round and put up with the poorer graphics but better option files.

Does the PS3 suffer terrible load times like the 360 one when an option file is installed?
 
I tell you what something else i'd like to see Konami work on. Player runs. They just aren't dynamic. I hardly ever see strikers look to make runs without having a through ball passed to them. Instead they are really really static and seem quite happy to not move until you play a through ball into them. It's really on rails though because as soon as you use the through ball button they're off like that, the game is programmed for them to only make runs if you use that button. It certainly doesn't feel free. Players like Hernandez just look silly too. They're hardly ever static waiting for a through ball in real life. He's always looking to make runs at any given time whether players play the ball to him or not (generally why he's synonymous with being offside).
 
Northzzz said:
I tell you what something else i'd like to see Konami work on. Player runs. They just aren't dynamic. I hardly ever see strikers look to make runs without having a through ball passed to them. Instead they are really really static and seem quite happy to not move until you play a through ball into them. It's really on rails though because as soon as you use the through ball button they're off like that, the game is programmed for them to only make runs if you use that button. It certainly doesn't feel free. Players like Hernandez just look silly too. They're hardly ever static waiting for a through ball in real life. He's always looking to make runs at any given time whether players play the ball to him or not (generally why he's synonymous with being offside).
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I totally see where you're coming from Northzzz, and believe me I'm a fan of advancement as much as the next man, but I wonder just how far we can go with these games?

Take PES2012, with Jenkeys, basically my current setup on the PC, for me, this is the pinnacle of what I perceive PES/football games to be like. I am realistic enough to know that whilst we/KONAMI pursue excellence, for this moment in time I would say that what I am playing at the moment I would be over the moon with in terms of football and how a game pans out.

But let's take your argument a step further; I do believe that having EVEN MORE active AI, whereby the players are actually like human beings is nigh on impossible. The implications for someone like Hernandez for example goes way beyond just how he moves, you're talking about the defensive response as well, as well as the multitude of variables that derive from giving him the ball from said run or not giving him the ball.

How do you program Hernandez exactly? Yes, more often than not he runs about here there and everywhere, but some games (his bad ones) he doesn't make as many runs, it's only natural as he's human.

I guess KONAMI would argue that's what they introduced off the ball movement for, although I myself don't use it.

The point is how do you exactly program something like trying to program a Hernandez, when Hernandez doesn't even know what he's going to do until he steps onto the pitch and bases his runs etc on dozens of sub-conscious variables, probably that are being processed in his head without him actually not having to think it.

Such as the defenders height (is it worth getting involved in a jumping contest with him), whether the defender is fast or slow, whether he is known for his positional sense, how far the midfielders are off the defenders, does the defender like following him if he drops into midfield, does the defender like getting dragged out wide, how happy are the full backs to help the CBs out, is Hernandez being man marked or zonal marked, are the defence playing high line or deep line, weather conditions etc etc lol, you could go on forever, but I bet a pro footballer, world class footballer, processes all these things without even knowing it and then just makes the runs, or not.

Look at someone like Gascoigne, thick as shit, but ask the players that played with him and against him about his footballing brain, and they'll tell you that someone like him just did, he had the extra time as half the game was already laid out in his head.

How exactly do you transfer that over to a gaming situation? The amount of programming and variables, for each individual player would be mind blowing.

For me, at the moment, the fact that Carroll is good in the air for flick ons, and the fact that Kuyt drops into midfield and hunts the ball down makes me happy.

What I would say, and I thought KONAMI would have cracked this by now is HOW THE TEAM plays?!? I thought by now, after studying for several years how Barce play that they could program this better. I thought that they could program the high up the pitch interchanges with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta better and GET them to keep the ball for 65% possession all the time.

Maybe this isn't as easy as I think any thoughts on Northzzz interesting points on individuality and my point on team likeness?
 
Jamezinho said:
Yeah, I'd rather it was moved to a two button combo or similar. It shouldn't be hard to pull off a dive, but timing should be everything and the risk/reward factor should discourage you from using it too often. At the moment it's a 'give me a yellow card' button.

But diving is a part of the modern game so I would like to see it more realistically replicated. As a football fan I want to see all these little controversies portrayed in PES. Things like wrong offside calls, handballs and goal line decisions. They all add to the interest of a match, but your typical competitive gamer will say they are random and unfair.
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To me the game would benefit from a 'go down easy' button. A command which helps your player go down after contact (and say if it was used with no contact it could be a dive and ergo a yellow like now). Like the silly amount of times that stumble animation happens. It's just awful how you're effectively allowed to be tackled from behind, be put off, stumble and most likely lose the ball. In real life players won't go into players even slightly from behind because any contact will generally result in a foul unless you're absolutely perfect in anticipating the movement of the ball and the players feet. I'm sure most people who play football understand that. It'd be much better to be able to go down when you're put off like that rather than have to put up with it. Plus it might help alleviate all those stupid amount of brush fouls i was talking about earlier. You know by saying you can put off balance but most of the time unless you go down you shouldn't win a foul.

This is Konami. I don't think they think logically like that.
 
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Well, I had a couple of fifteen minute games on top player and I can safely say that I won't be playing on that difficulty level again after conceding eleven goals in two games. Nearly all of the AI goals were ridiculously soft and scripted. In my first game the AI went 3-0 up, all headed goals from crosses.

Regarding version 1.02 - I genuinely don't see much difference between this and v1.01. Defenders still pack the penalty area and hound you down across the pitch, and the Ai doesn't feel as dynamic as demo 1.

I'm disappointed but I hope by switching down to professional I can enjoy this game more. Konami have really ruined the game this year.
 
The game has a bug that needs to be addressed. People are regarding it as scripting, but after scoring over 14 headers with Ribeiro, I can safely say it works both ways.

When a forward makes a run to receive a cross, the last defender just halts his run allowing the forward to get in position for an easy and unmarked header or finish. That happens ONLY when the forward is making a run. When he's already inside the 6 yard box everything goes accordingly, it seems.

One explanation to it is that the CPU is trying to play the forward offside, but really, on crosses?
 
leandropuc86 said:
The game has a bug that needs to be addressed. People are regarding it as scripting, but after scoring over 14 headers with Ribeiro, I can safely say it works both ways.

When a forward makes a run to receive a cross, the last defender just halts his run allowing the forward to get in position for an easy and unmarked header or finish. That happens ONLY when the forward is making a run. When he's already inside the 6 yard box everything goes accordingly, it seems.

One explanation to it is that the CPU is trying to play the forward offside, but really, on crosses?
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Yea I think everyone knows about this but Konami have ignored it for some reason. And of all the bugs that have been spotted, this surely is the most game-breaking and should have been addressed already.
 
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